Sciencemadness Discussion Board - What the Hell Happened to the Picric Acid Thread?

Controlling The Narrative done by the Ministry of Truth

is a necessary prophylaxis and truth countermeasure to ensure and preserve a
socially acceptable "safe space" devoid of any group think utopian malcontents.

That sanctuary is a virtual reality / no free speech / thought crime free zone.

It is doubleplusgood for snowflakes who cannot endure their delicate sensibilities
being "offended" by unvarnished politically incorrect fact based truth.

Rosco, did you just put a page of the New York Times into the blender? I can't tell what the hell you are saying.

In any case, no moderator malice or conspiracy here. The only accounts I have disabled recently were from a troll attempting to blanket the board with transgender propaganda and dangerous procedures for self-administered castration.

Vomaturge - 2-9-2019 at 17:37

I made a similar reference in the thread at Forum Matters, about member picnic acid's account and posts being "vaporised and forgotten 1984 style" but removed that part after realizing we don't yet have proof that this is new moderator policy, and if it isn't, we need the mods' help to fix it.

My reason for doubting it's intentional is because the original poster whose whole account disappeared was barely involved in the "controversial" parts of the topic. I see no reason why jsum_1 or anyone else would have targeted him specifically.

My bet's* are on either some accident or software malfunction, or possibly a member doing something screwy with the spam deletion code, and targeting picnic because his newer account would be easier to delete.

*Now, ask me how much money I'm betting.

Edit: just saw j_sum1's posts. Glad to know we don't have a new policy like that. VERY worried that accounts are disappearing, whyever it happens.

[Edited on 3-9-2019 by Vomaturge]

new edit: I think it might make sense to turn off all the spam scripts, let the forum overflow with spam and save the old content (i.e.everything posted prior to today) for addition once we transition to better software, even if that's in several years. It might be better for everybody to be unable to post, than have glitches which randomly delete the content which we have accrued since 2002.

Man, I wish Polverone could be here to make the switch. I know he's probably got plenty of important real life stuff to do, and I know I'd be missing basically all the time if I were a mod

[Edited on 3-9-2019 by Vomaturge]

Rosco Bodine - 2-9-2019 at 19:45

Quote:

Rosco, did you just put a page of the New York Times into the blender? I can't tell what the hell you are saying.

Oh no, NOT that Big Apple edition TASS / Pravda propaganda rag.
That brainwashing red commie / dhimmicrat rag is Fake News.

Commies are everywhere, there is probably one under my bed.

But no worries when the greatest patriotic American president and greatest world leader ever is on the job.

The U.S. isn't going to become another stinking commie Cuba or Venezuela.

Quote:

In any case, no moderator malice or conspiracy here. The only accounts I have disabled recently were from a troll attempting to blanket the board with transgender propaganda and dangerous procedures for self-administered castration.

Great to hear it there are no "thought criminals" due to be exiled for conveying "wrongheaded" ideas that aren't global warming alarmist group-think compliant. If karma is a bitch was she a natural born anatomically correct bitch or is she a transgender phony female knockoff bitch? Inquiring minds want to know.

It is a loss to "disappear" years long good reference contributors like franklyn because many of his prescient intellectual analyses, opinions, and predictions run counter to a preferred different sort of narrative. It worried me that franklyn was banned from posting but then it was denied he was banned.

j_sum1 - 2-9-2019 at 20:00

It is a loss to "disappear" years long good reference contributors like franklyn because many of his prescient intellectual analyses, opinions, and predictions run counter to a preferred different sort of narrative. It worried me that franklyn was banned from posting but then it was denied he was banned.

Give it a rest already, Rosco. I know you are a strong advocate for franklyn. But he is absent from here of his own volition. No ban is in place. He was never kicked off.

j_sum1 - 2-9-2019 at 20:17

Quote: Originally posted by Vomaturge

Edit: just saw j_sum1's posts. Glad to know we don't have a new policy like that. VERY worried that accounts are disappearing, whyever it happens.

