Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Suggestions of getting a lab heating source

Suggestions of getting a lab heating source

vibbzlab - 25-11-2019 at 17:41

I am really into my lab nowadays So I need a heating source,I was thinking of a butane heater so I checked around the markets in my place in India and couldnt find any. I looked inany YouTube videos and found this kind of thing in many people. I was wondering if I should use this or something else should be used like electric or something else.
If you have suggestions please respond.
It would be also very helpful for me if you can provide me with links of those things I can get to India economically and quality wise good too.

G-Coupled - 25-11-2019 at 18:15

I suppose it's kind of like a modern take on a Bunsen burner.

How are you with wires and electronics, kind of thing? You might be able to cobble something quite quite usable and safe from some simple circuitry and some NiChrome heating elements etc.

vibbzlab - 25-11-2019 at 18:18

I am not into electric stuff

Sulaiman - 25-11-2019 at 19:02

There are made-in-India heating mantles
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Heating-Mantle-500mL-220V-or-110v...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Heating-Mantle-For-Flask-220-V-Ca...
this would enable you to do distillation, refluxing etc.

Also made-in-India hotplate-stirrers
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Magnetic-Stirrer-With-Hot-Plate/1...

For test tube scale I now use IKEA Glimmer tealight candles as a heat source ,
equivalent to about 30 Watts of heating ... any candle with a clean burning flame is ok.

Very nice YouTube channel ... congratulations !

P.S. that butane gas burner that you pointed to seems to be about 580 W for 40 minutes.

[Edited on 26-11-2019 by Sulaiman]

j_sum1 - 25-11-2019 at 19:10

Noisy but good.

vibbzlab - 25-11-2019 at 20:39

Thank you sulaiman
Also I am not sure if I should use a burner or electric one

arkoma - 25-11-2019 at 20:41

One of the best purchases I ever made was for a used Corning hotplate/stirrer on eBay. Yeah, it was a hundred bucks, but in hindsight should have been one of the first things i saved up for and bought

draculic acid69 - 26-11-2019 at 03:18

Candles for test tube size stuff and anything bigger you should get a heating mantle/stirrer.unless your doing high temperature stuff (250'c +) just buy a blue/white cheap mantle off of eBay or Amazon

B(a)P - 26-11-2019 at 03:22

Quote: Originally posted by vibbzlab

Thank you sulaiman
Also I am not sure if I should use a burner or electric one

IMHO best to avoid the open flame.
My preference is always hotplate with stirrer, but that suits my chemistry.

Corrosive Joeseph - 26-11-2019 at 03:50

It is virtually impossible to do all the chemistry you will want to without being able to heat and stir at the same time. The combination hotplate/stirrer is the single most important piece of lab equipment.

After that, an old deep fat fryer hacked to a C-REX-100 will give you an oil bath with heating capabilities of 0-400c degrees for the price of about €40...... Only a dememted lunatic heats flammable liquids with a naked flame but this is mad science so knock yerself out.

/CJ

Sulaiman - 26-11-2019 at 04:52

I agree that heating anything more than a few ml of liquids other than water
(i.e. common/flammable solvents) with an open flame, is inviting trouble,
I also agree that continuous stirring is very important.

Although I've not tried a deep fat frier, it seems very useful and practical,
(I use oil in a cooking pot on a hotplate, but I don't know what oil would work to 400^oC)

I use simple/cheap TRIAC based 'dimmer' eBay modules for controling the heating power of my cheap twin hotplate,(1500W and 750W)
and a (380W) diy heating mantle.
(even though I have a REX-C100 controller with various thermocouples and a functionally similar Eurotherm temperature controller).

P.S. it was recently pointed out to me the danger of an oil or sand bath used to heat volatile liquids;
The bath needs to be at a higher temperature than the liquid being boiled due to the thermal resistance of glass,
if the boiling flask does break then boiling liquid will drop into the bath which is at an even higher temperature,
causing rapid violent boiling ... not good to say the least.
Plan ahead for such an occurence.

