Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Education on Illicit substances

All I read here between the lines is a bunch of dopeheads that would like to fuckup their brains with no legal risks.

All I read between the lines here is a person content with being ruled and raped with no will of its own...

Sorry for that but you had it coming...

What I or anyone else chose to do to their brains or body is of no ones business, and that most if not all drug legislations and laws are imposed based upon economical reasons are absolutly not a reason at all to restrict anything..

Pulverulescent - 2-3-2012 at 06:17

The official line being ─ don't do drugs!
OK, drugs mightn't fuck you up but the jail-time we'll give you will!

AirCowPeaCock - 2-3-2012 at 09:47

Quote: Originally posted by Pulverulescent

The official line being ─ don't do drugs!
OK, drugs mightn't fuck you up but the jail-time we'll give you will!

A miserable truth. Especially with psychedelics, to my knowledge all the common ones are scheduled I, i.e. felony possession.

All I read here between the lines is a bunch of dopeheads that would like to fuckup their brains with no legal risks.

I can see your not well educated. Besides the medical facts that there is no reason to believe psychedelics have no lasting physical impact, few people who take psychedelics regularly (if you can call it that) are doing it to get a 'buzz'. It's not about getting high, or having fun, or forgetting your reality. On the contrary, psychedelics are all about facing reality in a new light, a brighter light. Visual hallucinations of any kind are not random or spontaneous, they are expressions of ones self. This is so true that it is not unheard of to take large amounts of LSD and achieve no effect, while the same person may later take a very small amount and get to Lv 5 (total loss of visual reality). 'Tripping' is to dreaming as dihydrogen monoxide is to water.

[Edited on 3-2-2012 by AirCowPeaCock]

Magic Muzzlet - 2-3-2012 at 10:09

"bunch of dope heads that would like to fuckup their brains"

Well that right there just goes to show how much you really know, how much research you've actually done, and how brainwashed you are. But there will always be one, and nothing can ever be said to change these people's minds!

I wonder if you ever drink alcohol or use prescription medication? And if you say you don't, there is still the bulk of Americans and humans in all other countries that do, and everyone knows how fucking harmful that disgusting solvent is, and all the damage from over-prescribed medications.
I cannot believe that on a science forum we still have people making stupid comments like that, if you gathered data and looked at this issue without a bias it's easy to compare one against the other and see how blind you are.

A_bab is part of the reason this thread was created.

And again it comes back to why you care so much what people would like to do to their consciousness.

[Edited on 2-3-2012 by Magic Muzzlet]

AirCowPeaCock - 2-3-2012 at 10:14

I wonder if he will respond...

a_bab - 5-3-2012 at 00:15

Well, nobody knows for sure what education I have got and I do drink alcohol sometimes. Coincidentally I have a chronic disease that needs meds with nasty side effects. Some of my friends enjoy a good joint occasionally and I can see in some (very few) others the weed side effects: memory loss, lack of attention, inability to finish a project. And I'm talking just weed here. Well, it is clearly visible I hate mind altering drugs.

All of you that are so keen to fuck up your brains do it - but there are risks beyond the legal trouble. It's your life after all.

LSD does turn you into a vegetable, eventually. Read some facts. Oh, let me guess: all those papers and studies are actually government crap, meant to brainwash an already retarded nation.

The facts are like this: you are the child willing to play with the hot oven, while the government is above you, ready to slap your hand.
Even in Netherlands some people believe that what looks like a mild drug, it also causes loss of ability to socialize, paranoia and other related issues, all in teenagers. Government want us to work efficiently, rather then be stoned. Government does not want us to turn into zombies due to meth abuse, and it surely does now want to deal with the heart attacks caused by cocaine, paranoia followed by gory events caused by MDA as discussed before etc.

The recent explosion of "bath salts" and the aftermath only shows the disgusting fact that some are able to do whatever it takes to perceive the things differently, even with the cost of life.

This is a science forum indeed, but knowing some organic chemistry and being able to cook your next dream is not science at all. It surely can give you a feeling of being superior, smarter then the average Joe who has now idea about the magic behind the crap he pays lots of money for, but it's not science at all. It's just some backyard, usually dangerous chemistry.

Let me explain myself: I like chemistry just like anyone here. I hate that the mere possession of some chems could get you in trouble because I'm not like the retards who commit suicide with toxic or corrosive chems. I also hate all of the restrictions and the fact that the laws are getting tighter and tighter. I wish I lived 100 years ago, when there was no restriction to anything and people were probably happier than now.

Just think like this about me: I'm a guy who hates drugs period. And the government too. That doesn't makes me neither stupid nor brainwashed. It's a preference thing really. You with your dopes are the ones who made MOST of the interesting chems unavailable to the regular home chemist.

And BTW, I was right about all of you. Let me rephrase this thread: "I enjoy being a bee; too bad it's so risky"

[Edited on 5-3-2012 by a_bab]

Ephoton - 5-3-2012 at 06:08

I dont know if this is bait or not but .....

if you want to give ya sources away (this may not be you a_bab) what do you expect.

not all people who make things that are active give them to teenagers.

the problem is not the compounds but rather who is able to aquire
the chemicals and the compounds them selves.

a hobby is not a comercial enterprise this is were things get mixed up I think.

give easy to follow instructions rather than the science behind reactions and give the sources for OTC chemicals away and
we have the problem you describe.

I dont hate active compounds but I do agree I hate people hurting
them selves and others wial thinking there better than other people.

better it be kept to those who actualy seek it for them selves than
open the doors to mass production and chemical lock down via
releasing step by step instruction with open source policies.

not all of us wish teenagers to get into drugs they have neither
understood nore earned the right to take.

not all of us are fried by there own creations.

chemistry is a whole and as such it requires a moral education to
go with it.

we could learn a lot from our russian brothers and sisters as they
are able to keep this view of morality and responsiblity very easily
with a few rules.

no sources unsubstuted amphets or opiods.

anyone making compounds in excess of personal hobby levels banned.

it is impossible to seperate any form of chemistry from the other
as they all inter relate.

to protect one type of chemistry is to protect the other.

morals and following a working pidagram I beleive are the ways
to ending this problem of our knowllage being missused and the
governments being upset with the online chemistry movement.

it was not the bee's who started and continued the bath salt
phenomenia it was cheap arse chemical companies in the top
east poor block of europe.

