Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Getting Adderal & issues

Yttrium2 - 22-7-2020 at 17:17

I've got a schizophrenia diagnosis, on top of this, I have got a history of meth use that has been noted.

Now my questions are how do I get adderal? Only 1 doctor that I've seen was willing to work with me, by the time of my next appointment, he took off and went to work in the jail, were I saw him later on... ( This doctor knew his stuff and used to prescribe amphetamines to the jet pilots in vietnam war, and he did studies on it)

Do I just need to see a doctor and not tell them that I've done meth or is it in a database somewhere that they can see?

Same with my schizophrenia diagnosis?



The doctors say oh yeah' amphetamines are going to make you paranoid, yada yada -- they say it will make my schizophrenia worse, but it is like the only thing that puts a fire under my ass and gets me going with my school work.

And they don't like prescribing amphetamines to people who have a history of amphetamine useage, because they think that I might combine drugs, and take too much.


What are your thoughts? -- I mean, are there any POINTERS!?

[Edited on 7/23/2020 by Yttrium2]

RogueRose - 22-7-2020 at 17:47

Wow, this is you 666 post? Is that saying something, lol?

violet sin - 22-7-2020 at 20:06

Get past the amphetamine craving man. When I see I like something too much or only it will do... That's a clear sign you don't. Light a fire under your own ass, don't shortcut or undercut you own ability.

Years back I let alcohol tell me what to do... Never again. Tobacco: chew, smokes and cigars... Nope. Not gonna spill the whole story of a fellas past, it's boring. Been years and I never felt better. Better things are legal now a days, to risk fucking with all that BS.

No one is going to build up your willpower for you... You have to do it, one day at a time. If you want to, you can motivate yourself, I'm sure of it.

karlos³ - 23-7-2020 at 13:19

Look, we can't help you get drugs.
Get your life under control for yourself.

My personal recommendation would be, just make it yourself if you need it.
But that is out of question with your history.

I would honestly recommend to stay away from stimulants in the future, forever.
You're not helping yourself, you're just helping to ruin your life any further.

karlos³ - 23-7-2020 at 13:56

I don't think I am the guy who got hit in the head with a brick or something here.
You're a diagnosed schizophrenic, you have a history of things that speak against it, like the one scenario where you've been breaking windows in, etc.
Why do you think you need to take a performance enhancing drug?
Schizophrenia is a counter indication.
Doctors can face legal consequence if they give you this stuff, and they would be responsible even if you lie to them.

You're on probation, you're in some kind of program, get your life in order without drugs.
They will surely ruin your life further.
You know this.

Man, seriously this is the wrong forum to ask such things.
I can't believe you even asked that here.
There are older posts of yours where you even describe your issues with drugs, specifically adderall and meth.
Why should anyone responsibly thinking try to help you on this?
You've already proven you don't have this under control, multiple times.
Just look in your post history.

[Edited on 23-7-2020 by karlos³]

karlos³ - 23-7-2020 at 14:24

Then please try to do it sober, without stimulants, as this makes you a canditate for antipsychotics if you're using them, with your history.
You don't need either, it is in your own hands to get your life back in order.

You're ruining your brain with both.
Please try to put some effort in it to get it done just by yourself.
Adderall is not a help long term.

Better try to get some behavioural cognitive therapy, this will really help you to turn your life around, but as a short term solution, adderall will only make it worse.

[Edited on 23-7-2020 by karlos³]

Yttrium2 - 24-7-2020 at 11:27

It took me a long time to realize why I shouldn't cook


Now If I can just make the connection between why Adderall or amphetamines are going to derail me, then I'd be golden with the family, and a lot of the community. I don't understand this.

Also, I don't understand when Adderall is prescribed, how does it not have a crash, leaving students tired and exhausted? Doesn't it have the opposite side of the coin effect here?

Do they prescribe enough for a patient to feel the effects? How much do they prescribe? -- In some cases, it is a lot, but I'm not sure what psychiatrists deem an optimal dosage to be?



When I took it, I had highs and lows. One of the doctors that I spoke with, who was licensed to practice medicine at 24, said that -- there is no crash and if it eventually makes you feel tired, then you need to take more. I forget his reasoning behind this, maybe it had to do with developing tolerance to the drug, or maybe it just had to do with the drug wearing off. or somethig?


It always seems to me that there is a bit of a crash, even with sleep and food.

