Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Dimethylmercury cold storage?

Dimethylmercury cold storage?

novelist - 11-12-2018 at 23:08

Help, my friend brought dimethylmercury here from his school's lab! I had asked for some mercury but he didn't know what this was. I'm returning it after the holidays which means these ampules have to be stored at my place, for the next few weeks.

I've read that mercury solidifies below -32C, but couldn't find the freezing point for dimethlmercury. Also, like mercury could I place it in water or ice to lower chances of vapor or volatile heat? Or would there be a water/ice-crystal reaction that could cause a gaseous discharge that bursts the ice (allow leeching/seepage)?

I plan to discreetly return all but one of the samples, and would like to know if cold storage is the best means of keeping this chemical. Happy holidays and many thanks in advance!!!

j_sum1 - 11-12-2018 at 23:36

This is all kinds of scary.
Dimethyl mercury can kill you in minute exposures. It passes through the skin and is an extremely powerful neurotoxin. 0.1mL on the skin and you are dead.

Do not keep it. Do not handle it unnecessarily. Call someone qualified to come and collect it immediately. You should have an image in your mind of yellow hazmat suits and gas masks.

The fact that you are not differentiating between mercury metal and organic mercury means that you have no idea what you are handling. I would not want to be in the same room as that stuff.

Metacelsus - 11-12-2018 at 23:36

RUN AWAY. VERY FAST. CALL A HAZMAT TEAM. THIS IS NOT A JOKE.

(assuming you're not trolling, of course)

j_sum1 - 11-12-2018 at 23:41

Quote:

In 1996, Professor Karen Wetterhahn, an organometallic chemist (1) at Dartmouth College, was running an experiment that required the use of a chemical called dimethylmercury, a colorless, volatile, sweet-smelling liquid(2). She was using all proper safety precautions — protective clothing, gloves, and most important, a negative pressure fume hood(3). During the transfer, Wetterhahn spilled one or two drops of the liquid on the back of one of her latex gloves(4). After five months, she began to display symptoms of severe neurological impairment, and was hospitalized. Three weeks later she slipped into a coma. Five months later she was dead from mercury poisoning. There was nothing that could be done to save her life, including chelation therapy(5).

from https://www.acsh.org/news/2016/06/06/two-drops-of-death-dime...

woelen - 12-12-2018 at 00:15

Someone is trolling here. Do you really believe that a school has dimethylmercury in stock? And on top of that, do you believe that it is stored in such a way that it can be taken away by some pupil without any notice?

If this is not trolling, then there is a SERIOUS issue! Contact a hazmat team or whatever organisation is responsible for such a thing in your area. Do not handle it yourself, a small accident will lead to death, after a period of extreme illness.

DavidJR - 12-12-2018 at 03:36

Quote: Originally posted by woelen

Someone is trolling here. Do you really believe that a school has dimethylmercury in stock? And on top of that, do you believe that it is stored in such a way that it can be taken away by some pupil without any notice?

If this is not trolling, then there is a SERIOUS issue! Contact a hazmat team or whatever organisation is responsible for such a thing in your area. Do not handle it yourself, a small accident will lead to death, after a period of extreme illness.

Perhaps by 'school' they mean a university.

j_sum1 - 12-12-2018 at 03:42

Quote: Originally posted by woelen

Someone is trolling here.

That thought occurred to me too. I doubt the story is true in its entirety: I am not going to expect unembellished truth from someone pilfering stuff.

But if there is any truth whatsoever to the organic mercury compounds... that is serious stuff.
Put it down carefully. Evacuate. Call the Hazmat guys.

wg48 - 12-12-2018 at 04:22

Hopefully any organisation in the developed world will have dimethyl mercury in secure storage and any missing quantities investigated.

I can imagine the response of parents and authorities in the US and UK to discover that a child’s school has any quantity of methyl mercury even if its secure in a locked safe.

Yes I would say it almost certainly a trolling post.

