Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Amateur Chemistry in Australia

Amateur Chemistry in Australia

InFormation - 3-12-2010 at 02:57

Hi everyone.

After browsing the forums for a few weeks, I've got to say, I really like what you're doing here, and what you all stand for. It's unfortunate the problems that things like this face - all the legitimate reasons for furthering people's enjoyments and hobbies impeded by the people that want to abuse those things. Chemistry is, as I've poked around here, now apparent to me as another of these.

This is a problem, since I want to start amateur chemistry myself, since I've really enjoyed chemistry at school the last few years, and want to start tinkering myself. The thing that worries me most is what I've read here particularly about people in Australia having problems buying glassware and getting a visit from the police randomly. This isn't something I feel is absolutely wanted, as taking up a hobby in my view isn't synonymous with putting the family through random police checks to make sure everything is in order.

So with all this in mind, are there any Aussies here / people familiar with Aussie law that would be willing to tell me the laws and such of this? Believe me, I've already done thorough forum and Google searches to try and find info on the legalities (I'm talking about Victoria, Australia by the way) and illegalities of all this, but everything is very vague and hard to find. Are there any laws or general rules on what glassware is acceptable / not to posses (is it legal at all to own anything more than beakers or test tubes?), a government issued list of illegal / controlled reagents, etc?
Don't take me for naive, I just like to be concrete solid on the facts before I pursue something I don't have the whole picture of.

Thanks, and I hope to learn a lot (and contribute more in time

).

- InFormation

Bismuth - 5-12-2010 at 15:04

The laws in Australia regarding amateur chemistry are quite ambiguous. While I wish I knew of a resource which just came straight out in plain English on what you can/can't do, I'm doubtful on its actual existence.

Your best bet is to take a look at all of the controlled precursors in the United States and to not have ANY of them. While some of the Type-II ones are a little ridiculous, I would personally store these in a different area to your lab just so they can't have a go at you. Even if you have acetone, distilled water and all that jazz, you will still be conspicuous. If you don't have any of the drug precursors, you're pretty much fine.

I mean, if you have an inordinate amount of explosive precursors or whatever, you will still get in trouble. But more often than not, they don't really care all too much if you engage in amateur pyrotechnics or like to delve into that area of chemistry (in a sensible level that is). Stay away from obvious precursors (to them that is) for explosives: glycerine, hexamine and others especially if you have nitric acid in the lab too. I would just keep them separate somewhere if you needed them.

Other things to do is to make sure you label every single chemical you own. Having the MSDS on each chemical is advisable too. They do not like unlabelled anonymous chemicals at all and they generally will confiscate it. Make sure the place is neat, organized and is tidy. Have a fire extinguisher or two and make sure you participate in the hobby very professionally. In terms of glassware, well, it's hard to say what is monitored and what isn't. Distillation apparatus may very well be monitored here in Australia. Buying some of it may result in someone coming over, but as long as you have nothing to 'hide', it'll be fine. Beakers, flasks, test tubes and all that are rather safe to own and you won't suffer any legal repercussions for having these.

Hope that helps.

[Edited on 5-12-2010 by Bismuth]

InFormation - 5-12-2010 at 15:32

Thanks mate! That helps a lot, and sheds a lot of worry. From what I had read, I was particularly worried that somehow (in the wonderful spirit of Australian law) that owning an Erlenmeyer or something could be vaguely construed as conspiracy to commit crime or something silly.

Though I do have one more question now that I think about it: reading material. Are chemistry textbooks with more advanced examples (permanganates and other examples, some of which fall on List II) a liability? The last thing I want is being told that, since I own a book on theory and it includes example x, I must have intended to manufacture x.

[Edited on 5-12-2010 by InFormation]

Bismuth - 6-12-2010 at 00:59

To the best of my knowledge, there's nothing in Australia that can be really considered to be prohibited literature. Even if you go ordering PiHKAL, explosive books and the like; you shouldn't under the law be prosecuted for it. However, ordering these in probably could get a spot next to your name and you might be on a watch list.

Now, these are very specific books that are solely discussing activities that in Victoria, are illegal. From past people I know, no one I have ever encountered has ever gotten in trouble for ordering these into Australia. A chemistry textbook with some List II precursor production? Don't worry about it.

