Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Quaternary pyridine compounds

Boffis - 11-10-2023 at 14:01

The route to quaternary pyridinium salts via alkyl halide is well known and there are several examples in posts on SM. But can other alkylating agent such as methyl tosylate or dimethyl sulphate be used?

I have found several general chemistry books that state that they can but the claims are un-referenced and I can't find an actual example. I did find one reference that I haven't checked out yet that claims that even methyl picrate (2,4,6-trinitroanisole) reacts with pyridine to give 1-methylpyridinium picrate!! So surely more reactive alkylating reagents such as dimethyl sulphate do but there appear to be few published examples in spite of the fact that the presence of iodide ions in the reaction mixture would be problematic. Has anyone on the board even seen or used a procedure that uses quaternarisation of simple pyridines with such reagents?

That then raises the question of reaction ratios. Would dimethyl sulphate react 1:1 or 1:2 i.e. would the product be methylpyridinium methylsulphate or bis(methylpyridinium)-sulphate or are both possible?

My interest is in the possibility of producing iodide /halogen free cyanine dyes

Quieraña - 12-12-2023 at 14:23

I can't answer your question, but I recognized an otc methylating agent, very mild by comparison to methylene chloride: dimethyl carbonate. It's available at hardware stores as dichloromethane's replacement.

Boffis - 2-1-2024 at 04:15

Quote: Originally posted by Quieraña  
It's available at hardware stores as dichloromethane's replacement.


What is? Methylpyridinium methylsulphate?

andyloris - 2-1-2024 at 04:54

I think he meant that dimethyl carbonate was available at hardware stores as dichloromethane replacement.
I am not sure that dimethyl carbonate would alkylate pyridine since the latter is such a poor nucleophile...
Moreover, methylations using dimethyl carbonate seem only to proceed at temperatures above 120°C.
I found a paper on the N-methyl alkylation of pyridine using Alcohols and Carboxylate Esters.

[Edited on 2-1-2024 by andyloris]

clearly_not_atara - 3-1-2024 at 14:02

A few studies suggest that it works with mesylates:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2210271X1...

The tosylate is very likely similar. Pyridine has very low steric hindrance, which is the only reason I can think of why tosylates would not react like halides (even then for SN2 it shouldn't matter).

MeOTs can bee had by the rxn of TsOH with Me2CO3 according to some papers in the old methylation thread.

Niklas - 5-1-2024 at 04:15

Quote: Originally posted by Quieraña  
but I recognized an otc methylating agent, very mild by comparison to methylene chloride: dimethyl carbonate.


Using dimethylcarbonate as a methylating agent doesn’t really work unfortunately, to get its reactions going you pretty much always need an autoclave making it quite inaccessible for amateur chemists..
For simpler substrates dimethyloxalate would have potential tho, since apparently, under addition of potassium carbonate, it can act as a methylating agent to both alcohols and amines if kept under reflux in DMF [1]. In general I don’t think the method is too great, because of the high temperatures required being able to decompose lots of substrates and the parallel decomposition of the solvent causing side reactions to occur, I believe it may still be suitable to be used in home labs tho

[1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00404...

kmno4 - 5-1-2024 at 12:05

Quote: Originally posted by Boffis  
.... or dimethyl sulphate be used?

Such methylation of pyridine by DMS is commonly known, for example here : http://www.orgsyn.org/demo.aspx?prep=CV2P0419
It is strange that you could not find this or similar procedure....