Sciencemadness Discussion Board - New Energetic Materials - Current Research

New Energetic Materials - Current Research

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DubaiAmateurRocketry - 24-5-2016 at 17:32

I diluted the solution with water to make it easy to crystallize, but this can make unprotonated ANQ to crystallize also. Heated by flame on aluminium foil it releases lots of white fumes, leaving litle residue.
I don't have any equipment to analyze it, but could be an interesting propellant if it's actually ANQ nitrate.

ive never played with ANQ, try burn it, do you obtain the same result?

Do you have any thin volumetric tube ? You can try determine the density using it. Get a liquid that most likely will not dissolve this salt, like benzene or hexane (I could be wrong), for the purpose.

If you obtained for example, nitroguanidine, the density is significantly lower. If say nitration failed and you still have ANQ, the density is also significantly lower than actual ANQ nitrate.

PHILOU Zrealone - 25-5-2016 at 02:39

Quote: Originally posted by DubaiAmateurRocketry

Quote: Originally posted by kratomiter

I would suggest the sink or float test of a single cristal into a saturated solution of ZnCl2 or NaI into water set at a density of 1.8
Then nitroguanidine (d= 1.71) or ANQ (d= 1.72) will float while ANQN (d=1.91) will sink...

[Edited on 25-5-2016 by PHILOU Zrealone]

Microtek - 25-5-2016 at 12:39

Assuming that the ANQ nitrate dissociates completely on dissolving in water (not a given), recrystallizing from water would be equivalent with recrystallizing ANQ from very dilute nitric acid - which is reported to give only ANQ. I recommend just washing the product with isopropanol and then drying.

kratomiter - 26-5-2016 at 11:10

I'm sorry, I don't have any resource to determine the density. It was a mess because of the large amount of nitric acid. I'll repeat it again in the future, now I'm busy.

Microtek: I didn't think it, but maybe you're right, depending on ANQ's pKa. My knowlegment in chemistry is low. Maybe could I differentiate between ANQ or ANQ nitrate measuring the pH? ANQ nitrate should be fairly acidic.

PHILOU Zrealone - 27-5-2016 at 01:24

Quote: Originally posted by kratomiter

I'm sorry, I don't have any resource to determine the density. It was a mess because of the large amount of nitric acid. I'll repeat it again in the future, now I'm busy.

Microtek: I didn't think it, but maybe you're right, depending on ANQ's pKa. My knowlegment in chemistry is low. Maybe could I differentiate between ANQ or ANQ nitrate measuring the pH? ANQ nitrate should be fairly acidic.

Yes Microtek is right about dilution into water for recrystalization...it ruins your ANQN and sets HNO3 free

Determination of pH will be much less practical than density...
Because pH can be done with pH-meter but is not very effective for the regio below pH=1; same applies for pH-paper or pH indicators...

I doubt you don't have the resource to determine density...you simply need:
-a scale (the more sensitive, the lowest the quantity of solution you need)
-a graduated recipient (or a given volume recipient; ideally a volumetric flask (measuring flask or graduated flask))
-a salt that allow for an increase of density of the solution in the wished range (1.80 g/cm³)
-a test tube
-a single "large" Crystal (ideally >1 mm)

If you can work properly even a simple test tube will do in the place of the graduated recipient. Use demi water at 20°C to calibrate and set the volume with a thin permanent ink pen...

Ideally the salt must be unreactive towards the compound, but since the measure is a fast test, even if some dissolves and react after a few seconds with the solution, the measure has already be done.

Alternatively with a calibrated test tube, and a larger quantity of crystals, you can do a real density measurement...
But then you need a solvent in what your compound doesn't dissolve and that is lighter than your compound --> d<1.6
1°)Weight tube empty (E)
2°)Weight tube with demi water up to calibration line (W)
3°)Empty the tube and dry the tube
4°)Fill tube with solvent up to line and weight (S) then add rod then weight(S+R)
5°)Introduce crystals into the tube by tiny portions while stirring with the rod (to take bubbles away)
6°)Weight tube+solvent+crystals+rod (T)
7°)Lift the rod above tube and allow all drops to fall into tube; then take excess solvent above the line away with a pipette and replace the rod in tube...then weight.(T')

