Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Cheapest, best, most available ammonium nitrate sensitizers?

Weeblordd - 29-1-2024 at 13:06

What are some of the best cheapest, most easily available sensitizers worth adding to ammonium nitrate?

And also:
I want to detonate 2000g ammonal (95:5 an:al) and 500g ANSU (85:15 an:su) below the ammonal, this would be my first time detonating high explosives, is 5-15g melt-cast ETN enough to detonate ammonal? Stole the idea from this video
The idea is that I'd take a 20ml syringe, melt ETN inside of it at 65-80c, let it cool, then on a paper towel place some ETN, perhaps 0.5-1.0g, wrap it up somewhat tightly, add a fuse to it and secure it well with duct tape, and I'd add this paper toweled ETN on top of the melt-cast ETN, and this detonator would be inside the main charge of ammonal + ANSU. What are the chances for a complete detonation? high?

dettoo456 - 29-1-2024 at 15:36

The use of PETN-based boosters to initiate Ammonal is fairly common so you could probably find info on it easily in a blasting handbook. Though, a 5.56 round is generally much safer than playing around with detonators and boosters, especially if you already have ammonal.

The cheapest sensitizer is likely NM or glass microballoons (though these don’t sensitize that much).

Also, if this is your first time setting off HE, you probably shouldn’t be setting off a 2.5kg charge. 5g of any HE is enough to kill you in the right setting, if you aren’t careful.

Try to detonate 1g ETN from 15ft away - it should humble you a little bit.

And

Sir_Gawain - 29-1-2024 at 16:16

Your makeshift “detonator” will very likely not work. Worst case scenario, it lights on fire and your entire charge smolders away. ETN can be detonated by heat, but it must be tightly confined in aluminum foil and heated for an extended period of time. Also, I agree with dettoo456; this charge is 1000x too large for your first.

Sir_Gawain - 29-1-2024 at 16:18

Actually, worst case scenario is it smoldering until you go over and check on it, THEN exploding.

Laboratory of Liptakov - 30-1-2024 at 08:40

Cheapest and most available senzitizer (and fuel ) for AN is resin from pine 15%. Soluble in ethanol.
Best senzitizer is (and fuel) hexamine 8,7%. This mixture called as ammotropine. For example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTBCP4COtkU
By video, Ammotropine is more powerful and cheaper than AN-AL. Ammotropine is sensitive on 300mg ETN. From 300mg ETN is possible use any size of main charge at density 1,0 - 1.25g/cm3. Wihout next booster.
Any bigger booster over 1g is waste of expensive ETN or else molecular EM....:cool:

DennyDevHE77 - 30-1-2024 at 09:38

I'd like to add about the ammotropin. Its optimum density is 1.24 g/mL. At this density, the detonation velocity is 5700 m/s. In a 1.5-inch-diameter steel tube. Note that it is easily pressed to this density, even by hand (at least hot for sure), so it can be easily re-pressed higher. At 1.44 the detonation velocity is already 4090 m/s. Well, cast it almost does not detonate at all.

Above we talked about the composition (90/9/1 ammonium nitrate/urotropin/rosin).

Rosin is needed to form a fine crystalline structure more capable of detonation. But in general it is not necessary, especially in charges of several kilograms and from a powerful detonator.

When preparing, after solidification, but while the ammotropine is still hot, I advise you to pass it through a meat grinder, or smash it with a hammer, and then in a mortar/grinder. But if it solidifies completely, it will become very hard.

OneEyedPyro - 30-1-2024 at 10:33

The detonator is easily the most crucial part to get right in terms of safety. Premature detonation from a fuse jump or delayed detonation from a smoldering fuse are things to be very careful about, especially with big main charges.

Counting on ETN undergoing DDT with a simple fuse is rudimentary and unreliable to say the least. I wouldn't even bother trying your cap design. Flash powder works reliably as a primary for pressed ETN in large enough amounts in a strong enough cap body such as a .223 casing.

Etanol - 30-1-2024 at 10:37

Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov  
This mixture called as ammotropine. For example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTBCP4COtkU
By video, Ammotropine is more powerful and cheaper than AN-AL.

Ammotropin is compared to a very weak ammonal ratio in this video. This comparison is incorrect.
Quote: Originally posted by DennyDevHE77  
I'd like to add about the ammotropin. Its optimum density is 1.24 g/mL. At this density, the detonation velocity is 5700 m/s. In a 1.5-inch-diameter steel tube. Note that it is easily pressed to this density, even by hand (at least hot for sure), so it can be easily re-pressed higher. At 1.44 the detonation velocity is already 4090 m/s. Well, cast it almost does not detonate at all.

The optimal density depends on the size and shell of charge. For a 1.5 inch steel pipe it is like this. For another pipe or shellless charge it is different.

5-8% micronized aluminum is a good sensitizer. But bad fuel.
Urotropin is a good fuel, but a bad sensitizer.
Ethylendiamine nitrate is a good fuel and good sensitizer.
You can use EGDN, PETN, ETN, acetone peroxide as a sensitizer.

[Edited on 30-1-2024 by Etanol]

Sir_Gawain - 30-1-2024 at 11:25

Please do not use acetone peroxide for a sensitizer. I’ve gotten ETN to fairly reliably detonate from 3 micron aluminum powder/copper oxide thermite. It needs strong confinement, though. I’ve achieved a 100% success rate using a 1ųF microwave oven capacitor charged to 4kv discharged through a very thin wire.

Energetics-testin - 30-1-2024 at 13:21

https://youtu.be/UfXbgBGDmiQ?si=mbGhZH0-lTGxIy_n
^^^^^
*my reliable ETN detonator.(heatshock)*
For the record you should really be concentrating more on making a reliable detonator design before doing any kind of experiment with secondaries,especially at these scales.

Sir_Gawain - 30-1-2024 at 14:20

Just don’t use that detonator with a flammable main charge! I once had a nitroglycerin dynamite charge fail to detonate and slowly smolder away. The few minutes while it burned were very tense.

DennyDevHE77 - 30-1-2024 at 20:47

Quote: Originally posted by Etanol  
You can use EGDN, PETN, ETN, acetone peroxide as a sensitizer.


I encourage it. PETN and ETH are very strong sensitizers. I immediately think of the so-called rock ammonite, it contains 24% phlegmatized wax hexogen. And the critical diameter of such ammonite without shell at 1.4 is only 5.7 mm. As is known, the detonator primer number 8 reliably detonates those substances whose critical diameter does not exceed 10 mm in pressed form. So such an ammonite is easily detonated by primary primers.