[Edited on 26-11-2019 by Sulaiman]

vibbzlab - 26-11-2019 at 05:21

Ok I guess I should get a heating mantle or hotplate stirrer. Can I heat round bottom flask on flat magnetic hotplate?

Dr.Bob - 26-11-2019 at 06:14

Yes, using an oil bath to transfer the heat. This helps to even out the temperature, and allows a variety of flask sizes and shapes. You can also use solid bbs, sand, water (for heating low bp organics) or other media, but oil is very common, cheap and easy. I use one often, along with soft heating mantles, which are good for refluxing reactions or larger scales.

Ubya - 26-11-2019 at 06:17

Quote: Originally posted by vibbzlab

Ok I guess I should get a heating mantle or hotplate stirrer. Can I heat round bottom flask on flat magnetic hotplate?

sure you can. water bath for low boiling solvents or to heat the flask to <100°C, an oil bath can go to 200°C or a bit more before starting to smoke, if you need higher temperatures use a sand or liquid metal bath, but depends on the maximum temperature achievable by the hotplate.

you can't really control the heat input from an open flame, use them only for high temperature experiments

vibbzlab - 26-11-2019 at 06:22

Looks like I will get a hotplate with stirrer then .
I have looked around and found one in AliExpress

https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/ojceeY3O

Sulaiman - 26-11-2019 at 07:36

Its a matter of opinion but I think that 200W is only good for warming,
for a hotplate I'd want significantly more heating power.

Yttrium2 - 26-11-2019 at 07:47

Don't some people use heat lamps? I forget the pros behind doing this

vibbzlab - 26-11-2019 at 08:08

So what power should I opt for

G-Coupled - 26-11-2019 at 08:38

Quote: Originally posted by vibbzlab

So what power should I opt for

I bought a used UK-manufactured (early-mid 80s,I'd guess) STUART brand hotplate /mag stirrer for about 40 EUR from an industrial surplus place I found on the 'bay which I'm really pleased with. Aluminium hotplate.

IIRC, it's around 480W (240V) and produces temps at the plate of up to around 230C, if that gives you an idea.

In India, don't you maybe have some guys around who are good at repairing/hacking electronics who could knock you something up from old/scrap items?

I'd still say that an older, used lab quality hotplate is your best option, over the Chineseum ones around cheap these days.

vibbzlab - 26-11-2019 at 08:58

Yes cannot believe Chinese things. That's true

B(a)P - 26-11-2019 at 10:55

I recently purchased a cheap 250 W combined hot plate and stirer.
It has done about 100 h of use so far and no complaints.
I haven't required temps over 140 C, but it has got liquids into this range no problem at about 2/3 power, I am only talking small volumes though <200 mls.

draculic acid69 - 26-11-2019 at 18:32

Quote: Originally posted by Yttrium2

Don't some people use heat lamps? I forget the pros behind doing this

The cons outweigh any pro's.

draculic acid69 - 26-11-2019 at 18:36

What size glassware do you have?
500ml - 1 litre is what most of us have and the cheap Chinese heating mantles at 400w allow most of our needs to be met.

vibbzlab - 26-11-2019 at 21:41

Yea I use max 1L

sodium_stearate - 27-11-2019 at 05:57

I use an old pump-up style Coleman model 502 gasoline-fired
camp stove.

vibbzlab - 27-11-2019 at 06:07

But it produces a lot of soot right

Coleman 502 gasoline stove

sodium_stearate - 27-11-2019 at 06:16

It only produces soot when the flame is burning yellow.
When it is fully up to temperature and operating correctly,
the flame is blue and there is absolutely no soot.

It goes yellow if the generator is clogged or fouled, or if
the fuel is old and spoiled. It does burn yellow like that
for a few minutes as it warms up when first started.