In the UK several years ago now they had what I will call the mercury squad visiting each university department to secure and hermeticaly seal any mercury and preferably remove it.

fusso - 12-12-2018 at 08:00

Quote: Originally posted by wg48

In the UK several years ago now they had what I will call the mercury squad visiting each university department to secure and hermeticaly seal any mercury and preferably remove it.

But those are UNIVERSITIES!!! So they think they know more than the universities themselves?! I don't think they need to teach a dog to bark...

Mr. Rogers - 12-12-2018 at 10:16

I'm surprised that wasn't under lock and key with strict accounting procedures in place.

Someone is going to jail.

[Edited on 12-12-2018 by Mr. Rogers]

Tsjerk - 12-12-2018 at 11:57

This has to be bullshit as the melting point is the first hit on Wikipedia. Why would anyone wants to own mercury... have a friend who can get it... but won't be able to find the melting point... Which doesn't matter when it is in ampules.

XeonTheMGPony - 12-12-2018 at 16:02

I have seen shit like this happen irl, same way I have seen friends in the military walk out with stuff that'd make your underwear crawl up you.

So this is very plausible, and if real as others have said GET AWAY FROM IT, do not touch it, do not handle it, call the uni and make up some thing but let professionals handle it from here on out as this stuff is lethal in no uncertain terms

novelist - 12-12-2018 at 17:12

Thanks for the non-responses to my inquiry.

I know the difference between dimethylmercury and mercury. I was simply asking if I could store it in my freezer for safe(r) keeping. Plus I asked for the freezing point, where it would become less liquid/vaporous - not the "boiling point".

I'm in a rural area and nobody's coming to pick this up anytime soon. Flying out tomorrow, and it's otherwise in my cupboard.

j_sum1 - 12-12-2018 at 17:34

Quote: Originally posted by novelist

Thanks for the non-responses to my inquiry.

I know the difference between dimethylmercury and mercury. I was simply asking if I could store it in my freezer for safe(r) keeping. Plus I asked for the freezing point, where it would become less liquid/vaporous - not the "boiling point".

I'm in a rural area and nobody's coming to pick this up anytime soon. Flying out tomorrow, and it's otherwise in my cupboard.

With respect, you are an idiot.
This is not something to be trifled with.
You clearly do not comprehend just how deadly this stuff is. And, let's face it, you cannot have a legitimate need for it.

Imagine a low probablity scenario where this stuff is somehow released in your absence -- a natural disaster or something. And your failure to apply some basic sense or listen to advice kills a bunch of people.

Get on the phone NOW and work out a better solution to the situation.

Popping it in the freezer is not a solution. A cracked ampoule seal from thermal shock or from something in the freezer shifting and your freezer and its contents are a death trap. No one will know the hazard until far too late -- including you. This is the dumbest thing possible

mayko - 12-12-2018 at 17:50

The melting point of dimethylmercury, per Wikipedia, is -43 C. Lower temperature means lower vapor pressure, but if you're asking sciencemadness how to store dimethylmercury, you're incapable of storing it safely at any temperature.

BromicAcid - 12-12-2018 at 18:37

The year was 2006, my university still kept a bottle of dimethyl mercury. The alternating stories were:

-Disposal is just too damn expensive.
-The disposal company won't take it.
-Someone in the NMR lab said they need it.
-Dimethyl mercury, why should I care?

Vomaturge - 12-12-2018 at 18:53

I would rather you keep that ampoule in an empty cupboard than in your food freezer. Definitely don't freeze it into ice! The ice could crack the glass and you wouldn't know until it melted. Instead, keep it somewhere it won't get broken, until you can return it. Remember, storing it at home is unsafe, it's just a temporary solution. Preferably you would have someone from the university pick it up now, even if you miss the flight. It's really important that this doesn't get broken.

That's assuming it's in a completely sealed ampoule. If it is in a broken ampoule, or a bottle with a removable top, an open bottle, or anything that can be opened to the air, YOU NEED TO GET AWAY FROM IT NOW. Call emergency services and explain what it is, or better yet, call the university, so they can direct a safe cleanup. Don't even touch the bottle, and certainly don't freeze it.