PETN or ETH, besides not covered with wax, should be even stronger sensitizers. Of course mixed explosives based on them will probably be more sensitive, but who cares about that at home.

DennyDevHE77 - 30-1-2024 at 21:07

By the way, as I see it, here on the forum everyone is obsessed with safe detonators, either without primary explosives at all (like heat shock ETH or PETN), or using low-sensitivity primary explosives (the same BNCP). And as I understood, people are concerned with them not as an object of study (when you make primary explosives for the sake of making them), but as a practical material for initiation.

This is not clear to me. More precisely, I can understand it when they make detonator caps that should retain their properties for years, which are not dangerous to carry in your pocket. Although personally, in that case, I used mercury fulminate or lead azide. But most people keep the detonators and the charges themselves for a couple of days at most, until they blow them up in the nearest forest. In my humble opinion, purely practically, even HMTD is fine. Press it into a syringe with a wand, wrap it in rags, throw it in a bag and safety is there. Even a few grams can be pressed, the worst that can happen is stun (although it is probably foolish to use more than a gram of HMTD, if the same PETN is available, for example). In any case, it is much cheaper, faster and more convenient than messing around with complex low-sensitivity primary explosives complexes, or worrying about the unreliability of ETH/PETN explosion from thermal effects.

Again, though, all of my practices above are based on your hands being far away from the detonator. I've had people I know (almost all of them) press in their hands, in the steel legs of tripods, while smoking at the same time.

[Edited on 31-1-2024 by DennyDevHE77]

Energetics-testin - 30-1-2024 at 23:38

Quote: Originally posted by Sir_Gawain  
The few minutes while it burned were very tense.


I can imagine lol, yes the main charge should be insensitive to heat,or the detonator should be "stuffed" inside a copper tube of a diameter of 10mm and wall thickness of 2mm to limit the heat transfer to the main charge.

I forgot to say that the ETN used in my detonators is also mixed with either 5%Mg or 5% Al for an even more reliable thermal shock detonator.

We are obsessed over safe and reliable detonators because we like our digits.

Primaries are more suceptible of detonating during manipulation compared to secondaries,thats why I experiment with new NPED's designs, so that hopefully one day, primary explosive(most of them toxic)can be completely fazed out of detonators.

Laboratory of Liptakov - 31-1-2024 at 00:33

Research into safe detonators is researched because otherwise there would be nothing to research......:cool:

Weeblordd - 31-1-2024 at 04:43

Quote: Originally posted by Sir_Gawain  
Your makeshift “detonator” will very likely not work.


So 5-15g melt-cast ETN with 1g unpressed ETN wouldn't be enough to detonate 2kg ammonal? Seriously? And using this idea from @Energetics-testin, 1g ETN charge (with 5% Al) encased in a layer of aluminum foil, surrounded with a mixture of potassium nitrate and sugar (or slow flashpowder, such as 55% KNO3, 33% Al, 14% S, it's an optimized ratio according to indian scientists) which is also encased in aluminum foil, ultimately making a slow and hot burning fuse that is able to heatshock ETN - this would be enough to detonate the 2kg? really? Also what's better: to connect a 20g ETN booster to the detonator or to add 20-30g ETN to 2kgs of ammonal in hopes of sensitizing it? I hope I can change my ammonal ratio to 85:15 and still detonate it with the previously mentioned detonator setup

Someone said my charge is 1000x too large to be my first, but I've been studying explosives of all kinds slowly but steadily for the past 7years, and I've some experience with injuries with low explosives so I'm extremely careful thanks to that, don't worry, having said that, I need some practice with HEs, and yes ofcourse I'll practice detonating ETN numerous times before attempting the main charge. The idea of detonating 2.5kg in total is set in stone, sorry. I want to see the explosive potential of a HE for my first detonation of a secondary high explosive.

Also, I don't yet have access to PETN, and probably won't have because its synthesis all the way from pentaerythritol is quite expensive, and don't wanna risk buying it. Nitromethane is insanely expensive here 1L for 74€. Good to know about pine resin, urotropine, EDGN and PETN though, thank y'all for all the help so far

DennyDevHE77 - 31-1-2024 at 05:27

5-15 g of ETH is more than enough to detonate most powdered, low-pressure ammonium nitrate explosives. And it makes no sense to add 30 g of ETH to 2 kg of mixture, it is only 1.5%. The share of secondary explosive for sensitization is usually at least 10%. And usually 15-20%.

And don't even listen to "first explosion". My first explosion in high school was 2.4 kg of sugar dynamon. Then 7 kilograms. I was a schoolboy then, inexperienced, I used detonators made of 15g of acetone peroxide (though I didn't even carry them in my hands then).

You can make pentaerythritol yourself, or buy it. In many countries, after all, bureaucracy, if a substance is not included in certain lists, it is considered legal. Usually the big problem is that often reagents can only be sold in large quantities. 25-50 kilograms each.

Sir_Gawain - 31-1-2024 at 06:19

Quote: Originally posted by Weeblordd  
Quote: Originally posted by Sir_Gawain  
Your makeshift “detonator” will very likely not work.


So 5-15g melt-cast ETN with 1g unpressed ETN wouldn't be enough to detonate 2kg ammonal? Seriously? And using this idea from @Energetics-testin, 1g ETN charge (with 5% Al) encased in a layer of aluminum foil, surrounded with a mixture of potassium nitrate and sugar (or slow flashpowder, such as 55% KNO3, 33% Al, 14% S, it's an optimized ratio according to indian scientists) which is also encased in aluminum foil, ultimately making a slow and hot burning fuse that is able to heatshock ETN - this would be enough to detonate the 2kg?

Someone said my charge is 1000x too large to be my first, but I've been studying explosives of all kinds slowly but steadily for the past 7years, and I've some experience with injuries with low explosives so I'm extremely careful thanks to that, don't worry, having said that, I need some practice with HEs, and yes ofcourse I'll practice detonating ETN numerous times before attempting the main charge. The idea of detonating 2.5kg in total is set in stone, sorry. I want to see the explosive potential of a HE for my first detonation of a secondary high explosive.

The detonator I was dubious of was the first one you described with only ETN and a fuse. Adding some sort of slow burning pyrotechnic composition to cook off ETN confined in aluminum foil seems fairly reliable. Also, I’ve found a 1 gram ETN detonator to reliably and powerfully set off 100g ammonal, when it’s powdered. Prilled ammonium nitrate/aluminum powder never fully detonated.

