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Pretty Pictures (1)

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blogfast25 - 11-10-2011 at 08:30



Some 20 g of copper (II) nitrate hydrate, on a plastic tea strainer. I believe it’s the hexahydrate but have yet to determine its MP. It was obtained by dissolving 10 g conductor copper in 70 % nitric acid, then reducing the obtained solution by about a third, cooling, adding seed crystals, then icing. Most of the solution then crystallised out. The blue is more intense to the naked eye than the photo promises.

Edit: It's been verified to be the hexahydrate: it melts way below 50 C and resolidifies on cooling.

[Edited on 11-10-2011 by blogfast25]

Wizzard - 11-10-2011 at 12:48

@blogfast- I agree, copper nitrate is much prettier than copper sulfate :D

blogfast25 - 12-10-2011 at 03:33

Yeah, it's almost as deep blue as a copper (II) diammonia complex.

macro photography

White Yeti - 12-10-2011 at 12:28

@blogfast25

Does your camera have macro capability? I find it makes a huge difference when taking pictures of chemicals. The symbol usually looks like a flower:

macro_symbol_packshot.gif - 7kB

I'm asking because it looks like the picture is out of focus and it doesn't need to be.

This is not meant to be criticism, just constructive feedback:)

Endimion17 - 12-10-2011 at 13:39

Hydrated copper(II) nitrate has one of the most beautiful blue crystals seen in labs. It's close to the beauty of tetraamminecopper(II) sulphate or mercury tetrathiocyanatocobaltate(II).

The only problem is that it's very hygroscopic. Later this year I've made some and I've stored them wet in the bottle, but added an ampoule of sodium hydroxide and quartz sand. Over the couple of months, that little sucker managed to suck in both the water and nitric acid residues, and even started eflorescenting the nitrate salt, so I've removed it.
Sometimes when I look at them, I just want to eat them because they look so nice. :)

Some people dry their crystals in desiccators, but I prefer finishing the job in the bottle. I just take/make an ampoule, put the mixture inside, and stuff some cotton or rough cork (if possible). If the bottle is not tilted, the contents will be super dry in a matter of days. It's a neat way to reduce the consumption of desiccant because the space available for vapors is very small, and if there are any other volatiles, they contaminate the ampoule only.
It's neat for weighing, too.

MrHomeScientist - 13-10-2011 at 09:17

@blogfast25:

Beautiful crystals! I've got a solution of copper nitrate that was waste from the silver tree demo, and I've been evaporating it down but it just refuses to crystallize. I don't have any seed crystals to initiate it either, any suggestions? I was going to try putting it in a dessicator bag and see if that helps.

Bot0nist - 13-10-2011 at 09:35

Any idea of the amount of salts in the solution. You have to boil it down until it is super saturated, then cool it slowly. A preheated thermos works good for this. With copper sulfate I sometimes crash it out by adding cold ethanol, filter, and then redissolve in a small amount of boiling distilled H<sub>2</sub>O before recrystallizing. Precipitating with ethanol won't work for copper nitrate though, as it is soluble in alcohol.

[Edited on 13-10-2011 by Bot0nist]

Endimion17 - 13-10-2011 at 10:59

Copper nitrate is notorious for its will to stay in a solution. :)

Large, well developed crystals are very hard to obtain. Desiccation would work, but it would require large amounts of desiccant with power of desiccation greater than copper nitrate, and that really narrows it down because Cu-nitrate is one hell of a desiccator itself.
I've just put the desktop lamp under the evaporating dish and cover it with a bent piece of filter paper. Ventilation is neccessary because of excess nitric acid.
I've forgot about it and later found it dehydrated. That happened 3-4 times in a row (I know, I'm lazy), but I've managed to get them, eventually. They're tiny and clumped together.

You just need to remove as much water as you can, and then the whole solution turns solid in a few seconds, as it cools down. Basically, something similar to sodium acetate.
Later, drying with NaOH in a sealed space is neccessary because there's always some water that didn't end up in the crystal lattice.

[Edited on 13-10-2011 by Endimion17]

Wizzard - 13-10-2011 at 11:18

I had soem very lovely copper nitrate crystals from a solution, dried over a month by windowsill :) Pics coming soon, I guess.

blogfast25 - 13-10-2011 at 12:22

@White Yeti: thanks, I’m gonna try that!

@MrHomeScientist: try seed crystals and what Endimion said. Make seed crystals by dipping a glass rod in your solution, then gently evaporating the water well above a Bunsen or other flame, making sure not to overheat. Sprinkle these into your solution. Bear in mind the fantastic solubility of Cu(NO3)2: at 0 C it’s about 80 g/100 g of water, off the top of my head!

@Bot0nist: look up solubilities in Wikipedia solubility table.

@Endimion: right on the money.

Endimion17 - 13-10-2011 at 16:03

Hey, when we're already talking about beautiful salts, is there a thread at SM that deals with preparations of complex salts like the ones I've mentioned earlier, tetraamminecopper(II) sulphate and mercury tetrathiocyanatocobaltate(II)?
Dithiocyanatobis(triphenylphosphine)nickel(II), hexaamminenickel(II) chloride, bisdimethylglioximatonickel(II) and potassium trisoxalatochromate(III) come to mind, too.