Syn the Sizer - 24-7-2020 at 13:38

Great advice karlos³, I agree, they may seem to be a fix in the beginning, but if you use them to enhance yourself, they will eventually become a crutch, and it seems like they have already.

I agree cognitive therapy would really benefit you, I admittedly just finished an 8 week cognitive course to work on my self worth and self esteem. Changing the way you think really does help.

I used to do a lot of drugs, all sorts of different drugs, but I am one of the lucky few who doesn't have an addictive personality and I was able to walk away with just minor withdrawal affects. That was 18 years ago, I admittedly have over the last 15 years done a bit of MDMA here and there but it's a rare occasion and I say no all the time. My biggest thing is, what else is in it with the MDMA, I don't trust people so it's best to just stay away. Marijuana is my vice, I love smoking weed, and it's legal here.

karlos³ - 24-7-2020 at 15:57

Quote: Originally posted by Yttrium2  
One of the doctors that I spoke with, who was licensed to practice medicine at 24, said that -- there is no crash and if it eventually makes you feel tired, then you need to take more. I forget his reasoning behind this, maybe it had to do with developing tolerance to the drug...

This doctor is advocating addiction.
Any use of a drug as a tool can very easily lead to a real addiction, because you get the idea of them being not only helpful but neccessary.
Like Syn the Sizer says, they will become a crutch at some point, that is inevitable if you take a pill every day for months or longer, as you won't function the same at the point you stop their use.
Increasing the dose of the drug only increases your dependance on that stuff.
Using drugs for fun is a different thing, of course you can also reach the conclusion you need them to have fun.

But this prescription use of such potent drugs as adderall, that is a direct way into dependance, as they are used for everyday stuff and not just for the weekend or such, this will almost inevitably end up with the user getting the idea of them being not only helpful but needed just to function normally, which is supported by the effects experienced when stopping their use.
Thats much more dangerous than thinking you need them just to go out and enjoy it.
Doctors advocate this way too often, even resorting to such tactics as calling the long and several physical withdrawal of antidepressant drugs a "discontinuation syndrome" to make it sound more harmless and less threatening.
They don't earn on healthy patients, but those who get back to them again and again and take some substance for prolonged times, those are a valuable and important source of income for them.
Be careful to listen just to your doctor!

I know those drugs are fun and use them too, and also others.
But be careful with whatever I say, because I also have the luck of a healthy and sane non-addictive personality.
I can afford that, as they are only toys for me, but never tools.
The only drugs I use as tools are psychedelics, and those are generally seen as nonaddictive and genuinely helpful for the psyche(for a healthy psyche).

I was happy to read your U2U by the way, of course I try to be helping really.
Its just not that pleasant to hear it the way I said it, this might be the way you initially perceived it though and I understand that you deleted some of your posts because of your initial reaction to mine.
Don't worry I understand that well.

As a short term solution that stuff can be helpful... but you don't have that kind of personality and your set of experiences and preexisting condition is also a contraindiction of their use.
Would you just take one pill if the doctor gives you a prescription for a bottle of, lets say hundred pills, at once?
Definitely not, because one pill feels good, two even better, and why not take five or ten? You know what I'm getting at.
And increased dosages bear the risk of you experiencing schizoid symptoms easily again.
That is what I mean those pills will be trouble, both for the addictive personality you definitely have somewhat, and especially for your condition as those substances are one of the worst which do trigger a relapse easily.
That is why you have to take especial care with those things.
I know it sucks, but please let it explain to you by satan from south park, he tells it short and quickly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEln3oDWOqE
And I mean that serious, its an easy explaination and yet a good one.
And for you there is the added risk of a psychotic reaction at some point(might be even sooner and faster than you would expect it).

Yttrium2 - 24-7-2020 at 16:42

wow, where do I begin.


I just really want them because it is helpful -- in essence not necessary, but damned near.

Doesn't addiction just mean liking something a lot? And that that is an addict -- an aficionado of sorts?

You said "as a short term solution they are often helpful" Yet, they are often meant to be taken daily, if you were a psychiatrist, what would you recommend to avoid getting a crash? -- Try to time it so you crash when you are done with work? Or only on the weekends?

If a doctor gave me a prescription I don't know what I'd do because I'd want to be getting the optimal dosage and not getting a crash in the middle of the work week. I'd try to find the right dosage, with the doctor.