Testing your detonators and small ETN charges is very good. Using an untested detonator with a huge charge was what I was referring to as a bad idea.


As far as crappy detonators go, I should know a bit about that. My first detonator was a .22 shell filled with homemade black powder inside a tiny vial of nitroglycerin! I was like, thirteen. It did work though.

OneEyedPyro - 31-1-2024 at 07:28

Powdered ammonal at an 85/15 ratio makes for a relatively powerful and easy to detonate booster material in the first place. It makes no sense to use a 10+ gram ETN booster when a simple 0.5 gram cap of pressed ETN is sufficient to detonate a 50 gram ammonal booster which in turn is capable of detonating any main charge.

So long as you keep everything dry, an oxygen balanced mix of powdered AN and powdered sugar with the addition of a few percent aluminum is by all means sensitive enough to be detonated with a small booster.

You seem determined to use thermal shock to detonate your ETN. In order to get that working reliably you want a rapid application of heat such as flash or black powder and strong confinement, not a slow heating confined in aluminum foil which is liable to give deflagration or partial detonation.

You could simply take a rifle casing, add a bit of flash or black powder to the bottom then add your ETN on top with an insulated fuse running all the way to the bottom as to not prematurely ignite the ETN.
This will work very reliably so long as everything is pressed in well enough to prevent the layers from mixing.

Weeblordd - 31-1-2024 at 11:11

Quote: Originally posted by DennyDevHE77  
And don't even listen to "first explosion".


Why not? You mean to cover my ears? Idk about that, I'd prefer not to (I wanna experience it in all its brilliance)
Quote: Originally posted by DennyDevHE77  
And don't even listen to "first explosion".
You can make pentaerythritol yourself, or buy it. In many countries, after all, bureaucracy, if a substance is not included in certain lists, it is considered legal. Usually the big problem is that often reagents can only be sold in large quantities. 25-50 kilograms each.


True, you can synth pentaerythritol but its quite a bit more expensive than synthing ETN, while PETN doesn't have much more power than ETN. I'd be more interested in synthesizing ANQN short for "1-Amino-3-nitroguanidine Nitrate" det velocity 9500m/s

B(a)P - 31-1-2024 at 11:12

Quote: Originally posted by Weeblordd  


Someone said my charge is 1000x too large to be my first, but I've been studying explosives of all kinds slowly but steadily for the past 7years, and I've some experience with injuries with low explosives so I'm extremely careful thanks to that, don't worry, having said that, I need some practice with HEs, and yes ofcourse I'll practice detonating ETN numerous times before attempting the main charge. The idea of detonating 2.5kg in total is set in stone, sorry. I want to see the explosive potential of a HE for my first detonation of a secondary high explosive.



Don't underestimate how far you need to be from a charge of this size, particularly if you are having it do work. When you 'practice detonating ETN numerous times' do it using the exact same method you intend for the main charge, including giving yourself time (with plenty to spare) to get to a safe distance for your 2.5 kg charge.

Sir_Gawain - 31-1-2024 at 11:43

2.5 kg of high explosive can send a rock through your skull from an impressive distance. Also, using a fuse with a charge this size is generally a bad idea.

Weeblordd - 31-1-2024 at 11:46

Glad to hear, also, by chance the bigger main charge - the bigger the booster is needed? if 1g ETN can detonate 100g ammonal. Perhaps you'd need 5g ETN to detonate 1000g? If yes, does it increase linearly or non-linearly?
Quote: Originally posted by OneEyedPyro  

So long as you keep everything dry, an oxygen balanced mix of powdered AN and powdered sugar with the addition of a few percent aluminum is by all means sensitive enough to be detonated with a small booster.


Good to know, can you direct me to some really good instructions on explosive engineering and design? I wanna check if my current instructions are right. But according to my calculations, for ANSU (24NH4NO3 + 2C6H12O6 = + 120H2O + 12CO2 + 6N2 + 12NO2 + 12NO + 6N2O) the an:su with the highest detonation power would be 73.7% ammonium nitrate and 26.3% sugar. Is that correct? Does this mean its oxygen balanced? Sorry I started learning this stuff a couple days ago
Quote: Originally posted by OneEyedPyro  

You seem determined to use thermal shock to detonate your ETN. In order to get that working reliably you want a rapid application of heat such as flash or black powder and strong confinement, not a slow heating confined in aluminum foil which is liable to give deflagration or partial detonation.


I see, well in that case I'll use either BP or FP and confine it in a paper tube made of regular paper and PVA glue, then hot glue both ends, hopefully this works reliably to detonate ETN, thanks for the idea, it probably won't take many attempts to find the answer to this
Quote: Originally posted by OneEyedPyro  

You could simply take a rifle casing, add a bit of flash or black powder to the bottom then add your ETN on top with an insulated fuse running all the way to the bottom as to not prematurely ignite the ETN.
This will work very reliably so long as everything is pressed in well enough to prevent the layers from mixing.


Sadly I live in Europe where guns and rifle casings are highly difficut to get, but thanks for this idea as well, I can apply it to my paper tube idea, can use a stronger tube as well

Also, what method do you use to cheaply test the reliability of a detonator with a small main charge? One idea that I can think of is: make a tower/column of ammonal or ansu and add the detonator in the top of the tower, detonate it and see if the secondary high explosive is gone without a trace?- if there are traces, it didn't detonate or didn't fully detonate, and if no traces then I guess full detonation
Quote: Originally posted by B(a)P  

Don't underestimate how far you need to be from a charge of this size, particularly if you are having it do work. When you 'practice detonating ETN numerous times' do it using the exact same method you intend for the main charge, including giving yourself time (with plenty to spare) to get to a safe distance for your 2.5 kg charge.


Well yes but, I'd prefer a distance of 100-200meters (I will make sure there are zero fragments, will detonate in the air 1-2m away from the ground), hope that distance is enough and won't damage my hearing, will do it in the middle of a forest


[Edited on 31-1-2024 by Weeblordd]

Sir_Gawain - 31-1-2024 at 11:53

Set up some cardboard cutouts at various distances from the charge (1m, 2m, 3m, etc.) to see the blast radius. :D

Sir_Gawain - 31-1-2024 at 12:40

Quote: Originally posted by Weeblordd  

Good to know, can you direct me to some really good instructions on explosive engineering and design? I wanna check if my current instructions are right. But according to my calculations, for ANSU (24NH4NO3 + 2C6H12O6 = + 120H2O + 12CO2 + 6N2 + 12NO2 + 12NO + 6N2O) the an:su with the highest detonation power would be 73.7% ammonium nitrate and 26.3% sugar. Is that correct? Does this mean it’s oxygen balanced? Sorry I started learning this stuff a couple days ago.