AMT 5MeoDMT methylone ect were never the aim of bee's for
mass production.

dont blame failed economies on hobbiest psychonautes please
it does not help any hobbiest.

I can still respect though your dislike too drugs they have caused
a lot of trouble due to under educated people using them and
the wrong drugs being available to these people.

why should some one who can make something for them selves
not be allowed to do this.

It is no different than any other kind of personal freedom.
It is when the compounds start to gain a monetery value that
the problem occures if you ask me.

Still we both talk in ideals and fantasies, neither one of us
will get what we wish so I think it is only possible to work
together as fellow home chemists and try and protect the
whole of chemistry from sanction and be more responsible
with what we let out into the open internet.

thanx for the heads up hissingnoise.

still with a statement like that you should not be happy
with what they make you do.

they may not fuck you up but we will is only a reflection of
my statement on religon. after all the people who follow the
"truth" book are always right

GreenD some people dont come back
from LSD or go crazy and do things that they would
never do otherwise this one is not a myth.

I dont think that making illicit compounds is the way for
a lot of us.

But I think the battle to be able to synthesis something at home
is the same as the battle for the person doing the synthesis
being able to do what the wish with it so long as it doesnt
hurt others or our environment.

[Edited on 5-3-2012 by Ephoton]

Nicodem - 5-3-2012 at 07:37

LSD does turn you into a vegetable, eventually. Read some facts. Oh, let me guess: all those papers and studies are actually government crap, meant to brainwash an already retarded nation.

Could you please post some references to these articles? (it's a serious request)

bahamuth - 5-3-2012 at 07:46

Jumping off a bridge with a bungie cord attached with minimal to no training is allowed, drinking as much alcohol as to die is allowed, drinking drain cleaner is allowed, exposing oneself to mutagens/carcinogens is allowed (and often forced through our foodstuff/hygiene products/work environments) so why the f**k is ingestion of certain substances not allowed!?

And as the substances in question in this thread have little to no addictive properties (If one disregards that freedom to think may be addictive) why shouldn't people be able to choose for themselves?

When "hippies" say that the government won't allow drugs because they (the government) are afraid that the ("hippies") might learn something that the government don't, I earlier just thought -What a bunch of dopeheads., but now I'm not sure anymore. This is because the reasoning to keep the substances locked away is gradually getting "thinner" and nowadays it just feels like a kid (that would be the anti-drug people/governments) yelling and screaming with their fingers in their ears -LALALALAL....

It has been proven several times over by pioners in the field of psychopharmacology that certain psychoactive compounds aids in treatment of a multitude of conditions and has little to no damagng effects is used correctly. Then we are back to the education of people instead of hiding the "no-no candy" away.

And the notion of "choosing"/selecting what is bad and not is just stupid, if a_bab wants to drink a shot of yummy aged whiskey who are to stop him, not me, but if Mr. X wants to do some psilocin because he -1- does not enjoy alcohol, -2- has a bad liver, or -3- don't want to do the nasty horribly dangerous drug that is alcohol whos right is it to deny him this freedom??

Drug laws are not set into place to protect us, the ones that believes that are just ignorant equally so as those that implemented them. 100 years ago there was no such laws, why? Humanity survived and thrived in the old days too..
(Why does not one get jail time by getting poisoned by eating too(intentionally OD'ing) much paracetamol might one ask....)

I suggest people think of the economic pattern that may emerge if one just lay some thought into the whole drug issue, be it natural of synthetic drugs and the freedom to buy precursors and synthesize any compound at will. I know, I know, I sound paranoid but imagine if one could go into the garden, ones aluminum clad closet, or into the "shroom" box to get ones "medicine" for either joint pain, cluster headaches/migraines or just to relax and feel well about oneself, what would happen to certain powerful industries..?

If one uses addiction as an excuse to keep componds locked away, recent studies show genetic factors playing a major role in the formation of an addiction, and as such it may be speculated that the "addictive" prone peoples will find something to be addictived to, be it unhealthy or not, anyways and as such must be regarded as sick and be treated if they want it. This corresponds to the addicts that I personally know though I have no genomic sequence data to support such a claim but rather observational data suggesting that their addiction may be/must be fueled by any stimulating substance or behavior only governed by the availability of said componds or situations that give them a stimulus.

A drug addict is a drug addict no matter what, it may or may not be genetic or social (imprinting and whatnot) inheritaged but never, never should the "needs" of the few outweigh the "needs" of the many.

Let people mess up their heads and body if they want to in any way they see fit, be it recklessness by jumping off a bridge or recklessness by ingesting natural or synthetic componds I say!

The "independent thought alarm" bells are probably ringing somewhere and my IP being tracked and filed when the Norwegian PST reads this in hunt for homeland criminals venturing SM

GreenD - 5-3-2012 at 12:49

This post is in direct reference to the people of thought with similarities to a_bab.

The real research (there is a gap in fundamental beneficial research in psychedelics and entheogens from 70's to later 2000's) shows that this compounds have extremely large benefits.

A_bab's "reading in between the lines" is probably just that: he didn't read anything, just stared at the spaces, and had his response all ready to go.

Please post sources if you're going to bash an entire field of research, study, and possibly healing.

Magic Muzzlet - 5-3-2012 at 13:24

A_bab. You use one of the most widely used recreational drugs in all the Earth. Now, why the hell are you in this thread arguing against them? I see this as being the ultimate point showing your blindness.
You drink alcohol. It is a DEPRESSANT and leaves you with negative effects.