Lots of complex salts are simply striking, with nice crystal shapes and vivid colors, and are relatively easy to prepare. Some exibit interesting magnetic properties.
What I'm searching for is a thread where people were collecting the procedures.

blogfast25 - 14-10-2011 at 05:17

@Endi:

I don't recall it but try the search facility?

Endimion17 - 14-10-2011 at 05:28

I've tried, but it's not very helpful. Perhaps I'll open a new thread.

Neil - 14-10-2011 at 05:40

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=16646#...

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=16220#...

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=15513#...

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=11218#...

;)

MrHomeScientist - 17-10-2011 at 06:58

Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25  
@MrHomeScientist: try seed crystals and what Endimion said. Make seed crystals by dipping a glass rod in your solution, then gently evaporating the water well above a Bunsen or other flame, making sure not to overheat. Sprinkle these into your solution. Bear in mind the fantastic solubility of Cu(NO3)2: at 0 C it’s about 80 g/100 g of water, off the top of my head!


Great idea, I'll give that a try. My initial solution of ~80mL was pretty dilute, since it was just leftovers from the silver tree demo, and has evaporated down to just a few mL of dark blue liquid. I'll post here if the seed crystal method does the trick.

Endimion17 - 17-10-2011 at 08:00

You can also try an old lab trick - saturate the solution by evaporating over a heating pad, cool it down and then gently scratch the inside of the vessel with a glass rod. That provokes a localized stress which helps creating crystals even without seeding.

Wizzard - 17-10-2011 at 11:47

I find a small sliver of wood put in and held in the meniscus works quite well. Between capillary action, the pressure difference localized to the small point in the wood, and evaporative action driving more capillary action... Can't go wrong!

White Yeti - 8-11-2011 at 07:02

This is a sodium bicarbonate solution I left on a shelf for too long. Nothing special, but pretty nonetheless.

IMG_0273.jpg - 107kB

I destroyed the crystals in attempt to improve the lighting and to insert a black background, sadly.

MrTechGuy1995 - 10-11-2011 at 18:38

This is what I essentually used for my NOx Generator.





9Kv 30mA


blogfast25 - 24-11-2011 at 07:20

Large needles of oxalic acid (and that’s only the first crystallisation!) with a weak solution of trioxaloferrate (III) (FeOx<sub>3</sub><sup>3-</sup>;) as supernatant liquid. At low concentrations the trioxaloferrate complex is slightly fluorescent:



Nick F - 24-11-2011 at 13:07

Hello everyone, this is uranyl nitrate hexahydrate (fused and cast into the vial so that there's no dust), fluorescing under long-wave UV.
It is a very bad photo because I don't know how to use my camera in low-light conditions, but I think the blur on the image emphasises the glow and actually gives quite a nice effect :).

Edit: I'm totally failing at uploading an image. Hang on a minute, I'll remember how to do it soon...

[Edited on 24-11-2011 by Nick F]

[Edited on 24-11-2011 by Nick F]

UNH2O.jpg - 44kB

blogfast25 - 24-11-2011 at 14:37

Quote: Originally posted by Nick F  
Hello everyone, this is uranyl nitrate hexahydrate (fused and cast into the vial so that there's no dust), fluorescing under long-wave UV.
It is a very bad photo because I don't know how to use my camera in low-light conditions, but I think the blur on the image emphasises the glow and actually gives quite a nice effect :).

Edit: I'm totally failing at uploading an image. Hang on a minute, I'll remember how to do it soon...

[Edited on 24-11-2011 by Nick F]

[Edited on 24-11-2011 by Nick F]


How much is there?

Bezaleel - 24-11-2011 at 17:28

Nick, what source of UV/wavelength did you use?

White Yeti - 25-11-2011 at 06:57

Quote: Originally posted by Nick F  
[...]
It is a very bad photo because I don't know how to use my camera in low-light conditions, but I think the blur on the image emphasises the glow and actually gives quite a nice effect :).
[...]


What I do in low light conditions is I set my camera down on a pile of books, (or on a tripod) and use the timer option to take a picture.

Here's why. In low light conditions, the camera needs to receive approximately the same amount of light as if it were taking a picture in daylight. The result is a longer exposure length. So if you do so much as twitch during that interval, the picture is ruined.

Setting the camera down on a pile of books and using the timer ensures that the camera won't move when you're taking the picture.

But whatever you do, don't use flash:)

Nick F - 25-11-2011 at 11:03

blogfast25, I have about 29g, the vial is 6.5cm tall.

Bezaleel, the UV source is a common 4W fluorescent tube type, the sort that is used to detect fake money. It looks like this:



I believe they peak at somewhere around 360nm. It is standing up just to the right of the image, its reflection can be seen near the top right of the vial.

White Yeti, I don't even know if my camera has a timer option, it is quite old and was cheap when I bought it!

[Edited on 25-11-2011 by Nick F]

theflickkk - 29-11-2011 at 06:42


Hmm Nick F, you could try changing the ISO to a higher value (may result in noise though)
Alternatively, the shutter speed can be changed by varying f-stop.
A slower shutter speed would allow more light to enter, making the picture brighter.