Yes, your math is correct, but the formula for sucrose is C12H22O11. The correct equation is: 24NH4NO3+ C12H22O11 = 59H2O+12CO2+24N2. AN molar mass is 80, sucrose molar mass is 342.3 so the composition by weight is 84.9% AN and 15.1% sucrose.

OneEyedPyro - 31-1-2024 at 12:48

A high explosive will continue to sustain its own detonation indefinitely so long as it is at what's called critical diameter. If you filled a 30 centimeter wide pipe with ammonal it could be set off with a single small blasting cap and regardless of how long that pipe is the detonation would sustain itself.

Sugar has an oxygen balance of -112, ammonium nitrate is +20. So it would take about 18 grams of sugar per 100 grams of ammonium nitrate to achieve a neutral OB. You want about an 85/15 ratio of AN to sugar, just as Gawain said.

You can use copper tubing pinched or hammered shut at one end in place of ammo casings, just don't go squeezing or hammering the other end once it's got ETN inside.

DennyDevHE77 - 31-1-2024 at 13:03

Quote: Originally posted by Weeblordd  
Why not? You mean to cover my ears? Idk about that, I'd prefer not to (I wanna experience it in all its brilliance)


What I meant was, don't listen to those people who say things like "start with small amounts and then move on to bigger ones", "the first blast doesn't have to be big", and stuff like that. And above I actually gave as an example that I myself started with a few kilograms, and nothing bad happened. Ammonium nitrate explosives are very safe, there is no reason to be afraid of making them in large quantities.
Quote: Originally posted by Weeblordd  
while PETN doesn't have much more power than ETN


In fact, in a domestic setting, pure ETN will be more powerful than PETN, as ETN can be melted, while PETN will require a hydraulic press to achieve high density. So even though PETN is more powerful at 150-200 m/s, ETN can be poured and pressed more easily, which is preferable for most people.

The benefit of PETN is high yield with low acid consumption. For 200 ml of sulfuric acid you can make 50-60 g of ETN (70% nitric acid method), or 220 g of PETN.
Quote: Originally posted by Weeblordd  
more interested in synthesizing ANQN short for "1-Amino-3-nitroguanidine Nitrate" det velocity 9500m/s


Guanidine derivatives have poor energy content and explosion temperature. The same dinitroguanidine is at the level of HMX in terms of density and detonation velocity. But in practice it shows itself at the level of less powerful RDX.



[Edited on 31-1-2024 by DennyDevHE77]

Weeblordd - 31-1-2024 at 15:12

Great idea, and damn I mistook sucrose for glucose lol, my bad, but interesting. How come? Sucrose is C12H22O11, yes. Now, 12(+4) + 22(+1) + 6(-2), 48 + 22 + (-12) = 58 - 12 = 46, or is it -46? won't matter in the end. So sucrose a pyro valence of -46. Ammonium nitrate has a pyro valence of -2. So in the end. 46NH4NO3 + 2C12H22O11 = 25N2 + 13H2O + 24CO2. Please share your thoughts, I just started learning this stuff.

Sir_Gawain - 31-1-2024 at 18:41

I’m not exactly sure how you are doing it, but the way I calculate oxygen balance is to find how much oxygen the oxidizer can provide, (NH4NO3 = N2 + 2H2O + O, 1 mole of oxygen per mole of AN) and how much oxygen the fuel needs to convert it to water and carbon dioxide, (C12H22O11 = 11H2O + 12C, needs 24 moles of oxygen to combust one mole of sucrose) and divide the second number (24) by the first (1), and that’s how many moles (24) of oxidizer you need per one mole of fuel. By weight it’s 24•80=1920g AN and 1•342=342g sucrose, or 85% AN and 15% sucrose.

Energetics-testin - 31-1-2024 at 18:54

Quote: Originally posted by OneEyedPyro  


You seem determined to use thermal shock to detonate your ETN. In order to get that working reliably you want a rapid application of heat such as flash or black powder and strong confinement, not a slow heating confined in aluminum foil which is liable to give deflagration or partial detonation.

i totally forgot to mention what was the mixture used in my detonators, my fault.
I sometimes use other mixtures, but the one I use most is a traditional slow burning black powder with the ratio of 60,30,10.

To help with the transfer of heat to the main charge, "Stuffing" the detonator in a copper tube should help to keep the main charge from being overheated by the pyro mix before detonating.

DennyDevHE77 - 31-1-2024 at 21:00

Weeblordd, don't worry so much about a detailed oxygen balance (ratio) calculation. All fuel components for ammonium nitrate explosives can be conditionally divided into resinous substances or aluminum (the most powerful, breezability according to Hess 15-16 mm), fiber, sugars and everything else (medium, breezability about 13 mm), and hydrocarbon fuels (coal, diesel oil, paraffins, breezability 9-10 mm). By comparison, bulk TNT has 13 mm. Take components either as in historically used mixtures, or +- in stoichiometric ratio.

More importantly, the maximum detonation velocity of 3,800 to 4,000 m/s is achieved when these explosives are loaded into holes drilled in rock, with a diameter of about 150 mm or when exploding in narrower (100 mm) steel casings with a wall thickness of several mm. At diameters close to critical detonation velocity of 1500-1700 m/s is realized. In addition, for such explosives, from oxidizer and propellant, it is very important for uniform grinding of components, so that the decomposition products of some components do not prevail over others. If this happens, you increase the length of the shock wave front (the zone of chemical reactions increases), chemical losses of individual components increase, which has a bad effect on the detonation capability of the finished explosive (the tendency to deflagration, explosive combustion, increases). In simple words: power drops significantly, and some of the explosive often fails to react

Weeblordd - 1-2-2024 at 13:37

Quote: Originally posted by Sir_Gawain  
I’m not exactly sure how you are doing it, but the way I calculate oxygen balance is to find how much oxygen the oxidizer can provide, (NH4NO3 = N2 + 2H2O + O, 1 mole of oxygen per mole of AN) and how much oxygen the fuel needs to convert it to water and carbon dioxide, (C12H22O11 = 11H2O + 12C, needs 24 moles of oxygen to combust one mole of sucrose) and divide the second number (24) by the first (1), and that’s how many moles (24) of oxidizer you need per one mole of fuel. By weight it’s 24•80=1920g AN and 1•342=342g sucrose, or 85% AN and 15% sucrose.


