Sciencemadness Discussion Board

EtOEt leaking out of reagent bottle?

thors.lab - 6-5-2020 at 23:52

Hi,

I made some EtOEt a while back (about a year or so?) for an upcoming video, but then had to move back to uni and was unable to complete the video. Placed the ether in a reagent bottle — the type with the big ass cap and polymer coating to prevent cracks — and wrapped the threads in teflon, tightened it as hard as I could, and wrapped the whole thing in aluminum foil to prevent light. I put that in my garage.

Now it's summer, and I was moving things out of my garage to place in the attic. I came across the ether and decided to move it, but I didn't know just where yet so I put it in my house for a couple days until I had organized a place to put it in a shed outside. (dumb I know, but it was only temporary)

I noticed a smell of ether after a couple days, checked the ether and sure enough it was coming from there. The bottle cap felt loose.

Is it possible that with the summer being hot, enough pressure was able to build to literally loosen the cap? I'm now worried about autoignition — especially because I wasn't able to fill the bottle fully (only about half way) so it had contact with oxygen and may have formed peroxides.

What should I do here? Just tighten the cap and but it away back outside? Or should I just dispose of it? Is there anything I can do to store it more safely?

Thanks,

Thor

[Edited on 7-5-2020 by thors.lab]

mackolol - 7-5-2020 at 01:05

If you made it a year ago it probably has enough peroxides to not be useful.
And after all its boiling point is 34,6C, so it's super hard to store it, it's not recommended to store it for long time at all. And if you have to it's good to put it in the freezer.

B(a)P - 7-5-2020 at 01:16

It is impossible to contain in any sort of a reagent bottle. Best to make it as required. If you wanted to store it you would be looking for storage vessel suitable for a gas in an inert atmosphere.

thors.lab - 7-5-2020 at 03:03

Quote: Originally posted by mackolol  
If you made it a year ago it probably has enough peroxides to not be useful.
And after all its boiling point is 34,6C, so it's super hard to store it, it's not recommended to store it for long time at all. And if you have to it's good to put it in the freezer.


Quote: Originally posted by B(a)P  
It is impossible to contain in any sort of a reagent bottle. Best to make it as required. If you wanted to store it you would be looking for storage vessel suitable for a gas in an inert atmosphere.


This is what I thought. Alright, disposal it is then — any tips on that? It's only like 250mL, should I just evaporate it outside? I don't want to take any risks distilling with those peroxides in there so using it would be useless anyway. Unfortunately I don't have any KI right now and I want to deal with this sooner rather than later.

Herr Haber - 7-5-2020 at 03:11

Quote: Originally posted by mackolol  
If you made it a year ago it probably has enough peroxides to not be useful.
And after all its boiling point is 34,6C, so it's super hard to store it, it's not recommended to store it for long time at all. And if you have to it's good to put it in the freezer.


Hard to store ?
When in a container pressure develops and the boiling point changes...
I've had 200ml in the bottom drawer of the fridge that has not changed for years. Sure, I'll test for peroxydes when I need it but besides that it's ok.
DCM has a similar BP and is a pain to store too.

Not sure what happened to yours Thor butI wonder if the teflon didnt do more harm than good.

B(a)P - 7-5-2020 at 03:17

From the sound of the description it was not in the fridge, which would obviously make a big difference.

monolithic - 7-5-2020 at 03:53

You can buy peroxide test strips on Amazon if you're concerned about peroxides, or you could could do a qualitative test with KI. Do some research but if there's not a "lot" of peroxides in there, you can neutralize what little peroxides may be present by washing with ferrous sulfate or sodium bisulfite or metabisulfite. You might find this paper useful. http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/files.php?pid=153704&... And of course if there's a "lot" of peroxides in there, it's safest to dispose of it.

In the future you could buy some BHT to inhibit peroxide formation. A lifetime supply is like $20 on Amazon since you only need a very small amount. This is how it's stored commercially, with a tiny amount of BHT.

[Edited on 5-7-2020 by monolithic]

thors.lab - 7-5-2020 at 14:23

Quote: Originally posted by B(a)P  
From the sound of the description it was not in the fridge, which would obviously make a big difference.


I don't really want to put chemicals in my food fridge & I don't have a chemical minifridge. I would get one but I don't have much space to work with, unfortunately. It would be nice to have a good place to store my stuff :/

thors.lab - 7-5-2020 at 14:25

Quote: Originally posted by monolithic  
You can buy peroxide test strips on Amazon if you're concerned about peroxides, or you could could do a qualitative test with KI. Do some research but if there's not a "lot" of peroxides in there, you can neutralize what little peroxides may be present by washing with ferrous sulfate or sodium bisulfite or metabisulfite. You might find this paper useful. http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/files.php?pid=153704&... And of course if there's a "lot" of peroxides in there, it's safest to dispose of it.

In the future you could buy some BHT to inhibit peroxide formation. A lifetime supply is like $20 on Amazon since you only need a very small amount. This is how it's stored commercially, with a tiny amount of BHT.

[Edited on 5-7-2020 by monolithic]


Thanks! I will be buying those preemptively before making ether next time. I've already evapped off the possibly dangerous stuff that's giving me a hard time with storage.

morganbw - 7-5-2020 at 16:33

I think that there might be a slight Irish perversion of the sorts of just drinking it. Maybe no reason to waste.:o

draculic acid69 - 7-5-2020 at 19:34



This is what I thought. Alright, disposal it is then — any tips on that? It's only like 250mL, should I just evaporate it outside? I don't want to take any risks distilling with those peroxides in there so using it would be useless anyway. Unfortunately I don't have any KI right now and I want to deal with this sooner rather than later.[/rquote]

Letting possibly peroxide tainted ether evaporate in or on anything sounds like a bad idea.better to destroy the peroxides first with some iron sulfate.