Lastly, can you clarify on what you mean by tools / toys, -- that part did kind of resonate with me. I used to be into psychedelics when I was younger. and had similar views on things, I guess.;) -- before the definition of an addict and addiction became murky




[Edited on 7/25/2020 by Yttrium2]

[Edited on 7/25/2020 by Yttrium2]

RogueRose - 25-7-2020 at 01:09

I can totally understand why you might feel you need to have the adderall to help study or work. I was having major problems with a class in college and just couldn't concentrate on this one subject for more than a couple minutes at a time b/c the teacher was terrible, the text book was bad and the topic was boring (low level computer programming....) and on top of this I was having GF issues and was really sick and had finals coming up and had to do well. I ended up studying on adderall for the first time and spent 12 hours straight learning an entire semester basically in one night and I did really well and still remember it, but it's b/c I knew most of it before, I just didn't put everything together very well, and the clarity helped pull everything together.

I also found it helped be more attentive to work and studies but it has diminishing returns when it is used all the time. I think it is a drug that is MUCH more beneficial when it is used sparingly, when there is something you just HAVE to get done or are having a hard time doing it. It is not a source for motivation - that has to come from inside you - using the adderall will not be a long term benefit for this and you will end up in a mess.

As for the schizophrenia, I HIGHLY suggest you stay as far away from uppers as possible with this, it is very easy for schizophrenia develop into paranoia and delusions and then into a break of a psyche from which it would be very difficult to return and not all are so lucky (especially if continuing uppers during this). I can't say how terrible this is and how much higher the risks are with uppers and weed (if you mix the two it's MUCH higher than using either one).

My best advice would be to stay far away from this stuff for at least a year, maybe 2-3+ before you try it again. It takes time to get your motivation back after using uppers, and replacing meth with adderall is a big mistake. You will also have a generally high tolerance for aderall after using meth. Again, a year + off will allow a more reasonable dose add maybe only occasional use should you see fit. I know people who were on 30mg 3-4x a day and they felt like it wasn't doing anything and now, after stopping for a long period, they use 5-10mg on occasion and it does MUCH more than the 30mg did. (I often wonder if some drugs are dosed properly TBH......)

I think you need to read up on drug induces psychosis and look for stories where people were diagnosed schizophrenic and then used speed or weed, and see what their opinions are. I really can't tell you how bad an idea it is to use these while having this condition, especially if the symptoms are new to you. It would be different if you had had them for 20+ years and knew how to handle them, but being relatively new to them, you just don't have the skills to handle this.





Tsjerk - 25-7-2020 at 01:19

Addiction is so much more than "liking something a lot". Addiction is a chronic brain disease of which the symptoms can be over-won, but which will never disappear. An addict you are for life, you can only become a non-using recovering addict.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addiction

Quote:
Addiction is a brain disorder characterized by compulsive engagement in rewarding stimuli despite adverse consequences

Syn the Sizer - 25-7-2020 at 08:24

Quote: Originally posted by Tsjerk  
Addiction is so much more than "liking something a lot". Addiction is a chronic brain disease of which the symptoms can be over-won, but which will never disappear. An addict you are for life, you can only become a non-using recovering addict.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addiction

Quote:
Addiction is a brain disorder characterized by compulsive engagement in rewarding stimuli despite adverse consequences


Thank you, I was going to say the same thing. A person may say "I am addicted to potato chips" because the have to buy a bag every time they see them. But they are not going to get sick, or angry if they have to go a week without them. That is a mental state of thinking you are addicted.

When somebody develops a dependence on a substance it comes with anger, sickness, an unquenchable need for the substance. Take the feeling you get when you haven't had anything to drink of water for a day, you NEED water, you feel like you are going to die without it. To the point of where you might steal just to get that drink. Real addiction is worse than that.

Yttrium2 - 25-7-2020 at 08:39

I don't think so, I just think some things are more addictive (likeable) than others.

--

Yttrium2 - 25-7-2020 at 08:53

addict tends to be used in a derogatory context

Yttrium2 - 25-7-2020 at 08:55

its a put down

Yttrium2 - 25-7-2020 at 09:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9CD7uj2TL0

Syn the Sizer - 25-7-2020 at 09:15

Well, that is not the case. Addiction and a strong like for something are 2 very different things. Yes both cause the release pleasure chemicals which are part of addiction. That is where the mental state comes from. But true addiction becomes a physical thing, not only your mind but your body aches for it, every cell in your body needs it.

If you feel we are putting you down, we are not. Everybody is just trying to help you, there are better routes to helping you out than amphetamines.