Surprisingly I haven't yet heard of your method, the way I tried calculating things was explained in this video and also in this article. Thanks for the explanation though, helps a lot
Quote: Originally posted by Energetics-testin  

To help with the transfer of heat to the main charge, "Stuffing" the detonator in a copper tube should help to keep the main charge from being overheated by the pyro mix before detonating.


Great idea, I hope I can put my main detonator inside a bigger strong paper tube also made of regular paper and A4 glue, perhaps may work even better than a copper pipe to make sure the pyro mix doesn't ignite the ammonal charge
Quote: Originally posted by DennyDevHE77  
Weeblordd, don't worry so much about a detailed oxygen balance (ratio) calculation. All fuel components for ammonium nitrate explosives can be conditionally divided into resinous substances or aluminum (the most powerful, breezability according to Hess 15-16 mm), fiber, sugars and everything else (medium, breezability about 13 mm), and hydrocarbon fuels (coal, diesel oil, paraffins, breezability 9-10 mm). By comparison, bulk TNT has 13 mm. Take components either as in historically used mixtures, or +- in stoichiometric ratio.

More importantly, the maximum detonation velocity of 3,800 to 4,000 m/s is achieved when these explosives are loaded into holes drilled in rock, with a diameter of about 150 mm or when exploding in narrower (100 mm) steel casings with a wall thickness of several mm. At diameters close to critical detonation velocity of 1500-1700 m/s is realized. In addition, for such explosives, from oxidizer and propellant, it is very important for uniform grinding of components, so that the decomposition products of some components do not prevail over others. If this happens, you increase the length of the shock wave front (the zone of chemical reactions increases), chemical losses of individual components increase, which has a bad effect on the detonation capability of the finished explosive (the tendency to deflagration, explosive combustion, increases). In simple words: power drops significantly, and some of the explosive often fails to react


Big thanks, that's very useful information, so whenever people detonate ammonal charges attached to things like trees or metal plates, etc., only 1500-1700m/s VOD is reached, damn prob would have never realized. May I ask, what is breezability and hess? haven't heard of these terms before

Sir_Gawain - 1-2-2024 at 14:21

I think he meant brisance, and the Hess test is a measurement of how much a certain explosive flattens a lead cylinder.

OneEyedPyro - 1-2-2024 at 14:36

If you take -1600 and divide it by the molar mass of a substance then multiply it by the remaining surplus of fuel or oxygen you get the oxygen balance. For example, with methanol -1600 divided by its molar mass of 32 gives us a value of -50. CH3OH has 3 carbon, 4 hydrogen and 1 oxygen, since it takes 2 oxygen to oxidize a carbon we give it twice the value, it take 1 oxygen to oxidize 2 hydrogen atoms giving it a value of 0.5.

So (-1600/32=-50) x (6C+2H-1O=7) -50x-7 gives us an oxygen balance of -350.

averageaussie - 1-2-2024 at 14:37

Quote: Originally posted by Weeblordd  
Please share your thoughts, I just started learning this stuff.

Quote: Originally posted by Weeblordd  
but I've been studying explosives of all kinds slowly but steadily for the past 7years


Am I misunderstanding what you are saying here?

that aside, please be careful with detonating even a very small amount of explosive, it can be extremely dangerous as many others have pointed out.

Ammonal has a detonation velocity of about 4,400 meters per second [1], giving it an RE factor of about 0.75. this means you 2kg of it would be equivalent to 1.5 kg of tnt. conveniently, there is a study that uses exactly this amount, and it found that at a distance of 18 meters, injuries would still be sustained [2].

you are also using 500 grams of ANSU, which there is sadly little information on, at least none I could find. using ANFO as a rough comparison, your 500 grams is equivalent to about 400 grams of tnt, making up a total of nearly 2kg of tnt equivalent in total.
considering that you say in your original post that this would be your first detonation of a HE, this is, as we say in the industry, a terrible idea.

sources:
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonal
[2] https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Effects-generated-when-a...

Weeblordd - 1-2-2024 at 15:50

Quote: Originally posted by OneEyedPyro  
Sugar has an oxygen balance of -112, ammonium nitrate is +20. So it would take about 18 grams of sugar per 100 grams of ammonium nitrate to achieve a neutral OB. You want about an 85/15 ratio of AN to sugar, just as Gawain said.


Just out of curiosity, could you share your math behind this? Is this it (below)?
Quote: Originally posted by OneEyedPyro  
If you take -1600 and divide it by the molar mass of a substance then multiply it by the remaining surplus of fuel or oxygen you get the oxygen balance. For example, with methanol -1600 divided by its molar mass of 32 gives us a value of -50. CH3OH has 3 carbon, 4 hydrogen and 1 oxygen, since it takes 2 oxygen to oxidize a carbon we give it twice the value, it take 1 oxygen to oxidize 2 hydrogen atoms giving it a value of 0.5.

So (-1600/32=-50) x (6C+2H-1O=7) -50x-7 gives us an oxygen balance of -350.


And also, @DennyDevHE77, thanks for the info as well, y'all included
Quote: Originally posted by averageaussie  
Quote: Originally posted by Weeblordd  
Please share your thoughts, I just started learning this stuff.

Quote: Originally posted by Weeblordd  
but I've been studying explosives of all kinds slowly but steadily for the past 7years


Am I misunderstanding what you are saying here?

Ammonal has a detonation velocity of about 4,400 meters per second [1], giving it an RE factor of about 0.75.


To clarify, slowly but steadily I've been studying primarily only low explosives, not high explosives. When I said "I just started learning this stuff", I was referring to learning the math behind explosive design & engineering. Also, pretty please share the math behind the correlation between R.E. factor and velocity of detonation, sadly the 4.4km/s can only be achieved in a confined setting, when unconfined, only 1.5-1.7km/s. And also sorry I misspoke back there, I said it would be my first time ever detonating a HE and it's gonna be 2kg ammonal + 500g ansu. To correct myself - it will be my first detonation of a secondary high explosive, I'll be testing ETN numerous times, uh, on second thought ETN is both a primary and a secondary so nvm

[Edited on 2-2-2024 by Weeblordd]

[Edited on 2-2-2024 by Weeblordd]

OneEyedPyro - 1-2-2024 at 17:18

Sucrose has a molar mass of 342.3 and its formula is C12 H22 O11.
So, (-1600/342.3=-4.674) x (C24+H11-O11=24) -4.674x24 gives us -112.176.