The sample you've got there looks really nice! Is the glow really so bright or is it just the camera o:

UnintentionalChaos - 29-11-2011 at 08:15



A layer of 6-methylquinoline under water resulting from steam distillation.

Magpie - 29-11-2011 at 09:49

Nice piece of art, UC.

mr.crow - 29-11-2011 at 09:59

Nice! I also love your new videos, UC

turd - 29-11-2011 at 15:04

Small crystals of rac. N,alpha-dimethyl-beta-phenethylammonium chloride.
(Ok, this should go to the ugly pictures thread, but there is none. :P)

x1.png - 790kB x2.png - 817kB

Bezaleel - 13-12-2011 at 19:51

Thanks to Nick F for the suggested type of UV lamp (found one for under $5 on e-bay). Comparison of uranyl nitrate, erbium acetate, and neodymium carbonate under tungsten incandescent light and UV light.


Images of lead iodide. I dissolved 0.35 grams in 100ml of water, and boiled for about 10 minutes. The substance dissolved slowly, the solution gradually becoming clear.
Cooling down, thin colourless platelets immediately formed on the liquid surface. After cooling down to RT, very many sparkling and deeply yellow platelets had formed.

Adas - 14-12-2011 at 10:02

I enjoy the PbI2 golden rain, good job :D

UnintentionalChaos - 24-12-2011 at 00:05



Shattered glassy mass of 5-carboxypentyltriphenylphosphonium bromide (I think I named that correctly...) prepared from 6-bromohexanoic acid and triphenylphosphine

The molten material is viscous and can be drawn into threads and so forth, like a proper silica glass, but at a vastly lower temperature.

The crystalline salt was prepared by precipitating the product from chloroform with ethyl acetate.

plante1999 - 24-12-2011 at 10:30

Wow! This is a realy nice picture! Are you doing a video to show the synthesis on Youtube?

[Edited on 24-12-2011 by plante1999]

UnintentionalChaos - 24-12-2011 at 14:03

Quote: Originally posted by plante1999  
Wow! This is a realy nice picture! Are you doing a video to show the synthesis on Youtube?

[Edited on 24-12-2011 by plante1999]


No.

1) It's very simple to prepare and can be summarized in the video where I use it for a wittig.
2) I was filming anyway, but I ran into a few snags along the way. And that makes for poor video.

mr.crow - 24-12-2011 at 15:47

Wow!!!

At least you can use some of the footage for the next video as a summary. looking forward to it

Synthetic capsaicin, sounds spicy

White Yeti - 24-12-2011 at 19:22

I was attempting to "blue" some steel over the flame of my modified alcohol burner. I met limited success, as small areas of the piece of metal in question turned to a corrosion resistant iridescent blue. My camera does not pick up the vivid colours of the blued metal, so I have no pictures to display. But as I was washing the piece of metal clean, I found that the soot deposited on the piece of metal made the steel hydrophobic. It's nothing special at all, as the layer of soot wears off very rapidly and does not stand up against abrasion even of the gentlest kind. But it sure does make a nice picture I thought I might share with the community. Without further ado, here is my failure/success, several drops of water on the soot covered bottom of a tin can, the cheapest way you can demonstrate the phenomenon of hydrophobicity.

IMG_0294.jpg - 101kB

UnintentionalChaos - 24-12-2011 at 19:26

Quote: Originally posted by mr.crow  
Wow!!!

At least you can use some of the footage for the next video as a summary. looking forward to it

Synthetic capsaicin, sounds spicy


I don't have enough footage to make it worthwhile, except maybe some shots of the same stuff I posted above. Synthesis pretty much consists of "dump two reactants in flask, heat for 4 hours at 145C, dissolve in CHCl3, add ethyl acetate to precipitate, filter, wash, dry." It doesn't even have cool apparatus.

Synthetic capsaicin is indeed my goal....I'll be running with dimsyl sodium in DMSO (heat sodium amide and dry DMSO together...I don't have any NaH, but I can make NH3(l) and I have sodium on the way.)

Bezaleel - 25-12-2011 at 16:36

Your picture looks like a queer kind of sheet metal in a flask. Cool.

turd - 28-12-2011 at 11:48

A 7 mm crystal of p-dimethoxybenzene à la PainKilla that grew directly out of the reaction mixture. :o

dmb.jpg - 297kB

UnintentionalChaos - 31-12-2011 at 16:40

Drops of aniline condensing on the upper wall of an RBF while vacuum-distilling aniline. The attachment aniline.background needs to be renamed to a .jpg and is a 1920x1200 image if you'd like to use it as a background. (This gets around the forum's size limits for pictures)

[Edited on 1-1-12 by UnintentionalChaos]

Attachment: aniline.background (730kB)
This file has been downloaded 1049 times

aniline_resize.jpg - 201kB

benzylchloride1 - 1-1-2012 at 18:59

Here is some pictures of a nickelocene, bis(cyclopentadienyl)nickel(II) synthesis I conducted at my home lab over Christmas break.