There are many idiots out there that want to get high, they will do so and their brains will be lesser functioning because of it, oh well.

I believe some drugs are very bad, I believe some are very good. I could go into specifics, but what good would it do?
It all depends, but your coming to a simple ended conclusion shows the ultimate lack of understanding.

Also, realize everyone reacts differently to substances, some people simply do not "hold up as well" to some drugs. Cannabis is a prime example, I know some people who are negatively effected, being slower in some ways, and some who are absolutely fine after 30+ years of constant use! But this is simply one example and only one drug.

[Edited on 5-3-2012 by Magic Muzzlet]

497 - 5-3-2012 at 13:27

What drug won't turn you into what some may see as a vegetable if abused heavily enough? So what? That has more to do with the person's desire to be a vegetable than compound's potential harm if abused. No way to protect people from themselves... Get over it. Being well proven to cause many times less harm than alcohol is sufficient right?

GreenD - 5-3-2012 at 13:33

It is also a fact that human urine contains the metabolites of DMT, the most "potent" entheogen known.

A_Bab, it is in all probability that you have experienced some sort of trip from these "illicit" substances - whether you believe it or not!

Endogenous DMT may CALM psychotic behaviors; http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306987704...

" We believe that the preponderance of the mass spectral evidence proves, to a scientific certainty, that DMT and HDMT are indeed endogenous and can be measured in human body fluids"
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/dta.422/full

You're high as a kite on serotonin all day!

a_bab - 6-3-2012 at 03:25

My only trip was during a surgery when I was given N2O as the local anesthetic was failing on me.

While it was an interesting experience to say the least, I still felt the pain, that got worse as local anethetic was wearing off. The thing is I didn't care about it - in fact I found the pain to be it quite amusing, as pretty much all the stuff in the surgery room such as the fact that the bed sheets were white. No, I don't want to repeat the experience again. While it was pleasurable I find disgusting anyone who'd do it for the sake of it.

I drink alcohol occasionally and only socially - never alone. I never get drunk, although I did get when I was young as pretty much all the people.

I'm not a purist, nor do I have religious resons.

It's just that I hate drugs. While I admit some could have a positive effect in some people and could possibly cure diseases (LSD), some other could open mind parts otherwise un and change the way one sees the world forever (ibocaine), I just don't like to loose the reality feeling.

Above all of this, I know ALL of you in this thread are not only keen about drugs in general but are interested in making them, for personal use at least. It's because people like you, and I repeat - because of you that most of the chems are now strictly controlled, and it gets worse. For fuck sake, even the lime will be controlled in EU if I'm right. Buying ammonia or acetone (still available) in France already raises eyebrows.

For a young chemist getting the hands on some RP for instance (for some noisy experiments as in the old books) could end up in ruining his family's life. This is just an example.
I'm aware that for the pyros is the same thing: due to idiots in the league eventually even the cardbord tubes will be controlled.

So don't get me wrong: I don't like mind altering stuff, that's all. And all it comes along with it: reckless chemists, who don't care about the effects of their product, the dramas, the deaths and ruined lifes, etc.
Obviously the same can be applied for a whisky producer; the difference is that while is vey unlikely to die because of a faulty whisky lot, it's quite possible to die due to an impure product/overdose/hepatitis/human misery/ all the crap associated with dope.

Pulverulescent - 6-3-2012 at 03:42

Quote:

Obviously the same can be applied for a whisky producer; the difference is that while is vey unlikely to die because of a faulty whisky lot, it's quite possible to die due to an impure product/overdose/hepatitis/human misery/ all the crap associated with dope.

No kidding?

GreenD - 6-3-2012 at 06:27

I just don't like to loose the reality feeling.

That is what you should stick to, not bashing substances because you didn't care for the experience. But don't worry - many people are the same way. I have always had great anxiety while tripping, but I understand why, and I gain from that. You seem to know that those of us who use drugs know what were talking about, but your interest is low so I won't go into more detail.

N2O isn't an entheogen. I've never had it before but I highly doubt that people have ever taken N2O for some type of positive enhancement other than escapism.

Magic Muzzlet - 6-3-2012 at 07:12

No it isn't actually as I have never made meth, opiates, any drug of "abuse" and the people who get caught making those are the ones who are responsible for issues in chemical sourcing.

I'd like to see some examples where a person with a personal lab making compounds that are not scheduled or that have not been made before resulted in a huge problem, beside Shulgin. You know well that the sole reason is because of the greedy cooks, and not the personal researchers. Again, simple ended conclusion!

Also, most of the chems? What "chems" you talking about? Last time I looked (right now) nearly anything I could want is freely available, beside obvious drug precursors I have no use for. Get better sources.

It's because people like you, and I repeat - because of you that most of the chems are now strictly controlled

Jimbo Jones - 6-3-2012 at 07:33

Quote: Originally posted by bahamuth

Jumping off a bridge with a bungie cord attached with minimal to no training is allowed, drinking as much alcohol as to die is allowed, drinking drain cleaner is allowed, exposing oneself to mutagens/carcinogens is allowed (and often forced through our foodstuff/hygiene products/work environments) so why the f**k is ingestion of certain substances not allowed!?

Why? Easy! Because you have to PAY for it!

AirCowPeaCock - 6-3-2012 at 08:20

LSD does turn you into a vegetable, eventually. Read some facts. Oh, let me guess: all those papers and studies are actually government crap, meant to brainwash an already retarded nation.

Actually if you look at the research done with government funding...but whats surprising is what they spew to the public, does not reflect their own research.

Quote: Originally posted by Ephoton

GreenD some people dont come back
from LSD or go crazy and do things that they would
never do otherwise this one is not a myth.

Sure, you could say your just simplifying the real reasons behind psychosis and HPD ('perma-tripping'), but in reality (at-least in the case of psychosis) there is no reason to believe the drug itself causes psychosis. All the evidence (though there's not much for this) points to LSD triggering latent psychosis--just as any intense experience can.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/has-krokodil--the-ho...