They won't go ripping your house apart unless they seriously have a probable reason to do so (which, from what I gathered, would never arise with your intentions).

I would be storing my books in a different area to the lab anyway (you don't want books around there) so I doubt if you did have some 'strange' literature, they would go searching away in the house frantically looking at every book you own. They're not going to browse through every single chapter in a text book to find some weak piece of evidence. So don't have ANY fears about having a chemistry book that discusses type II precursors.

Australia isn't as bad as people make out to be. While there are crap laws, most of the time they don't care as long as it's not drugs. Really, it all comes down to drugs. I've known people who have explicitly told law enforcement they are experimenting with homemade rocketry, fireworks or whatever and they said they couldn't give a rat's ass as long as they didn't piss any neighbors off/destroy anything. Take a look at Alan Yate's website and all those other Australians. If they cared so much about amateur experimentation, they would crack down on some very easy cases. But they don't as long as it seems safe and it's not funding any black market. Try stay away from chemicals involved with that, and you'll be fine.

InFormation - 6-12-2010 at 01:09

Thanks again, Bismuth, you've been very helpful. Maybe I can get some glassware now in time for Christmas

Ephoton - 6-12-2010 at 02:51

glass is not a prob so long as you dont buy over 5L.

we are allowed to have essential oil sets up to this volume.

chems that is different.

some are ok others not so.

I think you will have less trouble with customs if you stick to the glass sizes under

5L than you will with local companies (though I have ordered from locals before)

I think this is becouse the police like to use the local glass blowers as a way

to find meth cooks.

its pritty hard to do this if the glass is comming from OS.

best of luck mate dont let the stink put you off.

bquirky - 6-12-2010 at 06:13

Ive orderd glassware from local supplyers and picked up general reagents from Sigma chemicals over the counter no problems at all.

the only way that i can see you having an issue is if you have a dodgey housemate that gets into unrelated trouble regarding drugs.

BUT if you want to setup some SERIOUS kit. register a sole trader bissness name and get an ABN it only costs a hundred bucks and makes you a ligitiment blue sky research startup then you can do whatever you want. and have no extra tax or reporting obigations untill you earn a profit. (you might evan get some deductions for costs if you can be botherd and can demonstrate an asumption of turning a profit over the next 3 (i think, prehaps 5) years ).

I was doing a bunch of radio electronics and computer stuff a while ago got a name and ABN used it for a few years. made a few hundred bucks randomly. Declared it. and deregistered when i lost intrest. its not a big deal.

Everything in our society is setup to suport comercal operations. Gota make the system work for you

But just generally I think you can relax.
just dont poison next door with noxious fumes

Regards

InFormation - 6-12-2010 at 14:19

You both make some good points, I'll keep that in mind. I likely don't need anything over 250mL to start with for now anyway, so size isn't a major concern. Maybe an ABN would be a viable option in a couple of years if I find I'm enjoying it more, and want to get some better equipment.
Local companies wouldn't be a problem if I said I was getting it for school, would they? (Not half false - I'd like to take this up to get ahead of the school's chemistry course so I can ace it, with the side bonus that I'd enjoy it as a hobby). Reason being, glassware from overseas looks fairly expensive by comparison.

Oh, and no dodgy housemates

.

[Edited on 6-12-2010 by InFormation]

frobber777 - 2-3-2011 at 20:34

I live in Perth, Western Australia and was just about to order a whole bunch of equipment from Laboy glass on eBAY.
A few round bottom flasks (1L, 500ml), 3 condensers (Allihn, Vigreux & Liebig) and a Soxhlet extractor.
Laboy glass are many times cheaper that buying from local Perth suppliers.

I really don't want to be questioned by the police, not that I have anything to hide. Just don't want the embarrassment of them turning up on my door.
Any glassware you know is on the "watch list" in Australia? Or tips on how to minimise your changes of been questioned?

Thanks.

frobber777 - 3-3-2011 at 05:41

Okay, I've done some research and partially answered my own question.
From the Australia Code of Practice for Supply Diversion into Illicit Drug Manufacture

These may require "end user declartions":
Round bottom reaction flask (capacity 500ml or greater)
Condenser (joint size B19 or greater)
Splash Heads and Distillation Heads
Heating mantles (capacity 500ml or greater)
Rotary Evaporators

These may be used as a "guide for illicit drug manufacture":
Buchner funnels
Buchner flasks
Magnetic Stirrer/Hotplates
Separating funnels
Chemical balances
Quickfit adapters

Pretty draconian is you ask me, as this is all basic equipment. The 500ml flask size is very small. Not the maximum of 5L, which is the legal maximum for distillation.

bquirky - 3-3-2011 at 08:29

frobber777

seriously.. dont worry about it..

