Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Highest VOD binary explosives?

MineMan - 30-5-2019 at 21:34

Hi all. We know that high nitrogen fuels are the best for VOD, such as hydrazine and ammonia mixed with AN..

Question. Ammonia has to low of a boiling point and I can’t find any supplies for hydrazine other than sigma and the such... were have all the medium tiered supplies gone?!

I know, in explosive enegineering Paul cooper lists some other molecules that I have never heard of or been able to gather any information from.

I am looking for VODs above 8000m/s...

Thought of NA mixed with NM but appearently according to ligature VOD is below 7kms, doesn’t seem right.

What are the best available highest VOD fuels?

Microtek - 3-6-2019 at 09:34

Tetranitromethane and toluene in stoichiometric proportions is supposedly very powerful. Hexanitroethane and TNT or tetryl as well.

MineMan - 3-6-2019 at 22:18

Quote: Originally posted by Microtek  
Tetranitromethane and toluene in stoichiometric proportions is supposedly very powerful. Hexanitroethane and TNT or tetryl as well.


Tetranitromethane looks extremely toxic. I. Was hoping to use this for a very niche industrial product. But I need extreme VOD.

Now Hexanitroethane. That looks good. Any ideas on what the synth is like? Looks promising but for industrial use probably too expensive. Ahhh. Why

Dornier 335A - 4-6-2019 at 00:56

Two liquids, one oxidizer and one fuel, is a good way to get an intimate mixture and near ideal performance.
Tetranitromethane is very very toxic but combinations with any flammable liquid has VoD of at least 7000 m/s. Dense liquid fuels are of course best and TNM/nitromethane has the highest VoD I've calculated so far at 7990 m/s.

RFNA has lower density and mixtures have VoD below 7500 m/s. I calculate RFNA/NM to 6740 m/s and RFNA/nitrobenzene to 7350 m/s.

There are a few high density oxidizers that can be combined with either solid or liquid fuels (or OB negative explosives) to give outstanding performance. Getting an intimate mixture is more difficult of course.
Hexanitroethane (https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=68...) has OB +43% and density ~1.88 g/cc and can be combined with for example DNT to reach 9050 m/s, tetryl (9140 m/s) or benzotrifuroxan (9770 m/s).

Bis(trinitroethyl)nitramine, BTNENA is another one with better density (1.95 g/cc) but worse OB (+16.5%). An OB mixture with benzotrifuroxan reaches 9800 m/s! Both BTNENA and BTF perform like HMX on their own though...

Ammonium dinitramide is also a good one, with +26% OB and pretty good density (1.81 g/cc) but I don't know if mixtures with ADN behave like an ideal explosive (thin reaction zone behind the shock wave). Assuming it does, ADN/fuel oil reaches 8000 m/s and combinations with nitroaromatics adds a few hundred m/s to that figure.



MineMan - 4-6-2019 at 21:35

Great answer dornier!! It does seem however that hydrazine and AN would be the cheapest, safest and least exotic? Paul cooper mentions AN with other high nitrogen fuels such as ammonia can reach very high levels... only issue with ammonia is the boiling point... any way to make this a none issue? Maybe in a pressurized container it wouldn’t be so bad? It sure would be cheap.

Any VODs for ammonia and AN or ammonia and H2O2?

Dornier 335A - 7-6-2019 at 14:21

Alright here are some calculated values:
ANFO (94/6) at 0.88 g/cc: 4690 m/s. Measured VoD extrapolated to infinite diameter is 4800 m/s so good agreement.
AN/hydrazine hydrate (76/24) at 0.88 g/cc: 4640 m/s, at 1.2 g/cc: 5600 m/s
AN/32% ammonia solution (69/31) at 0.88 g/cc: 4180 m/s, at 1.2 g/cc: 4970 m/s

The conclusion I draw from these figures is that fuel oil is a better fuel at a given density. But since ANFO is very non-ideal, it has to be used at a low density (0.88 g/cc in this case) and that limits the VoD severely. In fact, increasing density beyond some point decreases VoD! If for example hydrazine gives a more ideal mixture, it can be used at higher density and thus higher performance.

Adding ammonia solution to concentrated H2O2 only lowers its VoD (which is 6150 m/s) according to my program.

MineMan - 7-6-2019 at 14:45

Dornier! Thank you!