When it's working right, it's a clean, very hot, blue flame.

Look on Ebay for "Coleman 502 stove" to see it.

vibbzlab - 27-11-2019 at 07:08

Oh good

G-Coupled - 27-11-2019 at 14:14

I do like the look of the Indian-made stirrer mantles linked above - I wonder if they're any good for the price?

Maybe you should 'take one for the team', vibbz and let us know!

[Edited on 27-11-2019 by G-Coupled]

vibbzlab - 27-11-2019 at 15:56

I am unable to open the links.
I also found another one
https://www.antslab.in/product/magnetic-stirrer-with-hot-pla...

G-Coupled - 27-11-2019 at 16:43

Quote: Originally posted by vibbzlab

I am unable to open the links.
I also found another one
https://www.antslab.in/product/magnetic-stirrer-with-hot-pla...

Which links? That hotplate/stirrer in your post I can imagine being pretty good, actually - especially for the price. Kinda gives a vibe of some of the better Soviet stuff IMO - kinda built ugly, but sturdy and functional.

India's up and coming these days, and they might have started to get up there, and even better than the Chinese at some things like this.

Support Indian home industry! No, seriously - I think you should seriously think about getting one. *Much* better than that Butane tea lamp or whatever in your earlier post.

I'm seriously thinking about getting one of the Indian heating stirrer/mantles linked up thread when it's time for me to get one. :cool:

[Edited on 28-11-2019 by G-Coupled]

[Edited on 28-11-2019 by G-Coupled]

IMG_28112019_005550_(1280_x_1024_pixel)_resize_0.jpg - 72kB

[Edited on 28-11-2019 by G-Coupled]

vibbzlab - 28-11-2019 at 05:45

Thanks
And I think there's not much home chemist from India.

G-Coupled - 28-11-2019 at 07:02

Quote: Originally posted by vibbzlab

Thanks
And I think there's not much home chemist from India.

That may be so, but you've got at least a couple of companies manufacturing affordable, semi-decent looking lab gear now and that's a good sign.

I bet there will be a lot more small chemistry companies popping up as India takes on China in becoming the world's premier supplier of chems/tech assembly etc.

I'm seriously thinking of springing for one of those Indian heating mantle/stirrers myself when I get my RBFs etc. - I'd be willing to take a punt on them at 80 EUR.

vibbzlab - 28-11-2019 at 07:30

I already set up my lab and chemicals are also set.
I really need a decent heating source and I think this one is really good. I will buy it maybe in a few months .
I am also planning to upgrade my lab and stuff. My videos have to be made better too .

G-Coupled - 28-11-2019 at 07:55

Quote: Originally posted by vibbzlab

I already set up my lab and chemicals are also set.
I really need a decent heating source and I think this one is really good. I will buy it maybe in a few months .
I am also planning to upgrade my lab and stuff. My videos have to be made better too .

Sorry, which one do you think is really good?

vibbzlab - 28-11-2019 at 08:51

https://www.antslab.in/product/magnetic-stirrer-with-hot-pla...
This one

Herr Haber - 28-11-2019 at 09:19

Quote: Originally posted by vibbzlab

https://www.antslab.in/product/magnetic-stirrer-with-hot-pla...
This one

It's ugly but who cares ?
Power could be a little bit more but that price is hard to beat.

That said, I never regreted investing 500 Euros in my second hotplate. The first was a gift so no complains there either but a quality hotplate will make everything you do more pleasant and precise.

I also have a bunsen burner that runs on a camping gas bottle for whatever I need to do away from home but for this, any regular and cheap camping stove would have been enough.

vibbzlab - 28-11-2019 at 09:26

That's the best I can manage ATM haha.