With all this you know that density of water arround 20°C is approx 1.00 g/cm³; so:
a) W-E is the weight of water (=volume) under the line
b) (S-E)/(W-E) is the density of S vs water (dS)
c) T-(S+R) is the weight of crystals you added
d) T-T' is the weight of displaced solvent
--> Since you know dS you may find the volume of displaced solvent = (T-T')/dS = (T-T')*(W-E)/(S-E)
--> you can find the density of your compound = weight of crystals/volume displaced
= (T-(S+R))*(S-E)/((T-T')*(W-E))

[Edited on 27-5-2016 by PHILOU Zrealone]

kratomiter - 29-5-2016 at 08:55

Thank you PHILOU for your clear explanation, but the yield was low, so I have make the salt again and then try to measure the density.

Microtek - 30-8-2016 at 00:44

I just found this (theoretical) paper on the intercalation compound between hexagonal boron nitride (used in lubricating systems so it should be possible to procure it) and fuming nitric acid.

The compound has given very high values in calculations with thermochemical code, far in excess of current high performance energetics. However, I haven't been able to find any experimental accounts.

Attachment: Intercalated BN_HNO3.pdf (2.6MB)
This file has been downloaded 968 times

MineMan - 30-8-2016 at 16:03

Microtek, you got me excited there... But this paper is 21 years old, surly we would have heard more on this by now if it were sucsussful.

PHILOU Zrealone - 31-8-2016 at 04:05

Quote: Originally posted by MineMan

Microtek, you got me excited there... But this paper is 21 years old, surly we would have heard more on this by now if it were sucsussful.

The mix HNO3/BN may be very powerful but unpractical owing to the corrosive, toxic and hazardous fuming HNO3.

A bit like Axt's ANNMSA mix:
AN = NH4NO3 (ammonium nitrate)
NM = CH3-NO2 (nitromethane)
SA = H2SO4 (concentrated sulfuric acid)

Microtek - 31-8-2016 at 08:20

It is also possible that the method that was used in estimating the performance parameters (VOD 18 km/s and Pcj 640 kBar) was not suitable for this system, and grossly overestimated the performance.
Still, the report on page 6 of this thread (first post on that page, by Franklyn) titled "The Future of Warheads Armor & Ballistics" was published in 2007, and the table in the report that lists the BN/HNO3 intercalated compound is based on a Swedish military report from 2006, so it was thought possible 10 years ago.

So, the point I'm trying to make here, is that given that the precursors are cheap and readily available (ebay has lots of postings for hexagonal boron nitride), perhaps it would be worth an experiment or two. I have ordered a paper that hopefully has some experimental details on the proces of making intercalated compounds of BN and Brønsted acids.

MineMan - 31-8-2016 at 17:17

Yah! I am excited to hear your results and updates. 18km/s... even if the real value is 9500m/s I will be excited.

Does anybody have any idea of the VOD of Axt's mixture?

nitro-genes - 1-9-2016 at 04:05

That's amazingly fast, I presume the boron nitride's incredible speed of sound is one of the properties of the BN-HNO3 composition that makes it this fast?

Somewhat off topic maybe, but similar: If you would have a reducable (high energy potential) ceramic like material with very high speed of sound and powder it like using aluminium powder, would it be possible to have thermobaric effects with almost no loss of brisance?

Something like this, a corrosion resistant magnesium/lithium alloy with very high energy potential:

http://www.asminternational.org/news/industry/-/journal_cont...

Or use dopes to increase material hardness and speed of sound, like this:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11093-diamond-loses-i...

Or would the speed of sound be negatively affected by inhomogenity and only be that high in single compound materials?

[Edited on 1-9-2016 by nitro-genes]

Microtek - 7-9-2016 at 01:04

So, now I've had the opportunity to read an experimental paper on the preparation of intercalates of hexagonal boron nitride and a number of Brønsted acids. It's a good news/bad news situation:

The good: The preparation of intercalates is extremely simple; you simply add hBN (which they bought from an abrasives company in a particle size range of up to 10 um, and used without any additional treatment) to the desired acid in a test tube, stir it with a glass rod, let it settle and decant the excess acid. Then the slurry is heated to dryness, at atmospheric pressure or lower.

The bad: Using nitric acid does not yield any sign of an intercalated compound... However, perchloric acid does. I would suppose that the intercalated compound of hBN and perchloric acid is comparable to the one with nitric acid. It is often the case in papers that use computational methods to predict explosive performance, that perchlorates are omitted. This is probably due to the thermochemical code not working well with this class of salts, so I am guessing that this may also be the reason that it was the HNO3 intercalate that was mentioned in the paper on future energetics.

