Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Make shift Glassware

Chemistry Alchemist - 1-10-2011 at 07:50

Im curious, what home equipment could be used as chemical glass ware?

i got a suggestion from someone that a empty liight bulb can be used as a round bottom glask? is the glass stable enough for direct heating with a liquid inside? is there a chance for shattering?

anyother things that can substitute more expensive stuff?

hissingnoise - 1-10-2011 at 08:21

Quote:
i got a suggestion from someone that a empty liight bulb can be used as a round bottom glask?

Holy shit! Light bulbs?
Things down there in Oz must be really seriously fucked-up . . .

Endimion17 - 1-10-2011 at 08:53

Quote: Originally posted by Chemistry Alchemist  
Im curious, what home equipment could be used as chemical glass ware?

i got a suggestion from someone that a empty liight bulb can be used as a round bottom glask? is the glass stable enough for direct heating with a liquid inside? is there a chance for shattering?

anyother things that can substitute more expensive stuff?


Yes, light bulbs can be used as round bottom flasks.
They're great for things like dry distillation. Disposable, durable, inert.
For example, you can make lots of copper sulphide if you stuff the copper wire inside and add excess sulphur, and then bury the bulb in hot coal. Not the neck, though. After half an hour, sulphur is gone and you're left with a nice, crumbly compound. No muss, no fuss. :)

But where did you get the idea that flasks can be heated in flame? Laboratory glassware (unless special, like quartz) is heated over a hot plate, and if your source of heat is flame, asbestos/ceramic plate is used. Or water/oil/lead/sand baths, depending on the temperature you want to reach.
Sometimes 2-3 layers of iron wire gauze is a good idea, too.
Naked flame - never.

In addition to lightbulbs, you can use fluorescent light tubing for some less demanding tasks. For example, it can be carefully heated to around 300 °C if wrapped in the gauze. It tends to melt easily, though.
It's very easy to prepare a large glass tube from a fluorescent light.

[Edited on 1-10-2011 by Endimion17]

Wizzard - 1-10-2011 at 09:34

Glass soda bottles are also very handy- They can withstand a vacuum with ease, and also high pressure- Any glass container made for carbonated soda MUST be 100% safe at a minimum 150PSI.

bbartlog - 1-10-2011 at 12:31

Quote:
where did you get the idea that flasks can be heated in flame?


I heat RBF with direct flame and have not had problems. Granted I position the flask just above (not in) the actual glowing flame. And I have seen other examples of people doing the same, see e.g. garage chemist's synthesis of heptachloropropane, here: http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=14584#... .

Endimion17 - 1-10-2011 at 17:14

Quote: Originally posted by bbartlog  
Quote:
where did you get the idea that flasks can be heated in flame?


I heat RBF with direct flame and have not had problems. Granted I position the flask just above (not in) the actual glowing flame. And I have seen other examples of people doing the same, see e.g. garage chemist's synthesis of heptachloropropane, here: http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=14584#... .


It's simply not done like that. Every organic chemist would cringe to see a flask being heated with a naked flame.
"Never" is an interesting word, especially when you do lots of organic experiments and deal with ether and acetone refluxes all the time.
I'd never put my safety in the hands of "never".

Just because lots of people does something the wrong way, that doesn't make it right.
Open flame heating and fancy glassware don't go together. Simple rule.

Chemistry Alchemist - 1-10-2011 at 17:17

Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise  
Quote:
i got a suggestion from someone that a empty liight bulb can be used as a round bottom glask?

Holy shit! Light bulbs?
Things down there in Oz must be really seriously fucked-up . . .



There are alot of restrictions in australia, "Home Chemistry" easly refurs to drug labs and australia says no so they are stricked with there imporation of chemicals and glassware :/ my next door neighbours house blew up from hydrogen build up while they tried making drugs







[Edited on 2-10-2011 by Chemistry Alchemist]

Chemistry Alchemist - 1-10-2011 at 17:30

Quote: Originally posted by Endimion17  
[/rquote]

But where did you get the idea that flasks can be heated in flame?


I got the idea from those alcohol burners you get, i wasnt talking about a direct blowtorch flame, i was thinking of like a Bunsen burner flame...

Is there a way you would flatten the bottom of the bulb to make a flat bottom flask?

Blasty - 2-10-2011 at 03:32

Quote: Originally posted by Chemistry Alchemist  
Im curious, what home equipment could be used as chemical glass ware?

i got a suggestion from someone that a empty liight bulb can be used as a round bottom glask? is the glass stable enough for direct heating with a liquid inside? is there a chance for shattering?

anyother things that can substitute more expensive stuff?


