Sciencemadness Discussion Board

need some advice...

zasx20 - 15-5-2011 at 19:33

i am just a beginning home scientist i i would like to know what glassware and lab ware i should buy for my home lab to get it started.
i was also wondering what kind of "generic"(chemicals that get used a lot) chemicals i should get in larger quantities and should always have on hand.
thanks
-zasx20

#maverick# - 15-5-2011 at 19:51

i started with four beakers of varying sizes, erlyenmeyer flasks and pipettes and stir rods.

Have a strong base and strong acid on hand
you can get almost 100% NaOH from drain cleaner, buy the rooto 100% lye brand and for strong acid buy rooto professional drain opener which is fairly clean and really concentrated, looks like reagent grade, both of which you can get at menards. also you can buy fairly concentrated Hydrochloric acid at menards as muratic acid


anyways woelen has some good guides on his site
here is the glassware http://woelen.homescience.net/science/chem/misc/equipment.ht...

and chems http://woelen.homescience.net/science/chem/misc/chemicals.ht...

zasx20 - 16-5-2011 at 18:46

thx ill check that out

zasx20 - 16-5-2011 at 19:42

*Update*
i have got an idea of what to order, but i want to know how much money i should put down into lab equipment, apparatus, and chemicals, im thinking about $150(totaled with shipping/hazmat if necessary) i got basic beakers, test tubes, clamps, beakers, eren. flasks one boiling flask, boiling stones, pipettes , droppers, Hydrochloric, Nitric, and sulfuric acid, Sodium and potassium hydroxide, some solvents(acetone, toluene), Potassium permangenate, hydrogen peroxide, sodium acetate, sodium chloride, and copper sulfate is what i plan to order.
any suggestions or thoughts?:)

#maverick# - 16-5-2011 at 19:49

drop the sodium chloride you dont need ACS reagent grade salt the lower levels plus you can get fairly pure salt if u buy the kind without potassium iodide, also copper sulfate you can get like 2 lbs for 10 bucks at home depot as zap root kill like 99.9% CuSO4*5H20. and dont worry over time you will acquire the labware over time. i also read your other thread about the acetone distillation, just wanted to let you kno united nuclear has a starter distilliation setup for about 125.

Where are you buying your chems from exactly i have yet to find a cheap source for concentrated H2O2

entropy51 - 17-5-2011 at 05:59

Quote: Originally posted by #maverick#  
i have yet to find a cheap source for concentrated H2O2
The hardware stores in my area sell 30 - 35% H2O2 as Wood Bleach. Comes in a box with two bottles. The second bottle is NaOH with I believe sodium silicate.

There is also a brand of wood bleach which is rather pure oxalic acid, also not a bad chemical to have.

Be very careful with strong H2O2, especially not to get it in the eyes or contaminate the contents of the bottle. It can decompose quite energetically if it becomes contaminated. It can also start fires if you clean up a spill with paper towels and let them dry out.

[Edited on 17-5-2011 by entropy51]

hissingnoise - 17-5-2011 at 07:21

Quote:

Be very careful with strong H2O2, especially not to get it in the eyes or contaminate the contents of the bottle. It can decompose quite energetically if it becomes contaminated.

"Energetic" IMO, is a bit strong for the fizzing and bubbling that occurs . . .
It is only 35% H<sub>2</sub>O<sub>2</sub>!

Neil - 17-5-2011 at 07:31

Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise  
Quote:

Be very careful with strong H2O2, especially not to get it in the eyes or contaminate the contents of the bottle. It can decompose quite energetically if it becomes contaminated.

"Energetic" IMO, is a bit strong for the fizzing and bubbling that occurs . . .
It is only 35% H<sub>2</sub>O<sub>2</sub>!