I have read that hydrazine an AN reaches 8600m/s. Unless this value is false and is just misquoted often...

I should mention by binary I mean any amount of ingredients mixable, not just two.

Do you know of any other high nitrogen super fuels?

Vomaturge - 7-6-2019 at 23:44

According to Wikipedia, astrolite is liquid, meaning it should have high density and uniform mixing. That together with the exothermic decomposition of hydrazine, could explain the high velocity. As far as the ammonia, a kilo of AN can dissolve in roughly 300 gms of anhydrous ammonia, depending on temperature. So roughly half the AN would be dissolved in an anhydrous ammonia binary. Also, ammonium perchlorate is supposed to form "ammoniates" (like hydrates, I guess?) with 2 to 6 mols NH3 per mol of NH4ClO4. Not likely to be the fastest, but it would still be good to know if NH4ClO4.2(NH3) was explosive, and if so what velocity.

Hmm. I wonder if you could make ammonia gas dissolve into high test peroxide without it just reacting.

Edit: the higher the temperature, the less ammonia is needed to dissolve a given amount of AN. But above about 23-26C, the ammonia was 'boiled' out of the mixture at atmospheric pressure .
Also, a mixture of liquid oxygen and propane should produce about 8.6kj/gm of heat. Unfortunately, the melting point of propane is very close to the boiling point of oxygen, and the two are only sparingly soluble
Attachment: divers1873.pdf (1.6MB)
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[Edited on 8-6-2019 by Vomaturge]

Attachment: Extendedabstract_AIChE2007_Houssin.pdf (919kB)
This file has been downloaded 497 times

MineMan - 8-6-2019 at 22:27

Quote: Originally posted by Vomaturge  
According to Wikipedia, astrolite is liquid, meaning it should have high density and uniform mixing. That together with the exothermic decomposition of hydrazine, could explain the high velocity. As far as the ammonia, a kilo of AN can dissolve in roughly 300 gms of anhydrous ammonia, depending on temperature. So roughly half the AN would be dissolved in an anhydrous ammonia binary. Also, ammonium perchlorate is supposed to form "ammoniates" (like hydrates, I guess?) with 2 to 6 mols NH3 per mol of NH4ClO4. Not likely to be the fastest, but it would still be good to know if NH4ClO4.2(NH3) was explosive, and if so what velocity.

Hmm. I wonder if you could make ammonia gas dissolve into high test peroxide without it just reacting.

Edit: the higher the temperature, the less ammonia is needed to dissolve a given amount of AN. But above about 23-26C, the ammonia was 'boiled' out of the mixture at atmospheric pressure .
Also, a mixture of liquid oxygen and propane should produce about 8.6kj/gm of heat. Unfortunately, the melting point of propane is very close to the boiling point of oxygen, and the two are only sparingly soluble



[Edited on 8-6-2019 by Vomaturge]


This is excellent information! I suspect AP mixed with ammonia or hydrazine is very fast. Any ideas to get around the pesky boiling point...? Meaning we can’t have liquid ammonia at 15C... correct?

XeonTheMGPony - 9-6-2019 at 06:26

ammonia boils at apx -30c+- at sea level in open atmosphere

Vomaturge - 9-6-2019 at 08:37

If I understood the 1873 paper, and the Wikipedia article that made me search for it, ammonia in AN solution is less volatile, similar to what happens when you absorb it in water. It can be made by blowing gaseous ammonia into AN powder. Divers' solution loses ammonia rapidly at room temperature, but it's vapor pressure isn't a full atmosphere until 23-26C. So on a cool day, you could store it in an airtight bottle or bag, without requiring any high pressure vessels. The problem would be how to uniformly mix the solution with the extra AN needed to get a useable fuel-oxidizer ratio. I'm curious how much AN you could dissolve in anhydrous ammonia at say 50C and elevated pressure.

According to that table from Wikipedia, lithium nitrate should make a stoichiometric solution with ammonia, but lithium is far too rare and expensive to burn for some mundane pyrotechnic.

As far as the AP ammoniates, the stoichiometric ratio is 3(NH4ClO4).5(NH3) so NH4ClO4.(2NH3) isn't all that far off. I still don't know if these "ammoniates" are solid, liquid, sea level&room temp, high pressure, high temp, or cryogenic. I guess it's time for more online research.