Nickelocene1.jpg - 156kB

[Edited on 2-1-2012 by benzylchloride1]

THF still.jpg - 130kB Schlenk Line.jpg - 130kB Schlenk Filter.jpg - 131kB

[Edited on 2-1-2012 by benzylchloride1]

Nickelocene forming.jpg - 293kB Schlenk Filtration.jpg - 168kB

[Edited on 2-1-2012 by benzylchloride1]

Nickelocene Crystals.jpg - 225kB Nickelocene Crystals 8.5 grams.jpg - 124kB Finished Product.jpg - 138kB

[Edited on 2-1-2012 by benzylchloride1]

Lambda-Eyde - 1-1-2012 at 19:15

Your selection of glass, chemicals and analytical equipment is unparallelled among amateurs, benzylchloride1. May I ask how you obtain your chemicals? Seeing as you live in the US, most people run into a few problems on that front.

How did you synthesize the nickelocene? I have considered buying some dicyclopentadiene to prepare metallocenes myself. I'm guessing it's the dicyclopentadiene you have in that solvent still?

Btw - I and many others would love if you'd write down something for the prepublication section. You obviously have many interesting, challenging, novel (and legitimate) projects. I for one would love a topic summarizing your carpanone synthesis, as I find total synthesis to be probably the most interesting subject in all of chemistry.

Edit: Oh, and those ampoules are simply lovely :D

[Edited on 2-1-2012 by Lambda-Eyde]

benzylchloride1 - 1-1-2012 at 20:18

I obtain many chemicals off of Ebay, and I also know someone that I can buy chemicals through. I am thinking about putting a article together for the prepublication section on the nickelocene synthesis since I really enjoy this prep. I used balloon grade helium as the inert gas in this synthesis. The single piece solvent still was used to distill my THF from sodium benzophenone ketyl prior to use, The pictures do not do justice to the color of the THF still pot. In this post there is a picture of the still that I used for cracking the dicyclopentadiene. I would recommend buying some dicyclopentadiene since it is usually dirt cheap if you have a source for it and it is useful for so many things. I prepared nickel (II) chloride from nickel (II) carbonate purchased on Ebay. From the nickel (II) chloride, I prepared hexaamine nickel(II) chloride using 30% aqueous ammonia, I bought this from High Valley Chemical. The 10% stuff from Ace Hardware can be used, but it requires more acetone for crashing the product out. I would recommend making this coordination complex to anyone interested in amateur chemistry. I produced a solution of sodium cyclopentadienide in THF by adding cyclopentadiene to a stirred suspension of powdered sodium in THF. After the formation of the sodium cyclopentadienide, which is light purplish pink in color, the hexaaminenickel(II) chloride is added and the mixture is slowly heated to reflux, resulting in the generation of a large amount of ammonia gas and a gradual color change to the characteristic bright green color of nickelocene. The mixture was then filtered through pool filter aid under helium, and the solvent removed under vacuum, leaving the crude product, which was then sublimed under dynamic high vacuum from a 80 C oil bath. I would recommend perusing surplus stores of major universities on a regular basis, this seems to be the best way to build a lab very quickly. Interesting that you brought up the carpanone synthesis since I have been working on this lately, I am very close to finishing it, I had to rethink how to synthesize the sesamol. Take a look at the carpanone thread for an update. I am also thinking about writing an article on the preparation of bis(1,2-diphenylphosphino)ethane and other chelating phosphines. I have been interested in these phosphines for making organometallics and coordination complexes. There seems to be no report in the literature for preparing these compounds in solvents other then liquid ammonia. I ended up using a patent for making sodium diphenylphosphide in anhydrous ethylenediamine for my purposes. After adding 1,2-dichloroethane, allowing the mixture to stand overnight and a aqueous work up I got a 60% yield of the product. I tried the reaction twice on two different scales and the yields were within six percent of each other. I am planning on preparing some of the corresponding phosphines from dichloromethane and 1,3-dichloropropane.

[Edited on 2-1-2012 by benzylchloride1]

[Edited on 2-1-2012 by benzylchloride1]

Cracking Dicyclopentadiene.jpg - 156kB

[Edited on 2-1-2012 by benzylchloride1]

[Edited on 2-1-2012 by benzylchloride1]

[Edited on 2-1-2012 by benzylchloride1]

ItalianChemist - 2-1-2012 at 14:09

Chemiluminescence of 2,4,5-triphenylimidazole!
It's nothing special, but i like this compound!

DSC02617 copia.JPG - 121kB

dann2 - 25-1-2012 at 11:24


Running a Sodium Perchlorate cell (Lead Dioxide Anode) with a very high concentration of Perrchlorate and had a power cut. The temperature of the cell fell from 50 to 30 degrees C and I obtained some nice shards of Sodium Perchlorate on the Anode. Most of them seem to come from the MMO just above the Anode proper.

perk.jpg - 107kB

[Edited on 25-1-2012 by dann2]

Adas - 25-1-2012 at 12:25

Wow, the NaClO4 is really beautiful! I wish I had some MMO electrodes, lol...

Morgan - 25-1-2012 at 17:51

Just some gray titanium tubing anodized/flamed with a propane torch. I found if you polish the tubing surface with a very fine sandpaper it produces a far more vivid color pattern when the oxide layer forms. I think from memory, the first color to come up is a bronze-gold and then blue the more you heat it. After that it's tricky to get the pinks and greens. If you are not careful and heat it too much, it reverts back to a drab gray with faint colors barely seen. The best color is seen when viewed in indirect sunlight.

