Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Single displacement reaction for lead?

Single displacement reaction for lead?

Refinery - 17-5-2020 at 13:07

I was gonna make some lead acetate by single displacement reaction with copper acetate.

However, it looks like to me that on Youtube videos, the base metal does not corrode at all, but only the dissolved metal precipitates out. How is this possible, if the base metal is supposed to replace each ion pair?

DraconicAcid - 17-5-2020 at 13:13

It may look like that, but the copper does go into solution.

unionised - 17-5-2020 at 13:25

Quote: Originally posted by DraconicAcid

It may look like that, but the copper does go into solution.

I presume you mean lead.

DraconicAcid - 17-5-2020 at 13:27

Quote: Originally posted by unionised

Quote: Originally posted by DraconicAcid

It may look like that, but the copper does go into solution.

I presume you mean lead.

Yes, of course.

Refinery - 17-5-2020 at 13:28

By any reason it should do so.

I melt the lead and poured it through a sieve into water to maximize its surface area. I store it underwater to keep it from oxidizing until I get my reagents.

Ca Acetate + CuSO4 = CaSO4 + Cu Acetate
Cu Acetate + Pb = Pb Acetate + Cu

Refinery - 1-7-2020 at 10:09

Is there a viable method to separate Cu acetate and Pb acetate? Former appears to have much lower solubility, hence it could possibly be concentrated and then cooled down to crash out Cu?

UC235 - 2-7-2020 at 02:52

Quote: Originally posted by Refinery

Is there a viable method to separate Cu acetate and Pb acetate? Former appears to have much lower solubility, hence it could possibly be concentrated and then cooled down to crash out Cu?

Just use an excess of lead and let it sit until the solution is no longer blue.

Refinery - 2-7-2020 at 04:35

I presume this takes quite a long time?

artemov - 26-10-2020 at 06:45

Sorry for resurrecting this thread. I am doing this now ... trying to get lead acetate for the golden rain experiment.

So basically I have 0.01 mol (about 2.2g) of basic copper carbonate and 100 ml of vinegar. Very slow to react.
About 8.7 g of lead shots are added (double the stoichiometric amount) ...

After 30 hours, all the greenish basic copper carbonate are gone, lead shots are coated with shiny copper, lotsa blackish ppt (coarse and fine), but the solution is still quite bluish green ...

I am not sure how pure are my lead shots, should I add more?
How long do I need to wait for the solution to clear up? Cheers.

B(a)P - 26-10-2020 at 11:19

Quote: Originally posted by artemov

Sorry for resurrecting this thread. I am doing this now ... trying to get lead acetate for the golden rain experiment.

So basically I have 0.01 mol (about 2.2g) of basic copper carbonate and 100 ml of vinegar. Very slow to react.
About 8.7 g of lead shots are added (double the stoichiometric amount) ...

After 30 hours, all the greenish basic copper carbonate are gone, lead shots are coated with shiny copper, lotsa blackish ppt (coarse and fine), but the solution is still quite bluish green ...

I am not sure how pure are my lead shots, should I add more?
How long do I need to wait for the solution to clear up? Cheers.

If you have peroxide you can go straight to lead acetate from acetic acid and metallic lead. If you have lead oxide you can do it without the peroxide. You may already know this, but I thought I would include this incase one of them is an easier route for you.

Fyndium - 26-10-2020 at 13:19

In my experience the displacement reaction produced low yield. The lead acetate was recrystallized multiple times to result pure white crystals, but losses were significant.

If you need lead acetate other than fun of making it, get lead oxide or use hydrogen peroxide method.

I'm not sure if one can do the reaction with sodium percarbonate and acetic acid.

artemov - 26-10-2020 at 21:07

Thanks guys, if this one doesn't work out well I'll probably try that.

Quote: Originally posted by Refinery

I presume this takes quite a long time?

Refinery you have any update?

artemov - 29-10-2020 at 02:43

Ok the solution has cleared up. Took 4 days or so with excess vinegar (2x) and lead (3x). Perhaps with more patience, stirring and hot water baths, less excess reactants will be needed.

Pic 1: Freshly prepared basic copper carbonate + vinegar
Pic 2: After 1 day with lotsa undissolved basic copper carbonate, before lead shots are added
Pic 3: 3 days after lead shots are added
Pic 4: 4 days after lead shots are added

MidLifeChemist - 29-10-2020 at 10:53

Artemov - so it looks like after 4 days, all the CuCO3 dissolved and all the Cu in solution was displaced by Pb, so now you have only Lead acetate in solution - is that correct?

artemov - 29-10-2020 at 21:30

Quote: Originally posted by MidLifeChemist

Artemov - so it looks like after 4 days, all the CuCO3 dissolved and all the Cu in solution was displaced by Pb, so now you have only Lead acetate in solution - is that correct?

Yup should be .... I have filtered the solution and is now trying to crystallize out the lead acetate via slow evaporation. Will update after a couple of weeks

[Edited on 30-10-2020 by artemov]

MidLifeChemist - 29-10-2020 at 21:49

Why so slow? Are you trying to get crystals with a certain look or quality? Or that the only way you can get the product without decomposing it?

artemov - 29-10-2020 at 21:53

Quote: Originally posted by MidLifeChemist

Why so slow? Are you trying to get crystals with a certain look or quality? Or that the only way you can get the product without decomposing it?

I dun really want to heat it as it's a toxic salt ... and I prefer bigger crystals, for safety sake too ...

Not too sure about that ... but I added excess vinegar to prevent hydrolysis, so I heard.

XeonTheMGPony - 30-10-2020 at 05:58

Crosman Lead pellets .22 cal I found to be pretty pure Lead.

I added these to concentrated vinegar and 30% peroxide solution then heated and stirred, I kept adding lead to no more dissolved.

Allowed to cool, then filtered off mystery white powder (Guessing antimony oxide)

Boiled down and evaporated to dryness.

Solidified Lead Acetate crude - upload.jpg - 268kB