Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Airport Chemical Screening

Airport Chemical Screening

MadHatter - 22-12-2019 at 04:29

A few days ago I was going through airport security when
a TSA officer swiped a wet strip against the palms of my
hands. When I asked why I was told to detect chemicals
that could be used to make explosives. I had been
working with KClO4 the day before but nothing came up.
Probably because of the holidays because this wasn't
done last time(6 months ago).

Just a note of caution.

CharlieA - 22-12-2019 at 18:02

You must have washed your hands really well!

Lion850 - 22-12-2019 at 22:54

I'm not sure what these scanners test for, I often travel overseas for work and was randomly selected for testing by taking swabs of my hands and inserting then into a machine more than once when, in the weeks prior to leaving I worked in my lab most days, but never did anything show up in the tests (at least not as far as I know).

RJ2 - 22-12-2019 at 23:34

You'll need a different test for an organic nitrate, an inorganic nitrate, a nitronium aromatic, an organic peroxide, an inorganic peroxide, a chlorine based oxyanion, a different but similar one, an organophosphate, an elemental halogen,an organomercury compound, a short chain alkane, a metal oxide mixed with an elemental metal, a natural alkaloid, a synthetic alkaloid, etc.

The test probably does detect a narrow range of threatening compounds, but you might not have handled any that make that short list. none of the measures are completely reliable. Some may simply be a show to discourage people from trying to bring contraband onboard.

They might get just as good of results putting a smokalarm labeled 'lie dectector' against the passengers butts And asking if they are planning any crimes related to the flight. "We can tell if you are lying and up to something, so don't even think about it"

[Edited on 24-12-2019 by RJ2]

airport security

sodium_stearate - 23-12-2019 at 08:14

It's a pure dog-and-pony show.

Total B.S. as far as I see it.

Anyone with any sort of inclination to do evil
and harm is free to do so.

It would not be very difficult to defeat what's in place now. :cool:

TheMrbunGee - 23-12-2019 at 09:03

Also, They do not check if you make explosives at home, but rather if you have them on you. You can wash off hands anything in one go, but if they handle explosives in their bag/clothes, it is way harder to keep them off hands.

Fery - 24-12-2019 at 04:43

I travel by airplane a lot in EU and the extra departure scanning at airports seems to be a random process, about 1 of 5-10 passes of metal detector frame it beeps although I do not have anything metallic, then security swipes my palms and waist. I asked a lot of times at various airports and I always got uncertain answers like scanning for illegal/dangerous things, so I do not know whether drugs or explosives (so I assume security knows that the detector frame tells no metal present but necessity of random check for chemicals). Few times I even saw a dog sniffing for drugs among checked baggage while waiting for it after landing and read even about dogs sniffing for banknotes (some EU airports check for undeclared cash above 10000 EUR limit to prevent money laundering).
I have never had any problems and I always passed these extra checks flawlessly.

Tsjerk - 24-12-2019 at 05:28

These machines are small mass spectrometers, they catch anything that is a volatile organic. I can imagine they catch things like TNT, TATP, PETN, stuff like that. I don't think they are set to catch drugs, or at least not with a high sensitivity, they would be ringing all day.

DavidJR - 24-12-2019 at 15:41

Actually, not quite: they are ion mobility spectrometers. But yes, they can detect traces of most organic explosives as well as drugs. Which compounds constitute an alarm and at what level is probably set by the operator.

Return trip followup

MadHatter - 31-12-2019 at 13:58

My sister and I got back from visiting relatives
for the Christmas holidays and she found
this in her checked in luggage. Read their
policy about breaking locks on your luggage

Nice of them wasn't it ? :mad:

I guess 50+ year old grandmothers transporting
Christmas gifts for the grandchildren are a MAJOR
security threat ! MOTHERFUCKERS !

DavidJR - 31-12-2019 at 21:56

Yeah, I thought everyone knew that bags are sometimes opened for inspection?

p4rtridg3 - 16-4-2020 at 18:28

Haha! I was wondering the same thing as I had been recrystallizing KNO3 the night before a flight a few months ago. Fortunately they decided not to test me.

I think most of the bomb scanners look for nitrates, a few fancy ones have been introduced recently to try and detect non-nitrogenous explosives. As for how well they work, I don't know. Traditionally explosives without taggants are held to be very difficult to detect, so those machines might just be looking for taggants that wouldn't be in amateur energetics anyway. All speculation, though.

BromicAcid - 16-4-2020 at 19:56

I used to work for a hazardous waste disposal company around 2008. I lived in Wisconsin but we had a contract with a university system out of Texas so we were traveling a lot. We took a gear bag with us containing, among other things - a respirator, chemical labeling stickers, books on reactivity/disposal, blank paperwork, uniforms, wrenches. I don't think a trip went by without a TSA flyer in my bag on at least one leg of the trip. Out of all the times we traveled though we only had one issue where someone had their bag swabbed and it came back positive for nitrates. Took about a half-hour for it to get sorted out but no big issue.

mysteriusbhoice - 29-6-2020 at 08:19

I wonder if shit does come up can you weasle your way out of it by saying that you extensively bleach your body due to germophobia and that because I was wearing a platinum ring and stainless steel ring and copper bracelet the platinum got charged and made NaClO4.