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/krokodil-the-drug-th...

www.foxnews.com/health/2013/09/26/first-cases-flesh-eating-d...

.

While it was an interesting experience to say the least, I still felt the pain, that got worse as local anethetic was wearing off. The thing is I didn't care about it - in fact I found the pain to be it quite amusing, as pretty much all the stuff in the surgery room such as the fact that the bed sheets were white. No, I don't want to repeat the experience again. While it was pleasurable I find disgusting anyone who'd do it for the sake of it.

It's just that I hate drugs. While I admit some could have a positive effect in some people and could possibly cure diseases (LSD), some other could open mind parts otherwise un and change the way one sees the world forever (ibocaine), I just don't like to loose the reality feeling.

I don't think you understand the term enthogenic use. Enthogen users do NOT want to get high, they do NOT want to have some fun, and they definitely are NOT doing it just for kicks. They're doing it therapeutically, spiritually, or for the 'mind expanding' effects. A common misconception about hallucinations is that they do NOT represent realtiy. You spend your day in a very specific refined mindset, this is what you think reality is. But in fact its just your current perception of reality; in a moment of great joy or fear (ect.) your perception will be changed--but its still reality. The same applies for every mindset, including those induced by psychoactive substances, is still realty--its just another perception. In the case of psychedelics its a "broader" perception--but still 100% reality.

and Jimbo Jones, you don't pay for drugs?

a_bab - 6-3-2012 at 09:06

"In the case of psychedelics its a "broader" perception--but still 100% reality."

Say this to the poor souls who jumped off the balcony to meet their death...because they KNEW they can fly.

This is exactly why I hate drugs. When I hear "My mind used to be so limited, but I had these experiences and I see the world in a total different way" all I see is a zombified person, who'd rather be stoned then go for fishing for instance.

There are very limited scenarios when I fully agree with drug use, meaning is medically requered: anesthesia, cluster headaches (treated with shrooms), mental diseases (LSD, probably other), cancer, other pain inducing diseases (insert your favorite drug here), or whatever else when there ARE benefits.
Taking drugs is really like taking pain killers without being in pain: it feels great, but you'll get hooked.

Other than that, the "spiritual enhancement of reality" sounds like pure crap to me. Reality is what ALL (or most) perceive, although there can be elements that can escape to the most and be seen only when high. Yet, you can't say the extra characters perceived by a schizo are real, just because they are in his mind. Same thing when on acid.

Let's say - one on acid can hear colors and see sounds. I'm sure he can, and this is real, connected to reality, same as you'd look thru red eyeglases - everything will become red. It's still the same reality, only slightly changed because is perceived differently. But when our hero on acid starts to see dragons and whatever else, it ain't real anymore sir.

The problem is drawing the line as to what is real and what it isn't. Any abuser will be afraid because of this, and it's a scary though not being able to know for sure where the reality ends, with all the consequeces derived from this.

[Edited on 6-3-2012 by a_bab]

AirCowPeaCock - 6-3-2012 at 09:24

If you were to take a psycadelic once, at any dose, you may hate it, you may never take it again..but twenty years later as well as the day after, you would probably think differently about the "spiritual enhancement of reality" and "broader perception" clauses of the enthogenics case. I'm not saying you should, but you don't seem to have any experience in this topic, in any way. You don't seem to have read any articles on these substances nor have you taken them. You don't have anything to have an opinion on. This is ignorance, whether your 'right' or 'wrong'.

GreenD - 6-3-2012 at 09:24

Quote:

"In the case of psychedelics its a "broader" perception--but still 100% reality."

Say this to the poor souls who jumped off the balcony to meet their death...because they KNEW they can fly.

There is a great quote for this. "Why didn't they try flying off the ground first" - obviously some EDUCATION could have fixed these problems, no? I'm guessing that I could also count the number of times this has happened on two hands and two feet.

Quote:

This is exactly why I hate drugs. When I hear "My mind used to be so limited, but I had these experiences and I see the world in a total different way" all I see is a zombified person, who'd rather be stoned then go for fishing for instance.

Or Steve Jobs, Crick, the guy who threw a no hitter in the MLB, etc, etc. I'm not a zombified person, I rarely ever smoke pot, and fishing isn't what I get the enjoyment out of - it is the beauty of nature.

Quote:

There are very limited scenarios when I fully agree with drug use, meaning is medically requered: anesthesia, cluster headaches (treated with shrooms), mental diseases (LSD, probably other), cancer, other pain inducing diseases (insert your favorite drug here), or whatever else when there ARE benefits. Taking drugs is really like taking pain killers without being in pain: it feels great, but you'll get hooked.

From your personal experience, and a few posts back it looks like this hypothesis is pretty false isn't it? Having your body wripped apart in an astral plain or confronting all the pain on earth in a 4 hour duration does not feel that great. Yet the understanding it brings is paramount. Something that people who haven't experienced it are not going to understand, and thus will end up like Rosco

Quote:

Other than that, the "spiritual enhancement of reality" sounds like pure crap to me. Reality is what ALL (or most) perceive, although there can be elements that can escape to the most and be seen only when high. Yet, you can't say the extra characters perceived by a schizo are real, just because they are in his mind. Same thing when on acid.

Easy for you to say, isn't it. You've never been there. Take a hit of DMT (it lasts 15 minutes) - you will talk to some entities, and it will be hard to utterly convince yourself it was "all in my head".