Titanium tubing.JPG - 67kB


[Edited on 26-1-2012 by Morgan]

BromicAcid - 25-1-2012 at 19:12

Recently I did some copper electroplating / brass electroetching. After I was through I let the electrolyte evaporate naturally and this is what I was left with.

- I know CuSO<sub>4</sub> has been done to death but this is all I have lately.

CuSO4.jpg - 384kB

Pulverulescent - 3-2-2012 at 04:01

A few more pretty pictures!

P

dann2 - 10-2-2012 at 12:51


Sodium Chlorate crystals with some Sulphur.



na_o3.jpg - 31kB

Adas - 10-2-2012 at 13:42

Amazing! Beautiful crystals. How did you make them?

dann2 - 10-2-2012 at 17:45


They just formed at the bottom of an evaporating Sodium Chlorate solution.
They actually look better with the eye than in the picture. Bad Photography. You could make jewellery with them. Not too good on a wet day though.

I lit the Sulphur that was sitting on the crystal expecting some reaction but funny enough the Sulphur burned itself out without reacting with the Chlorate and left a thin layer of plastic Sulphur sitting on the crystal.
Sulphur and Sodium Chlorate should not be used together in Pyrotechnics.

Dann2

White Yeti - 12-2-2012 at 08:27

I walked into my lab and was greeted with a pleasant surprise. The urea I extracted from fertiliser crystallised into beautiful large crystals.
Picture:
IMG_0387 downsize.jpg - 236kB

plante1999 - 12-2-2012 at 08:28

Nice! How long did it took to dry?

Endimion17 - 12-2-2012 at 10:16

Those are some nice crystals. :)
Do you guys ever get into situations where you need the chemical which crystalized with stunning beauty and size, or you need the glassware where it happened in? What do you do? Do you make another sample, buy more glassware or you destroy the crystals?

UnintentionalChaos - 12-2-2012 at 10:45

Quote: Originally posted by Endimion17  
Those are some nice crystals. :)
Do you guys ever get into situations where you need the chemical which crystalized with stunning beauty and size, or you need the glassware where it happened in? What do you do? Do you make another sample, buy more glassware or you destroy the crystals?


Break those crystals! Take a pic to post in this thread and then pulverize them.

White Yeti - 12-2-2012 at 12:00

Quote: Originally posted by UnintentionalChaos  
Break those crystals! Take a pic to post in this thread and then pulverize them.


I can't agree more. That's exactly what I did! Apparently, urea crystals are really fragile, I agitated the jar and all the crystals came loose and turned into a slush. I can post a picture, but it isn't pretty:)

To be honest, I was expecting the water to evaporate and leave a mushy amorphous semisolid of urea mixed with water, I wasn't expecting crystals. The fact I got crystals is quite surprising.
Did anyone else accidentally grow large crystals of urea? The only pictures of urea crystals I found so far were of the microscopic kind.

White Yeti - 12-2-2012 at 12:02

Quote: Originally posted by plante1999  
Nice! How long did it took to dry?


Approximately a month, but they're not completely dry yet.

Endimion17 - 12-2-2012 at 12:08

^^nor they'll ever become. Industrial purity urea is hygroscopic, sometimes even deliquescent (lower quality, moist environment). The more times you try to recristalize it, the less hygroscopic it becomes. Judging by the color of your sample, they aren't pure enough.

But I was thinking about really stunning, large crystals or even monocrystals. I'd probably store them for good unless the substance is for some reason too important for my work.

White Yeti - 12-2-2012 at 13:35

Quote: Originally posted by Endimion17  
^^nor they'll ever become. Industrial purity urea is hygroscopic, sometimes even deliquescent (lower quality, moist environment). The more times you try to recristalize it, the less hygroscopic it becomes. Judging by the color of your sample, they aren't pure enough.

But I was thinking about really stunning, large crystals or even monocrystals. I'd probably store them for good unless the substance is for some reason too important for my work.


I know urea is a desiccant, I've actually bought some things that had urea packs to absorb moisture instead of silica gel; sodium hydroxide is not used for obvious reasons;)

For this first purification, I wasn't aiming for high purity. I bought urea based fertiliser from Lowes and it contains ~30% urea (highest content of all the the fertilisers). The rest of it is "slow release polymer coated sulfur" among other things, most of which are insoluble in water.

Boiling fertiliser in water was the simplest way to extract the urea from all the other junk. I boiled it in a soda lime mason jar, the bottom of which blew off and made a mess. I mopped up all the water solution and put it in another jar to dry, where I forgot it until today. This is why my sample is impure:)

I'm wondering if I'd get a higher yield by evaporating urine, considering all the trouble I went through for so little urea.

MrHomeScientist - 14-2-2012 at 20:22

Unknown copper compound crystallized at the bottom of a beaker:

Copper Compound Crystals.jpg - 165kB

Copper Compound Crystals 2.jpg - 84kB

I have larger resolution images that provide a much better view, but I can't find a way around the 800 pixel image width limit.

