Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Making sodium by destiling Toluene or similar

Smoker Root - 22-10-2019 at 14:52

Hi I saw NurdRages video of making sodium, by destiling aggregate with dioxane. Nurd says that it can work with other solvents like xylene, toluene or mineral oil, but that the yield would be lower. I want to ask how much lower, and if there is any paper that can reference this

Phosphor-ing - 22-10-2019 at 17:01

Probably won’t find a paper on that reaction. Nurdrage claims to have discovered it himself. I’m inclined to believe him. So do the experiment and see how the yields are affected.

BromicAcid - 22-10-2019 at 19:05

Likely not a paper that references this because it's certainly not the way it would be done industrially. When trying to purify sodium from electrolysis it's common to melt the sodium under an inert liquid like mineral oil, in that case the sodium coalesces with some prodding and the dross or whatever garbage there is can be separated on cooling. However in the case of working up that reaction mixture you have so much garbage that the pieces of sodium likely describe much more work to isolate. I tried to perform this operation to try to recover potassium but had a lot of issues.

Check out the unconventional sodium thread, there's a lot of stuff from back in 2005 where we were trying dioxane, toluene, kerosene, etc.

12thealchemist - 23-10-2019 at 10:55

Based on later work by NurdRage, only ethereal solvents like dioxane or glyme would work to coalesce the sodium produced in NaOH/Mg aggregate. It appears that the oxygens atoms of the solvent are necessary to weakly coordinate the metal and bring it together - it's probably possible with toluene, but you may struggle and require multiple refluxes.

If you're after a paper, the best you'll get is my report found here: http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=104576

[Edited on 23-10-2019 by 12thealchemist]

S.C. Wack - 23-10-2019 at 16:14

I suspect that the relevant thread(s) mention that the dioxane is from a patent that gives no alternatives or explanation other than density.

draculic acid69 - 26-10-2019 at 04:01

Quote: Originally posted by 12thealchemist  
Based on later work by NurdRage, only ethereal solvents like dioxane or glyme would work to coalesce the sodium produced in NaOH/Mg aggregate. It appears that the oxygens atoms of the solvent are necessary to weakly coordinate the metal and bring it together - it's probably possible with toluene, but you may struggle and require multiple refluxes.

If you're after a paper, the best you'll get is my report found here: http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=104576

[Edited on 23-10-2019 by 12thealchemist][/rquo

12thealchemist do u know if anyone has actually tried glymes or whether it's just been theorised?

draculic acid69 - 26-10-2019 at 04:09

I reckon lithium with its tendency to float in xylene or toluene or mineral oil could be purified by boiling in them the way dioxane works if it's just a matter of density.