Now for what I think is most worrying:

Quote: Originally posted by novelist

I plan to discreetly return all but one of the samples...

So you plan on keeping some? You don't really have use for it. You'd probably poison yourself accidentally if you tried using it for an experiment, at least if you're anything like me. Just storing an ampoule is pointless, and dangerous as I said before. Besides, if you plan on returning the other ampoules to the university, won't that prompt them to check the inventory and find that one is still missing?

Call the university. Even if you get in trouble with the law, that's better than getting killed.

Really hope this is a troll.

[Edited on 13-12-2018 by Vomaturge]

Harper - 13-12-2018 at 06:20

i have 60 mesh PuO2. wanna trade bro??

MrHomeScientist - 13-12-2018 at 07:11

This is clearly a kid that googled "most dangerous chemical" and is just trying to troll.

nora_summers - 13-12-2018 at 09:55

Can we move this to detritus already?

Obvious troll is obvious.

Tsjerk - 13-12-2018 at 10:17

Quote: Originally posted by Harper

i have 60 mesh PuO2. wanna trade bro??

²³⁹PuO₂ that is I hope?

DoctorOfPhilosophy - 13-12-2018 at 12:43

Before this gets thrown in detritus, maybe we can explore the possibility of reacting the PuO2 with the Hg(CH3)2 to make a novel compound?

morganbw - 13-12-2018 at 13:37

Maybe a little sic? But if this is a true post the poster may already be dead albeit (within a year) give or take and clueless.

I do not think that a normal school lab (including grad school) would have this. I suspect it would only be in a research lab doing work with metal poisonings or possibly as a standard (CDC level) to test against such.

I really hope the OP is trolling, if not trolling then lucky, or death may be coming.

TheMrbunGee - 13-12-2018 at 13:38

Quote: Originally posted by DoctorOfPhilosophy

Before this gets thrown in detritus, maybe we can explore the possibility of reacting the PuO2 with the Hg(CH3)2 to make a novel compound?

Just mix them and put in automatic sprayer in bedroom.. Sweet smelling dreams..

Tsjerk - 13-12-2018 at 13:46

Quote: Originally posted by TheMrbunGee

Quote: Originally posted by DoctorOfPhilosophy

Before this gets thrown in detritus, maybe we can explore the possibility of reacting the PuO2 with the Hg(CH3)2 to make a novel compound?

Just mix them and put in automatic sprayer in bedroom.. Sweet smelling dreams..

Plutonium 239 unfortunately only gives of alpha radiation without any neutrons, which isn't really transmutagenic.

DoctorOfPhilosophy - 13-12-2018 at 13:47

Quote: Originally posted by morganbw

I do not think that a normal school lab (including grad school) would have this. I suspect it would only be in a research lab doing work with metal poisonings or possibly as a standard (CDC level) to test against such.

Well disturbingly anyone with access to ebay could have the topic compound in a few short days.

Dan Vizine - 13-12-2018 at 14:23

The story lost ALL credibility the moment he said "I had asked for some mercury but he didn't know what this was"....riiight.

Mr. Rogers - 13-12-2018 at 22:10

It's sketchy to say the least.

Someone who has unsupervised access to a (presumably) university chemical store would be someone with knowledge of the appearance of elemental mercury.

j_sum1 - 13-12-2018 at 22:45

Quote: Originally posted by Mr. Rogers

It's sketchy to say the least.

Someone who has unsupervised access to a (presumably) university chemical store would be someone with knowledge of the appearance of elemental mercury.

Oh. No doubt it is sketchy. I am not buying the story in its entirity for even a moment. But if the bit related to organomercury is true, then it is a serious situation that can only end badly. If he keeps an ampoule -- it may be years down the track, but eventually someone will have to do something with it. It may or may not still have a legible label and even if it does, it may or may not be recognised by whoever discovers it. It either gets spilled with probable dire consequences or else it is whatever future version of the hazmat squad gets called in. There aren't any real ways this can end prettily.