These were formed from an attempt to neutralize a copper(II) chloride solution with baking soda. Bicarbonate was added to the blue solution until fizzing stopped, but the blue color remained. I had thought to precipitate copper carbonate, for easier disposal. I left the clear solution overnight, and came back to see these beautiful tiny crystals! They look like copper(II) chloride still, strangely. They are sitting on a white layer of unreacted baking soda.

blogfast25 - 15-2-2012 at 07:24

I'd have to look it up but that would normally give basic copper chloride: Cu2(OH)3Cl (aka verdigris).

See also this thread here:

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=16811&...

Baking soda would probably just give the right alkalinity for this. With stronger alkali like NaOH adding more leads to the hydroxychloride to be converted to simple hydoxide (Cu(OH)2)... Baking soda solution is alkaline but doesn't contain much CO3 (2-).

Endimion17 - 15-2-2012 at 11:33

Quote: Originally posted by White Yeti  
I know urea is a desiccant, I've actually bought some things that had urea packs to absorb moisture instead of silica gel; sodium hydroxide is not used for obvious reasons;)

For this first purification, I wasn't aiming for high purity. I bought urea based fertiliser from Lowes and it contains ~30% urea (highest content of all the the fertilisers). The rest of it is "slow release polymer coated sulfur" among other things, most of which are insoluble in water.

Boiling fertiliser in water was the simplest way to extract the urea from all the other junk. I boiled it in a soda lime mason jar, the bottom of which blew off and made a mess. I mopped up all the water solution and put it in another jar to dry, where I forgot it until today. This is why my sample is impure:)

I'm wondering if I'd get a higher yield by evaporating urine, considering all the trouble I went through for so little urea.


I'm surprised to hear 30% is the highest content you can buy. I thought technical grade urea is widely available. I can go into a store and buy tons of it every day.

White Yeti - 15-2-2012 at 11:46

Quote: Originally posted by Endimion17  

I'm surprised to hear 30% is the highest content you can buy. I thought technical grade urea is widely available. I can go into a store and buy tons of it every day.


Maybe I'm looking in the wrong store. I hear lots of people go to Home Depot for chemicals, but I live closer to a Lowes instead. I spent half an hour looking through all their fertilisers and the highest I could find was 30%.

I also looked for sulfuric acid drain cleaner and copper sulphate, neither of which I could find. I'll make myself a note to check out if Home Depot has a larger selection of chemicals.

zoombafu - 15-2-2012 at 12:51

Those urea crystals are really cool looking. They are nice and big.

Paddywhacker - 15-2-2012 at 16:49

Quote: Originally posted by White Yeti  
Quote: Originally posted by Endimion17  

I'm surprised to hear 30% is the highest content you can buy. I thought technical grade urea is widely available. I can go into a store and buy tons of it every day.


Maybe I'm looking in the wrong store. I hear lots of people go to Home Depot for chemicals, but I live closer to a Lowes instead. I spent half an hour looking through all their fertilisers and the highest I could find was 30%.

I also looked for sulfuric acid drain cleaner and copper sulphate, neither of which I could find. I'll make myself a note to check out if Home Depot has a larger selection of chemicals.


You might be looking at the NPK ratio. Urea is 46% nitrogen.

tastyphenome - 15-2-2012 at 19:09

Urea can be purchased in high quality dirt cheap from anyone selling tie dye stuff. internet, hippy store, hobby/craft store. soda ash aswell.

edit: Also, best quick fix for sulfuric IMO is autozone/orielleys/advanced auto parts stores. they sell a 6qt and 5gal in my town. not every location has it in stock. 3/5 will in my area. this is aprox 51% it boils down to very very light discoloration. this can be fixed with H2O2. ask for wet cell electrolyte. they might just call it battery acid.

12$usd for 6qt@51%=cheap for clean otc. i found much better chemicals once i stopped looking at home depot/lowes. only good for solvents(minus toluene/dcm/heptane) and sotra cheap roebec lye. in my area atleast.
also hcl. tho slightly discolored/dirty.


[Edited on 16-2-2012 by tastyphenome]

White Yeti - 16-2-2012 at 11:50

Thanks for the suggestions, but this is not a thread dedicated to buying and finding chemicals. In any case, the recrystallisation worked like a charm, and strangely enough, the solution did not creep up the sides. Does anyone know why?

Whenever I do recrystallisations of any kind, I always get "creep" where the solution would go up the sides of the container and sometimes go over the rim.

zoombafu - 16-2-2012 at 11:52

Quote: Originally posted by White Yeti  
Thanks for the suggestions, but this is not a thread dedicated to buying and finding chemicals. In any case, the recrystallisation worked like a charm, and strangely enough, the solution did not creep up the sides. Does anyone know why?

Whenever I do recrystallisations of any kind, I always get "creep" where the solution would go up the sides of the container and sometimes go over the rim.


I usualy get that creep when i use water as a solvent, so I think it has something to do with the meniscus and the surface tension.

White Yeti - 16-2-2012 at 12:00

Quote: Originally posted by zoombafu  
I usualy get that creep when i use water as a solvent, so I think it has something to do with the meniscus and the surface tension.