Ubya - 29-6-2020 at 12:33

Quote: Originally posted by mysteriusbhoice

I wonder if shit does come up can you weasle your way out of it by saying that you extensively bleach your body due to germophobia and that because I was wearing a platinum ring and stainless steel ring and copper bracelet the platinum got charged and made NaClO4.

play dumb, in italy we have a say, "don't climb on mirrors", aka don't start making absurd stories, it will just make you look more guilty

Steam - 29-6-2020 at 15:05

I believe the devices the TSA uses are very rudimentary time of flight mass spectrometers. I have had a couple friends report getting flagged by them for possible explosive residue after applying glycerin-based moisturizers to their hands a short while before being swabbed. Then again, I might be wrong. It would be fun to have the opportunity to play with one of those devices one day (outside of working for an agency like the TSA of course D: ).

**EDIT**
I didn't see the post about them being ion mobility detectors- that is very interesting. It would still be fun to play with one!

[Edited on 29-6-2020 by Steam]

Refinery - 6-7-2020 at 06:42

You can legally get in contact with alarm-setting compounds on daily basis. For example, my friends who are gun enthusiastics, have triggered those alarms more than once, but it was mostly handed business as usual. Like my other friend said, working in the airport security, no matter if detectors go off, you still get on your flight if nothing is actually found, because detectors have tendency to go off, sometimes for something trivial. Same thing happens with eas security gates in stores for various items, although they don't have legal right to detain or inspect you, like border control does.

arkoma - 6-7-2020 at 07:14

I travel by air A LOT. I get swabbed every time as I have prosthetic leg. I departed DFW last wednesday, and had handled strontium nitrate that morning. No alarms.

Tsjerk - 6-7-2020 at 07:44

I think these ion mobility spectrometers (as DavidJR pointed out) are quite bad at detecting nitrates.

chemrox - 2-10-2020 at 13:13

Quote: Originally posted by DavidJR

Yeah, I thought everyone knew that bags are sometimes opened for inspection?

Gone are the days when I checked in my bags and map cases with a loaded .45 in the bag... sigh... too fucking many people on this planet

Morgan - 2-10-2020 at 15:50

I was wondering about a baking powder substitute that didn't contain the aluminum compound and came across ammonium carbonate. Would something like that baking ingredient set off detectors after making some bread.

macckone - 4-10-2020 at 16:17

I haven't flown in a while but the swab test will detect nitrates.
My wife set off the alarm with the stroller during the winter as a lot of deicing agents have nitrates in them.
The airport in denver switched the deicing agent used because one of them was setting off all of the explosive detectors when they were deicing the roads around the terminals.
The 'pet friendly' ones are more likely to contain nitrates.

Deathunter88 - 5-10-2020 at 01:33

You guys need to chill the heck out and stop feeling like the entire world/govenment is against you (at least in the US). I recently got into reloading ammunition and the double base smokeless gunpowder you use in kg+ quantities contain roughly 30% nitroglycerine and 70% nitrocellulose. The primers contain lead styphnate among other primary explosives and the dust can get everywhere over time. You can order binary target kits online with ammonium nitrate and aluminum powder for rifles and potassium perchlorate and aluminum powder for handguns. All this really opened my eyes and told me that regualar non-chemists contact things that can be orders more hazardous than 99% of us amateurs and honestly realize that you really don't need to feel so scared of doing experiments with these materials. As long as you are not actually bringing explosives with you, there really is nothing to worry about.

Most recent airport experience

MadHatter - 7-10-2020 at 15:49

I was gone almost 4 weeks - death in the
family. I live in Maine and most of my family
is in Maryland. Before the the outgoing flight
to BWI I was checked with the chemical strips.
Before the returning flight to Maine I was
patted down by a TSA officer. They really
don't trust us people in wheelchairs. Still no
problem either time. Life goes on.

paulll - 8-10-2020 at 16:24

Word to the wise, if you're going to jokingly tell the missus about this thread while making such observations as, "I mean, we all handle nitrates," maybe don't do it in airport security. Mine didn't appreciate the humour at all.

macckone - 29-10-2020 at 08:24

Side note, handling processed meats will cause a false positive on the test strips.
Friend works at TSA and they got a memo.
Problems with the subway workers at the airport returning from break.

Fyndium - 29-10-2020 at 09:41

They contain 0.2% or similar of nitrite, hence. Rubbing processed meat onto your hands for 8 hours a day, no surprise.

Only once

roXefeller - 25-12-2020 at 14:45

I popped positive once from working in an area with long historic use of artillery testing. The soil just has a heavy load of ballistic propellant, PETN in that case. The TSA worker knew right away the cause. I agree 100% to play dumb. If you aren't carrying, they won't have any cause for extra trouble.

Never had any other positive. One anecdote: I flew once within 48 hours of producing and shooting some RDX. They swabbed because I was declaring a firearm (which they will do 100% of the time). Nothing came up on the test. Maybe nitrate esters are more volatile for the scanners while nitramines not (which is why taggants are required to increase volatiles for detection). I suspect this is also the reason non-nitrogen species (like chlorates and perchlorates) aren't detected. This really leaves little care for the BS of airport security. Security theatre to make the plebs feel better. They still fail to catch actual threats.