If it works, the compound with perchloric acid could have the advantage of being much less volatile than nitric.

MineMan - 7-9-2016 at 10:54

Ok, any reports of experimental VOD or volume of gas produced?? Please keep us updated.

PHILOU Zrealone - 7-9-2016 at 16:51

Quote: Originally posted by nitro-genes

That's amazingly fast, I presume the boron nitride's incredible speed of sound is one of the properties of the BN-HNO3 composition that makes it this fast?

...

Or would the speed of sound be negatively affected by inhomogenity and only be that high in single compound materials?

The speed of sound into a dense hard mono-cristal is not the same as the speed of sound into a powdery material surrounded by a gas or by a liquid...the weakest link will prevail into the speed of sound for this second case...thus the gas or the liquid...and into the present BN/HNO3 case...the HNO3 what should not be that fast (although into the range of km/s but below the 2-3 km/s what is weak in comparison of detonating explosives).

PHILOU Zrealone - 7-9-2016 at 17:01

Quote: Originally posted by MineMan

Yah! I am excited to hear your results and updates. 18km/s... even if the real value is 9500m/s I will be excited.

Does anybody have any idea of the VOD of Axt's mixture?

It must be between 6500 and 8000 m/s and more probably between 7000 and 7500 because of its brisance described by Axt.

CH3-NO2 alone already goes to 6300 m/s @ d= 1,14 ...
But here we are denser because of the free HNO3, the H2SO4, NH4NO3 and NH4HSO4.
Also part of the NH4HSO4 produced is a dead weight.

Into the mix one may consider the partial formation of NH2OH (hydroxylamine from CH3-NO2 and acid) whose nitrate has a VOD of 8000 m/s...

PHILOU Zrealone - 7-9-2016 at 17:13

Quote: Originally posted by MineMan

Ok, any reports of experimental VOD or volume of gas produced?? Please keep us updated.

The volume of detonation gases can be calculated from the chemical equations...
10 BN + 6 HNO3 -->5 B2O3 + 3 H2O +8 N2 (11 moles of gases)
8 BN + 3 HClO4 -->4 B2O3 +3 HCl + 4 N2 (7 moles of gases)

The volume of gases will not be exceptional because of the solid/liquid B2O3.

alkynes of trouble - 11-11-2016 at 15:03

Interesting explosive, DPX-26. RDX performance but much less sensitive.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/anie.201608723/ab...

Can somebody provide the paper?

Quote:

The reaction of 3-amino-5-nitro-1,2,4-triazole with nitrous acid produces the corresponding diazonium salt. When the diazonium salt is treated with nitroacetonitrile, a subsequent condensation and cyclization reaction occurres to produced 4-amino-3,7-dinitrotriazolo-[5,1-c][1,2,4] triazine (DPX-26). X-ray crystallographic analysis shows that the DPX-26 has a density of 1.86 g cm−3, while it is calculated to have a heat of formation of 398.3 kJ mol−1. DPX-26 is predicted to approach the explosive performance of RDX but displays significantly better safety properties. Oxidation of DPX-26 using hypofluorous acid produces 4-amino-3,7-dinitrotriazolo-[5,1-c][1,2,4] triazine 4-oxide (DPX-27), which is also predicted to be a high-performance material with enhanced safety properties.

[Edited on 11-11-2016 by alkynes of trouble]

PHILOU Zrealone - 11-11-2016 at 17:51

Quote: Originally posted by alkynes of trouble

Interesting explosive, DPX-26. RDX performance but much less sensitive.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/anie.201608723/ab...

Can somebody provide the paper?

Quote:

[Edited on 11-11-2016 by alkynes of trouble]

There is a place for that into the forum

Reference section: Wanted references, book or articles

PHILOU Zrealone - 15-11-2016 at 14:50

Quote: Originally posted by PHILOU Zrealone

Quote: Originally posted by alkynes of trouble

Interesting explosive, DPX-26. RDX performance but much less sensitive.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/anie.201608723/ab...

Can somebody provide the paper?