I used water to dissolve the urea, it would be really stupid to use anything else. Cohesion and adhesion forces are definitely part of the story. Perhaps water does not adhere to solid urea? Thus the crystals formed do not wick up additional solution....

zoombafu - 19-2-2012 at 18:14

Here's a picture I took of some copper II chloride crystals that I produced.

crystals.jpg - 35kB

White Yeti - 19-2-2012 at 19:21

Interesting...

About CuCl2, I got a colourful equilibrium going between copper acetate and copper chloride once.

I dropped some CaCl2 into some copper acetate solution and swirled. Green a copper chloride solution would form around the CaCl2 and then it would turn into blue acetate again after some time. If you swirrled it again, the copper chloride would form again, and disappear just as fast. I'll post a picture if I get the chance.
My camera doesn't bring out the colours very well, but it's a fun thing to try out if you're really bored.

zoombafu - 19-2-2012 at 19:37

Quote: Originally posted by White Yeti  
Interesting...

About CuCl2, I got a colourful equilibrium going between copper acetate and copper chloride once.

I dropped some CaCl2 into some copper acetate solution and swirled. Green a copper chloride solution would form around the CaCl2 and then it would turn into blue acetate again after some time. If you swirrled it again, the copper chloride would form again, and disappear just as fast. I'll post a picture if I get the chance.
My camera doesn't bring out the colours very well, but it's a fun thing to try out if you're really bored.


Ill make sure to try that in the future

Vlassis - 1-3-2012 at 10:42

Salicylic Acid Needles

[Edited on 1-3-2012 by Vlassis]

100_0174.JPG - 231kB

[Edited on 1-3-2012 by Vlassis]

100_0172.JPG - 208kB

Vlassis - 1-3-2012 at 10:56

Oxalic Acid from Ethylene Glycol/Nitric Acid

100_0140.JPG - 178kB100_0137.JPG - 292kB

copper acetate

Diablo - 1-3-2012 at 12:44

A mix of copper acetate and copper metal in Hdpe dish.


sized.jpg - 122kB

AirCowPeaCock - 1-3-2012 at 13:13

Pretty, though you should get a picture that shows the full dish centered. It would be more appealing, and more balanced.

m1tanker78 - 1-3-2012 at 15:23

I love the needle crystal pics lately. I'll try to keep the theme going with one of my own.

Testosterone barbs/needles forming and settling out:


Tank

White Yeti - 1-3-2012 at 15:28

How much testosterone is that? Looks like quite a bit you got there!

Diablo - 1-3-2012 at 19:00



There we go centered.
resized.jpg - 116kB

AirCowPeaCock - 1-3-2012 at 19:19

It's surprisingly beautiful, and now we can see the copper metal. If only I had the brains to take pictures of these things when they happen. ;)

Phthalic acid
peuf_20120301_5.jpg - 364kB




Phthalic anhydride boiling/condensing/freezing
peuf_20120301_4.jpg - 420kB

[Edited on 3-2-2012 by AirCowPeaCock]

blogfast25 - 2-3-2012 at 06:47

Quote: Originally posted by AirCowPeaCock  
It's surprisingly beautiful, and now we can see the copper metal. If only I had the brains to take pictures of these things when they happen. ;)

Phthalic acid





Phthalic anhydride boiling/condensing/freezing


[Edited on 3-2-2012 by AirCowPeaCock]


Nice phtalic acid! Did you synth it yourself and if so, how? :cool:

AirCowPeaCock - 2-3-2012 at 10:10

That phthalic acid was synthesized using the same process nurd rage uses--which I dislike. Its not as much as it looks, its mostly air--based on my phthalic anhydride yield (4.3 g) I'm going to guess it was about 4.3 g, which would be an optimistic ~ 89.15% yield on the conversion (alot of gloves for so little, atleast I have 200g of PVC powder now). I'm going to try a xylene oxidation in a few days. Since its cheap and plentiful I could probably produce 50+ g with little trouble, and I will have two xylene isomers left. I'm going to make some luminol and potassium hydrogen phthalate with it, and Ill keep some of the anhydride in a little bottle in case I find later use for it.

[Edited on 3-2-2012 by AirCowPeaCock]

mr.crow - 2-3-2012 at 10:32

Quote: Originally posted by m1tanker78  
I love the needle crystal pics lately. I'll try to keep the theme going with one of my own.


Preposterous amounts of testosterone! Preposterone!

Pulverulescent - 2-3-2012 at 10:50

Sure puts the 'tossed' in testosterone ─ a 'testament' to all things testicular . . .(:P)

blogfast25 - 2-3-2012 at 12:15

Quote: Originally posted by AirCowPeaCock  
That phthalic acid was synthesized using the same process nurd rage uses--which I dislike. Its not as much as it looks, its mostly air--based on my phthalic anhydride yield (4.3 g) [...]

[Edited on 3-2-2012 by AirCowPeaCock]


Ah: solvent extraction of DOP from pPVC (gloves), followed by hydrolysis of he DOP, right? Been there, done that: expensive in gloves!

AirCowPeaCock - 2-3-2012 at 12:20

yeah, its not too expensive--atleast not if you just want a few gram. I don't know how he got 13g of Phthalic anhydride from 50g of gloves. I could only get half that will 200g of gloves! -- my gloves must suck!

blogfast25 - 2-3-2012 at 16:08

Quote: Originally posted by AirCowPeaCock  
yeah, its not too expensive--atleast not if you just want a few gram. I don't know how he got 13g of Phthalic anhydride from 50g of gloves. I could only get half that will 200g of gloves! -- my gloves must suck!