Also, I don't know how much ammonia's nitrogen content helps it as a fuel. After all, it takes energy to break it into hydrogen and nitrogen. If AN and ammonia is a powerful combination, I'd more likely attribute that to ~50% of the oxidizer being in solution, and the rest being a solid suspended in the solution. Imagine making tannerite or gunpowder or something, but all the fuel and half the oxidizer has been ground into individual molecules, less than a nanometer across.

MineMan - 9-6-2019 at 09:14

Quote: Originally posted by Vomaturge  
If I understood the 1873 paper, and the Wikipedia article that made me search for it, ammonia in AN solution is less volatile, similar to what happens when you absorb it in water. It can be made by blowing gaseous ammonia into AN powder. Divers' solution loses ammonia rapidly at room temperature, but it's vapor pressure isn't a full atmosphere until 23-26C. So on a cool day, you could store it in an airtight bottle or bag, without requiring any high pressure vessels. The problem would be how to uniformly mix the solution with the extra AN needed to get a useable fuel-oxidizer ratio. I'm curious how much AN you could dissolve in anhydrous ammonia at say 50C and elevated pressure.

According to that table from Wikipedia, lithium nitrate should make a stoichiometric solution with ammonia, but lithium is far too rare and expensive to burn for some mundane pyrotechnic.

As far as the AP ammoniates, the stoichiometric ratio is 3(NH4ClO4).5(NH3) so NH4ClO4.(2NH3) isn't all that far off. I still don't know if these "ammoniates" are solid, liquid, sea level&room temp, high pressure, high temp, or cryogenic. I guess it's time for more online research.

Also, I don't know how much ammonia's nitrogen content helps it as a fuel. After all, it takes energy to break it into hydrogen and nitrogen. If AN and ammonia is a powerful combination, I'd more likely attribute that to ~50% of the oxidizer being in solution, and the rest being a solid suspended in the solution. Imagine making tannerite or gunpowder or something, but all the fuel and half the oxidizer has been ground into individual molecules, less than a nanometer across.


That’s what makes emulsions, so fast. Small sticks under a pound shoot at 6000m/s with just diesel, AN, water and micro balloons to reduce the density. This, however would be at full density. According to Paul Cooper AN/NH3 is somewhat similar to astrolite (AN/hydrazine).

My question, is there a better fuel? From my research out of all of the inorganic high weight nirtrogen dominant molecules hydrazine and ammonia are the most available and least exotic?

Philou mentioned a while back what he referred to as super fuels, which were carbon and nitrogen molecules, but I do not know chemistry enough to even know what this class is called?

AN with hydrazine or NH3 should be at a higher density than all other AN mixtures. Emulsions shoot at 6000m/s with densities in the 1.2 range. So. With AN and ammonia, the density being 1.5-1.6... I think it would be very fast... and without carbon the detonation products would be light....

Damn. If only we had access to borohydrides or siliconhydrides. Now that would be a super fuel...

Σldritch - 9-6-2019 at 09:51

I would guess nitramide mixed with some reducing agent would have a higher VOD than any equivalent AN mixture as it has one less water molecule. Nitramide and hydrazine ought to be quite powerful.

Laboratory of Liptakov - 9-6-2019 at 11:03

Best from all is here above described is AN - emulsions. But are here 2 main problems. Necessary special device : High-shear rotating head. (expensive machine) And quality emulgator PIBSA (unavailable)....:cool:

MineMan - 9-6-2019 at 18:00

Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov  
Best from all is here above described is AN - emulsions. But are here 2 main problems. Necessary special device : High-shear rotating head. (expensive machine) And quality emulgator PIBSA (unavailable)....:cool:


Right... however there are water soluable fuels. I am thinking instead of water 30 percent ammonia hydroxide should be use... then a water soluable fuel such as ethylene glycol. But. Best of all would be hydrazine. LL. With hydrazine we are talking 8600m/s with AN... as you say, beauty in simplicity :)

The big question is does one need 100 percent hydrazine or does 64 percent due? What about hydrazine sulfate dissolved in ammonia hydroxide??