Quote:

[Edited on 11-11-2016 by alkynes of trouble]

There is a place for that into the forum

Reference section: Wanted references, book or articles

Now available thanks to Solo into the reference section...
Alkyne of troubles was too lazy to do it

...so I did it

Don't forget to add the ".pdf" at the end to be able to read it (under adobe...or other pdf reader)

active plasticizer

Laboratory of Liptakov - 28-7-2017 at 13:30

With successful was synthesized active plasticizer from hexamine and NH4CLO4. His properties show on same bonding effect as classic plasticizers as is oil and polyisobutylene rubber (PIB). However his oxygen balance is - 86, against classic (PIB), where is - 346. His properties will next researched. Seems, that is non hygroscopic. Basic preparation is of course slightly dangerous. On the "Philou's" testing spoon is insert 0,2g hexamine and 0,2g NH4ClO4 and 3g H2O. By 100C is all dissolve and run evaporate water. Heating is increase to cca 250 - 280 C (no measured). From both compound firstly arises partially heterogenous mixture, which after a few seconds is changed on transparent slightly brown solution. In this point is is necessary heating stopped and "Philou" spoon is insert on water level. After 10 second temperature decrease on 20C and plasticizer is ready to use. If is plasicizer heated over 350 - 400 C, his color changed on black and bubbled. After bubbling material deflagrated with a same effect as ETN, which is heated. Thus very long and fast flame. Very effective. In closure alu foil not show detonation properties. Against ETN. Very interesting is, that by ratio 66% AP and only 33% hexamine, arises sparse material, which making the drip. Which is weird. Should be exactly conversely. In basic ration 1:1 has material properties and color almost same as density the Honey. But smell is, as old the Coyote.
......Dr.... :cool:

MineMan - 31-7-2017 at 13:19

LoL,

How did you come up with this idea?? Interesting.

active plasticizer

Laboratory of Liptakov - 1-8-2017 at 06:19

The plasticizer was discovered during the examination of the mother liquor from the reaction - recrystalisation from copper hexamine perchlorate.
But one test, nothing test. 10 test = 1 test. 100 test can bring relevant results or half of truht. Last attempts show, that for example flour, requires 40% this plastificator, which is too for some applications. But because every gram of this plasticizer content 50 % NH4ClO4, and 50% one from best energetic fuel, is posssible maybe some construction final energetic mixture, with OB - 20, or even near zero. Because is possible adden only oxidizer, AN, or AP and slightly Al, and plastic material is ready to testing. Dr.

[Edited on 2-8-2017 by Laboratory of Liptakov]

Laboratory of Liptakov - 4-8-2017 at 22:59

Next attempts show, that this plasticizer is very hygroscopic if is mixed with some energetics materials. Examination stopped. Dr.

Mr.Greeenix - 21-10-2017 at 05:38

-Ammonium-dinitroguanidine (ADNQ)
-1,7-diamino-1,7-dinitrimino-2,4,6-trinitro-2,4,6-triazaheptane (APX)

Both Materials possess very good detonation parameters:

APX (Vdet = 9540 m·s–1, pC–J = 395kbar, Qv = –5935 kJ·kg–1)
ADNQ (Vdet = 9066 m·s–1, pC–J = 332 kbar, Qv = –5193 kJ·kg–1),

with moderate safety parameters:

APX: IS ≥ 3 J, FS ≥ 80 N and ESD ≥ 0.1 J
ADNQ: IS ≥ 10 J, FS ≥ 252 N and ESD ≥ 0.4 J,

Two very interesting compounds, however preparing dinitroguanidine seems to be a problem i think.

Attachment: (ADNQ) and APX.pdf (905kB)
This file has been downloaded 809 times

PHILOU Zrealone - 22-10-2017 at 07:15

Quote: Originally posted by Mr.Greeenix

-Ammonium-dinitroguanidine (ADNQ)
-1,7-diamino-1,7-dinitrimino-2,4,6-trinitro-2,4,6-triazaheptane (APX)

Both Materials possess very good detonation parameters:

APX (Vdet = 9540 m·s–1, pC–J = 395kbar, Qv = –5935 kJ·kg–1)
ADNQ (Vdet = 9066 m·s–1, pC–J = 332 kbar, Qv = –5193 kJ·kg–1),

with moderate safety parameters:

APX: IS ≥ 3 J, FS ≥ 80 N and ESD ≥ 0.1 J
ADNQ: IS ≥ 10 J, FS ≥ 252 N and ESD ≥ 0.4 J,

Two very interesting compounds, however preparing dinitroguanidine seems to be a problem i think.