I actuly just brought a bunch of basic labstuff back from the US in my suitcase for no real reson other than i visited a dedicated chemistry shop in san jose and was not leaving empty handed

all those laws are used for pinning stuff to people the cops are after anyway (a state of afairs i dont agree with but thats the way things are) so unless you have a dodgey housemate (or you are a bit dodgey) with a stash at your house that the cops go hunting for.

then no one will give a shit.

im from Perth allso and if you like i am happy to have them delivered to myself and I can drop them off for you.

regards.

frobber777 - 3-3-2011 at 17:27

Hey bquirky,
Thanks for the offer - think I'll just order and take the risk. Nothing about me would raise any red flags if they checked.

trezza - 4-3-2011 at 04:09

Plenty of reassurement there...
I just found this on a legal website.

Quote:

What the police must prove
In order for the police to prove their case at Court, they must prove each of the following matters beyond a reasonable doubt.
1. The accused had possession of a precursor.
2. The precursor was intended by the person for use in the manufacture or production, by that person or another person, of a prohibited drug.
It will be necessary for the Police in every offence to prove that the accused was the person who committed the offence.
http://www.armstronglegal.com.au/web/page/possession_of_prec...

SO what that tells me is that I am allowed to have in my possession ANY chemical which ISN'T on their list of precursors.

If you buy lots of suspicious chemicals, lets just say pentaerythritol, nitric acid and sulphuric acid all in one go, they chemical supplier may become suspicious and you could get a visit from the police, though they can't do anything if you don't actually have an illegal substances in your possession, they'd need to prove that you intended to make explosives with it.

[Edited on 4-3-2011 by trezza]

frobber777 - 23-3-2011 at 20:32

An update.
My order from laboy glass has arrived and I've had no issues with the police.
The package does not appear to have been opened or tampered with in any way.

The order contained many items on the may require end user declaration list:
2 x 1000ml single necked RBF, 500 ml 2 necked and 3 necked RBF.
2 x Condensers.
1 x Separating funnel.

Guess I was worrying over nothing.

Thanks for putting my mind at rest

PS. I'm very happy with the quality of glassware from laboy and their very good customer service.

mewrox99 - 26-3-2011 at 15:53

Ha Australia isn't as bad as I thought.

No-one in NZ will sell me distill equipment or RBFs without making me fill out a form which goes to the NZ police. Joy!

Hell Labwarehouse got a cop at my door for ordering flasks and beakers. Luckily my mum didn't show him the lab and he didn't seem to care

Bot0nist - 26-3-2011 at 16:31

Quote: Originally posted by mewrox99

Ha Australia isn't as bad as I thought.

No-one in NZ will sell me distill equipment or RBFs without making me fill out a form which goes to the NZ police. Joy!

Hell Labwarehouse got a cop at my door for ordering flasks and beakers. Luckily my mum didn't show him the lab and he didn't seem to care

What nerve. An inspection for glassware??? Fascists!

mewrox99 - 26-3-2011 at 20:45

They never actually inspected. A single community constable who knew me from a previous chemistry related incident involving flash powder asked to take a look and was declined. After that I never heard anything from anyone from the police

tetrahedron - 10-10-2012 at 16:23

Quote: Originally posted by frobber777

Code of Practice for Supply Diversion into Illicit Drug Manufacture

here it is in all it's wisdom: http://scienceindustry.com.au/storage/documents/Code.pdf

Quote:

End User Declaration Only Required When Sold to Non-Account Customers: ammonium formate, ... chromium trioxide, ... formaldehyde, ... magnesium, ... nitromethane, palladium, phenylalanine, ...

Quote:

No Reporting Required. This list should be used as guide to alert staff that these products may be used in illicit drug manufacture: acetic acid, ... sodium acetate, sodium hydroxide, ...