Tsjerk - 25-7-2020 at 09:38

Quote: Originally posted by Yttrium2  
its a put down


I have the feeling you are looking down on addicts and you use the term derogatory. I feel bad for addicts and are sorry for them.
Of course usually addictions come forth from bad decisions, but usually those bad decisions didn't come from bad intent. They were just stupid decisions, usually not overseeing the possible bad outcomes.

I'm just trying to warn you, don't play around with addictive stuff, once addicted, always addicted. It is what Syn the Sizer says; an irrational urgue of your brain screaming for a compound, like you are going to die if you don't get it. It becomes an obsession.

The mechanism is very useful in case of water or food, where you will actually die if you don't get it, but your mind is easily tricked into using the same mechanism for other things, for example drugs.

[Edited on 25-7-2020 by Tsjerk]

Syn the Sizer - 25-7-2020 at 09:59

Exactly, that is what that mechanism is for survival. Our brain believes what we let it. If you let yourself get to the point where your brain feels the same about a substance and sustenance, it is hard to retrain your brain to not think that.

Yttrium2 - 25-7-2020 at 10:05

I don't feel bad for them
I feel like mostly people that refer to themselves as an addict are telling me that they lack responsibility, and to watch out -- it is usually used to justify their stupidity

It is derogatory, and people that refer to themselves as such, well its kinda like the N word.


that is often case the meaning of the word. -- it is derogatory often case


I don't look down on people who have been called addicts,
I do kinda look down on people *cough* who refer to themselves as addicts, -- I believe anyone has the will power to change and that its not out of anyones control, anyone who argues otherwise is trying to vouch for lack of responsibility -- people who call themselves addicts are telling me that they lack self control, which I do not believe for a second.

Tsjerk - 25-7-2020 at 10:53

Have you ever been so hungry you couldn't sleep? That is how it feels like to be addicted. The big difference is that after eating when you are hungry you feel good. When you use a substance of abuse you will feel guild because you know what you are doing is bad.

Addiction is not an excuse to use, but why would it be bad for an addict to call himself what he is?

You just go and believe what you want, maybe you just need an addiction before you understand what it is. But don't come crying here, we warned you.

Yttrium2 - 25-7-2020 at 11:14

"why would it be bad for an addict to call himself what he is?"

Because it is what he is not





There is no such thing as an addict, aside from aficionado -- the other meanings of the word are void.
Everyone has freewill






[Edited on 7/25/2020 by Yttrium2]

Tsjerk - 25-7-2020 at 11:24

Yes, addiction is made up... All a big conspiracy by big pharma so they can sell more medication.

If it is all freewill, then why do you need adderal to get your ass of the couch? Just put your mind to it and do it out of freewill.

[Edited on 25-7-2020 by Tsjerk]

Syn the Sizer - 25-7-2020 at 11:35

I think this is a useless argument Yttrium2 is just looking for justification in their feelings and he is not getting it here so the argument will just continue. I lost two of my closest cousins do addiction I know it is very real.

Maybe once they hit rock bottom and have realized they are an addict and addiction is real they will understand.

Yttrium2 - 25-7-2020 at 11:42

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xumJOagDQHE

108403053_3283410248550163_4318234357143211625_o.jpg - 157kB

karlos³ - 25-7-2020 at 11:47

Yes he is only looking for justification to do adderall still.
Maybe if it fires back when he gets into the loony bin because he got some and it didn't go well(which is just a matter of time and not of chance), then he will understand that he actually can never again use any stimulant, no matter which one.
Not he.
Everyone else, yes, but not him.

Yttrium2 - 25-7-2020 at 11:52

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2exCe3ExZNU

Yttrium2 - 25-7-2020 at 11:54

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2a32_IkvQII

karlos³ - 25-7-2020 at 12:10

I am honestly disappointed.
I tried to genuinely help you.

It is now the weekend and you post at an increasing rate.
I would guess you already got some sort of stimulant, legal or illegal, which causes this change in your behaviour.

Syn the Sizer - 25-7-2020 at 12:21

Me too, I see the photo and I see somebody who wants to be happy but is looking for the wrong fix.

We have all tried to help, give advice but I think he will or as you said already made his own mind up.

Yttrium2 - 25-7-2020 at 12:30

Sorry, I guess mainly what I was looking for was unstated, to conclude.

Just curious about dosing regiment, how much/how often?