Laboratory of Liptakov - 12-6-2019 at 10:26

100% hydrazine is unstable. But hydrazine sulfate dissolved in ammonia hydroxide (30%?) is interesting idea. With AN + ethylene glycol, of course. Near stechiometric ratio.
(Mad mixture-.........:D).......:cool:

caterpillar - 12-6-2019 at 16:54

Who knows what is the VoD of NCl3?

MineMan - 13-6-2019 at 23:11

Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov  
100% hydrazine is unstable. But hydrazine sulfate dissolved in ammonia hydroxide (30%?) is interesting idea. With AN + ethylene glycol, of course. Near stechiometric ratio.
(Mad mixture-.........:D).......:cool:


Want to give it a try LL?!

Laboratory of Liptakov - 14-6-2019 at 02:43

I have not hydrazine or his sulfate = no testing.......Thanks for asking....:cool:

underground - 14-6-2019 at 04:16

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCovDr4FVNQ

XeonTheMGPony - 14-6-2019 at 04:42

Quote: Originally posted by underground  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCovDr4FVNQ


I'm getting sick of this reaction, been doing a crap load of batches to build up a stock of it, need to just run it swimming pool sized batch!

underground - 14-6-2019 at 04:57

Quote: Originally posted by XeonTheMGPony  
Quote: Originally posted by underground  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCovDr4FVNQ


I'm getting sick of this reaction, been doing a crap load of batches to build up a stock of it, need to just run it swimming pool sized batch!


He looks to got not that bad yields on his video. Here another video with almost the same procedure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0fiKkREk4g

You may miss something

[Edited on 14-6-2019 by underground]

Laboratory of Liptakov - 14-6-2019 at 05:43

A two component field mix explosive composition comprising a first solid component comprising ammonium nitrate or mixtures of ammonium nitrate with ammonium perchlorate, and a second liquid component comprising as a first ingredient hydrazine, a second ingredient which is water, alcohol or a mixture thereof, and as a third ingredient ammonium nitrate in an amount no greater than about one-sixth of the total weight of the second component. At the site of use the liquid component is poured into the solid component to form an explosive composition. This composition is detonable in elongate packages as small as one inch in diameter, by use of a blasting cap.....Source:..... http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4042431.html

C6(NO2)5CH2CH(CH3)N(NO2)2 - 14-6-2019 at 08:54

I find the idea of a High-performance binary very interesting. Basically, nitric acid is an oxidizer in its own right, and has been used as such in rockets. When you chemically combine it into something like picric acid or PETN, only some of that oxidizing capability is transferred into the compound. It would be much more cost effective if you could just combine nitrates or other oxidizers with a fuel, without any wasteful chemical reaction. The central problem is getting enough oxidizer dissolved into a fuel. Unless the reactants can dissolve, not all of the reaction will happen at the shock front. Take ammonal, for example. If you could a) get all the aluminum to react at the shock front, and b) compact it to it's theoretical density (AN~2.5g/cc, Al~2.7g/cc) you would have a composition that would likely exceed 10 km/sec. But because the aluminum does not react immediately, you will never get anywhere near those velocities.

Making a solution of a fuel and oxidizer will enable the reaction to happen much more rapidly, but the fuel has to have high energy and low oxygen requirements too. Water-based solutions of hydrazine, glycol etc will have too low of energy. Methanol will dissolve a near-ideal amount of calcium nitrate, but only when near it's boiling point. Anhydrous, or near-anhydrous hydrazine is probably one of the few fuels which can hope to exceed 8 km/sec.

By the way, this paper:https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjCstSns-niAhXuGDQIHeLK DlAQFjAAegQIAxAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fciteseerx.ist.psu.edu%2Fviewdoc%2Fdownload%3Fdoi%3D10.1.1.575.4948%26rep%3Drep1%26type%3Dpdf&usg=AOvVaw10C1o d3DL667lmjYr5sRqa
mentions an effective emulsion with 77.66% AN, 4.68% NaN, 11.22%H2O, and 5.4% wax fuel. How can that little water dissolve that much AN at room temperature?

