Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Chlorate and benzoate mixture initiation power

darolf26 - 2-9-2021 at 10:34

Some time ago I found the thread here discussing the „molten whistle mix“ so I wanted to try something like this myself.
I put some stereometrical mixture of potassium benzoate and potassium chlorate (1,5 g) in a used 5,56mm round and detonated it underground. The results can be seen in the pics below. I don’t have much experience in this field so I‘m asking you. Do you guys think this would have any intimation power in this amount ?

F56D05C9-4C50-4D87-AD5E-BF6A7D7AA37B.jpeg - 4.9MB 861CC932-8D3E-44E0-AD8D-436381FF594B.jpeg - 1.6MB

Gargamel - 5-9-2021 at 08:47

Some thoughts:

I tried chlorate whistle for very small rockets and found it's a different animal compared to the perchlorate mix. A Cato does not only shred the motor but definitely has some shattering power.

What kind of fuse is that?

Your test is flawed: it's hard to judge if the effect will initiate anything.
Will it dent a metal plate?
If you press some 0,5g ETN into the round and then your mix above, and place the device on 2-3mm steel - does it punch a hole?

Ideally the WM should be granulated with water, and maybe spiced up with a little catalyst.

You should also be aware that the chlorate whistle is very sensitive. By crimping metal could scratch on metal, whith whistle dust in between - ouch.

[Edited on 5-9-2021 by Gargamel]

Laboratory of Liptakov - 9-9-2021 at 12:44

Gargamel said it all. If you manage to make a hole in 2mm steel with this mixture (+ ETN in cavity 6 - 8 mm ), it will be a great success and interesting. After will coming time for next development, testing and verification.

Microtek - 10-9-2021 at 01:14

Black powder has been used for initiating NG, so I'm quite sure this mix could initiate sensitive secondaries like ETN (or NG). However, I don't think it would be a good idea. Personally, I would be less concerned about the sensitivity than the chemical instability in the presence of any impurities. Also, I would guess that there is a minimum practical size initiator, which tends to make any mishaps more serious.

Bert - 10-9-2021 at 10:19

Darolf26: You do not mention if you melted that whistle mix? I don't recommend doing so! I ESPECIALLY do not recommend doing so in contact with a Copper based alloy such as cartridge brass- Cu catalyzes decomposition of chlorate (and perchlorate). To the extent that some chlorate oxidized blue and purple star mixes made with Copper powder (or worse yet, fused black Copper sulfide) and water based binders had a reputation for setting themselves off during drying.

"Initiating HE" covers a wide range of possibilities. As L of L states, got to test against witness plates and then on specific base charges to know anything.

As far as using BP squibs to detonate NG, Nobel went to caps using what we now think of as primary explosives after briefly trying BP with mixed results, as I recall. Hi Microtek! Long time-

Some in PGI have successfully used a 3" Potassium perchlorate:Aluminum flash powder salute attached to the time fuse or spolette to initiate an 8" or larger "bottom shot" charge of ammonium nitrate:Al powder... But that's not going to work with a typical insensitive commercial/military HE.

Whistle mixes, especially the chlorate oxidized version, probably would have higher velocity and might be more effective. But I'd rather not handle them, particularly while hot! Still got all 10, want to keep 'em.

[Edited on 9-10-2021 by Bert]

Nitrosio - 11-9-2021 at 03:03

Take NH4ClO4 + Hexamine or AlMg, ETN etc ...

j_sum1 - 11-9-2021 at 04:47

Closed at OP's request.