1Mother - 27-3-2016 at 09:32

In Western Australia be careful. I had a heap of Glassware and Chems in a Lab I had set up. I did not nor did I intend to Make drugs. Could I? Probably if I wanted to but I'm not interested in that stuff. Anyway I was raided by 12 cops and two Chemists fro 14 Hours. They took heaps of my gear and Chems. they would ask what are you doing with it? To which I told them Science, and I found it stimulating and interesting. Now they raided me because I was buying stuff on Ebay. I knew I could not have high capacity stuff but was not aware at the time on the b19 neck size. Anyway I was charged with heaps of stuff. I had to get a Criminal Lawyer just to have the best chance. The outcome was $3500! I'm pretty sure they Knew I wasn't doing any bad stuff with my kit within 10 minutes of entering my house but they of course were trying to Justify their exsistance. So ended up costing a Single Dad with 3 kids at home almost everything he had. I don't have a record at all. Now the funny thing is they gave me back (what they called) a Splash head (which is supposed to be illegal), but it was just a right angle connector. So be aware that the people running the Drug squad in Western Australia have NO IDEA what they are doing. They have their own agenda of what I don't know. They are Cocky very rude and very Unprofessional in carying out their duties. And I have no Idea why they won't give my Chems back as the Chem Lab report said I was not doing anything Illegal. They said some of the Chems were dodgy. Not only do I know they are wrong but they were all labeled and kept safe with and envelope close by with ALL of the MSDS sheets there. If anybody knows how I can get my Chems back I would appreciate it. Don't care too much about the Glassware they took as I put that down as Lesson learnt.

1Mother - 27-3-2016 at 09:34

Frobber777 If any of the stuff you bought b19 or larger they WILL pay you a visit. Stand-by. I had it for months before they turned up.

bariumbromate - 12-3-2025 at 21:28

if you are here in 2025 you can get good glassware cheaply from vevor.com.au

and chemicals from auschemsource.com.au + https://www.ssapl.com.au/

you only need end user declaration for high risk chemicals like sodium metal

MrDoctor - 13-3-2025 at 00:39

when you sign an EUD its kind of like gun licenses, it allows police to show up unnanounced and verify you are using the product as you declared.
there is a modest gap though between things that they use EUDs for, and things that are actually illegal or prohibited like oversized glassware, i think RBFs at either 5L or 10L, but why would you, a home chemist need a 10L RBF really. the trick is just dont buy from places that require EUDs, they are imposed on sellers not owners.
EUDs are used in place of extremely invasive anti chemistry/science laws that could never reasonably be passed, so instead they just added this requirement to retail stores to track people and get a foot in the door legally speaking, because its easier to add make certain purchases conditional than it is to make a bunch of benign things illegal.

For the same reasons you may have noticed many of the big chemistry supplies places refuse local pickups and require that goods are sent via restricted courier to commercial addresses only with loading docks, which often costs many times more than the item cost and theres no good reason to insist on that, but it ties a physical commercial address to you and the details you provided. I was told by two people at some chemical supplies shops in the gold coast, a couple years ago they were told it was illegal for them to sell pure sulfuric acid retail anymore, which was what i was there for. the upside is one of them unable to sell it just gave me their last 5L bottle of acid with my order

Auschemsource is going to go out of business soon, i got some 98% sulfuric acid from them just to see if i could, and someone i know got ether, they repackage their chemicals, im not doubting its not LR or the advertised grade, but, thats not a factory sealed bottle of acid, or diethyl ether or chloroform they are mailing through the post totally unmarked other than a fragile glass warning, repackaged in generic square shaped reagent bottles. inevitably at some point some poor courier is going to get blitzed by a noxious spill and end up in a horrific accident. They very openly are breaking the law.

bariumbromate - 22-3-2025 at 16:08

i brought 5l sulfuric acid last month here

https://www.rapidcleannewcastle.com.au/product/6585-sulfuric...

it is legal as long as they ship it with dangerous goods shipping which auschemsource does

MrDoctor - 23-3-2025 at 01:45

When i ordered the sulfuric acid from auschem it arrived by australia post, it wasnt by a special DG service, or at very least there was no sign of it, it just went by ground which permits more things, but not something like 98% acid which is a poison/combustion risk, i myself have posted DG items before at a prior job which dealt with lab chemicals, at bare minimum a DG warning label and an SDS in an exterior pocket are mandatory, my orders with sulfuric acid and chloroform had neither. on another occasion my order was carried by fasthorse couriers, they are similar to amazon flex, literally anyone just shows up and delivers for them out of their car or whatever like its a paper route, sometimes they also handle auspost spillover, unless there was some monumental mistake, they should not have been allowed to deliver, really anything in that order.

