I really wanna get into experimenting with energetics. I wanna learn how to make RDX and PETN and ETN and nitrocellulose and TNT and as much stuff as
I can learn about. Unfortunately, I live in an apartment in a multi-level apartment building. I don't think I would be able to experiment in here
without getting in serious trouble. Wouldn't there be very bad smells while making many substances and precursors? That would get neighbors mad at me?
Or would set off the sprinkler system? Maybe they would evict me for that?
Where would be a good external place to make a lab if it can't be your primary residence?
If I buy an RV, would I be able to make stuff in there? I suppose the smell risk instead attracts the suspicion of cops on the road? Can you just go
off into the desert and make stuff there? Maybe the RV fridge/freezer isn't adequate enough to cool things down? Maybe the enclosed space makes it too
much of a fire/premature detonation/suffocation risk? Would a gas mask be sufficient for not breathing in fumes?
Or I suppose a rural house somewhere remote in the West Coast would be better right? More space to make things. Less risk of earning the scrutiny of
other people. Less chance of getting the cops called on you by neighbors. Especially if it is far from urban areas. But it's hard to find housing for
rent out in rural areas. I feel like 99% of rentals on the West Coast are in urban centers, even for small population towns. They are townhomes and
mid-rises. Basically shared living buildings instead of secluded single family housing. Everyone who has a rural house is not renting it out. They are
living in it.
What do you suggest for someone who wants to get into energetics but doesn't currently have a good lab situation?
[Edited on 24-10-2025 by BusterKeaton6520]Chemgineer - 24-10-2025 at 06:01
There is a good documentary similar to this called Breaking Bad bnull - 24-10-2025 at 06:21
What do you suggest for someone who wants to get into energetics but doesn't currently have a good lab situation?
Simply don't get into it. Unless you have a good, safe place, somewhat distant from neighbors but very accessible to emergency services, where you can
practice that kind of chemistry and, most important, you really know what you're doing (I'm talking of knowing and studying the stuff, not simply
following recipes and replicating something you saw in YouTube), you'd better leave it well alone. Accidents with energetics range from broken stuff
and singed eyebrows to mutilation and death, and these things happen in dedicated labs. But you probably know it better than I do.Dr.Bob - 30-10-2025 at 12:18
I understand you want to learn stuff. As a kid I was trying to make fireworks but had enough issues my mother stopped it before I set fire to the
house or killed myself. But I did learn much and later tried to make fireworks as an adult. I learned that rules in most states are way worse than
federal laws, and that doing the wrong thing can get you a lot of very bad attention (think three letter acronym agencies). But if you want to learn,
I would start with fireworks, there are clubs in many states that have the facilties, permits, and knowledge to make them. From there, you can learn
enough to see what else you might find.
But getting caught making high explosives without permits is likely to end up in a cell or hospital. If you have a large rular place in the midwest,
that is one of the few places where some states are more agreeable to fireoworks or other goodies.MrDoctor - 31-10-2025 at 02:08
this is incredibly stupid wether the OP is actually planning on making energetics or not, but i thought id address this properly incase anyone else
happens upon this thread.
Since you are talking about energetics, so basically nitrations, nitrations generally produce incredibly toxic byproducts aside from the nitric oxides
they emit, in the case of TNT, you get something known as "red water" and to my knowledge the inability to process large amounts of it in realtime are
one of the bottlenecks in many countries domestic TNT production.
In the event you spill one of your numerous aqueous washes of your nitro compound of choice, you will contaminate the RV with highly potent contact
poison that absorbs rapidly through the skin, probably is corrosive and releasing noxious fumes continuously as well, and, you will have no ability to
carry sufficient water and wash products to contain or clean the spill. actually id argue that unless you sealed the floor, one flask ejection and the
RV becomes permanently uninhabitable and you might as well rip everything off the trailer base and burn it, it wouldnt even be safe for landfill.
there is no way, unless you had something like a purpose built mobile lab bus, that you could reasonably mitigate your risks to not only yourself, but
others and the environment. you cannot ever allow so much as a drop of waste products to soak into the soil or go down the drain/gutter.
The fact you dont even realize how foolish of a proposition this is tells me you dont know enough about the high explosives you want to make, by a
long shot. you dont know enough of the fundamentals of chemistry to even appreciate the risk. When i was young i tried something similar and got as
far as acquiring some nitric acid before eventually realizing that there was no way to mitigate the risks, furthermore the actual chemistry, which is
organic chemistry mind you, is incredibly complex, like TNT forms something like 3 or so isomers at a time where maybe 1 or 2 are appropriate and the
rest must be destroyed at each step. the sheer amount of purification and waste involved for any nitro or phenol/benzene energetic, and the hazards of
a spill, should be obvious long before you even started understanding the mechanisms of those specific compounds formation.