I have used commercial glass bottles, like those used for Snapple iced teas and lemonades, as flasks for carrying out basic reactions a bunch of times. They are cheap, easily available and economize on the actual more expensive bona fide flasks. The only catch is that if a particular experiment requires heat, you have to do it by gradually heating in a sand-bath. They won't take the thermal shock of a direct flame like borosilicate glass can.

Blasty - 2-10-2011 at 03:53

Quote: Originally posted by Endimion17  

It's simply not done like that. Every organic chemist would cringe to see a flask being heated with a naked flame.
"Never" is an interesting word, especially when you do lots of organic experiments and deal with ether and acetone refluxes all the time.
I'd never put my safety in the hands of "never".

Just because lots of people does something the wrong way, that doesn't make it right.
Open flame heating and fancy glassware don't go together. Simple rule.


The reason why it's not done in organic chemistry is pretty much self-evident: look at some of the chemicals you yourself mentioned... volatile & flammable + open flame = recipe for an accident!

But in inorganic chemistry it can be done, as long as no flammable materials are being dealt with (preparation of nitric acid from a mixture of sodium nitrate and sulfuric acid, for example.) Borosilicate glassware, specially the round bottomed pieces, can take the thermal shock very well (at first the flame should be yellow, though, not an air/gas mix blue flame at the full blast of the burner! Even the best round borosilicate glass pieces can crack with such a brutally sudden thermal shock.)

Mildronate - 2-10-2011 at 05:17

Light bulbs its not seriously. I sometimes use 3L and 1L jars for experiments, because jars are cheap and big, but when i need to heat something i use real glasware.

Endimion17 - 2-10-2011 at 06:20

Quote: Originally posted by Chemistry Alchemist  
I got the idea from those alcohol burners you get, i wasnt talking about a direct blowtorch flame, i was thinking of like a Bunsen burner flame...

Is there a way you would flatten the bottom of the bulb to make a flat bottom flask?

Same thing. Borosilicate glass is never heated (unless you're a flameworker, lol) in a naked flame.

It is possible to flatten it, but it's tricky, as wrinkles can form. Use a propane blowtorch and practice. That's the best advice I can give to you. :)
Quote: Originally posted by Blasty  
The reason why it's not done in organic chemistry is pretty much self-evident: look at some of the chemicals you yourself mentioned... volatile & flammable + open flame = recipe for an accident!

But in inorganic chemistry it can be done, as long as no flammable materials are being dealt with (preparation of nitric acid from a mixture of sodium nitrate and sulfuric acid, for example.) Borosilicate glassware, specially the round bottomed pieces, can take the thermal shock very well (at first the flame should be yellow, though, not an air/gas mix blue flame at the full blast of the burner! Even the best round borosilicate glass pieces can crack with such a brutally sudden thermal shock.)


My opinion comes from:
1) more than a decade of working with such glassware
2) flameworker's advices
3) literature
4) laboratory technicians and college staff with decades of experience

I'm not saying that borosilicate glass will burst if heated in an open flame. If that was happening all the time, flameworkers wouldn't exist, would they?
The point is that localized, great temperature differentials (flame!) cause stresses in the glass structure.
First time nothing. Second time nothing. Third time nothing. Fourth time CRACK. Not neccessarily at fourth heating, of course. It can happen at tenth, but why playing a Russian roulette?

Improper heating reduces its lifetime. It's simple as that.
That's why glassware (especially NB borosilicate, expensive glassware) is heated in mantles, heating coils, baths etc.


I'l admit it, I heat cheap glassware above the visible naked flame. Test tubes (it not like I'm gonna set a sand bath every time I do it), already damaged flasks, tubes... It's not a problem. But when I see naked flame being used on glassware with standard tapers, I cringe and immediately form a not so good opinion about the one doing it. Call it a prejudice, I don't care.

[Edited on 2-10-2011 by Endimion17]

Chemistry Alchemist - 2-10-2011 at 10:26

Yeah, I'm planning on getting a oxytorch used for welding copper but for my pyrotechnics, can't do anything till I get that tho :) thanks

[Edited on 2-10-2011 by Chemistry Alchemist]

Mildronate - 2-10-2011 at 12:01

You can make rounbotommed from glass pipe, also can make test tubes from pipe, liebig cooler, some pipets just need to practice, but why you cant buy glassware?