Last time i tried ordering from rapidclean they refused, but it was a year or 2 ago, did your order travel interstate?

MrDoctor - 24-3-2025 at 14:34

just mentioning, i managed to order some of the acid from there, thanks vertexrocketry, shipping was surprisingly reasonable, only $60 for a 5L one.
how close do you think the 98% label is? and overall quality? Based on the photos at least it seems like pretty decent stuff.

Bedlasky - 25-3-2025 at 06:50

Speaking of amateur chemistry in Australia...

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2025/mar/21/emman...

Response from local authorithies is exaggerated. What do they think he would do with this? Nuclear bomb? Nuclear reactor? That's pretty complicated stuff, not to mention you need far more plutonium to do it (not to mention you need the right isotopes). 10 years for small piece of plutonium (or rather some plutonium oxide) for collection? That's ridiculous! Murderers and rapers get probation or few years in jail and this totally harmless guy could get 10 years? Something is seriously wrong with laws (not just in Australia, worldwide).

MrDoctor - 26-3-2025 at 05:48

We have a tendency to feed people to the machine here. police give out fines and charges haphazardly because "if they are innocent they have nothing to fear" attitude.

Theres cases of course where people have walked away from 90 year potential sentences too simply because the laws dont reflect current attitude, so on the other hand, common sense can also prevail, and usually does, but only usually.

My guess is that he went over the limit by using the wrong limits. Law is rather difficult to enterpret. theres two seperate documents that currently define the law for distilling ethanol, and one pretty much says its ok while the other says its not, the former is worded so ambiguously it sounds as if a permit, or limitations only apply when making consumable spirits, commercially. The latter is buried deep in a collection of acts and is hard to find without knowing it by name.
I would bet, based on the events that unfolded that he went by the nuclear material USE limits, which themselves require permits which assume things like commercial laboratory, licensing, etc, the permit wouldnt be approved otherwise. theres lower absolute possession limits too that assume no useage, just holding it.

FableP - 26-3-2025 at 17:30

The way the system of radiation regulation in Australia works is that if there are radioactive substances on a site, the site requires a registration. As part of the site registration there is a requirement to have a licensee who is responsible for the radioactive substances. These requirements only apply if your radioactive substance is in excess of the exemption limits which are quite small. For example most school check sources you can buy are just below the exemption limit so schools can hold them without having to worry about registration and licensing.
That is all well and good for low activity sources in Australia, but once you try to import an isotope (regardless of activity) the rules change. There is a permitting system for importation of radioactive goods which is administered by ARPANSA, the Australian Radiation Protection and Nuclear Safety Agency.
If a radioactive source is transported properly it will be identified as such and picked up at Customs on the way into Australia, if there is no ARPANSA permit the source will not be released and they will investigate the importer.
If the source hadn't been transported properly (such as sent in the regular mail) there is every probability that no one would have been the wiser. I saw that happen this week in fact.
In addition to all of this there is the Australian Safeguards and Non-Proliferation Office (ASNO) which will require site registration as well because the material was categorised as "nuclear material" in addition to also being radioactive.
This is likely the point where things went pear shaped for the lad. No permit, no registrations, suspicious isotopes, knee jerk reaction for facebook clicks and more Gov funding.
The application of the law in this case was extremely heavy handed and likely carried out by jackasses on a power trip.
I'm licensed, and look after a registration, we bring in plenty of stuff into Australia without question or drama including heavy metal isotopes. I've got a vial of plutonium nitrate in my store among many weird and wonderful radioactive things, there is so much stuff that my main issue is proper disposal.
That source was nothing more than a curiosity piece.

MrDoctor - 26-3-2025 at 18:55

Quote: Originally posted by FableP

There is a permitting system for importation of radioactive goods which is administered by ARPANSA, the Australian Radiation Protection and Nuclear Safety Agency.
If a radioactive source is transported properly it will be identified as such and picked up at Customs on the way into Australia, if there is no ARPANSA permit the source will not be released and they will investigate the importer.