Nice information thanks...

Strange that they only think to allow monopotassium salt to enter into reaction and not the dipotassium salt... that way you may get other interesting goodies... like imino-RDX if cyclisation or n-poly-ITNTAH (linear poly-imino-trinitro-triazahexane)
See annexed drawing...

Based onto the density increase effect observed for polymers... one should expect poly-ITNTAH to be denser than APX...but also to display a lower or equal sensitivity to shock...

APX is named by them as 1,7-diamino-1,7-dinitrimino-2,4,6-trinitro-2,4,6-triazaheptane but this could be aswel be named 2,8-diimino-1,3,5,7,9-pentanitro-1,3,5,7,9-pentaazanonane (following me more appropriate) (DIPNPAN)

ClCH2-NNO2-CH2Cl + 2 O2N-NK-C(=NH2(+))-N(+)-NO2 -->
O2N-N(-)-C(=NH2(+))-NNO2-CH2-NNO2-CH2-NNO2-C(=NH2(+))-N(-)-NO2

APX, imino-RDX and n-poly-ITNTAH.jpg - 129kB

new EM on Cu - KClO3 base

Laboratory of Liptakov - 1-3-2018 at 01:37

Some message from research a new energetic material from 16.2.2018
http://sci-hub.tw/https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jacs....

MineMan - 4-3-2018 at 20:48

LoL, What does this mean, have you produced it? my chemistry is not well enough...

Laboratory of Liptakov - 5-3-2018 at 03:15

Haha....not. All news energetics matrials in not from my lab. Preparation is difficult. Only info for someone, for everybody.

kratomiter - 20-3-2018 at 23:24

Recently I tried to make a methanolic solution of hydrazine mixing hydrazine sulfate and calcium hydroxide in methanol, then filtering. But this way it's difficult to get a concentrated solution due to low methanol volume required. My goal is to sensitized NM.

Could dissolving hydrazine sulfate in sodium methoxide solution and the filtering the sodium sulfate work?

Laboratory of Liptakov - 21-3-2018 at 00:26

Your goal is some nitromethane gel...reliable sensitive on No.8 ? Or liquide NM as solution ? On No.8 cap sensitive ?

kratomiter - 21-3-2018 at 12:48

Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov

Your goal is some nitromethane gel...reliable sensitive on No.8 ? Or liquide NM as solution ? On No.8 cap sensitive ?

My goal is a PLX-type liquid exposive, capable of detonation by 0.5 grams MHN. I hope something like 90% NM/10% hydrazine solution in methanol works.
For sensitizing NM, there are cheaper amines like hexamine, I tried but it requires a big booster. I even tried sensitizing NM with sodium nitrite, just for fun, and also failed.

Laboratory of Liptakov - 22-3-2018 at 00:40

You can try this gel. Nitrocellulose (12,4N+) 10%, ( 8 -15) microballoons 2% (1 -
3) aluminium bright type for colors 5%. (5 -10). + NM 80 %. Were tested again and again without fails. From 0,3g ETN.

kratomiter - 23-3-2018 at 12:33

Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov

You can try this gel. Nitrocellulose (12,4N+) 10%, ( 8 -15) microballoons 2% (1 -
3) aluminium bright type for colors 5%. (5 -10). + NM 80 %. Were tested again and again without fails. From 0,3g ETN.

Thank you, very useful!

CHC77

Laboratory of Liptakov - 31-1-2019 at 09:50

New energy material based on tetraamine copper chlorate was discovered. His working name is CHC77. It contains the main propellant, namely [Cu (NH3) 4] (ClO3) 2 + Hexamine + NH4ClO3. The detonation pressure of CHC77 is comparable to CHP, , which is a working mark for copper hexamine perchlorate [Cu (NH3) 4] (ClO4) 2 + hexamine + NH4ClO4. Stability and other CHC77 parameters will be further investigated. CHC77 has a detonation pressure of 25 GPa. If it turns out to be safe to handle, prepare, its advantage lies in the availability of the base precursors, which are NH4NO3 + NaClO3...... :cool:

....LL

MineMan - 6-2-2019 at 11:29

http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Discovery_could_lead_to_mu...

https://web.stanford.edu/group/zheng/pages/research-combusti...