And


How do people taking add/adhd meds do it everyday and not have problems? Like fatigue and inability to concentrate after expending themselves

I don't want to give it up, perhaps I shouldn't have mentioned the schizophrenia, as that has conflated the issue.



I'll try to reduce my planned out useage of the substance, -- I get the impression its only good for short periods and times where I can *have the time to recooperate afterwards*,

I wish I could appease everyone, especially family, friends, -- loved ones

or make them happy, and not sad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLA_QT0NwLc


[Edited on 7/25/2020 by Yttrium2]

Yttrium2 - 25-7-2020 at 12:33

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJRVxnVPBu0

Yttrium2 - 25-7-2020 at 12:39

Better yet, what is going to get me studying agian?

karlos³ - 25-7-2020 at 13:02

Quote: Originally posted by Yttrium2  
Just curious about dosing regiment, how much/how often?

For you?
Nothing, and never at all.
The reasons are stated as above.

You are addicted, fight that and you get rid of your problems.
I feel very sorry for you :(

Quote: Originally posted by Yttrium2  
Better yet, what is going to get me studying agian?

You and you do it by yourself, by solely your motivation.

Quote: Originally posted by Yttrium2  

How do people taking add/adhd meds do it everyday and not have problems?

Because they are not addicted and they have issues that are real.
Those people benefit by getting of their drugs at some point in life even more.
Because it acts like a behavioural therapy for them.

But you have an addiction problem.
You depend on these types of drugs, and it is your psyche thats the problem.

[Edited on 25-7-2020 by karlos³]

Syn the Sizer - 25-7-2020 at 13:05

Quote: Originally posted by Yttrium2  
Better yet, what is going to get me studying agian?


To be honest man counseling will get your mind cleared a straight to help you focus more, trust me. It will make studying easier. What you are proposing will make everything more difficult long-term.

elementcollector1 - 25-7-2020 at 13:07

Bit of a late joiner to the conversation, but I found in college that my most effective study habits were completely different to anyone else's. Everyone studies differently, and you might not have found your most effective approach yet. Mental affects like ADHD, schizophrenia and others complicate the issue further. Some general advice to try out (may or may not work):

-Reduce visual/audial distractions/clutter. This tends to lead to physical distractions, disrupting study habits.

-Move somewhere else. The library's usually a pretty good choice if it's nearby, as it's generally both quiet and visually well-kept.

-Keep a narrative. This ended up being my saving grace - I'd narrate aloud what I was learning and why it was important, which helped me remember it later. Harder to do in a library unless you're quiet enough, though. Some have spaces you can reserve for this purpose.

-Study with someone else and try to teach each other. Another great help was having to explain what you're learning to another - it forces you to consider aspects you might otherwise skim over. They also tend to ask questions you wouldn't, providing either reinforcement or new insight.

-Keep good notes. This isn't actually about referring to them later - the act of slowly and tediously writing something out tends to lead to improved retainment by the brain for later. Useful when writing notecards/study guides for tests.

-Don't rely on external influences to save you. A cup of coffee won't improve your test-taking abilities and, ultimately, neither will a pill. It may allow you to focus on what you remember better, but it's not a catch-all. (Not a specific dig at you, btw, I knew many, many classmates who insisted 7+ cups of coffee right before their test would help them ace it. Not one found the method successful).

Yttrium2 - 25-7-2020 at 13:14

Karlos, if you'd be so kind to tell me who is an addict and who isn't I'd be happy to hear it.

I have issues that are real too :(


What do you mean they benefit by getting their drugs at some point in their life even more?


Why do you single me out as depending on the drugs? -- I think they help, just as much as the person who goes to the psychiatrist, gets the prescription, visits the pharmacist, and then gets the bottle. -- We both think the drugs help.


What difference is there between me and someone else? You mentioned addiction, and stated that I was an addict, can you explain that?






Thank you Syn the Sizer.
I'll try that, I just don't think a pep talk will help like medication, but who knows......................................................................



and really,


Who cares........................................................................

[Edited on 7/25/2020 by Yttrium2]

[Edited on 7/25/2020 by Yttrium2]

RogueRose - 25-7-2020 at 13:20

Quote: Originally posted by Yttrium2  
Sorry, I guess mainly what I was looking for was unstated, to conclude.

Just curious about dosing regiment, how much/how often?


And


How do people taking add/adhd meds do it everyday and not have problems? Like fatigue and inability to concentrate after expending themselves

I don't want to give it up, perhaps I shouldn't have mentioned the schizophrenia, as that has conflated the issue.