Quote:

Let's say - one on acid can hear colors and see sounds. I'm sure he can, and this is real, connected to reality, same as you'd look thru red eyeglases - everything will become red. It's still the same reality, only slightly changed because is perceived differently. But when our hero on acid starts to see dragons and whatever else, it ain't real anymore sir.

no shit. An educated user won't come out of an LSD trip wearing armor and a shield ready for the dragon attacks. A real understanding (and hence this entire thread) is needed to approach these substances on a progressive note. You are perfectly correct in saying that if you believe everything you see at face value while tripping will get you no where and probably be harmful. But seeing the connections between what you see and what is real is what is paramount. That "Dragon" that you see is real, in your mind, and there is a reason that it has presented itself. It could simply be because you recently watched a movie on dragons, it could be you have a fear of snakes, doesn't matter. The psychology associated to a trip can open up realizations that would be nearly impossible to have while sober.

Quote:

The problem is drawing the line as to what is real and what it isn't. Any abuser will be afraid because of this, and it's a scary though not being able to know for sure where the reality ends, with all the consequeces derived from this.

It seems to me that you are more afraid of being wrong about reality than you are actually in disposition with drugs. The evidence is very high that there is something going on that we cannot explain completely. I do not personally have a standpoint on spirituality / god / far-out ideas about psychedelics, but I most certainly do not discredit it.
I am a very analytical person, and in the past half-dozen years I have devoted much of my time to understanding psychology. The insights I have gained while on psychedelics are far beyond what comes while sober. And as you said - they are like putting on glasses, it is still reality, but a different perspective. A good analogy I've used is we see reality our entire life as if we're walking in it, we can see up, forward, back and side to side, but our perspective is limited. Taking psychedelics can, at times, give a bird's eye view of where one is in reality, what the destinations and paths are, and what is truly going on.

[Edited on 6-3-2012 by GreenD]

[Edited on 6-3-2012 by GreenD]

a_bab - 6-3-2012 at 10:13

Oh, now I remember something interesting. When at school I used to play with my mates the infameous "fainting game". The odd thing I remeber is that the "trips" while only took few seconds they felt to be like hours or entire days; I remember it also felt when finally awake as I actually didn't belong to this world but I was rather a part of "there". The sensations were really strong, much more vivid then a dream.

Hmmm, I can even remember parts of this now. I don't remember exactly what were the dreams about but I remember the strong sensations.
I can imagine the psichoactive stuff is much more powerfull that the foolish game.
Yet I'm not interested.

I live in an area where I literally step on Amanita Muscaria but it's not my game.

AirCowPeaCock - 6-3-2012 at 10:18

I've always wanted to find A. Muscaria, not for the dileriant effects (dileriants, now thoughs are dangerous drugs), I just want to preserve it, and keep it as my trophy mushroom.

Sorry, off topic

GreenD - 6-3-2012 at 11:45

I ate amanita without bowling it or cooking it. Not a great idea. It too is not one of the more rewarding entheogens.

I see what you are doing a_bab, but everything will come short of the real thing.

Fenimore - 12-6-2012 at 21:58

I am morally inclined to be against escapism as much as I am critical about the use of hallucinogens with the intent of expanding or opening one's mind. I am more emotionally attached to the idea of the latter because it is my intention to avoid closing myself off to possibilities.

One thing I think that is not considered very often is the fact that one of the only things that makes a dream different from a "trip" is that our body does a good job of taking away our muscle function during most dreams. I though one might see dragons that does not make them unreal. You may not think the dragon is real but that guy tripping on acid sees them. An atheist may not believe in God but he knows god is very real. A dream is unarguably real. Your mind contains memories and your subconscious holds these memories.

What we do to unravel our subconscious is a crap shoot.
I do feel that because we are given opportunity through psychoactive drugs it would not be in the spirit of science not to find controlled ways to experiment with them... Of course that's going off topic.

It is useless to blame one or another for the restrictions on substances. Government's flaws are the result of compromises as are our personal flaws and insecurities. Perhaps some of these insecurities resemble whatever the causes of our psychoses are. It is hard to even understand what a psychosis is, but effort to understand it is also effort to finding out what reality is.

"Time should be used for what it is best for --examining contrast."

497 - 13-6-2012 at 10:18

Quote:

Taking drugs is really like taking pain killers without being in pain: it feels great, but you'll get hooked.

This is where you're making a mistake. You cannot assume that all drugs "take away pain!" There is a direct correlation between anesthetic/dissociative qualities of a drug and its attraction to the escapist. Anesthetic/dissociative abuse, is a much more accurate way to describe it, and I could never condone it, because of the relatively high risks involved. How many anesthetics/dissociatives (like alcohol) out there haven't been heavily abused? Conversely, some drugs have 0 anesthetic effect, and some even have the opposite.

The benefits of being made acutely aware of your internal conflicts/hypocrisy so that you are forced reevaluate your life, should never be equated to drowning them in a sea of numbness!

Nonanesthetic drugs tend to result in a different perspective, and often a greater understanding of the chemistry within the human brain... Once many people begin to understand their own brains, they will stop prioritizing the things that keep our economy/society running (greed, insecurity, fear, etc.) That is why they're still illegal, and that is why they're so scary to so many people. Fear of change is a powerful thing...

Finally, some people here still seem to be operating under the assumption that the gov't truly wants to get rid of illicit drug use. Nothing could be further from the truth! Just imagine how much less profit would be made if the drugs were legal, and gov't didn't spend trillions of our money stamping out the competition to their pet cartels. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_drug_traffi...

PS Anyone claiming that significant harm would result from decriminalization/legalization is bullshitting with no independent evidence to back up their claims. It's been done successfully in a number of countries, the earliest being Portugal. http://www.tokeofthetown.com/2012/04/how_portugal_successful...

From Fox of all places: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/03/04/biden-travels-to-...

Quote:

Presidents of Costa Rica, Guatemala, El Salvador, Colombia and Mexico, all grappling with the extremely violent fallout of a failing drug war, have said in recent weeks they'd like to open up the discussion of legalizing drugs. Argentina, Uruguay, Peru and Mexico already allow the use of small amounts of marijuana for personal consumption, while political leaders from Brazil and Colombia are discussing alternatives to locking up drug users.