Trolling is indeed a posibility and maybe even likely. But I have seen enough dumb stuff that I would not be absolutely certain that it is trolling.

Anyway, by now, if the story is in any true, the OP is off on holiday with a little vial of deadly toxin sitting next to the peanut butter. He is not listening. There is a chance we will find out more details in the news. Eventually.

Mr. Rogers - 13-12-2018 at 23:10

Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1

Quote: Originally posted by Mr. Rogers

It's sketchy to say the least.

Someone who has unsupervised access to a (presumably) university chemical store would be someone with knowledge of the appearance of elemental mercury.

I agree. If this is real, the only sane thing to do is call the fire department and explain the whole situation honestly.

fusso - 14-12-2018 at 04:46

Is there anyways to destroy Me2Hg?

TheMrbunGee - 14-12-2018 at 07:00

Quote: Originally posted by fusso

Is there anyways to destroy Me2Hg?

Wiki:
The compound reacts with mercuric chloride to give the mixed chloro-methyl compound:

(CH3)2Hg + HgCl2 → 2 CH3HgCl
Whereas dimethylmercury is a volatile liquid, CH3HgCl is a crystalline solid.

this way it would be "safer", but doing anything with it would not be safe..

not sure, maybe replacement reaction could be done, with some more active metal, like zinc.

Morgan - 14-12-2018 at 10:41

Tidbits
42.2.1 Organic Mercury Poisoning
The earliest known deaths attributed to exposure to organic mercury, involving dimethyl mercury, occurred at St. Bartholomew’s Hospital in Smithﬁeld, London in the course of research on the valency of metals and metallic compounds. Details of the research that led to the lethal exposures were reported by Frankland and Duppa(1863); yet, inexplicably, their publication made no mention of the poisoning and deaths of two technicians involved in the research. The two technicians were apparently directly exposed to dimethyl Hg for periods of 3 months and 2 weeks, respectively. According to hospital reports, both men exhibited symptoms associated with ataxia and died 2 weeks and 12 months, respectively, after the onset of symptoms. Clinical details were reported in two internal hospital reports (Edwards1865, 1866), which include the statement, “That the symptoms were due to the inhalation of [mercuric methide] is rendered almost certain.” However, circulation of these reports was limited; Hunter et al. (1940) commented that “The story of these deaths has been handed down verbally from one generation of chemists to another."
http://www.academia.edu/29085604/Mercury_in_Fish_History_Sou...

fusso - 14-12-2018 at 17:06

Seriously, why is this troll thread still here? :mad:

[Edited on 181215 by fusso]

j_sum1 - 14-12-2018 at 18:17

Quote: Originally posted by fusso

Seriously, why is this troll thread still here? :mad:

[Edited on 181215 by fusso]

1. We don't know for sure that it is a troll. Definitely stupid. Definitely baiting. But we have no idea how much if any of the story is true. Members are responding well so this is ok.
2. We don't often get to discuss such hazardpus compounds. It is good to be aware of the properties of these kinds of things even if we are unlikely to encounter them. The same as we might discuss ClF3, Pu or some ultra high energy explosives. I don't know how organic mercury might be neutralised. I could hazard a guess, but it would indeed be a hazard if posted. OTOH, it is likely someone knows and can share. I would be knowledgeable for it.

The thread can stay. At least for now.
Maybe the OP will even grow a brain cell while on holiday and revisit.

AJKOER - 14-12-2018 at 18:40

I believe the sincerity of the author of this thread. It has the incoherent trait of a true story, and ends no less with "Happy holidays and many thanks in advance!!".

In context, I would hazard a guess that at least nine out of the ten people I know have no clue of what Methyl Mercury is! A symptom of a country of awash in scientific ignorance!! So why is it surprising that there's someone totally clueless with access to chemical supplies at a university we're the only supplies they probably lock up are at the sports department, a big revenue generator for the school?

I also suspect that Methyl Mercury is one of those chemicals that is not easy to breakdown without creating more of a highly toxic problem, so you cannot cheaply get rid of it, and so it sits on a shelf where it really does not belong, allowing someone to remove it and ask a friend to help deal with it.