Ground glass Distillation improvistion

Steve_hi - 2-10-2011 at 15:09

I bought a 14/20 distillation flask and condensor it was expensive and I'm afraid of breaking it I also have a leibig and graham condensor that use rubber stopper. Today I turned some nylon shaft to fit into my 50ml flask and my leibig condensor and put O-rings in them these are only nitrile O-rings but I will buy some vitron O-ring which can withstand nitric acid the piping I used was aluminum because I saw on Nurdrage that aluminum is impervious to attack by nitric acid I distilled some water to test for leaks everything seems to be ok.
I want to do this for my my 250ml and 500ml flasks as well but I am thinking of either buying stainless steel or teflon shaft if it exists. Can you give me your opinions on whether you think this is a bad idea or should I go with it. Any imput will be appreciated


[img]C:\Users\Steve\Pictures\2011-10-02\21.jpg[/img]

[img]C:\Users\Steve\Pictures\2011-10-02\22.jpg[/img]



21.jpg - 73kB 22.jpg - 60kB

Chemistry Alchemist - 2-10-2011 at 19:28

my parents dont want to buy my glassware :/ and its hard where i live...

Neil - 3-10-2011 at 19:45

Can't be harder then welding copper :P

bquirky - 3-10-2011 at 21:21


seriously.. don't waste your time with a light-globe just buy the frigging flask and save yourself the mess and cuts


G1115-100 GG17 BOROSILICATE BOILING FLASK ROUND BOTTOM
100ml WITH LONG NECK AND ROUND BOTTOM $4.62

from

http://www.wiltronics.com.au/catalogue/161274/science/flasks...


lightglobes

52 Watt = 75 Watt GLS Halogen Replacement Light Globe (4 Pack) $19.95

from http://lightingpro.com.au/catalog/index.php?cPath=26_120


infact since our green Nazi Overloads have outlawed friggin light globes we will probably soon have to make light globes out of round bottom flasks !!!


[Edited on 4-10-2011 by bquirky]

Endimion17 - 4-10-2011 at 01:56

Quote: Originally posted by bquirky  
...

infact since our green Nazi Overloads have outlawed friggin light globes we will probably soon have to make light globes out of round bottom flasks !!!



I can see it coming. A whole "hidden biosphere" of development, starting with a mix of 18th century technology and 20th century scrap.

hissingnoise - 4-10-2011 at 03:18

"End User Declaration required for individuals purchasing this product" on a 500ml flask?

WTF!!!


Chemistry Alchemist - 4-10-2011 at 03:26

yeah, on some of the important adapters for a simple distillation also says that ><

dann2 - 4-10-2011 at 08:39


Don't admit its for to make a bulb.......

hissingnoise - 5-10-2011 at 01:55

It's for an art installation, guv!


Endimion17 - 5-10-2011 at 05:18

Actually, the "art installation" excuse works, at least here. Try that, you've got nothing to loose. :)

Panache - 23-10-2011 at 04:47

You can say whatever you like on an EUD, they are simply a means of tracking the distribution of an item to a individual. If you have no nefarious intent there is no problem. They are also not legally required as they are part of a cooperative code of conduct framework the suppliers choose or choose not to adhere to.
As a cooperative means they are effective,police consort with the suppliers rather than tediously (and ineffectively) antagonize them. From the outside the system appears onerous and invasive, but it's actually an excellent system, it does not stop or slow any transaction, rather just makes it accountable.
I can already feel the warmth from the flames in your replies, lol.

unsub - 23-10-2011 at 19:28

There is a similar thread on DIY distillation kits in the acquiring reagents etc subforum. I posted m idea for a reaction vessel there. Really even if your a kid living with parnts ,dirt poor etc get a reaction flask and condenser. I have seen some dirt cheap rubber stopper style. Not as good as ground glass bt better than lightbulbs. I am also springing for a thermometer and aspirator.

For beakers coffee maker pots are designed for use on hot plates. I found a great little 1 cup one that even looks like a beaker. Pyrex measuring ups are cool but to thick to handle rapid temp changes.

I saved some little airplane chivas bottles. Cut a piece of rubber similar to innertube for a capliner. Until i can find some teflon. Great stuff teflon.

Rescued a big glass plate from a dead microwave and a lid or 2 from broken pyrex dshes at the sally ann for evap plates etc. Old fake Xmass tree stand is ideal rings stand for 2 liter reaction vessel. Built like a tank ,fireproof and adjusts. Stuck a bent chopstick in the dremel and instant mechanical stirrer. There was a brand new hand blender in the basement I havent tried but it's sweet oster graduated 1 liter plastic beaker with lid looks very sciency. On od french press 1 litre glass beaker is a perfect match but no markings. Does have a nice removable handle and a vented lid. I also got a few of these orangina bottles shaped like ehrlemeher flasks and a few others with good lids.

I have a fairly ambitious plan for turning a sailor jerry bottle into a addition funnel. Maybe a fume cupboard and melting point device someday.