Yes, that is, perhaps the key thing that occurred there. Otherwise it probably wouldnt have been approved for export. Plus if he had been approved for a permit the news articles would probably mention that key fact.

So, theres no form of plutonium you reckon that is discretely (but legally) importable? small quantities can be possessed for non-use in a collection but, the importation of anything like that which is very easy to misuse, requires a permit, full stop?

Precipitates - 26-3-2025 at 21:56

Perhaps uranium ore (pitchblende)? Of course the plutonium concentration is going to be ridiculously low, and maybe the authorities won't like the import of a uranium mineral either.

Or just go and find some uranium ore. Plenty of uranium mines in Australia. And see if they will arrest you for having a rock

I would probably show a uranium mineral as a source of plutonium - anything more than that is perhaps asking for trouble without the proper permits. Schools will use their sources for education, but individual ownership is much harder to justify. Having a plutonium source just because you want it probably doesn't cut it.

But, if you want to produce your own sample, i.e., DIY plutonium, the following paper details its extraction from ores containing uranium.

Spoiler alert: you're not going to be able to see your sample, but, with the right equipment, you may just be able to detect it.

Attachment: A Study of Naturally Occurring Plutonium.pdf (1.5MB)
This file has been downloaded 222 times

FableP - 27-3-2025 at 18:07

[/rquote]
So, theres no form of plutonium you reckon that is discretely (but legally) importable? small quantities can be possessed for non-use in a collection but, the importation of anything like that which is very easy to misuse, requires a permit, full stop? [/rquote]

This is correct. We have liquid standards of various isotopes that are classified as "nuclear material", the activities are so low as to be considered almost not radioactive, micrograms of material that don't even cross into the kBq range and this still needs import permits and ASNO registration

Some of the Pu sources in long term storage, very old and not used.

[Edited on 28-3-2025 by FableP]

MrDoctor - 27-3-2025 at 20:44

meanwhile my porch is covered in thorium dust as i burn through tig welder electrodes i just buy from bunnings, when i have to do repairs on rusty contaminated steel.

bariumbromate - 27-3-2025 at 21:44

it is 98% sulfuric acid almost no yellowing quite pure for the price

bariumbromate - 27-3-2025 at 21:46

dg just means it is by ground transport only and auspost pays higher insurance.

Precipitates - 4-4-2025 at 06:07

Quote: Originally posted by Precipitates

But, if you want to produce your own sample, i.e., DIY plutonium, the following paper details its extraction from ores containing uranium.

Spoiler alert: you're not going to be able to see your sample, but, with the right equipment, you may just be able to detect it.

Just to add to this, trinitite may be a more viable source. This paper from the 1950's discovered a concentration of more than 2 mg/g in the green and black glass from the explosion:

Attachment: Extraction of plutonium from trinitite.pdf (906kB)
This file has been downloaded 165 times

A billion times more than would occur in uranium ores.

Recent articles have measured the plutonium concentration at less than 1 ppm however:

Attachment: Gamma and Decay Energy Spectroscopy Measurements of Trinitite .pdf (2.1MB)
This file has been downloaded 176 times

It is not suggested that one try to import trinitite (not sure the regulations regarding the import of this substance), or extract any of the plutonium contained within it.

CuriousOnlooker - 23-7-2025 at 06:02

For anyone in Melbourne, I got up 5L of 98% H₂SO₄ for $40.00, pick-up only (Southern suburbs). The only questions were: 1) Had I used it before?, and, 2) Cash or card?
For 68% HNO₃ I had 5L sent from Bosca Chemicals & Cleaning, Qld Bosca . Listed price $97.50, plus DG shipping (No questions).

[Edited on 23-7-2025 by CuriousOnlooker]

MrDoctor - 23-7-2025 at 06:48

check the law in victoria, they got weird a while ago and "banned" all sorts of chemicals by adding them to the poisons schedule, and i dont think hobby use is an accepted use for a poisons license. I know calcium is on there, and probably sodium too, but also toluene in some weird way, and benzene is way up high so i think only labs can have it, period.

today i did see though an online cleaning chem store there was selling 98% sulfuric for a really normal price too, i think its called aurora, the shop.
As always, things vanish, and others surface. xylene i think is replacing toluene a lot now so its really cheap, i think i can buy 20L from somewhere nearby for $80, also loads of ester products are popping up too like "dibasic ester" which is dimethyl glutarate and succinate, i think it replaces some applications of naptha or DCM.