I almost lost sight in one eye when a bottle of H2O2 that had been miss-stored exploded. It had been left in the wrong place with the bottle upside down by another individual. I had no knowledge of the H2O2 when the bottle of it spontaneously blew up going past my head and soaking the side of my face with H2O2. I ran to a tap and immediately washed my affected eye for 30 minutes before going to the hospital where after 3 1/2 liters of saline wash they concluded that it was gone and I was likely okay.

30% H2O2 is dangerous, very much so when mishandled.

Edit: bad grammer

[Edited on 17-5-2011 by Neil]

#maverick# - 17-5-2011 at 07:39

Quote: Originally posted by entropy51  
Quote: Originally posted by #maverick#  
i have yet to find a cheap source for concentrated H2O2
The hardware stores in my area sell 30 - 35% H2O2 as Wood Bleach. Comes in a box with two bottles. The second bottle is NaOH with I believe sodium silicate.

There is also a brand of wood bleach which is rather pure oxalic acid, also not a bad chemical to have.

Be very careful with strong H2O2, especially not to get it in the eyes or contaminate the contents of the bottle. It can decompose quite energetically if it becomes contaminated. It can also start fires if you clean up a spill with paper towels and let them dry out.

[Edited on 17-5-2011 by entropy51]

yea man thanks for the info, and i have indeed heard some nasty stories of H202, the highest concentration ive had in my lab was the 12% sold at hair supply stores

zasx20 - 17-5-2011 at 13:07

30% H2O2 is dangerous period. its not too spendy at elementalscientific.com, its like 8.15$ for 16 Oz

#maverick# - 17-5-2011 at 15:31

Quote: Originally posted by zasx20  
30% H2O2 is dangerous period. its not too spendy at elementalscientific.com, its like 8.15$ for 16 Oz
Hazmat fees?

zasx20 - 17-5-2011 at 17:53

yea forgot about the 15$ fee... still its worth it in the long run of things

Neil - 17-5-2011 at 18:09

A while back I saw a product being promoted by as Eco group as being "Green Bleach", I think that was also its sales name.

I don't have a manufacture and I can't find a MSDS online but I do remember that it was being promoted as being hydrogen peroxide instead of 'evil chlorine chemicals'.

Has anyone else heard of this? Does anyone know what concentration it is?

Edit: Never mind it's only "3-5"%

[Edited on 18-5-2011 by Neil]

ScienceSquirrel - 17-5-2011 at 18:14

Hydrogen peroxide is shipped quite freely without Hazmat fees in some places.
It has large scale uses in the food industry so regulation is light.
Compare and contrast the purchase of 20 litres ca 4.5 gallons of petrol and the purchase of the same amount of pentane. Petrol and pentane are similar in hazards and flammability.
Petrol; turn up at Big Oil Stop. Pump it in the tank of your car yourself and pay with cash, cheque or credit card. Away you go. Your car can sit on the road outside your house with it's tank of petrol.
Pentane; Struggle to find a company that will supply you as an individual if you can establish bona fides, professional qualifications, etc or set up a company with a business address and a bank account that will keep them happy. The police, fire brigade, etc may ask to visit your premises during working hours when you are at your day job! Make an order, deal with the pro forma invoices, MSDS, etc. Pay for premium shipping, Hazmat, etc. The solvent must be stored in a secure area in locked ventilated cupboards. You may have to keep day books detailing consumption.

Neil - 17-5-2011 at 18:29

Is Pentane a precursor controlled substance?

#maverick# - 17-5-2011 at 18:34

interesting.

here is an article i found interesting http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2011/02/17/confirmed-our-g...

Arthur Dent - 19-5-2011 at 03:53

Quote:

30% H2O2 is dangerous period. its not too spendy at elementalscientific.com, its like 8.15$ for 16 Oz


Do not confuse volumes with percentage... The "hairdresser" kind of hydrogen peroxide that states 30 VOLUME on the bottle is in fact a solution of 9% Hydrogen Peroxide... and it's about $7 or $8 a bottle.