In short, the fact you have to ask means you are still years away from even understanding why its a bad idea, let alone being able to survive doing
it. woelen - 31-10-2025 at 04:43
I agree with bnull. Making energetics is not the thing to start with. Accidents are always around the corner.
First try doing other chemistry. Even in an apartment you can do certain types of chemistry (e.g. transition metal chemistry, chemistry with certain
gases) on a small scale. This allows you to build up knowledge and experience.
The energetics thing then can be done later. You may get the opportunity to move to a house with a garden in the future. That already gives more
opportunities, but still, you will experience limitations in what can be done. Some things simply cannot be done without having access to a true lab.
I do not think that things are as bad a MrDoctor writes. Of course, certain energetics may be toxic or in their production there can be toxic
by-products, but I do not think it is instant death in a bottle. But of course, there are risks. Certain organics are quite toxic and you have to take
that into account. And the risk of contaminating your living environment, so that you have long term low-level exposure to certain compounds is real.
For that reason, it is not wise to do experiments with more toxic compounds in places where you live on a daily basis. You need a separate space (e.g.
a shed in the garden, a sealed room in the attic) where you do the experiments.
But, given your current situation, I think that you should not start doing things with energetics on a larger scale. First try other chemistry. There
is a lot of fun to be made with inorganic relatively simple chemistry and even some nice energetic demos on a microscale are possible with that, also
in an apartment. Some examples:
- synthesis of certain chemicals, such as CuCl2, FeSO4
- electrolysis of salt solutions, making chlorates and doing little experiments with that (you can safely do funny experiments with that on a 100's of
milligrams scale, also in an apartment).
- experiments with gases
Also keep in mind that working on a miniature scale increases the number of possibilities enormously. You get much less waste and much less cost.
Also keep in mind that some things should not be done in an apartment at all. Most important is not to work with very toxic non-volatile compounds,
which may contaminate your apartment. Think of mercury salts, lead salts, thallium compounds, arsenic compounds. An example of this is making mercury
nitrate. If you add a little mercury to warm nitric acid, then the stuff starts bubbling a lot. You get NO2-gas and most people acknowledge the
toxicity of that. They leave the room for a while and let the gas diffuse/blow away from the apartment. But the bubbles also may carry fine droplets
of solution, containing mercury nitrate. The water and acid quickly evaporate, leaving the room, but the mercury nitrate becomes dust, which settles
on your floor or carpet, furniture, etc. This kind of contamination can build up over many experiments and in the long run it may cause health issues.
So, not all experiments can be done in an apartment, not even on a small scale.Deathunter88 - 31-10-2025 at 12:34
If you're in the US the situation is actually pretty straightforward:
1. Join a firework club near you.
2. Ask the members which companies within a 3-4 hour drive of you sell 1.3g fireworks.
3. Email or call the company and ask for a "contingency storage letter". They hand these out like hotcakes because it helps their business.
4. Apply for an ATF license, this is very straightforward, since you have contingency storage you can list your apartment as your place of buisness.
The application is only like 2 pages and if you don't know what to put, just write something - the ATF will help you correct any mistakes in the next
step
5. The ATF will have an informative interview with you, this is not a test, like I said they will help you correct any mistakes you may have made in
your original applicaition
6. With the ATF license you can now legally transport explosives. Furthermore, if you make your explosives the same day you use them you don't need
storage.
7. Go attend firework club shoots, you'd be surprised by the amount of cool stuff that goes on at these. The last one I was at someone set off a 20lb
ANFO ground salute. At another shoot someone brought 50 pounds of tannerite and people had fun messing around with adding various things to it to try
and get the loudest boom. And the best part is all of this is legal since the club will have gotten a shoot permit from the city. The police even
showed up to watch a human sized stuffed animal get blown up with 10lb of ammonal for fun. Trust me, once you have a permit and are part of a
fireworks club you legitimize a lot of the things you might otherwise have to do in secret and it makes the whole experience much more enjoyable.Varungh - 11-2-2026 at 05:11
I doubt amatuers should make these. In any case get a place in a industrial area for cheap where there is minimal risk of harm. Still i suggest you
get a license. India is harsh on this so i don't do such tomfoolery but you have lesser restrictions overseas