Article does not give much details. Another reference listed the graphene oxide in amounts of 3-20percent, which for a catalyst seems far far too much. Who cares if the AL burns better at 20 percent GO.... because you now have 20 percent less oxidizer.

Does anyone here have GO? Maybe give this a try add 10 percent in standard flash and see what happens? If this makes micron Al act like nano... then it’s huge!!

Herr Haber - 7-2-2019 at 04:54

Onyx Met is preparing an order for me. They have GO.

The only thing I am unsure of is the particle size. The density announced (0,15 to 0,25) doesnt convince me it'll be usable.
Truth is I fear the particles will be bigger than the AL and wont coat anything.

If you have suggestions I can ask them to add 1 gram of GO to my order and give it a try.
I was going to try Zr flash already

MineMan - 9-2-2019 at 00:25

Why Zr flash, you know Zr compositions are herendously sensitive?

Well. Go for it... although my understanding is micron Al already burns completely before 6 expansions. So GO is probably not needed. It makes me confused.

Herr Haber - 9-2-2019 at 15:28

I understand Zr compositions are mostly sensitive to static.

Anyway, no answer so far about the GO particle size and I really doubt I could know if the metal was properly coated or coated at all.
Not much incentive to get a reagent as expensive as gold

MineMan - 11-2-2019 at 00:04

Well. You could grind it between two plates and reduce to nano size....

In the article they hail this as cheaper than Al nano.... huhuh. Far from it! There MUST be SOME catylist out there that can make micron sized fuels (1-5um) act like nano fuels (100nm). PTFE certainly works with boron because the metal fluoride becomes gaseous.

In fact they are starting to coat metal powders in Teflon, which is both obvious plus genius.

I would think a small percentage of nano graphene would make pyrotechnic and explosive compositions less sensitive, as it is a very good conductor and might be able to conduct heat from friction and impact away fast enough?

Anyone with nano graphene want to try adding it to a notoriously sensitive composition??

snooby - 23-4-2019 at 11:27

This is aminoguanidine bicarbonate nickel perchlorate.double salt... first mentioned by tetrazolelover. We all know what it whould do when compressed in a small tube..

Attachment: videocompress-045-20190423_211507.mp4 (3.4MB)
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MineMan - 23-4-2019 at 23:40

Quote: Originally posted by snooby

This is aminoguanidine bicarbonate nickel perchlorate.double salt... first mentioned by tetrazolelover. We all know what it whould do when compressed in a small tube..

Yes. Tetrazolelover is one of the best.. his creativity, inventiveness, and research is astounding. Him and LL have given this comminuty a new life in my opinion. It’s too bad the posters of old like Axt, Rbick, PHILOU and others are not around to witness this. Especially those from the Rouge Science.... Research cannot take place without a reliable detonator. Both have contributed enormously to this. It pains me in someways because now, anyone can jump into this field without extensive research. But it’s just a matter of time untill advanced knowledge creates shortcuts for the lazy, careless and those whom want to harm others. Therefore. They are still pioneers. TL is focused more on exoctic compounds while LL follows Einstein’s rule. Both are necessary I believe.

Laboratory of Liptakov - 24-4-2019 at 01:04

Huh....Thanks, MineMan....You can write quality speeches at international level. Like the United Nations Forum.... :cool:

...LL

snooby - 25-4-2019 at 10:22

Attachment: videocompress-041-20190425_193417.mp4 (7.4MB)
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snooby - 25-4-2019 at 10:26

In the post above hammertest. Later it did detonate, but it took serious blows ( read: destroyed my concrete) before it would detonate.

Later flame test again, its so sensitive that a hot wire could set it off. A spark of flam will sett it off as a quick as nitrocellulose. Sorry for low quality video, I had to decrease the size from 140 mb to 8 mb.

Attachment: videocompress-034-20190425_194129.mp4 (4.8MB)
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Last image, 40 or 50 mg in alu tube (4mm outer diameter). Just fuse inserted, closed with piece of paper... def detonation, that pieec of steel is quite strong, read not bendable with strong hand

[Edited on 25-4-2019 by snooby]

[Edited on 25-4-2019 by snooby]

Screenshot_20190426-010456_WhatsApp.jpg - 557kB

[Edited on 25-4-2019 by snooby]

snooby - 25-4-2019 at 19:40

I have now a gram of 4. My idea is to store it under some wasbenzine, some like white spirit. It this a good idea? Dont think it it was harm it

MineMan - 25-4-2019 at 23:18

Snobby. Although this is a less sensitive primary, it still is a primary. I would recommend doing smaller batches. I see you have 30ml of liquid. Keep it down to 5ml. Sensitivity goes way up with larger quantity. My hammer tests showed that.