[Edited on 14-6-2012 by 497]

hyfalcon - 13-6-2012 at 14:33

Be glad my friends. Be glad you don't have to walk a mile in my shoes. At the age of six, I was riding on the top of a lawn mower my twelve year old cousin was driving. He hit the brakes and I tumbled off forward. The mower ran up on my left lower leg. I have lived since then with pain I can't really begin to describe to someone who doesn't experience it themselves. I've had twenty operations on the foot and leg. I have no heal or Achilles tendon. My left leg is 1.5 in. shorter than the right leg. The way I see the war on drugs is just another roadblock to getting the medications that I need to walk. You should see my teeth. Ground down from so much gritting the dentist want me to wear a mouth protector at night. I say Doc, It's not at night I grit my teeth, it's every time I have to take a step on the damn foot. You go in to a doctors office and tell them you need pain meds and they look at you like you're a red headed stepchild or something. Damn law dogs are so fanatic that even the doctors are running scarred. I'm here to tell you right now, if you're in pain, that in itself negates SOME of the more sedative effects of any drug. When does it stop being a drug and become a medication? I don't need big brother telling me when or if I need to take a drug. I've already discovered what works for me and gets me through the day, it's just a shame I have to go to the street to get it. What is you ask that I take? 2 , sometimes 3, depending on my activity level, Percocets a day and about 4 good bowls of some Mexican swag. If I get better weed then my consumption drops. I haven't found anything that takes care of the neuralgia, but the MJ helps to ride the wave so to speak till it crests and I'm on the other side. I'm just as down on crap like crank as anyone should be. I've seen what kind of destruction that causes individuals and anyone with half a mind would RUN the other way from that poison. Okay now, hyfalcon climbs down off his soapbox now and crawls back under his rock.

All this prohibition on drugs is doing is making it harder on those of us who really need access to these substances. It forces us to the black market which I would really like to not have to do.

[Edited on 13-6-2012 by hyfalcon]

Panache - 16-6-2012 at 11:50

some significant research has been published this year relating to the use of psilocybin as a treatment for non responsive severe or major depression. its interesting reading, the articles are up in refs where i requested them.
As i very unfortunately am in the aforementioned health group and as we have just seen through autumn here in the southern hemisphere i have now a source of the medicine and will be trying out the treatment routine used in the british journal of phschaitry article. i told my physc about my intentions. i seriously don't reckon the guy has ever read any physchiatric research or at least not in the last twenty years, he told he would be concerned about a physchotic episode i told him as soon as there is some quantitative methodology for characterising depression i'd promise to learn how to spell physchitrist, there are methods i was just pretty sure he wouldn't have a clue, sure enough not a twig, then our thirty minute $180 session is up.
now i should state i don't dislike the man and i'm sure he has a decent impact upon the lives of those in his care but if a flagship journal publishes a paper claiming single dosage treatment of those mentioned earlier with 60% fmir based quantified results that they would twig, at least read the damm papers, bah boring rant.

i'll report back on my trial, i'm on a 150 day, 1 mg reduction per day attempt to wean myself of that droll effexor ssri. can't stand the forehead sweating.

so there you go, drugs are medicines and medicines are drugs. apparently there many unreported suffocation deaths in gay sex on site clubs from dudes asphixiating whilst under the dreaded meth spell. that last bit was really irrelevant, 8)

oh and hy thats an unfortunate thing, truly sad, my sympathies. i bet you get alot of do gooders giving you the 'what ever doesn't kill you makes you stronger' nuggets, what a load of shit, or better yet 'god has a plan for all of us', yeah his plan for me is to make living shit and generally be completely disinterested in anything concerning me.

[Edited on 16-6-2012 by Panache]

[Edited on 16-6-2012 by Panache]

hyfalcon - 16-6-2012 at 12:11

Pain is just a fact of life. Whatever helps you deal with it and go on is the name of the game the way I see it.

The Zombies are coming

franklyn - 27-9-2013 at 11:18

Okay , we all know ' Bath Salts ' gives rise to cannibalistic yearnings.
Related thread here => www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=15225
What is missing is a matching necrotic appearance to complete the motif. Pharmacological science has provided the solution.

Krokodil ( Crocodile ) the street name for improvised Desomorphine
www.drugfuture.com/chemdata/desomorphine.html
http://controlled-substances.findthedata.org/l/70/Desomorphine
https://toxwiki.wikispaces.com/file/view/Desomorphine.pdf
Related thread here => www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=19086

Krokodil a cheap heroin substitute that is cooked from codeine pills , gasoline , iodine and red phosphorus. It gets it's name from the stench and reptilian texture it gives to an addict’s skin before it eventually eats it completely away , often leaving a user's bones exposed. Krokodil users are instantly identifiable because of their smell. It's the smell of iodine that infuses their clothes. There's no way to wash it out , all you can do is burn the clothes. Any flat that has been used as a Krokodil cooking house is best forgotten about as a place to live , you'll never get the flat rid of that smell. Krokodil was given its reptilian name because poisonous incidental contaminants quickly turn the skin scaly. If you miss the vein , that's an abscess straight away. Effects are horrific , late stage Krokodil addicts are disturbing in the extreme. Flesh goes grey and peels away to leave bones exposed. People literally rot to death. Life expectancy for a user is two to three years.

Actually I see a lot of good coming from this bold initiative of ' better living through chemistry '. The sociological value of this wonder drug must not be overlooked. Such a mortality rate can well be the godsend to inner city crime and urban societal decay. Environmentalists championing the ' urgent ' need to eliminate human generated global warming , just now confirmed in a United Nations report , provides the pretext needed to sequester millions of unnecessary people in FEMA camps and dose them with Desomorphine for humane disposal. This ' Resident Evil ' can at long last can be dealt with in an ethically palatable manner preceding the post apocalyptic collectivist utopia.
In the interest of ' amateur science ' post what recipe you recommend for it's field expedient production. Be the first on your street to introduce this wildly popular new alternative to Methedrine.