MineMan - 14-6-2019 at 15:04

Quote: Originally posted by C6(NO2)5CH2CH(CH3)N(NO2)2  
I find the idea of a High-performance binary very interesting. Basically, nitric acid is an oxidizer in its own right, and has been used as such in rockets. When you chemically combine it into something like picric acid or PETN, only some of that oxidizing capability is transferred into the compound. It would be much more cost effective if you could just combine nitrates or other oxidizers with a fuel, without any wasteful chemical reaction. The central problem is getting enough oxidizer dissolved into a fuel. Unless the reactants can dissolve, not all of the reaction will happen at the shock front. Take ammonal, for example. If you could a) get all the aluminum to react at the shock front, and b) compact it to it's theoretical density (AN~2.5g/cc, Al~2.7g/cc) you would have a composition that would likely exceed 10 km/sec. But because the aluminum does not react immediately, you will never get anywhere near those velocities.

Making a solution of a fuel and oxidizer will enable the reaction to happen much more rapidly, but the fuel has to have high energy and low oxygen requirements too. Water-based solutions of hydrazine, glycol etc will have too low of energy. Methanol will dissolve a near-ideal amount of calcium nitrate, but only when near it's boiling point. Anhydrous, or near-anhydrous hydrazine is probably one of the few fuels which can hope to exceed 8 km/sec.

By the way, this paper:https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjCstSns-niAhXuGDQIHeLK DlAQFjAAegQIAxAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fciteseerx.ist.psu.edu%2Fviewdoc%2Fdownload%3Fdoi%3D10.1.1.575.4948%26rep%3Drep1%26type%3Dpdf&usg=AOvVaw10C1o d3DL667lmjYr5sRqa
mentions an effective emulsion with 77.66% AN, 4.68% NaN, 11.22%H2O, and 5.4% wax fuel. How can that little water dissolve that much AN at room temperature?


AN has a density of 1.7... emulsions usually top out at 1.2, they need microballons to detonate.

Emulsions are not made at room tempature. When we load holes for mining it comes out very hot.

XeonTheMGPony - 14-6-2019 at 19:29

Quote: Originally posted by underground  
Quote: Originally posted by XeonTheMGPony  
Quote: Originally posted by underground  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCovDr4FVNQ


I'm getting sick of this reaction, been doing a crap load of batches to build up a stock of it, need to just run it swimming pool sized batch!


He looks to got not that bad yields on his video. Here another video with almost the same procedure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0fiKkREk4g

You may miss something

[Edited on 14-6-2019 by underground]


Key word "Looks" it is low yielding to start with and can be finicky.

MineMan - 14-6-2019 at 20:37

Anyways. Has anyone actually made astrolite? It is reportedly still used, and was quite popular. Can’t be that bad!? I say we are risk adverse these days.

An Altered State of Matter

C6(NO2)5CH2CH(CH3)N(NO2)2 - 27-6-2019 at 15:13

Quote: Originally posted by MineMan  
Emulsions are not made at room tempature. When we load holes for mining it comes out very hot.


I know this discussion is dead, sorry I couldn't reply sooner, but THIS is the secret to emulsion's success, and the reason mining isn't done with solutions of polar fuels and AN. Your quote is backed up by one from this paper: https://www.mt.com/us/en/home/supportive_content/matchar_app...
Quote:
In the emulsion, the aqueous phase consists of a supersaturated solution of ammonium nitrate (AN), which is metastable due to supersaturation.


Whoever came up with this is just genius. AN is normally solid at 100C, but just a trace of water will dissolve it at that temperature. At 100C, saturated AN solution has all the liquid properties which allow it to be emulsified in submicron particles, while still being "dry" enough (~10% water by weight)to detonate. It's a great application for the steep solubility curve of AN. But that's not the clever part.

Because the droplets of AN solution are in the dispersed phase, separated by oil films, one of the droplets crystalizing will not trigger others. So AN that would otherwise only look slightly damp at room temperature, acts like a liquid oxidizer instead. The very act of making it into a water-in-oil emulsion is what lets you have such a concentrated AN solution at room temperature.

As cool as this is, it's not encouraging for the idea of solution based binaries. Maybe an extremely concentrated solution of 75:25 calcium nitrate:methanol, or 76:13:11 AN:sugar:water, would be explosive near its boiling point, but as soon as it cools down, it will crystallize again. I was hoping there was some way to get AN to stay liquid at room temperature with just a touch of water (or other solvent) and no emulsification, but the reality is it's just not that easy. The way I see it, Astrolite gets over this hurdle by not having to get near oxygen balence. Wikipedia says liquid astrolite is 1 part hydrazine to two of AN, the stoichiometric amount is 1:5. Although hydrazine is not detonatable by itself, it's decomposition is still very energetic without an oxidizer. This gives the mixture good performance inspite of not having nearly enough oxidizer.