Ammonium nitrate has a molar mass of 80 and its formula is NH4NO3.
So, (-1600/80=-20) x (2H-3O=1) this gives us -20 but since it's a surplus of oxygen that's actually +20.

So, (+20x85=+1700) (-112x15=-1680) 85/15 AN sugar is nearly perfectly oxygen balanced.

Sir_Gawain - 1-2-2024 at 17:35

Were is the -1600 number coming from? I feel like I'm missing something obvious...

dettoo456 - 1-2-2024 at 17:49

That formula (and the 1600 as a constant) is used for determining OB as a %. It’s the formula on Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org//wiki/Oxygen_balance) and is generally referred to for most EMs in literature.

You can work backwards from the derived OB% to form EM formulations depending on the desired OB%.

The method laid out in Dugan’s video is generally the same procedure but it’s a little more convoluted since you need to assign values to the atoms based on their valences, whereas the other method is quicker but requires MW.

Here is an automatic calculator in case anyone wants it - it’s from Klapotke’s lab: https://emto.eu/software/ob-calculator/

averageaussie - 1-2-2024 at 18:54

Quote: Originally posted by Weeblordd  
Also, pretty please share the math behind the correlation between R.E. factor and velocity of detonation, sadly the 4.4km/s can only be achieved in a confined setting, when unconfined, only 1.5-1.7km/s.

getting 0.75 re factor from 4.4km/s is based on the similar but slightly slower ANFO from the tnt equivalent page, in the table about RE factor.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TNT_equivalent#Relative_effect...
and the calculator here
https://www.omnicalculator.com/physics/tnt-equivalent

for a det speed of 1.5 to 1.7, it would be an RE factor of about 0.15 if I am correct.

Thank you for clearing up my confusions.

DennyDevHE77 - 1-2-2024 at 20:40

Quote: Originally posted by Weeblordd  
Big thanks, that's very useful information, so whenever people detonate ammonal charges attached to things like trees or metal plates, etc., only 1500-1700m/s VOD is reached, damn prob would have never realized. May I ask, what is breezability and hess? haven't heard of these terms before


Well, in the final analysis, not all mixed ammonia explosives behave this way, somewhere it is enough to increase the critical diameter a little so that it becomes optimal, the same ammotropine, as a homogeneous mixture (cast melt), albeit crushed, still has a much closer contact between the combustible and oxidizer particles, and the requirements for the critical and optimal detonation diameter are much less. Mixtures such as aluminum, machine oil, and ammonium nitrate are also often used; such mixtures detonate at 120-150 mm case with velocities of 4 km/s. Well and a big plus, they do not dust unlike just a mixture of aluminum and ammonium nitrate.

For example:

Granulite A-6 PA NH4NO3 - 90%, diesel fuel - 4%, aluminum - 6% Heat of explosion 1100 kcal/kg. Volume of explosion products 870l/kg. Fugacity 400-410ml. Detonation velocity 4200-5000m/s at density 0.95g/cm3 (Charge in a cardboard shell 150mm in diameter).detonation diameter is 100-120mm in a paper shell and 25-30mm in a steel shell.Minimum initiating impulse 5-10g TNT.

You see, the charge has widened by a few cm and the speed has increased to maximum. Note that this is a granulite, that is, a granular mixture. I suppose in the form of a fine powder, it will be no worse, maybe even better.

About the Hesse test. It used to be a popular breezability test for explosives. Brizancy is not precisely defined, it varies from country to country, there was even a big controversy where the argument was caused by the fact that the opponents understood different things by this term. But here by breezability is meant the ability to directly destroy the nearest medium in close contact with the explosive charge (usually 1.5 times the diameter of the charge). The Hess test takes a lead cylinder, puts a steel plate on it, and detonates a charge of explosive, 25g (PETN/RDX) for high explosives, 50g for medium explosives (TNT, TNP), and 100g for low explosives, the charge is taken at a density of 1.0 g/mL. Then measure how much the lead column has shortened. In mm.

I think Laboratory of Liptakov had a video with the tests of Hess, he threw them here on the forum not so long ago

But of course this test, as well as the Kast test and the sand test. They're all obsolete. Now they use the steel plate method. An explosive charge is detonated on several steel plates, and an ultrasonic scanner measures the resulting cavity.

[Edited on 2-2-2024 by DennyDevHE77]

Laboratory of Liptakov - 3-2-2024 at 02:49

Brizance by Hess..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxJLIk7dStw

Weeblordd - 4-2-2024 at 07:44

Quote: Originally posted by OneEyedPyro  
Sucrose has a molar mass of 342.3 and its formula is C12 H22 O11.
So, (-1600/342.3=-4.674) x (C24+H11-O11=24) -4.674x24 gives us -112.176.

Ammonium nitrate has a molar mass of 80 and its formula is NH4NO3.
So, (-1600/80=-20) x (2H-3O=1) this gives us -20 but since it's a surplus of oxygen that's actually +20.

So, (+20x85=+1700) (-112x15=-1680) 85/15 AN sugar is nearly perfectly oxygen balanced.


Thank you for sharing the math. The simpler the better

Quote: Originally posted by averageaussie  

getting 0.75 re factor from 4.4km/s is based on the similar but slightly slower ANFO from the tnt equivalent page, in the table about RE factor.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TNT_equivalent#Relative_effect...
and the calculator here
https://www.omnicalculator.com/physics/tnt-equivalent

for a det speed of 1.5 to 1.7, it would be an RE factor of about 0.15 if I am correct.


well ammonal getting a R.E. factor of 0.15 is rather low but sorry my bad, to reach 4.4km/s for VOD for ammonal it's more about critical diameter than confinement but then again, many factors are at play as you know.
Quote: Originally posted by DennyDevHE77  

Granulite A-6 PA NH4NO3 - 90%, diesel fuel - 4%, aluminum - 6% Heat of explosion 1100 kcal/kg. Volume of explosion products 870l/kg. Fugacity 400-410ml. Detonation velocity 4200-5000m/s at density 0.95g/cm3 (Charge in a cardboard shell 150mm in diameter).detonation diameter is 100-120mm in a paper shell and 25-30mm in a steel shell.Minimum initiating impulse 5-10g TNT.