Indulge me to entertain you just a bit more

C L I C K ON THE PICTURE Then Fast forward to time ~ 3:30

C L I C K ON THE PICTURE Then Fast forward to time ~ 2:00

C L I C K ON THE PICTURE

Organikum - 28-9-2013 at 02:30

These pictures prove that all prohibition must be ended, as obviously people will take any risk to get drugged.
So let them and supply them with clean stuff, thats the reasonable thing to do.

Anyways the same as in my bed the state has no business in my veins and in my brain.
That people sign away this so very basic right of self-determination is beyond me.

Drugs aren´t the problem.
Prohibition makes the problems.

/ORG

PS: Peddling drugs to minors should be severly punished though and most important alcohol must be restricted as heroin - you can have it, but not easily.

Pulverulescent - 28-9-2013 at 03:28

Quote:

These pictures prove that all prohibition must be ended, as obviously people will take any risk to get drugged.

Yes! Prohibition sees to it that the dangers of drugs are magnified to the point of lethality!
Drugs themselves are neutral ─ but prohibition kills people!
And the fucks perpetuating this murderous obscenity are acting in a criminal manner and should be fucking made to pay for the absolute shite they've foisted on society for nearly a century . . .
In a anyways decent society they'd be the ones doing hard-labour without parole!!!

bfesser - 28-9-2013 at 05:41

These pictures prove that all prohibition must be ended, as obviously people will take any risk to get drugged. So let them and supply them with clean stuff, thats the reasonable thing to do.

I don't really want to get dragged into a politicized argument, but I feel that I must play the role of devil's advocate here. I don't believe in what I'm saying:

From a certain perspective, these people are not contributing anything positive to society. Letting them rot is an effective way of removing them from society, and preventing their inferior genes from being passed on. If the drugs were to be legalized and 'clean' drugs supplied, they'd just be baked out of their minds 24/7 and would leach off society. Natural selection doesn't really work anymore, so this may be the next best thing.

What I really believe:
We should do everything we can to help these poor people—but I don't think that "legalize it" is the best solution. Laws are often necessary to protect us from others' stupidity.

Pulverulescent - 28-9-2013 at 06:05

Jeeez! That's about as ignorant a comment as is possible to make!
What the fuck is wrong with you?
Are you blind or comatose, or what???

bfesser - 28-9-2013 at 06:18

Care to elaborate and explain yourself, or would you like to just continue with the insults?

Pyro - 28-9-2013 at 06:26

UGH, franklyn that is DISGUSTING! YUCK! that put me off my food, but I guess that's my fault for watching it while eating

bfesser, those people can't be helped, it's too late for them. they should show this in schools, on television (as advertisments),... to warn people for whom it isn't too late

I believe legalize it is a good solution for many drugs, often the real damage is done by impurities that come from processing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZLiWWK_TYI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETGDPlcE-NE
they use leaded gasoline and hardware store chemicals! not to mention how many times it gets mixed with other stuff before one buys it.
If some drugs were legalized, made industrially and sold free of contaminants it would be a lot better.
1)every country can tax them and make big profits, 2)people wouldn't poison themselves with contaminants, 3)it is possible to control how much gets used,...

Pulverulescent - 28-9-2013 at 06:37

These pictures prove that all prohibition must be ended, as obviously people will take any risk to get drugged. So let them and supply them with clean stuff, thats the reasonable thing to do.

You write that foul excrement and I'm the one with explaining to do???
I mean, shite that's too low even for Pyro ─ WTF!!!

watson.fawkes - 28-9-2013 at 06:45

Quote: Originally posted by franklyn

Actually I see a lot of good coming from this bold initiative of ' better living through chemistry '. The sociological value of this wonder drug must not be overlooked. Such a mortality rate can well be the godsend to inner city crime and urban societal decay.

Do you believe in killing the poor in other ways, as well?

Your comment illustrates more acutely than most why I am regularly disgusted at you.

I must play the role of devil's advocate here.

A roll which, when played on the internet, is more commonly known by the term "troll", and which has evidently already been effective.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/2735137795001/flesh-eating-krokod...

I don't really want to get dragged into a politicized argument [...]

Then don't reply. Really, it's a pretty basic concept.

bfesser - 28-9-2013 at 07:10

Pulverulescent, I just don't know which part you're angry about; the part where I was being cynical or the part where I was being honest?

watson.fawkes, fair enough. I don't plan to reply further, really. I just want to know what Pulverulescent's so offended by.

Pulverulescent - 28-9-2013 at 08:20

Quote:

What I really believe:
We should do everything we can to help these poor people—but I don't think that "legalize it" is the best solution. Laws are often necessary to protect us from others' stupidity.

That I should have to tell you is bad, by itself ─ you've expressed support for something that is an ongoing US State-sponsored criminal conspiracy/enterprise which has visited numerous countries around the globe with what amounts to the equivalent of an Holocaust!!!
Innocents butchered, lives ruined, families destroyed, trigger-happy-militarised police forces and the rise of the drug-cartels where low-lifes become billionaires overnight on the backs of ordinary working people ─ are the 'fruits' of this WOD you voice your support for!!!
And that you don't seem to know anything about the shit that's going down for so long makes you look the complete asshat!!!

hyfalcon - 28-9-2013 at 12:29

I'm a dyed in the wool Libertarian. I'm all for legalization of some drugs, but that being said, there ARE some drugs that should have never seen the light of day. Is prohibition working? Not in your wildest dreams.

bfesser - 28-9-2013 at 14:06

Pulverulescent, you're reading way too much into what I wrote—I generally don't make implications. Also, cut out the argumentum ad hominem, or you'll find your posts in Detritus.

I remember watching this documentary some time ago:
<iframe sandbox width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/JsUH8llvTZo?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[I'm done replying to this thread.]

[Edited on 29.9.13 by bfesser]

Finnnicus - 29-9-2013 at 04:34

Getting back a little more on topic.