[Edited on 3-9-2019 by Vomaturge]

new edit: I think it might make sense to turn off all the spam scripts, let the forum overflow with spam and save the old content (i.e.everything posted prior to today) for addition once we transition to better software, even if that's in several years. It might be better for everybody to be unable to post, than have glitches which randomly delete the content which we have accrued since 2002.

Man, I wish Polverone could be here to make the switch. I know he's probably got plenty of important real life stuff to do, and I know I'd be missing basically all the time if I were a mod

[Edited on 3-9-2019 by Vomaturge]

I tried to reply to your U2U a couple of times, Vomaturge. System would not let me. So, bugs are not limited to just one area.
For the record, Melgar's script has not been running for a long time. The majority of spam accounts are blocked before anything even gets posted. I am not sure if there are any other scripts running at all. Spam levels are actually quite low.

I would love for Polverone to be more active or to pass the baton onto someone else who could organise the migration to a new platform. I would even front up some money to make it possible as would many other members I am sure. I would love to know the back-story as to why he has been unable to be around. I only hope that he is ok.

In the meantime we just have to work with what we have got. If we had to do a switch without Polverone we would lose a batch of posts since the last backup as well as all U2Us and all login info. Currently active members could recreate their passwords but we would lose all historical members or else leave a backdoor of thousands of old accounts for spammers to exploit. It just isn't an option.

Rosco Bodine - 2-9-2019 at 20:37

Give it a rest already, Rosco. I know you are a strong advocate for franklyn. But he is absent from here of his own volition. No ban is in place. He was never kicked off.

I think I should invite franklyn to loan me his login password so I can do a test post and confirm this....you know a sort of trust but verify kind of thing. I'll know by the reply what is true. Analysis is something I do understand very well, even "systems analysis", so little things like this are very easy for me to evaluate and make a conclusive determination who is feeding me a load of bullshit.

j_sum1 - 2-9-2019 at 20:55

No sock-puppetry or password indiscretions required.
If you have contact with franklyn, simply ask him if he can log in. If he does not want to try then that is his business.

Rosco Bodine - 2-9-2019 at 21:06

No sock-puppetry involved ....just a simple test. The issue is not whether or not a login is possible because it is already known that a login alone does not allow posting outside of U2U. Been there, done that. I already know that franklyn can login, and that being able to login was NEVER the issue, but posting was, because I have experienced that also.

The circles you are talking around the issue already gives me a good idea who is credible.

j_sum1 - 2-9-2019 at 21:16

<rolleyes>
If he can log on, great. The settings indicate that he has posting privileges and U2U privileges. If He wants to exercise these, great. There is nothing prohibiting him from doing so.
If You want to post using his account then that would be a security breach. That is not something we can endorse and he should not be handing out his passwords.

There is no talking in circles here.
It would be dumb to be posting from his account when he himself does not want to. That would be an invitation for a mod to lock his account.

End of discussion on franklyn in this thread. This is already way off topic.

teodor - 2-9-2019 at 23:00

Men, I really don't understand what are you talking about , who is Franklyn and why this is important for the Picric acid thread. Not sure I can know all the traditions (I can't) but just want to say that there is a thread already on this forum about Picric Acid without sulphuric acid created few years earlier, so at least those people who enter the forum to read about the topic and don't see the new thread now can still get the info there. Even my passage about candy from salt was already here, somebody said it. Well, sorry for interruption.

j_sum1 - 2-9-2019 at 23:25

@teodor
franklyn was a long-standing member and Rosco's friend.
At one point he became upset (apparently) with what was happening here and left.

This thread was started because overnight a thread (that had started to become derailed by political barbs) was deleted along with one of the major contributors to that thread. The suggestion was made that the mods were unfairly targeting someone and were censuring things they did not agree with.

I have dropped in to bring whatever clarification I can to the case of the missing thread and member. franklyn is a side-issue.

So, no traditions. Just history.

hissingnoise - 3-9-2019 at 00:54

So OK, it just kinda looked suspicious that when things got a bit exothermic the entire thread deflagrated like HMTD with not a single molecule of residue to be seen?