Vomaturge - 14-12-2018 at 19:18

Well, I'd assume molecules of dimethyl mercury can be easily made into a variety of less dangerous (albeit not harmless) compounds. Even the wiki page implies that in numerous places. I'd suspect the real issue is making sure there is no unreacted residue left. You can run a reaction which neutralizes most of a sample, but maybe 1% of it might not mix with the neutralizing reagent, or it might all be mixed evenly, but a tiny bit might not get enough activation energy. Now, the waste products will have enough dimethyl mercury left over to be deadly.

That's why I'd rather it stay in its ampoule (assuming the story is true) than be opened for some wreckless procedure that will leave lethal traces all over the place.

I definitely see your point, on why even big research facilities would rather store it than try and neutralize it.

DoctorOfPhilosophy - 14-12-2018 at 21:12

Quote: Originally posted by AJKOER

I also suspect that Methyl Mercury is one of those chemicals that is not easy to breakdown without creating more of a highly toxic problem, so you cannot cheaply get rid of it, and so it sits on a shelf where it really does not belong, allowing someone to remove it and ask a friend to help deal with it.

I don't think it is that difficult to dispose of dimethylmercury through a chemical disposal company. They're just going to run it through an incinerator with other inflammable wastes. In fact, that's what the datasheet from Sigma seems to suggest too:

Quote:

Burn in a chemical incinerator equipped with an afterburner and scrubber but exert extra care in igniting as this material is highly flammable. Offer surplus and non-recyclable solutions to a licensed disposal company. Contact a licensed professional waste disposal service to dispose of this material.

If by some chance, I had a sealed ampule of this substance at home that did not pose an imminent threat of leaking or breaking, I would call a licensed disposal company and that would be the end of it.

And yes, they pick up from individuals (albeit somewhat reluctantly).

Tsjerk - 15-12-2018 at 04:06

Quote: Originally posted by DoctorOfPhilosophy

Quote:

as this material is highly flammable. Offer surplus and non-recyclable solutions to a licensed disposal company. Contact a licensed professional waste disposal service to dispose of this material.

Oh lovely, the stuff is also flammable, imaging having a dimethyl mercury sample burning somewhere, Ok in an incinerator, not so ok in a lab.

Morgan - 15-12-2018 at 05:32

Tests on wildlife ...
"During the same period, top predators of the ﬁsh-based food chain in the Florida Everglades also had high tissue Hg levels. Alligators (Alligator mississippiensis) collected on a transect through the Florida Everglades in 1999 were reported by Rumbold et al. (2002) with Hg T mean concentrations (n¼ 28) in liver and tail muscle of 10.4 and 1.2 ppm w/w, respectively. A single Florida panther (Pumaconcolor cori), a critically endangered species in Florida, was found dead in the southern Everglades region with the highest Hg concentration ever reported of 110 ppm w/w in the liver; Hg toxicosis was strongly implicated in its death (Roelkeet al. 1991). Other free-ranging panthers in the same region had mean hair, liver,and muscle concentrations of 56.4, 40.6 and 4.4 ppm Hg T w/w, respectively. Roelkeet al. concluded that Hg T
in panther hair greater than 57.3 ppm fresh weight would indicate toxicosis, and identiﬁed an “at risk” threshold value for Hg T in panther hair as greater than 12.57 ppm. All of these panthers were known to be feeding on Hg-contaminated raccoons (Procyon lotor). Raccoons are opportunistic omnivores, but eat largely insects and crustaceans and some ﬁsh outside berry season, which peaks in January in the Everglades region. As is the case in ﬁsh, Hg in insects is essentially all MeHg (Mason et al. 2000). Roelke et al. (1991) reported a meanvalue of 1.8  1.24 ppm Hg in raccoon muscle tissue in the central Everglade, ..."
http://www.academia.edu/29085604/Mercury_in_Fish_History_Sou...