Unfortunately, anhydrous hydrazine is far more expensive toxic and hard to obtain than a simple fuel like diesel, alcohol, or even anhydrous ammonia. Does anyone else have ideas for a cheap oxidizer that's highly soluble in a combustible solvent? Probably more trouble than it's worth (toxic and requires high pressure, and high molecular weight/low oxidizing properties) but would any normal fuels dissolve in liquid compressed Cl2 or N2O without reacting at room temperature?

[Edited on 27-6-2019 by C6(NO2)5CH2CH(CH3)N(NO2)2]

wessonsmith - 27-6-2019 at 15:36

Quote: Originally posted by MineMan  
Quote: Originally posted by C6(NO2)5CH2CH(CH3)N(NO2)2  
I find the idea of a High-performance binary very interesting. Basically, nitric acid is an oxidizer in its own right, and has been used as such in rockets. When you chemically combine it into something like picric acid or PETN, only some of that oxidizing capability is transferred into the compound. It would be much more cost effective if you could just combine nitrates or other oxidizers with a fuel, without any wasteful chemical reaction. The central problem is getting enough oxidizer dissolved into a fuel. Unless the reactants can dissolve, not all of the reaction will happen at the shock front. Take ammonal, for example. If you could a) get all the aluminum to react at the shock front, and b) compact it to it's theoretical density (AN~2.5g/cc, Al~2.7g/cc) you would have a composition that would likely exceed 10 km/sec. But because the aluminum does not react immediately, you will never get anywhere near those velocities.

Making a solution of a fuel and oxidizer will enable the reaction to happen much more rapidly, but the fuel has to have high energy and low oxygen requirements too. Water-based solutions of hydrazine, glycol etc will have too low of energy. Methanol will dissolve a near-ideal amount of calcium nitrate, but only when near it's boiling point. Anhydrous, or near-anhydrous hydrazine is probably one of the few fuels which can hope to exceed 8 km/sec.

By the way, this paper:https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjCstSns-niAhXuGDQIHeLK DlAQFjAAegQIAxAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fciteseerx.ist.psu.edu%2Fviewdoc%2Fdownload%3Fdoi%3D10.1.1.575.4948%26rep%3Drep1%26type%3Dpdf&usg=AOvVaw10C1o d3DL667lmjYr5sRqa
mentions an effective emulsion with 77.66% AN, 4.68% NaN, 11.22%H2O, and 5.4% wax fuel. How can that little water dissolve that much AN at room temperature?


AN has a density of 1.7... emulsions usually top out at 1.2, they need microballons to detonate.

Emulsions are not made at room tempature. When we load holes for mining it comes out very hot.


When I first staring messing with energetics I made some emulsions and slurries senstized with ETN. This was a good paper on the different mixtures and there power specs. I liked Slurry I. Great way to strecth out the ETN by using AN and Urea.:)

http://www.wydawnictwa.ipo.waw.pl/cejem/vol-10-03-2013/Kunze...

MineMan - 27-6-2019 at 18:45

Quote: Originally posted by C6(NO2)5CH2CH(CH3)N(NO2)2  
Quote: Originally posted by MineMan  
Emulsions are not made at room tempature. When we load holes for mining it comes out very hot.


I know this discussion is dead, sorry I couldn't reply sooner, but THIS is the secret to emulsion's success, and the reason mining isn't done with solutions of polar fuels and AN. Your quote is backed up by one from this paper: https://www.mt.com/us/en/home/supportive_content/matchar_app...
Quote:
In the emulsion, the aqueous phase consists of a supersaturated solution of ammonium nitrate (AN), which is metastable due to supersaturation.


Whoever came up with this is just genius. AN is normally solid at 100C, but just a trace of water will dissolve it at that temperature. At 100C, saturated AN solution has all the liquid properties which allow it to be emulsified in submicron particles, while still being "dry" enough (~10% water by weight)to detonate. It's a great application for the steep solubility curve of AN. But that's not the clever part.