Bosca is a fun place, i once wandered around in their warehouse, there was open containers of nitric acid everywhere, they were decanting the big 200L barrels into smaller 5/20L bottles, just scattered about on the shop floor and i guess stopped for smoko. everything with that bosca label they transfer by hand in that unventilated shed.
i think i bought 5kg of oxalic acid from them, they just filled up a bucket for me on the spot, very oldschool, like an old timy candy shop. I need to go back, one of their cleaners i suspect is like 70% propylene carbonate, and i confirmed, one of the floor cleaners contains ethanolamine, which i need for an atmospheric carbon-capture project.

[Edited on 23-7-2025 by MrDoctor]

CuriousOnlooker - 23-7-2025 at 10:25

Quote: Originally posted by MrDoctor

check the law in victoria, they got weird a while ago and "banned" all sorts of chemicals by adding them to the poisons schedule, and i dont think hobby use is an accepted use for a poisons license. .......
[Edited on 23-7-2025 by MrDoctor]

It must feel nice to be able to wander around a place such as Bosca.
Even better if you can score a much needed item, particularly if the price is right.
It's hard to visualize 200L of nitric. Was that their 68%?

The cleaning company is only <30 minutes drive away from where I am, and looks quite established.
They have the blurb on their website that they'll ask for a drivers licence and so on, because of drug manufactures. That may be enough to scare the 'cooks' away. When I rang them first there were no issues, and even less when I went there. It could also be that I don't look like some dodgy character (I like to think).
I've also had an ABN for a long time which I use if necessary.
Many years ago it was even easier to buy sulphuric, which I used to make chromic acid.

Previously I'd purchased 5L of sulphuric from Bonzer Chemical Supplies , but that entailed freight charges which nearly doubled the cost, as did the nitric from Bosca.

I've used the sulphuric for it's main purposes so my needs aren't as much, although I'm keeping an eye on how much I have left to make sure I can get more if I start getting too low.
For my last project I needed three reagents so bought them all from separate places.
I've been hunting for some ethylene glycol but can only find Diggers Paint Thinners at $33 for 1L. That may be cheap for such an amount but it's something like 20x what I want so I'll use an alternative.

MrDoctor - 23-7-2025 at 23:50

oxalic acid can be hydrogenated/electroreduced to ethylene glycol, if over-reduced as far as it goes. idk if thats helpful for making 20L of the stuff, but oxalic acid is pretty cheap in bulk.
i have a few bottles of old antifreeze, ethylene glycol, i saved from being thrown out, lately ive noticed it has a fair few uses. i havent looked but does automotive coolant not contain it anymore?

CuriousOnlooker - 24-7-2025 at 12:43

Quote: Originally posted by MrDoctor

oxalic acid can be hydrogenated/electroreduced to ethylene glycol, if over-reduced as far as it goes. idk if thats helpful for making 20L of the stuff, but oxalic acid is pretty cheap in bulk.
i have a few bottles of old antifreeze, ethylene glycol, i saved from being thrown out, lately ive noticed it has a fair few uses. i havent looked but does automotive coolant not contain it anymore?

Lost in translation -- I meant that 1000 ml of is 20 x more than I was after. It's in that Diggers product, at ~64% from memory. I also haven't found it anything else. It's also not a priority and there are alternatives

MrDoctor - 14-10-2025 at 17:09

i just noticed, on auschemsource, it says the site is down for maintenance

"This site is down for scheduled maintainence, please check back on 28/07/2025."

i dont think its comming back up. also dont think it was for maintenance lol.

bariumbromate - 14-10-2025 at 21:52

i think i accidentally got them closed down..

i made some flash powder with sodium bromate and sulfur from auschem source when it exploded on my hand and i went to hospital, but before i left the paramedics took a photo of the bag of sulfur with their logo on it

[Edited on 15-10-2025 by bariumbromate]