AJKOER - 15-12-2018 at 12:11

Actually, if you think placing it in an incinerator is a good solution, first radioactively tag the Methyl Mercury. Then, after it is placed into the atmosphere, falls largely into the oceans, finds it way into the food chain, and your fish is caught, which you bring home and test, and than perhaps one day you can shout, 'I found you again!'

Just a brilliant idea

, and please don't eat the fish!

By the way, most of the Hg placed into the oceans is the result of burning coal.

[Edited on 15-12-2018 by AJKOER]

nora_summers - 15-12-2018 at 16:14

Fine. the thread is real.

Please upload a photo of the dimethyl mercury ampule so we can see what condition its in and let you know if there is any immediate danger of leakage/breaking.

Schleimsäure - 16-12-2018 at 18:43

Calm down. It will not cunningly creep out of an ampule and try to kill you. Just don't break the ampules and everything will be fine.

You don't have to call a hazmat team, as some suggested here. Ridiculous. Be very careful with it, I would not want to work with it either. Give it back to the university or store it safely. If it is ampuled I don't think it is necessary to store it in the cold. Put a big fat poison skull on the ampules.

Ubya - 17-12-2018 at 00:26

Quote: Originally posted by AJKOER

Actually, if you think placing it in an incinerator is a good solution, first radioactively tag the Methyl Mercury. Then, after it is placed into the atmosphere, falls largely into the oceans, finds it way into the food chain, and your fish is caught, which you bring home and test, and than perhaps one day you can shout, 'I found you again!'

Just a brilliant idea

, and please don't eat the fish!

By the way, most of the Hg placed into the oceans is the result of burning coal.

[Edited on 15-12-2018 by AJKOER]

who doesn't radio tag dimethyl mercury in his free time? we all do it right?

MrHomeScientist - 17-12-2018 at 08:01

Quote: Originally posted by AJKOER

In context, I would hazard a guess that at least nine out of the ten people I know have no clue of what Methyl Mercury is!

You only know ten people? I guess that doesn't really surprise me.

symboom - 17-12-2018 at 11:18

To bad there is no way to convert it to Mercury metal even that process would be dangerous .

DraconicAcid - 17-12-2018 at 11:45

Quote: Originally posted by Ubya

who doesn't radio tag dimethyl mercury in his free time? we all do it right?

Radiotagging mercury isn't something one does with a prepared sample, but he does have a point- burning it puts that mercury in the atmosphere. Nasty, nasty.

fusso - 17-12-2018 at 12:51

Quote: Originally posted by AJKOER

By the way, most of the Hg placed into the oceans is the result of burning coal.

[Edited on 15-12-2018 by AJKOER]

How Hg manages to contaminate the coals?

DavidJR - 17-12-2018 at 14:16

Quote: Originally posted by fusso

Quote: Originally posted by AJKOER

By the way, most of the Hg placed into the oceans is the result of burning coal.

[Edited on 15-12-2018 by AJKOER]

How Hg manages to contaminate the coals?

It's naturally present in coal, along with lots of other nasties.

Morgan - 17-12-2018 at 16:30

Quote: Originally posted by DavidJR

Quote: Originally posted by fusso

Quote: Originally posted by AJKOER

By the way, most of the Hg placed into the oceans is the result of burning coal.

[Edited on 15-12-2018 by AJKOER]

How Hg manages to contaminate the coals?

It's naturally present in coal, along with lots of other nasties.

I recall reading the bay where I live in Florida, the level of mercury goes up in the summer due to more rainfall.

AJKOER - 21-12-2018 at 12:46

Quote: Originally posted by MrHomeScientist

Quote: Originally posted by AJKOER

In context, I would hazard a guess that at least nine out of the ten people I know have no clue of what Methyl Mercury is!

You only know ten people? I guess that doesn't really surprise me.

But MrHomeScientist, I was counting on you as the one in ten whose actually knows what Methyl Mercury is!

Do you actually believe if I expand the sample without you, I would have more favorable statistics?
-----------------------------------------

Sorry Ubya for not responding quickly, I was busy radio tagging.