When can we see the thread back on the board, guys?

hissingnoise - 3-9-2019 at 01:24

Unfortunately, I may have cut back on the merriment for a few days because I have other shit to do, like catching up on an ongoing fairly difficult hobby, kind of a mixture of science, art and arm-chancing, (just 'cos I'm 71 doesn't mean I have to sit around twiddling my thumbs allday?) the conduct of which is still frowned upon in many quarters...

Equatorial sativas, though notoriously difficult to grow to full maturity, are well worth the bit of effort and perseverance required.

And there's all kinds of great strains hidden in Old Timer's Haze ─ Acapulco Gold, Colombian Black, Cypress Thai and many other greats.

Couch-lock Skunk is too easy, is pure shit and stinks to 'high fucking heaven'!

[Edited on 3-9-2019 by hissingnoise]

Herr Haber - 3-9-2019 at 03:36

This 30+ page thread was full of interesting information and ideas.
Retrieving it is not optional in my opinion.

hissingnoise - 3-9-2019 at 03:47

Yeah, and it'll be interesting to see if they 'chicken out' by deleting the more, er, rambunctious asides...?

j_sum1 - 3-9-2019 at 03:59

What are you guys on about? Just how do you suppose I or any of the other active mods resurrect a deleted thread?
I have no access to any tools or features that can do that.

A few more constructive comments and suggestions would accomplish a lot more than this pile-on of whingeing. This is all ridiculous

hissingnoise - 3-9-2019 at 05:20

pile-on of whingeing.

"Whingeing"?

Strewth ─ you're calling what we're saying whingeing???

You'd be far better at your, er, 'job' if you'd just fucking do it!!!

[Edited on 3-9-2019 by hissingnoise]

RogueRose - 3-9-2019 at 06:05

are there not daily or at LEAST weekly backups of the forum? If there are not, this board is being SEVERLY mishandled and a new admin needs to take over - or a migration (of members) to a platform where the admin's care about the work/content that is created by the members.

[Edited on 9-3-2019 by RogueRose]

hissingnoise - 3-9-2019 at 06:26

Quote: Originally posted by RogueRose

If there are not, this board is being SEVERLY mishandled and a new admin needs to take over

I second, and third that, RR ─ and while we're at it, this jerk's spam-control "efforts" are just beyond laughable!

Pretending to be constantly online when he's obviously not while the shit piles up to the fucking rafters is a fucking disgrace ─ I'm here now 17 years and I've never seen the place in such a shambles as it has been lately...

j, if you're not up to the 'job', and you clearly aren't, then let someone with the little bit of required expertise you singularly lack take over!!!

hissingnoise - 3-9-2019 at 07:52

And I see that picnic acid is MIA still, just because some asshole was off their head on booze, or, more likely, off their fucking meds!!!

The whole thing just keeps getting worse!

Picnic Acid 2 - 3-9-2019 at 08:32

Picnic Acid here. I remember trying to go onto here yesterday, however it came up with a 403 forbidden error. I was hoping it was just a bug with the server, and came back today, and I'm still Forbidden. Speaking to a friend on discord, and they suggested to try a VPN. And here I am...

Now, I came back to find all of this, and I'm like "Oh my god what did I do.".

Reading what j_sum said, it sounded like a mistake or error. My old acc is still gone and reduced to atoms, so I have created a new one.

Now, whatever happens, lets hope this one dosen't get removed. If it does, at least we no someone is targeting me. To be honest, this is the first time I have ever been banned, and I can't believe all the mess it has created. Thanks for missing me

Lets hope my threads stay scientific rather than political in the future. XD

zwt2 - 3-9-2019 at 08:48

"Whingeing" is an accurate characterization.
j_sum1 is doing a thankless task in a voluntary capacity. He is not "the" site admin, he's the only one left of many admins and mods who either got bored or tired of the abuse and effectively quit.
You should really be complaining to Melgar, Bert, Texium, gdflp, woelen, & The_Davster, who've all been active in the past several months but haven't really been using their mod and admin powers and certainly haven't been communicating with the rest of the community.
The disappearing threads and account issues seem to be a byproduct of the antiquated forum software, and have nothing to do with j_sum1. A more cynical view would suggest that this is an intended functionality designed to force users to migrate over to new forum software, which seems to be Melgar's preferred solution; the scripts were a band-aid on a broken leg.
Site backups were always handled by Polverone, before his mysterious disappearance; you should ask him why they weren't being done more frequently.
These things are NOT j_sum1's fault. Don't chase away one of our only active admins just because you don't understand what's going on.