Even 13 g of PAA from 100 g of gloves would sound improbably high to me. DOP content of gloves: max 30 %, something like that?

Also: try an old shower curtain, cheaper than virgin gloves!

[Edited on 3-3-2012 by blogfast25]

AirCowPeaCock - 2-3-2012 at 17:01

I think the way to go is xylene oxidation, I've found a few references to oxidation in the liquid phase. Even with 5% efficiency (I imagine) it would be much cheaper than any PVC source.

dann2 - 2-3-2012 at 17:29


Hope I am not repramanded for (bad speelling too pehaps) putting ugly pictures in the pretty pictures thread.
Here we have a bar of pure Copper that has had the top portion melted into a ball. Copper has a high melting temperature and I have been able to achieve this melting feat using a lit match! The flame of a lit match can easily melt Copper as the picture shows.
There is some oxide on the ball. I should have perhaps cleaned up the Copper with an acid dip or somesuch.

The bar of Copper (I should mention) is 48swg Copper wire.
Dann2

cu.jpg - 61kB

Endimion17 - 2-3-2012 at 17:45

It's been a really cold winter here, and my benzene has frozen solid, so I uploaded the photo to Wikipedia.

UnintentionalChaos - 2-3-2012 at 19:35

Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25  
Quote: Originally posted by AirCowPeaCock  
yeah, its not too expensive--atleast not if you just want a few gram. I don't know how he got 13g of Phthalic anhydride from 50g of gloves. I could only get half that will 200g of gloves! -- my gloves must suck!


Even 13 g of PAA from 100 g of gloves would sound improbably high to me. DOP content of gloves: max 30 %, something like that?

Also: try an old shower curtain, cheaper than virgin gloves!

[Edited on 3-3-2012 by blogfast25]


I found shower curtain to have much lower DOP content than the gloves. The shower curtain I tried to extract contained 10% DOP based on mass lost after several hours of soxhlet extraction.

The gloves I used were a solid 36% DOP and I scraped 73.6g of fairly clean phthalic acid from 570g of gloves following a recrystallization (85% yield)

blogfast25 - 3-3-2012 at 06:43

Quote: Originally posted by UnintentionalChaos  

I found shower curtain to have much lower DOP content than the gloves. The shower curtain I tried to extract contained 10% DOP based on mass lost after several hours of soxhlet extraction.

The gloves I used were a solid 36% DOP and I scraped 73.6g of fairly clean phthalic acid from 570g of gloves following a recrystallization (85% yield)


Yes, I remember that now, UC. Still, USED pPVC is a lot cheaper than virgin gloves. Shower curtains are made of a slightly harder pPVC compound, so less plasticiser. I also used pPVC flooring once: also less yield but FOC raw material...

Today you'd have to avoid the 'Phthalate FREE!' products for that sort of thing.

I may revisit DOP extraction/hydrolysis to makse some pure K hydrogen phthalate, a primary standard for acid/base titrations.


[Edited on 3-3-2012 by blogfast25]

Recrystallization of Piperine

Bot0nist - 3-3-2012 at 11:25

Got to love the needles. Here is piperine (&chavicine?) that was extracted from black pepper with IPA being recrystallized from 10ml of etOH/IPA mix. Slowly cooled overnight. One of my favorite things is watching a recrystallization come to fruit. Ever so satisfying...



PiperineClose.jpg - 194kB

PiperineBig2.jpg - 146kB

White Yeti - 3-3-2012 at 11:44

Quote: Originally posted by AirCowPeaCock  
I think the way to go is xylene oxidation, I've found a few references to oxidation in the liquid phase. Even with 5% efficiency (I imagine) it would be much cheaper than any PVC source.


Here's a video UC did on the synthesis of phthalic acid. I think this is many orders of magnitude cheaper than PVC, but I've never tried it myself.

@Bot0nist Nice crystals! Those rival the beauty of those on the wikipedia page.

May I ask, how much pepper did you use to make that sample?

Bot0nist - 3-3-2012 at 11:54

25grams fresh ground aromatic pepper. Followed the same workup I used <a href="http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=10676&page=2#pid222835">here</a> .



blogfast25 - 3-3-2012 at 12:45

Quote: Originally posted by White Yeti  

@Bot0nist Nice crystals! Those rival the beauty of those on the wikipedia page.



Excellent, WY. That's been bookmarked.

mr.crow - 3-3-2012 at 13:23

Excellent photos guys!

The piperine looks really spicy. Solid benzene looks like ice in a soda

I once melted a copper wire in a similar way using a neon sign transformer. The arc melts it into a little glowing ball

I just bought some phthalic anhydride instead of the popular messing around with gloves method hehe

blogfast25 - 3-3-2012 at 16:11

Quote: Originally posted by Bot0nist  
25grams fresh ground aromatic pepper. Followed the same workup I used <a href="http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=10676&page=2#pid222835">here</a> .




Were you posting with a different handle? There seems to be no Bot0nist on that thread...

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