30% H2O2 is much more expensive and much harder to find. But I have found that the 9% solution is plenty strong for my purposes and does the job remarkably well in most syntheses.

Robert


[Edited on 19-5-2011 by Arthur Dent]

zasx20 - 19-5-2011 at 13:04

i know it is % H2O2, it says so on the page " warning highly corrosive,30 Conc.)

Sedit - 19-5-2011 at 13:36

Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise  

"Energetic" IMO, is a bit strong for the fizzing and bubbling that occurs . . .
It is only 35% H<sub>2</sub>O<sub>2</sub>!



Drip some of that onto a pile of Iron Sulfate and it will change your mind. You will feel the heat wave come off of each drop as though it was a mini exposion.

entropy51 - 19-5-2011 at 15:59

Quote: Originally posted by Arthur Dent  
30% H2O2 is much more expensive and much harder to find.
Which part of wood bleach down at the hardware store don't you understand?

Magic Muzzlet - 19-5-2011 at 16:15

Not all places carry it, I for one cannot find the stuff anywhere and I've searched many stores in my area, as well as not in my area.
It must be obtained from chlorine free pool shock or online if you want H2O2 of any reasonable strength (in my case and probably others)

[Edited on 20-5-2011 by Magic Muzzlet]

Neil - 19-5-2011 at 16:22

Have you checked with your local green houses?

Magic Muzzlet - 19-5-2011 at 16:28

A while ago i did, all products were dyed or contained other impurities.

But what everyone on this forum needs to remember, we all live in different places. What is available to you may not be available to me, and so forth. Seems obvious, but like entropy just remarked at Arthur, it's obvious he doesn't really realize this.

Anyway I always buy mine from my supplier...

ScienceSquirrel - 19-5-2011 at 16:34

35% hydrogen peroxide is around 120 oxygen by volume.
It is a strong oxidising agent that will cause serious skin burns on contact in the cold.
In my opinion, 0.880 ammonia or 35% hydrochloric acid are chemical pussies compared with 35% hydrogen peroxide.
35% hydrogen peroxide with 95% sulphuric acid is the recipe for acid piranha.
OTC and it will explode on contact with acetone or some other organic materials.

#maverick# - 19-5-2011 at 17:08

Quote: Originally posted by entropy51  
Quote: Originally posted by Arthur Dent  
30% H2O2 is much more expensive and much harder to find.
Which part of wood bleach down at the hardware store don't you understand?

Lol found it at the hardware store. Gotta love hardware stores man

entropy51 - 19-5-2011 at 17:11

Quote: Originally posted by Magic Muzzlet  
What is available to you may not be available to me, and so forth. Seems obvious, but like entropy just remarked at Arthur, it's obvious he doesn't really realize this.
No, son, I am acutely aware of this fact of life. I didn't say that every hardware store carries 30% H2O2, but a lot of them do, if you know what to look for. But when someone discourages people from looking for things that might just be readily available if they had just looked. See #maverick#'s post above.

[Edited on 20-5-2011 by entropy51]

Sedit - 19-5-2011 at 17:26

I don't know how cost effective it is but the hippy health food stores sell 35% H2O2 for 20$ a liter or so.

Is that on par with Wood bleach?

Magic Muzzlet - 19-5-2011 at 17:26

Ahhh entropy, the fissile one.

#maverick# - 19-5-2011 at 17:29

Quote: Originally posted by Sedit  
I don't know how cost effective it is but the hippy health food stores sell 35% H2O2 for 20$ a liter or so.

Is that on par with Wood bleach?

Paid 80 for a gallon so about right.

Neil - 19-5-2011 at 17:46

Anyone remember the site that made claims that drinking/injecting/doing stupid things with H2O2 made you live longer and cured just about disease known to man?

Well...

In happy news they got stomped on by the FDA, in other news you can order H2O2 from them to just about anywhere in the USA.

http://www.h2o2-4u.com/