Also, good to see Picnic Acid found his way back.

[Edited on 3-9-2019 by zwt2]

Picnic Acid 2 - 3-9-2019 at 09:10

"Whingeing" is an accurate characterization.
j_sum1 is doing a thankless task in a voluntary capacity. He is not "the" site admin, he's the only one left of many admins and mods who either got bored or tired of the abuse and effectively quit.
You should really be complaining to Melgar, Bert, Texium, gdflp, woelen, & The_Davster, who've all been active in the past several months but haven't really been using their mod and admin powers and certainly haven't been communicating with the rest of the community.
The disappearing threads and account issues seem to be a byproduct of the antiquated forum software, and have nothing to do with j_sum1. A more cynical view would suggest that this is an intended functionality designed to force users to migrate over to new forum software, which seems to be Melgar's preferred solution; the scripts were a band-aid on a broken leg.
Site backups were always handled by Polverone, before his mysterious disappearance; you should ask him why they weren't being done more frequently.
These things are NOT j_sum1's fault. Don't chase away one of our only active admins just because you don't understand what's going on.

Also, good to see Picnic Acid found his way back.

[Edited on 3-9-2019 by zwt2]

I agree. The whole reason I came back was because j-sum1 said that he didn't know why, and hoped I would come back. Otherwise, I would have asumed I was banned for a reason, and that's it.

Yes, you can tell that the software is dated, but we shouldn't blame it on j_sum1.

Pumukli - 3-9-2019 at 09:11

We are sitting on a train/ship/space ship with most of the crew went missing/in deep sleep/on maternity leave/in jail (the movie Travellers come to mind): if you check the top 15 leading "officials" of the board (supermoderators/moderators/superadministrators) maybe there are 5 or less who are actually active.

It is a problem.

I don't know how to solve this, but accusing/attacking j_sum1 is not the solution either. Making him wanting to leave for a few days "breathing fresh air" would probably make things even less comfortable (spam).

The disappearance of the thread is annoying, but taking into account the actual loss of useful information... Well, the thread contained 50+% political mudwrestling, 40% mumbling about what is legal or what can be considered legal, the rest few% was about actual chemistry. Which is probably covered somewhere in the other picric acid thread anyway (as teodor pointed out), in the thread what Picnic acid failed to read from the start. Wouldn't it be nice if new members followed the guidelines and would read more and tried to learn at first? Ah, good, old days...

Herr Haber's remark about the value of the thread is a very nice one!

Unfortunately he forgot to use the appropriate smiley at the end so the superficial reader can easily misunderstand it.

J_sum1 appropriately dealt with Rebecca too: he acted a bit too cautiously but in the end find the right button.

Man, this is a board about chemistry - at leat that's I was thought.

Loading the ongoing discussions with political rants, opinions, counter-opinions, in general: nonesens is just add insult to injury! We have this "Travellers" problem, no need to actively destruct the forum with slippery (banned) topics, like politics, religions, unsubstantiated unprovable beliefs, etc.

Thanks for those who are still active and try to make the general feel of the board not only bearable but rather desirable to make it a pleasant place! This way it may last longer.
If the remaining active administartors start to feel inclined not to visit the board regularly, then we will sink in no time.

I don't remember who said it in the past but said it well: More DOING of actual chemistry, less speaking.

Picnic Acid 2 - 3-9-2019 at 09:19

Quote: Originally posted by Pumukli

We are sitting on a train/ship/space ship with most of the crew went missing/in deep sleep/on maternity leave/in jail (the movie Travellers come to mind): if you check the top 15 leading "officials" of the board (supermoderators/moderators/superadministrators) maybe there are 5 or less who are actually active.

Herr Haber's remark about the value of the thread is a very nice one!

Unfortunately he forgot to use the appropriate smiley at the end so the superficial reader can easily misunderstand it.