You see, the charge has widened by a few cm and the speed has increased to maximum. Note that this is a granulite, that is, a granular mixture. I suppose in the form of a fine powder, it will be no worse, maybe even better.


yeah, very interesting, I also think powder form would be superior, hopefully. Also, that is an amazing mixture because it seems to be very powerful for being extremely cheap, do you know any other cheap as hell AN-based explosives?

Cool to see a HESS test in action, thx for sharing.

Nemo_Tenetur - 4-2-2024 at 09:55

The critical diameter seems to be a complex phenomenom, at least in such Ammonal mixtures. For my understanding a close to oxygen balanced mixture should have the smallest critical diameter, but the reality seems to be different.

Zygmunt et. al. performed and published some tests in 2009. To my surprise, with as little as 5 percent aluminum the smallest critical diameter was achieved, well below 10 mm, whereas a close to oxygen balanced mixture (about 18 percent aluminum) was almost the double value, about 15 mm.

I remember that the same happens with the sensitivity of such mixtures ( with 5 % aluminum considerably more sensitive than with 18 percent), although detonation velocity and explosive strength goes on par with oxygen balance - why ?





20240204_181814.jpg - 2.7MB

DennyDevHE77 - 4-2-2024 at 11:13

The same phenomenon is observed in ANFO mixtures. at 3% of the diesel fuel, the critical diameter is 30 mm, at 6% (oxygen balanced) it is already 40 mm.

The explanation is that ammonium nitrate decomposes first, and with a diesel fuel content of 6%, it wraps the ammonium nitrate particles too tightly, preventing them from decomposing quickly.

I suppose the same thing happens with mixtures of aluminum and ammonium nitrate.

Laboratory of Liptakov - 4-2-2024 at 12:07

Let's not forget that ammonium nitrate is explosive itself as pure. AN is not a binary mixture oxidizer + fuel. Therefore ratio for example on 80% causes lower VoD. And bigger critical diameter. In this ratio the fuel works a like inert material. Works a like diluting of AN. Therefore is advantager using high reactive fuel with high negative OB. For example wax OB - 345. AN 94,5 + WAX 5,5 = OB - 0.075. Oil has also OB - 345.
Highest power is possible is usually combination more fuels to 10% maximaly.....:cool:

OneEyedPyro - 4-2-2024 at 12:28

Quote: Originally posted by Nemo_Tenetur  
The critical diameter seems to be a complex phenomenom, at least in such Ammonal mixtures. For my understanding a close to oxygen balanced mixture should have the smallest critical diameter, but the reality seems to be different.

Zygmunt et. al. performed and published some tests in 2009. To my surprise, with as little as 5 percent aluminum the smallest critical diameter was achieved, well below 10 mm, whereas a close to oxygen balanced mixture (about 18 percent aluminum) was almost the double value, about 15 mm.

I remember that the same happens with the sensitivity of such mixtures ( with 5 % aluminum considerably more sensitive than with 18 percent), although detonation velocity and explosive strength goes on par with oxygen balance - why ?







The main driving force in the detonation of ammonium nitrate mixtures using a powdered non energetic fuel is the decomposition of the ammonium nitrate itself, not the oxidation of the fuel component which largely occurs behind the shock front.
Aluminum powder does a good job of sensitizing AN even at low percentages but as the ratio of Al goes up the ammonium nitrate particles become not only further from each other, but the Al exhibits more and more a cushioning effect between the AN particles.
That's my theory anyway.

I'm fairly certain that the VoD and brisance is similar if not lower at some point as Al content rises, but the heaving capability and the final energy output is obviously greater as OB gets closer to 0.
With liquid fuels I assume more fuel is oxidized within and very close to the shock front having a positive effect on VoD and brisance, especially with fuels that dissolve ammonium nitrate.

[Edited on 5-2-2024 by OneEyedPyro]

Weeblordd - 8-2-2024 at 08:51

Great ideas. What's more powerful though, or loudest, rather - "granulite A-6 PA" or "ammonal 80/20"?

Well, I decided to use thermal shock to detonate around 0.5g unpressed ETN which would detonate 10g of melt-cast ETN, which will detonate 95/5 ammonal which will detonate 90/10 ammonal and Granulite A-6 PA.

P.S. I have 2.5kg ammonium nitrate in total. So for the main charge I decided to dedicate:
20% of my ammonium nitrate to ammonal 95/5.
40% of my ammonium nitrate to 90/10 ammonal.
And the remaining 40% to Granulite A-6.
And on top of this 1-2kg sugar. For a thermobaric effect. Sound decent?

Sir_Gawain - 8-2-2024 at 20:59

Sounds like one heck of a bang!:D

DennyDevHE77 - 8-2-2024 at 21:27

Quote: Originally posted by Weeblordd  
Well, I decided to use thermal shock to detonate around 0.5g unpressed ETN which would detonate 10g of melt-cast ETN, which will detonate 95/5 ammonal which will detonate 90/10 ammonal and Granulite A-6 PA.


A completely meaningless set of intermediates. 10g of ETN in cast form will be enough above the roof. Don't complicate what you don't have to complicate.

But the sugar at the top is most likely just sprayed. And the effect of sugar will be completely minuscule, of course, in comparison with real thermobaric compounds. In general, thermobaric mixtures are usually a mixture of metallic fuels with volatile nitroesters.

For example:

Ammonium perchlorate – 30%, ethyl nitrate – 18%, aluminum – 50%, thickener
(polybutadiene rubber) – 1%, Synthetic fatty acids – 1%. The TNT
equivalent in explosion pressure is 2.0.

Or here is the composition of the contents of secondary explosives (more powerful).

RDX or HMX – 15%, ethyl nitrate – 40%, aluminum - 38%, thickener
(polybutadiene rubber) – 7%. TNT equivalent in terms of explosion pressure 2.3.

Aluminum is interchangeable with zirconium.

Weeblordd - 11-2-2024 at 04:38

I know I overcomplicated things a little but I wanted it to be reliable on another level, it has to be failproof. But yeah, those are cool chems

OneEyedPyro - 11-2-2024 at 09:11

Quote: Originally posted by Weeblordd  
I know I overcomplicated things a little but I wanted it to be reliable on another level, it has to be failproof. But yeah, those are cool chems


Without very specific cap design the detonation of ETN via thermal shock is more fail prone than fail proof. I can understand not wanting to deal with dangerously sensitive primaries but surely a person can do better than paper tubes and duct tape.

dettoo456 - 11-2-2024 at 10:58

Yea, a >1kg, amateur-made UXO with a janky ETN cap is not something I’d want to deal with.