Because the droplets of AN solution are in the dispersed phase, separated by oil films, one of the droplets crystalizing will not trigger others. So AN that would otherwise only look slightly damp at room temperature, acts like a liquid oxidizer instead. The very act of making it into a water-in-oil emulsion is what lets you have such a concentrated AN solution at room temperature.

As cool as this is, it's not encouraging for the idea of solution based binaries. Maybe an extremely concentrated solution of 75:25 calcium nitrate:methanol, or 76:13:11 AN:sugar:water, would be explosive near its boiling point, but as soon as it cools down, it will crystallize again. I was hoping there was some way to get AN to stay liquid at room temperature with just a touch of water (or other solvent) and no emulsification, but the reality is it's just not that easy. The way I see it, Astrolite gets over this hurdle by not having to get near oxygen balence. Wikipedia says liquid astrolite is 1 part hydrazine to two of AN, the stoichiometric amount is 1:5. Although hydrazine is not detonatable by itself, it's decomposition is still very energetic without an oxidizer. This gives the mixture good performance inspite of not having nearly enough oxidizer.

Unfortunately, anhydrous hydrazine is far more expensive toxic and hard to obtain than a simple fuel like diesel, alcohol, or even anhydrous ammonia. Does anyone else have ideas for a cheap oxidizer that's highly soluble in a combustible solvent? Probably more trouble than it's worth (toxic and requires high pressure, and high molecular weight/low oxidizing properties) but would any normal fuels dissolve in liquid compressed Cl2 or N2O without reacting at room temperature?

[Edited on 27-6-2019 by C6(NO2)5CH2CH(CH3)N(NO2)2]


Well for hydrazine there are benefits of not having the material be oxygen balence, which is the low molecular weight of hydrogen gas...

Anyways. Are you sure the 2:1 is not balanced because the hydrogen only needs to be oxidized.

Laboratory of Liptakov - 5-7-2019 at 11:23

After reading all above I recall the binary composition of NaClO4 + diethylene glycol (+ 8 -12% water). Which is uneconomical in industry but is totally reliable from No.8 on a diameter of 15mm. VoD 3000 - 7000 by diameter.
For someone can be both compounds more available than hydrazine or else described compounds....:cool:.....LL

Vomaturge - 17-12-2020 at 18:42

Quote:

[Quote]While a saturated solution contains about 75 weight percent ammonium perchlorate, solutions containing larger weight percentages of ammonium perchlorate can be prepared. For example, stoichiometric solutions which contain about 80 weight percent ammonium perchlorate and 20 weight percent ammonia can be prepared...

Saturated ammonium perchlorate-ammonium solutions and those that are less than saturated may be stored indefinitely without deterioration. They exhibit a vapor pressure of approximately 1 atmosphere at 20° C. and 50 psia at 165° F...

saturated ammonium perchlorate-ammonia produces up to a 10% lower impetus that the n-octane-nitric acid bipropellants. However, it also produces a substantially lower chamber temperature.


Okay, so I was looking at something totally different (actually a made up phrase on Urban Dictionary) and I stumbled across this which led promptly to this.

i'm not saying this would go high order, but there ya go... a completely liquid stoichiometric solution of a good oxidizer and a decent fuel "can be prepared." That 20% anhydrous ammonia content gives the mixture a lower heating value of 3.7kj/gm. The perchlorate's decomposition and auto-oxidation will contribute another 1160 j/gm (after subtracting the water's latent heat of evaporation) to that, for an energy content of ~4.86kj/gm, comparable to trinitrotoluene, and according to Wikipedia, over 25% more energetic than hydrazine nitrate. HN runs about 5500m/sec at 1.4kg/l, but increases to an impressive 8900m/sec at 1.68. I can't find anything on the density of the ammonia/perchlorate solution, but if we assume the volume of the solution is equal to the crystal volume of AP and the liquid volume of anhydrous NH3, we're looking at a bulk density at around 1.4kg/L. And this is with the sole products being N2 HCl and H2O, and a complete homogeneous solution so the reaction should proceed roughly as fast as for a molecular EM.

Just thought I'd share that. We had some speculation on whether an ammonium perchlorate anhydrous ammonia solution could work as a binary HE, and it looks like at very least it's a verified monopropellant.

[Edited on 18-12-2020 by Vomaturge]

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