G-Coupled - 28-11-2019 at 09:32

With a little tinkering from someone who can hack electronics a bit, you might even be able to safely and quite easily soup up the power on that Indian Soviet-looking hotplate sometime down the road if you need more power. :cool:

vibbzlab - 28-11-2019 at 16:46

Lol Soviet looking,but that's the best I can afford. Let me do more videos in YouTube so I think I can make enough donation or something to buy even that Soviet thing

G-Coupled - 28-11-2019 at 17:04

Hey, I *like* the way it looks. :cool:

Good luck with your channel - it's really good to see more actual amateur chemistry on places like YouTube.

[Edited on 29-11-2019 by G-Coupled]

draculic acid69 - 28-11-2019 at 18:39

Is that blue and white bexco mantle hiding a Variac in that little box where the dial is.
Why would they need a bulky box hanging off the side when a tiny little circuit board will do.

vibbzlab - 28-11-2019 at 20:02

That's a really nasty stuff. You don't want to mess with bexco mantles. That thing gets way too hot within seconds. To be honest it's not safe. I've seen it being used in my highschool lab and that thing shoot sparks out when it gets on.

G-Coupled - 29-11-2019 at 00:02

Quote: Originally posted by draculic acid69

Is that blue and white bexco mantle hiding a Variac in that little box where the dial is.
Why would they need a bulky box hanging off the side when a tiny little circuit board will do.

That's a really good question - well noticed. :cool:

Quote: Originally posted by vibbzlab

That's a really nasty stuff. You don't want to mess with bexco mantles. That thing gets way too hot within seconds. To be honest it's not safe. I've seen it being used in my highschool lab and that thing shoot sparks out when it gets on.

I did think that, especially in the image of the smaller BEXCO mantle, that the heat resistant lining looked really sloppily applied.

I wonder what they look like inside? I also wonder what they might have skimped on, or built sloppily and whether they're hackable? For 40 EUR for one delivered, I might take the risk if I get the cash.

It'd make a nice write up for the forum, at any rate - an unboxing, review and treardown of a cheap BEXCO mantle.

[Edited on 29-11-2019 by G-Coupled]

vibbzlab - 29-11-2019 at 00:16

I am planning to get the antslab hotplate and stirrer I am collecting cash to get that. It's around 100 USD and I am not even close

G-Coupled - 29-11-2019 at 03:51

Are there not also colleges/universities which might get rid of/sell cheaply surplus equipment that you could ask?

Also, why not ask AntsLab if they'd be willing to sponsor your YouTube channel by giving you a discounted hotplate?

You know, the more I think about it, if those BEXCO mantles are nice and simple inside (and I'm thinking they will be) - if they at least have stirring motors worth keeping, and the insulation - they shouldn't be to hard to hack. Maybe upgrade the power circuitry - more torque on the stirrer, more power (safely) to make more heat?

It'd make a great YouTube chemistry/electronics video anyway - brand new heating mantle with stirring for around 50 bucks delivered that can be easily hacked/upgraded? I'd watch the hell outta that. :cool:

EDIT: Hunh - the Ant's Lab hotplate is only US$60 - that's honesty a steal if it's any good at all.

[Edited on 29-11-2019 by G-Coupled]

G-Coupled - 29-11-2019 at 05:08

Apologies for the double post, but it's quite long:

Ahh, damn - I knew it was too good to be true - the 350W 250C (quite underpowered as mentioned above) hotplate is USD 100, the 600W (pretty hefty powered) 350C hotplate is USD 210.

IDK about 250C with the 350W one - my old skool UK-made 30-35 year old 450W hotplate struggles to get much above 230C measured at the plate with a digital probe thermometer.

The AntsLab magnetic stirrer with no heater is USD 60.

They also do a pretty cool looking overhead stirrer for USD 185.

Still great prices if the equipment is as well-made as it looks like it might be IMO.

I'd like to start seeing these inexpensive Indian-made equipment being used by smaller and amateur chemists more than the Chinese stuff. You've had your time China, move over - now it's time for India to shine!

vibbzlab - 29-11-2019 at 05:12

Lol.
So you think that 100usd antslab 350W thing good?