J_sum1 appropriately dealt with Rebecca too: he acted a bit too cautiously but in the end find the right button.

Let me first say, I did search up about it on the forum before I posted, and nothing came up. I don't know wether that was because I didn't put the words in the right order or something.

Plus, a lot of other synths lead to other restricted chemicals needed, and that takes me to square one.

All I wanted is a friendly discussion to see if anyone new any other ways. If people are going to start being snobby and aresy again, I will be happy to get banned again...

Also, let me repharse that I didn't take part or start any political discussions in my thread. It started after someone mentioned moving to the US so I can buy more chemicals.

[Edited on 3-9-2019 by Picnic Acid 2]

Pumukli - 3-9-2019 at 09:42

You were not banned, so you would not be banned "again".

But back to your problem: don't you think if there were an easier route then it would have already be shown?

Picric acid is an old chemical, known for 150+ years probably. When it was discovered sulfuric acid, nitric acid, phenol, salicilyc acid, whatnot was not a problem to have or acquire.
Syntheses were optimized with the available strong chemicals, there was no need to use the literally watered down versions.

Then came this new thinking with the restrictions. No one had the time/urge to develop a new synthesis route appropriate for the new circumstances. But why would? Would it be less illegal to posess the end product if it was made via an environmetally benign way? How many quids of fine or years in jail could have been written off this way? Would the law enforcement be more forgiving?

First you should decide what you want. Want to remain 100% legal and forget picric acid or want the acid but got illegal. Frankly, I don't see any middle ground.

We already gave you suggestions on how to achieve your goal if you chose the later.

The old adage about having a pleasant fck and remaining virgin at the same time come to mind ...

hissingnoise - 3-9-2019 at 09:59

Quote: Originally posted by Picnic Acid 2

Picnic Acid here.

So I see picnic acid, almost exactly half an hour after my inquiry...sheer coincidence, one 'must' assume?

But why the caps in your moniker this time when you didn't use them in your previous 'incarnation'?

And your English usage, too, has a somewhat different timbre to it that I can't quite put my finger on.

Something's not quite right here, methinks?

hissingnoise - 3-9-2019 at 10:13

"Whingeing" is an accurate characterization.

Gee zwt2, for a 'first poster', you seem to have an inordinate knowledge of the workings of this forum?

A first poster usually makes some mention of chemistry, rather than engaging in an over-effusive defense of a very recently embattled moderator...

How fucking odd is that?

hissingnoise - 3-9-2019 at 10:26

You seem to take us all for brainless morons, j_sum1?

I'll say this to you with all the diplomacy I can muster; why don't you go fuck yourself???

zwt2 - 3-9-2019 at 10:52

Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise

"Whingeing" is an accurate characterization.

Gee zwt2, for a 'first poster'

What makes you think I'm a "first poster"? My signature is a link to my old account. Like many inactive members, I couldn't recover my old account so I started a new one. I've been reading these forums on-and-off for years.

You've failed to actually address my argument, which is a shame, as I expected more than a simple Ad hominem. I'm not actually defending jsum_1, he's made his fair share of mistakes, but most of what he's being blamed for he simply isn't responsible for.

You're acting paranoid and delusional, and demonstrably irrational. Your accusations are an unfalsifiable hypothesis (even though it's false, no proof could possibly exist), which someone on a science forum should be able to avoid. You're devolving into conspiracy theories (any evidence against your hypothesis will be added to the hypothesis as support). The attitude is one thing, the nonsensical discourse is another.

Have you tried reddit, or one of the even seedier forum websites where "free speech" reigns? You'll at least be among like-minded individuals.

MineMan - 3-9-2019 at 11:44

Give it a rest already, Rosco. I know you are a strong advocate for franklyn. But he is absent from here of his own volition. No ban is in place. He was never kicked off.

Incorrect. I contacted him recently. He seems to want to contribute and still checks this forum regularly...

We should let the man back. I do agree with Rosco... these days we have to be very vigilant not to ban those with opinions that are considered fringe or non compliant... the internet is in a dreadful place... let’s be a shining light.

RogueRose - 3-9-2019 at 12:21