Primaries can be made safer (by orders of magnitude) with some binders, wetting agents, and basic PPE. An initiator made to ‘burn real fast and hopefully DDT’ is asking for unreliability.

NAP, although not fully explored, could be reliable enough to meet the req’d criteria. Same with CHP, or even a piperazine-Na-ClO4 perovskite.

OneEyedPyro - 11-2-2024 at 12:22

Quote: Originally posted by dettoo456  
Yea, a >1kg, amateur-made UXO with a janky ETN cap is not something I’d want to deal with.

Primaries can be made safer (by orders of magnitude) with some binders, wetting agents, and basic PPE. An initiator made to ‘burn real fast and hopefully DDT’ is asking for unreliability.

NAP, although not fully explored, could be reliable enough to meet the req’d criteria. Same with CHP, or even a piperazine-Na-ClO4 perovskite.


Even a good quality flash powder is reliable for pressed ETN with good confinement. Maybe flash seems a bit rudimentary but it's generally accessible and certainly safer to handle than the usual acetylides, azides, peroxides etc.

I've never messed around with the perchlorate complexes much but from what little I did was impressed. I've wondered why they don't see commercial use, especially when lead azide is the standard to beat.

Weeblordd - 12-2-2024 at 09:26

I bet thermal shock detonation of cast or pressed ETN with good confinement using blackpowder would be fairly reliable on its own, should have fairly high chances of detonation, and in the worst case scenario, DDT is guaranted, combined with a second melt-cast ETN
Quote: Originally posted by OneEyedPyro  

Without very specific cap design the detonation of ETN via thermal shock is more fail prone than fail proof. I can understand not wanting to deal with dangerously sensitive primaries but surely a person can do better than paper tubes and duct tape.


My main goal is to produce reliable detonators as cheap as possible, paper tubes and various kinds of glue* should be cheap enough. Other materials, are rather expensive for hundreds of detonators tbh. Will do as much testing as I possibly can.
Quote: Originally posted by OneEyedPyro  

Primaries can be made safer (by orders of magnitude) with some binders, wetting agents, and basic PPE.


can you suggest some binders and wetting agents?

DennyDevHE77 - 12-2-2024 at 09:51

Quote: Originally posted by OneEyedPyro  
I can understand not wanting to deal with dangerously sensitive primaries


By the way, I don't understand). In fact, such detonators are dangerous only in direct contact with fingers. That is, if you simply do not let yourself touch them, then their danger is leveled. The military hardly needs such detonators, but home lovers can be forgiven for such caution.
Quote: Originally posted by Weeblordd  
My main goal is to produce reliable detonators as cheap as possible


The question is what is considered reliable. You probably know that lead azide in detonators is not used in its pure form. Either a few percent of tetrazene is added to it (if you need to increase sensitivity to pricking), or a little teneres (tricinat) is pressed on top to increase sensitivity to the ray of fire. But this was not always the case, before the Americans (it seems) tried to use black powder instead of tricinat. It provided 99% reliability. It seems to be a lot, but for the military it was completely unsatisfactory
Quote: Originally posted by Weeblordd  
can you suggest some binders and wetting agents?


The simplest thing that comes to mind from effective bundles is mouse glue based on synthetic rubbers. But I still can't figure out what use it is in detonators?

All detonators without a primary explosive usually work as follows: a low-density charge of a sensitive secondary substance (PETN or ETN) is affected by a heat flux from a high-temperature pyrotechnic composition (thermite / powder / something else). As a result, layered combustion begins in the charge of the secondary explosive, then it quickly turns into convective (gorenje gorenje gorenje between the particles of the explosive), and then the combustion breaks down into a detonation wave. Therefore, the charge must be low-density in order to accelerate the transition of combustion to detonation. Strong pressing or adding a bunch, on the contrary, will slow down this process.

[Edited on 12-2-2024 by DennyDevHE77]

dettoo456 - 12-2-2024 at 12:18

Wetting agents are just things like water or diluted IPA, to help keep primary EMs far less sensitive in storage or during transport. As a good rule of thumb, all EMs should be kept ‘wet’ (assuming they won’t hydrolyze), except when they are immediately to be used - then they can be dried at RT in a room with good ventilation.

Binders for primary EMs are usually dextrin (like dextrinated LA), guar gum, or xanthan gum. They are usually added to water and mixed with the insoluble primary EM to coat. No more than 5% by weight is needed IMO.

Binders for secondaries (to be used as the output charge in a detonator) could include the same binders as for primaries or something simple like paraffin wax, to reduce friction and impact sens but not drastically affect performance.

Detonator design has been discussed on this forum in great length, I’d recommend strongly against finding the cheapest option for the sake of saving money. Safety and reliability is more important, especially in chemistry and in energetics in general.

A high density output EM, initiated by a low density transfer EM, initiated by a low density primer mix, ignited by a fuse, in a metal case, is all you need.

Industry has used RDX, LA, LS, and an E-match, in an Al tube for decades with no issues. These can be replaced by PETN, low density PETN, low density AgNTz, and an E-match in a metal tube, with practically identical results. Or even, stabilized (by a NOx scavenger) ETN (lightly pressed), low density stabilized ETN, NAP, and canon fuse in a hard plastic tube.

It’s not hard to ‘design’, but don’t lose your fingers in the process or go blind.

OneEyedPyro - 12-2-2024 at 15:49

Quote: Originally posted by DennyDevHE77  


By the way, I don't understand). In fact, such detonators are dangerous only in direct contact with fingers. That is, if you simply do not let yourself touch them, then their danger is leveled. The military hardly needs such detonators, but home lovers can be forgiven for such caution.

[Edited on 12-2-2024 by DennyDevHE77]


You can't compare industrial detonators that use well tested and proven materials and manufacturing methods to ones using homemade EMs and improvised detonator bodies/components.
Let's not forget that in reality, literally nobody uses detonators without at some point physically manipulating them during manufacture, transportation and insertion into the main charge.

Given the potential consequences of an accidental detonation, it only makes sense to mitigate any unnecessary risk over what amounts to a simple fascination or hobby for most people.

[Edited on 12-2-2024 by OneEyedPyro]