MrDoctor - 14-10-2025 at 23:56

i would moreso think it would be due to them shipping sulfuric acid, ether, hexane and benzene in glass bottles through normal post, ground-post, through the outback from WA. Ive said this before but, sometimes it doesnt end up being australia post that does the last-mile delivery, not that i think they know or expect to carry something like sulfuric acid which when crushed could auto-ignite the packaging, or diethyl ether that will fume out the van if it leaks, and probably cause a fire and explosion with a proper break.
I also am pretty sure they got in trouble already because they used to sell acetic anhydride and 100% acetic acid

bariumbromate - 15-10-2025 at 01:10

good seller of chems here https://ozcanium.com/collections/all

chempyre235 - 15-10-2025 at 06:08

Quote: Originally posted by MrDoctor

i have a few bottles of old antifreeze, ethylene glycol, i saved from being thrown out, lately ive noticed it has a fair few uses. i havent looked but does automotive coolant not contain it anymore?

I'd think that coolant should still contain ethylene glycol, as there aren't many organic chemicals that have a similar liquid temperature range. At least in the US, it's either ethylene glycol, or a mix of glycol and methanol, for colder temperatures.

Ethylene glycol has a few decent uses. For one, it can be condensed to form the niche aprotic solvent, dioxane. For another, the glycol can undergo a pinacol rearrangement to acetaldehyde. Additionally, it can be condensed with urea with zinc (IIRC) to make ethylene carbonate, another solvent, from which oxalyl chloride can be made.

currawong - 15-10-2025 at 18:38

Coolant definitely still has ethylene glycol in Australia, I purchased 5L of coolant concentrate from Repco that was 1050g/L ethylene glycol for about $30 a month ago. I can agree with MrDoctor's point about Auschemsource though, I purchased 500ml of 25% ammonia from them that was shipped in a glass bottle by regular Australia Post, no DG label. Unfortunately they're probably not coming back, but an excellent source in Sydney I have used for sulfuric acid is Euro Abrasives and Hardware, the acid is clear and as far as I can tell from using it it doesn't have any major contaminants. It's also MUCH cheaper than the Moflo drain cleaner acid https://sydneyhardware.com.au/products/sulfuric-acid?srsltid...

[Edited on 16-10-2025 by currawong]

MrDoctor - 16-10-2025 at 00:13

loads of new stores have popped up, many of the ones that stock sulfuric acid and some spicier chems are located in victoria of all places which last i checked had horribly backwards restrictions on home chemistry, but then again the entire state is a tinderbox, and you could probably rationalize banning alkali metals purely on the fire hazard just having them in your home presents. i swear they must have laws that really only exist in name only, like that machete ban, where almost anything other than "i just have it for the lulz" counts as an exemption, because hobbies basically have equal rights to commercial enterprise now.

sydney solvents doesnt ship it, but they sell 20L units of diethyl ether for $500, id drive down there for that if not for the probability that it would leak like crazy and intoxicate me from the back seat, because theres no way its not going to leak like a mofo from a plastic bottle, and i dont have a ute that could make the distance.

Also i just realized now, with ethylene glycol, what i was thinking about wasnt the active component, it was the fact it didnt have bittering agents mixed into it to dissuade people from drinking it. though propylene glycol formulations do exist. this stuff is undenatured ethylene glycol, minus the pigment, if denaturing is the correct term here.

currawong - 8-1-2026 at 13:42

Quote: Originally posted by bariumbromate

i think i accidentally got them closed down..

i made some flash powder with sodium bromate and sulfur from auschem source when it exploded on my hand and i went to hospital, but before i left the paramedics took a photo of the bag of sulfur with their logo on it

[Edited on 15-10-2025 by bariumbromate]

Looks like Auschemsource is back but with a much more limited range than what they used to have.

palico - 9-1-2026 at 13:45

Dear InFormation,

welcome to this forum. I have no idea about australian regulations, but in place of you, I would limit my chemistry hobby to harmless test.
In a period where everyone is mad for rare earth, as australian hobby chemist I would equip my garage to make colorimetric or other simple qualitative test for element in rocks and minerals. That for sure, also for the infinitesimal quantity of materials needed, would not bother any regulation and any police.

Also being useful for the country and in case becoming rich.

[Edited on 9-1-2026 by palico]

bnull - 10-1-2026 at 02:10

@palico: @InFormation hasn't been here (under that username, that is) since 2012.

@currawong: Talk about limited range--7 items, 3 of them being bottles.