I'll try to reduce my planned out useage of the substance, -- I get the impression its only good for short periods and times where I can *have the time to recooperate afterwards*,

I wish I could appease everyone, especially family, friends, -- loved ones

or make them happy, and not sad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLA_QT0NwLc


[Edited on 7/25/2020 by Yttrium2]


If you think not mentioning the schizophrenia was the mistake here, I think you are definetly barking up the wrong tree for so many reasons. If you ever had a major schizophrenic issue, you wouldn't ever think about taking a stimulant that could cause it again, or increase the chances of it happening. I feel like you are totally disrepecting the diagnosis or are just not educated enough to understand what it can do. Have you ever been in a real psych ward? Have you ever been at a scene where police, first responders or family are trying to deal with someone going through crisis, having to talk them down (its like a hostage situation very often, complete with violence, threats, etc - it's VERY bad)? If not, you need to maybe find some YT videos of it or talk to someone who has been through it or is a professional who has dealt with it.

If you are ignoring the schizophrenia in order to "light an fire under your ass", you are sacrificing the wrong thing. Keeping the schizophrenia at bay and "satiated" and not risking the aggrivation is a MUCH better payoff than getting the motivation from adderall - there's ZERO question about that. It shouldn't even be a choice if you understand the two. The good/"lucky" thing here is you don't have to do anything but not use the adderall and find something else (non chemical) that will motivate you.

Could it be that you don't like what you are studying? I found that things I once loved I no longer enjoyed and couldn't motivate myself to do them, but I found other things where I was enthusiastic to do them. Or could the motivation before all been chemically induced and is THAT what you are looking for? It's kind of like people chasing the high of the first time taking Ecstasy - going to the clubs just doesn't do it anymore.

Having dealt with people going through a schizophrenic crisis and being in a psychosis is something that would/should make anyone stay away from this drug if it has a chance of inducing it. It is actually worse (mentally) than that crazy drug that was going around in Fl for a while that made people walk all crazy and act like zombies. It's probably even worse than a really bad night on bath salts.

(disclaimer - this is all from first hand observations and reports from people who have gone through it).

*edit - dosing can be difficult as each person is different. I'd suggest seeing if you can get by with once a day, preferably in the morning or early and to stop taking it as early in the day as possible b/c it will allow you to fall asleep much easier and give your brain time to shut down before it has to then again shut down for sleep. I think there were studies that people who took it too close to bed ( even 4-6 hours before) had very very poor quality sleep. They were asleep but it wasn't really restful for their brain and body. I think this might be why some meth and speed addicts end up looking like they do - their body/brain never really shuts down.

I'd suspect if you allow for a good nights sleep by regimenting like I suggested, it may give you better "protection" from the negative side effects and potentials for paranoia and triggering the schizophrenia. I think this would also help keep the needed dosage lower than what it might be otherwise. All this being said, I'm not a doctor and I'd highly suggest getting advice from them about how to take it.

[Edited on 7-25-2020 by RogueRose]

Yttrium2 - 25-7-2020 at 13:35

how do stimulants effect schizophrenia? I here the doctors say they can increase paranoia? but how? --


I mean I dont really believe in general anxiety, I always think that there is a reason behind fear, and that people don't get fearful over nothing.

karlos³ - 25-7-2020 at 13:41

They start a schizophrenic episode very readily.
Just don't take them.

Yttrium2 - 25-7-2020 at 13:41

I get fearful that my dream girl is listening through the grapevine

I get fearful that I'm being watched followed, -- albeit a bit irrationally.






The proof is in the pudding - I am going to let this be my final remark. I think I am done with sciencemadness.

karlos³ - 25-7-2020 at 13:48

Exactly this is what I meant.

Tsjerk - 25-7-2020 at 13:53

Anxiety is a process deeply anchored in the brain, for example many people are afraid of spiders and snakes. That fear is genetically encoded and useful for avoiding dangers situations. But if something goes wrong in that system you can get for example phobia or anxiety disorders. It is just like schizophrenia, something goes wrong in the wiring of the brain.

Stimulants cause psychosis and paranoia because they activate the parts of the brain associated with those processes. They activate the brain, which is the cause of psychosis and paranoia: a too active brain.

Tsjerk - 25-7-2020 at 13:57

Most people can handle a bit of stimulants without going crazy, but if you are already experiencing irrational fears and are vulnerable to psychosis they are the last drugs you want to take.