Being raised in a family that accepts responsible use of illicit drugs, I have been given a respect and a bit of an education for this matter. Only last year I started to gain an interest in chemistry and since its made basic pharmacology and chemistry of drugs more interesting.
I think even without a slight academic interest, if people are educated instead of just being told that *** is illegal and is something to run away from, it will make lots of precautions that are in place arbitrary. If most drugs were treated sort of like tobacco is treated now ((deterred, but not illegal) maybe with a little less drama aswell) it would create a healthier culture.

Kind of rambling now. That's just what I got to can in, even though I probably know nothing of the matter; I haven't ever used drugs.

Pulverulescent - 29-9-2013 at 08:00

Quote:

I remember watching this documentary some time ago:

For entertainment? You obviously gave it scant thought . . .

bfesser - 29-9-2013 at 09:21

Pulverulescent, I don't know what your problem is, but back off. Perhaps your reading comprehension is lacking, because you clearly don't understand what I've written. My suggestion: stop trying to tell others what to believe or what you think their views are.

[edit] By the way, I won't tolerate any more of this either:

Quote:

Ah, but just how do you react to being informed that you're an unthinking ignoramus?

Change your attitude, or expect to see a lot more of your posts land in Detritus.

[Edited on 29.9.13 by bfesser]

Senator Feinstein Supports Pot and Cocaine!!

gregxy - 29-9-2013 at 10:03

That's right! She is sponsoring a bill that would ban all those "diabolical synthetic drugs". We will still have pot, coke, a bunch of antibiotics and of course botox. Pfizer is not going to
like this!

https://www.drugfree.org/join-together/drugs/senator-feinste...

mayko - 29-9-2013 at 10:30

In krokodil news: krokodil rears its head in Phoenix, AZ

http://boingboing.net/2013/09/27/krokodil-russias-rot-your-f...

Chemosynthesis - 29-9-2013 at 10:31

Wow, why all the hostility? I am not sure if it is appropriate for me to comment, but I don't see subjective, normative value statements as having any purpose in science, which should be dealing with objective measures. Pharmacology is an area of professional specialization for me, if that appeal to authority lends any credence to my view. We can all disagree on values, but shouldn't on data.

Pulverulescent - 29-9-2013 at 12:25

Quote:

By the way, I won't tolerate any more of this either:

Quote:

Ah, but just how do you react to being informed that you're an unthinking ignoramus?

Change your attitude, or expect to see a lot more of your posts land in Detritus.

Oh, all right ─ kid gloves back on . . .

franklyn - 29-9-2013 at 22:20

Fast forward to time ~ 6:24
www.youtube.com/embed/JsUH8llvTZo

What is not evident in the evening news is that the cold war never really ended it just became privatised.

Before 1980 , Afghanistan produced 0 % of the world's opium. After the US / CIA backed Mujahideen won the Soviet / Afghan war , by 1986 they were producing 40 % of the worlds heroin supply. By 1999 , they were producing 80 % of the total market supply. Then something unanticipated happened. The Taliban took control of Afghanistan. By 2000 they had destroyed most of the poppy fields and opium production plummeted from 3000 + tons to perhaps 185 tons , 94 % reduction. On September 9th 2001 , the full plan for invasion of Afghanistan were reviewed by then President Bush. Two days later came the pretext for invasion when the world trade center was made rubble by Saudi militants. Today , opium production in US controlled Afghanistan , provides more than 90 % of the worlds heroin. The strict Muslim code of civil conduct precludes there can ever be the sort of societal decay depicted in neighboring Russia. So , for who is this heroin intended if it is not to undermine the Islamic nations trafficking it.

______________________________

But wait that's not all , order now and you also get
The Manchurian candidate ( oh , so you think I'm kidding )
www.youtube.com/embed/ToQ8PWYnu04

______________________________

@ watson.fawkes
You're disgusted with me ? Darwin award contenders as anyone else can either have lots of freedom as I always advocate or you can have none at all. Each has it's consequences which you conspicuously deny. For the flip side of licentiousness click on the ass of Miley Cyrus.

[Edited on 30-9-2013 by franklyn]

They're , here . . .

franklyn - 15-10-2013 at 23:02

http://video.foxnews.com/v/2735137795001/flesh-eating-krokod...

Pulverulescent - 16-10-2013 at 06:42

Quote: Originally posted by franklyn

Yeah, prohibition kills people in so many different and creative ways!

testimento - 20-10-2013 at 10:48

If the information on illicit material can be used to bring down totalitarian governments than cannot follow the UN human rights code, then yes, it must be educated.

Organikum - 21-10-2013 at 02:42

These pictures prove that all prohibition must be ended, as obviously people will take any risk to get drugged. So let them and supply them with clean stuff, thats the reasonable thing to do.

Of course drugusers contribute a lot of positive to society. You know youre argument is not valid, why make it? (I wont present the endless list of famous drugusers now, everybody knows).

What you also dont realize is that 90% of the drugusers are "normal" people, pillars of society, no shit. Half the code which runs the Internet was probably written on speed and its the better half for sure. Coffee? lol. Start dealing and you are in for some surprises regarding your customers. (I dont do this anymore btw.).

What you believe doesnt make much sense in any way. Its confused.
And please refrain from helping me (as in your world I classify as addict of course). The worst things in my life were caused by people with good intentions. People who get off by feeling helpful when they just help their own ego.

You should support legalisation! As some acid might help you with your alcohol problem.
There were good results before it was outlawed.

/ORG

PS: IIRC "Krokodil" was an OTC medication and the horrible pictures show what you get when you slam pills without extraction. Its the fillers. The stuff made by HI or hydrogenation is called "Braun" and was the traditional heroin replacement in the eastern block. Without such consequences.

[Edited on 21-10-2013 by Organikum]

[Edited on 21-10-2013 by Organikum]

mayko - 21-10-2013 at 04:33