Sciencemadness Discussion Board

nitration of cellulose?

smeesh - 22-3-2012 at 12:23

lets say i had some nitric acid (between 50-60% con)
if i dropped some cotton in there and waited, i dont assume it would yield nitrocellulose.

without the use of sulfuric acid, how could i nitrate the cotton?

would heating help? perhaps only exposing the cotton to the nitric acid vapor?

are there any desiccant materials i could use to increase the acids concentration before i add my cellulose?

thank ya sirs and mams.

Adas - 22-3-2012 at 12:53

H2SO4 works well, if you want to remove even more water, add MgSO4 (anhydrous)

VladimirLem - 22-3-2012 at 12:56

that wouldn't work...i made some with 65%HNO3 -AND- 94<% H2SO4 and that was really shitty "quality"...it burned fast, but waaay slowlyer than using HOKO HNO3...
that was really low nitrated stuff, so i guess without the H2SO4 it will be wasting your HNO3

smeesh - 22-3-2012 at 15:17

thats what ive heard and read from most people and sources ive checked out.
i have only a basic knowledge of the mechanics involved in chemistry, but i do know some of the basic principles.
ive heard that the sulfuric acid is a catalyst for the reaction that creates the nitronium ion. if thats true, it seemed logical that one could replace a catalyst with other sources of activation energy like heat. and yes, i know that heating nitric acid is generally a bad idea. but i gotta do what i gotta do!...jk.
the only other purpose i know of that the sulfuric acid serves is to get rid of H20 in the solution. it is for this reason that i mentioned desiccant materials.

again...ill put a disclaimer on this. im into mechanical engineering much more than chemistry.

Bot0nist - 22-3-2012 at 20:39

Just get some rooto drain opener at the hardware store. Even if it is dirty as shit, it will work in a cellulose nitrate synthesis.

SB15 - 24-3-2012 at 10:55

H<sub>2</sub>SO<sub>4 (aq)</sub> protonates the nitric acid, forming electrophillic nitronium ions which attack the nucleophillic oxygen in cellulose and create the ester.

C<sub>6</sub>H<sub>10</sub>O<sub>5</sub> + 3HNO<sub>3 (aq)</sub> -> C<sub>6</sub>H<sub>7</sub>O<sub>2</sub>(ONO<sub>2</sub>;)<sub>3</sub> + 3H<sub>2</sub>O (trinitrate)

Without a catalyst, the equilibrium strongly favours the left side, and cellulose trinitrate will not form.

smeesh - 25-3-2012 at 12:51

thats unfortunate.
perhaps ill just use ye old sulfuric acid.
im a bit of a strange one in that i dont like to use chemicals that i cant synthesize myself with "renewable" materials. im working on a birkeland eyde reactor with some success to produce the nitric acid.
the sulfuric acid is a bit more complicated...and i cant pull it out of thin air. also, other than bubbling sulfur dioxide through water i dont know of anyways to make the acid without sulfur or compounds that contain sulfur.

Adas - 26-3-2012 at 09:03

Quote: Originally posted by smeesh  
thats unfortunate.
perhaps ill just use ye old sulfuric acid.
im a bit of a strange one in that i dont like to use chemicals that i cant synthesize myself with "renewable" materials. im working on a birkeland eyde reactor with some success to produce the nitric acid.
the sulfuric acid is a bit more complicated...and i cant pull it out of thin air. also, other than bubbling sulfur dioxide through water i dont know of anyways to make the acid without sulfur or compounds that contain sulfur.


Make ozone generator and blow the ozone on sulfur, and collect the gasses into a little water. (Too expensive in the means of electricity, but works).

Pulverulescent - 26-3-2012 at 09:23

Quote: Originally posted by Adas  
Quote: Originally posted by smeesh  
thats unfortunate.
perhaps ill just use ye old sulfuric acid.
im a bit of a strange one in that i dont like to use chemicals that i cant synthesize myself with "renewable" materials. im working on a birkeland eyde reactor with some success to produce the nitric acid.
the sulfuric acid is a bit more complicated...and i cant pull it out of thin air. also, other than bubbling sulfur dioxide through water i dont know of anyways to make the acid without sulfur or compounds that contain sulfur.


Make ozone generator and blow the ozone on sulfur, and collect the gasses into a little water. (Too expensive in the means of electricity, but works).

Finding clear draincleaner and a nitrate whose sulphate salt is soluble is so much easier than fucking around with inefficient, high voltage apparatuses!

video on nitrocelluose

annaandherdad - 27-3-2012 at 08:40

See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldPHzCnRYos

Vikascoder - 3-4-2012 at 08:19

i tried making nitrocellulose without h2so4 but the nitric acid eat away my nitrocellulose like a pest eat crops . it was just a failure and waste of my70% nitric acid . watch nurdrage video on youtube for making sulfuric acid