Yttrium2 - 25-7-2020 at 15:43

Well, it was going to be my last post. One last thought. -- If I am delusional, do the amphetamines just speed up my path to/through the trajectory? I mean antipsychotics will slow me down, but isn't the end scenario still inevitable? I'm not sure if I'm conflating things here, but it seems to me that some things ought to be worked through mentally, amps speed this process up, antipsychotics slow it down.

Slowing me down isn't necessarily more time to think, because I'll be putting less effort forth into my thoughts. Effort counts.
I'm not trying to be argumentative, this is a new thought here that I am posting.


I mean its going to make me more energetic, and if I focus on the bad, or am bad, than the outcome will be bad









I'm meaning to say that
Calming down and forgetting, or should I say, thinking about them less often doesn't make my problems go away.
Eventually things have to be worked through, effort + time. -- effort + time heals a lot. antipsychotics may make me produce less effort, but more time passes... It seems that some things must be thought through, and this is what is takin time and effort.

How *specifically* do antipsychotics/legal stimulants increase/reduce paranoia and delusional thinking?
Antipsychotics -- how do they reduce paranoia/delusional thinking and -- Won't it also hurt forward movement academically?

Yttrium2 - 25-7-2020 at 15:47

If my thinking leads me to trouble, won't antipsychotics just slow the process down, but not change it?

Syn the Sizer - 25-7-2020 at 16:13

Yttrium2

counseling is more than a pep-talk, yes it is that but it is also so much more. They may help figure out what is causing the learning block and help develop skills to deal with it. Cognitive therapy will help you change the way you view things to put more faith in yourself so you can see you don't need the drugs to make you "better" you are already great and just need to see that in yourself.

To answer your question about who cares, look at all of us trying to convince you, you don't nees them, we obviously care enough for a fellow Mad Scientist to spend our time replying to this thread. If the last post is truly your final post I hope you consider what we have all been saying.

Syn the Sizer - 25-7-2020 at 16:23

Quote: Originally posted by Yttrium2  
If my thinking leads me to trouble, won't antipsychotics just slow the process down, but not change it?


That is a very valid question. You understand chemistry right, you understand that even changing a cation to the one below in the same group can make a difference right, maybe not a big one but a difference. Well our brain is the most intricate O-Chem lab in existence, and unfortunatly if we are lacking in a "reagent" our factory doesn't stop, it will replace it with an analogue or a similar reagent or run with a deficiency.

What medication does is replace the deficiency or at very least give the lab a derivative or precursor to what we are missing. Sometimes that part of the brain is damaged from voluntary or involuntary causes and you need a new reagent to compensate for what will never be there again.

Sometimes it is a process to find the right medication but it will make you feel better.

RogueRose - 25-7-2020 at 16:38

Quote: Originally posted by Yttrium2  
Well, it was going to be my last post. One last thought. -- If I am delusional, do the amphetamines just speed up my path to/through the trajectory? I mean antipsychotics will slow me down, but isn't the end scenario still inevitable? I'm not sure if I'm conflating things here, but it seems to me that some things ought to be worked through mentally, amps speed this process up, antipsychotics slow it down.

Slowing me down isn't necessarily more time to think, because I'll be putting less effort forth into my thoughts. Effort counts.
I'm not trying to be argumentative, this is a new thought here that I am posting.


I mean its going to make me more energetic, and if I focus on the bad, or am bad, than the outcome will be bad









I'm meaning to say that
Calming down and forgetting, or should I say, thinking about them less often doesn't make my problems go away.
Eventually things have to be worked through, effort + time. -- effort + time heals a lot. antipsychotics may make me produce less effort, but more time passes... It seems that some things must be thought through, and this is what is takin time and effort.

How *specifically* do antipsychotics/legal stimulants increase/reduce paranoia and delusional thinking?
Antipsychotics -- how do they reduce paranoia/delusional thinking and -- Won't it also hurt forward movement academically?


If you have a tendency to schizophrenia, paranoia, or whatever, amphetamines will basically open doors or create possibilities where it will be allowed to accellerate. Think about stewing over something that makes you really angry while on speed - you get even angrier. Now think about doing the same with schizo/paranoia - it makes it worse and exacerbates it.

Why don't you go read some medical stuff about this. Everyone here here has been EXPLICITY clear that it is a very bad idea, but you keep asking "why". DO you think this is a medical advice board? You came here asking how to trick the doctor into prescribing you meds and it has evolved into this. This is ridiculous at this point.