G-Coupled - 29-11-2019 at 05:45

Quote: Originally posted by vibbzlab

Lol.
So you think that 100usd antslab 350W thing good?

I honestly do - it should be perfectly good for stuff up to at least 200C - if you want/need to/can afford to get the 600W 350C model for USD210, then that should allow you to perform higher temperature stuff like, I dunno, distilling H2SO4 or whatever.

That overhead stirrer for 185 USD also looks pretty cool - they're not usually easy to find and/or cheap, and can come in handy in quite a few situations.

Did all the BEXCO mantles overheat/spark when you saw them at college, or was it just one or two? I'd like to take a closer look at one, especially what they've used inside, because they're insanely cheap. If they can be hacked/circuit bent/made safe easily and cheaply enough, then they're a great resource to have IMO.

That Ant's Lab seems like a pretty cool small supplier - they also sell Alumina heating crucibles, mortar and pestles and grinding balls. Some other Quartz and Platinum stuff as well. Nicely done whichever forum poster discovered them. :cool:

vibbzlab - 29-11-2019 at 06:08

I did post it here.

I think you are so into bexco mantle. Ye just 2-3 mantles did spark. XD

G-Coupled - 29-11-2019 at 08:52

Quote: Originally posted by vibbzlab

I did post it here.

I think you are so into bexco mantle. Ye just 2-3 mantles did spark. XD

For USD160 for a 5L stirrer/mantle down to USD60 for a 500ml one, yes - I am (or hopefully will be) so into them.

If they're just OK as is, or can be easily tweaked to work safely and well, then at these prices, IMO they could be nothing short of revolutionary for affordable home chemistry. :cool:

vibbzlab - 29-11-2019 at 09:14

If that mantle has a stirrer I would have definitely bought it.

draculic acid69 - 29-11-2019 at 18:59

Again is that bexco mantle regulated with a Variac in that boxy part where the dial is?why is there a rectangle attached to the mantle when a circuit board will do.

vibbzlab - 29-11-2019 at 19:27

That's just hollow . It has nothing in it. Waste of space

Sulaiman - 29-11-2019 at 19:32

I do not know, but I suspect that there is a simple bi-metalic switch mechanism in that box,
the size of the box may be arbitray, or to insulate the switch from the heat of the mantle,
at those prices an inbuilt variac is very unlikely.

The good news is that you have plenty of space to replace the (presumed) bi-metalic controller with a cheap eBay triac based 'dimmer' module.
(I really like those modules - fine control of constant power)
The only difficult part for a non experienced electrician may be a little re-wiring.

vibbzlab - 29-11-2019 at 19:44

Take care not to die of electrocution. That stuff is really dangerous

RogueRose - 30-11-2019 at 04:18

Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1

Noisy but good.

IDK if you have ever tried something like a router speed control or a dimmer but I think those should work well for a heat gun as it's a normal resistive load - nichrome. The controllers are basically triac controllers and I know most can do 1500w or more. I use mine on a vacuum cleaner (universal motor - brushed AC) and it works great at controlling how much suction or "blowing" (lol) I get and it the motor doesn't seem to mind even hours on end.

I know the 2000w triac "motor controllers" on ebay ($4-10) also list uses as heater controller, which is also a plain resistive load. I'm guessing that is what is in my more expensive "Master Appliance" heat gun (750w only) and it has a little triac control for only the element, so it should be good.

vibbzlab - 30-11-2019 at 16:07

What do you guys think on butane torch

G-Coupled - 30-11-2019 at 16:19

Clean when hot and blue - IDK about how clean they are running cooler with a more yellow flame. Open flame, though.

If open flames don't bother you, then a lot of early experimenters used little Methanol burners that worked well enough. Should be cheap as chips to buy and to run.

vibbzlab - 1-12-2019 at 00:00

I do use Alcohol burner now