RogueRose - 25-7-2020 at 16:42

Ok, whatever you do, don't picture your mom fucking a donkey.


Things like that that people say can get into a persons head and you can't control it. If you could control 100% of your surroundings then you could control the schizophrenia/adderall combo easier but still not completely.

Can you control what comes into your head, ears, eyes 100% of the time? Can you control your thoughts 100% of the time? when in a psychotic episode, these thoughts/ideas are out of control, and speed makes this happen MUCH faster, with less control and they can slip in even when you are "normal" and can kick off an episode. Please go read about this.


[Edited on 7-26-2020 by RogueRose]

karlos³ - 25-7-2020 at 16:52

Quote: Originally posted by RogueRose  
Ok, whatever you do, don't picture your mom fucking a donkey.

I guess he has again deleted his replies :o


"Hey whats this there, under the bridge?"
"is it a human?"
"is it an animal?"
"Oh no, its a troll!" :cool:

[Edited on 26-7-2020 by karlos³]

RogueRose - 25-7-2020 at 17:42

Quote: Originally posted by karlos³  
Quote: Originally posted by RogueRose  
Ok, whatever you do, don't picture your mom fucking a donkey.

I guess he has again deleted his replies :o


"Hey whats this there, under the bridge?"
"is it a human?"
"is it an animal?"
"Oh no, its a troll!" :cool:

[Edited on 26-7-2020 by karlos³]

Are you talking to me or about the OP? Did he reply to me. Are the quotes for me or what?

I wrote that because he seems to think he can control what his brain is going to do and think about, and that the schizophrenia isn't going to slip in, and that the adderall isn't going to prop open the door and let in every rancid thought that comes along - to stick around and move on in. That quote was a bad way to demonstrate that he can't control his surroundings and how it effects what he thinks.

Syn the Sizer - 25-7-2020 at 18:40

I am sure it was for the OP, he has deleted previous messages after Karlos replied. It just looked like you were replying, but I understand now with your explanation.

Tsjerk - 26-7-2020 at 00:23

@Yttrium2; please try to stay on your meds for a while. In consultation with your doctor you could maybe go up or down a bit, but try to find a range where your schizophrenia is controlled but the side effects are manageable. The less Adderall/other stimulants you take on the side, the easier it will be to find the right amount of medication.

When you find the right dosage for you and the longer you stick to it the more your brain will get used to them and the more tricks you will learn to cope with the side effects. In the long run you will become happier and productive. But experimenting with stimulants on the side will slow the process if you manage to find the sweet at all while taking Adderall.

Corrosive Joeseph - 26-7-2020 at 04:36

Quote: Originally posted by Yttrium2  

There is no such thing as an addict...


Strangely enough, denial is one of the major symptoms.


/CJ

Yttrium2 - 26-7-2020 at 11:18

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LgHwRiJUgo

Adderal

sodium_stearate - 26-7-2020 at 12:26

Adderal will fuck you up way, way worse than you
already think you are.

Stay away from that shit.:cool:

Syn the Sizer - 26-7-2020 at 12:38

I think it's about time for this post to go to detritus.

karlos³ - 26-7-2020 at 13:11

Quote: Originally posted by Syn the Sizer  
I think it's about time for this post to go to detritus.

My thought too.
Our fault we took him serious and tried really to help.
Maybe he will understand when he comes down of whatever stuff he is using right now.

@RogueRose, of course I haven't meant you.

Vomaturge - 26-7-2020 at 13:35

Quote: Originally posted by karlos³  
Quote: Originally posted by RogueRose  
Ok, whatever you do, don't picture your mom fucking a donkey.

I guess he has again deleted his replies :o


"Hey whats this there, under the bridge?"
"is it a human?"
"is it an animal?"
"Oh no, its a troll!" :cool:

[Edited on 26-7-2020 by karlos³]


in this context, I'd expect it to be not a troll, but a human-donkey hybrid. But I can't add anything really good to this conversation because I'm not an expert on addiction or schizophrenia.

j_sum1 - 26-7-2020 at 20:01

I don't think this is going anywhere good. (Even though I have read only about half of it.)
The OP is not listening to anything except those things that support his own pre-made decisions. He has also deleted a number of posts – which frankly is not honest.
Bottom line though is that we just cannot be here to dish out medical advice. For that reason alone this has to be appended to file thirteen.