Laboratory of Liptakov - 26-4-2019 at 22:17

@snooby ...Steel is 1,5 - 2 mm of thickness estimating. If only 50 mg causes deformation is it full detonation. It seems on good EM. With beauty color. On air only deflagration, next good properties. Maybe is time try on air 100mg and 200 mg. With ear plugs, long heat flame rod and etc.
How to call...?. AGBNP...?:...Amino..Guanidine...Bicarbonate....Nickel...Perchlorate...?... :cool:

....(Mad formula......

)
For example, CHP at 100mg in Alu foil confinement (10 layers) deflagrate only, but at same conditions at 200mg detonated.
Your AGB require next attempts...Any way, Great research, thanks for sharing and videos.... :cool:

...LL

snooby - 27-4-2019 at 13:25

Today i tested with petn, succes. But im still veryyy cautious, nobody have experience with it....

MineMan - 27-4-2019 at 23:06

Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov

@snooby ...Steel is 1,5 - 2 mm of thickness estimating. If only 50 mg causes deformation is it full detonation. It seems on good EM. With beauty color. On air only deflagration, next good properties. Maybe is time try on air 100mg and 200 mg. With ear plugs, long heat flame rod and etc.
How to call...?. AGBNP...?:...Amino..Guanidine...Bicarbonate....Nickel...Perchlorate...?... :cool:

....(Mad formula......

...LL

LL. This is the most potent primary I am aware of outside of tetrazoles...

1mg is deafening when slowly heated with Al. The worse part is preparation is too easy, I wish this primary was reserved for the more skilled only. But. Alas, this is how God made the world.

The peculiar thing is this primary produces a very bright flash upon detonation, can anyone say why?? Almost like acetylene burning in oxygen.

The next step that someone needs to try is adding ammonium perchlorate until OB and then coating the resulting mix with steric acid for reduced sensitivity.

Laboratory of Liptakov - 28-4-2019 at 07:26

God made the world. In the most powerful detonation of all times. To this day, stars explode across the universe. And we, are born dust of these stars, we are disciples of God. Disciples who want to emulate a great master. And God knows it well. But a like any master, also God has difficult exam for us. How to create a safe and stable and not poisonous material, for full detonation of secondary EM. And how to make easy.... :cool:

...LL

snooby - 28-4-2019 at 09:38

mineman: yes when hammertest, the stuff explode with bride flame!

MineMan - 28-4-2019 at 15:52

Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov

God made the world. In the most powerful detonation of all times. To this day, stars explode across the universe. And we, are born dust of these stars, we are disciples of God. Disciples who want to emulate a great master. And God knows it well. But a like any master, also God has difficult exam for us. How to create a safe and stable and not poisonous material, for full detonation of secondary EM. And how to make easy.... :cool:

...LL

That, was beautifull.... wow! I am indeed speechless. Philosophy accurately explaining our ambitions tied to the Creator.

LL, I am afraid my “bro crush” on you just became, bigger.

Have you tried this stuff LL. You will love this primary, I have further ideas to reduce its sensitivity that I am not ready to post. But for micro detonators (2mm maxID) this is the best! The sensitivity is very acceptable. And 3mg can initiate PETN, one needs not worry about safety as much when only 20mg can be used

. But it is so easy to make and easily made in large quantities it’s hard to think of it as a primary. It’s is an amazing site to behold. The water turns green, then blue, then black and then red crystals, the color of vindatinite appear. The trick is making these crystals as small as possible. I suggest using a high surface area cyclinder and shocking with ice salt water. Liquid N would be better of course. Water destroys this product.

Laboratory of Liptakov - 28-4-2019 at 22:57

I am afraid, that I have not all ingredients for synthesis Amino Guanidine Bicarbonate Nickel Perchlorate. AGBNP. Respectively, I am lazy create aminoguanidine from zinc powder and nitroguanidine. I hope that I didn´t write nonsenses....

...LL

snooby - 7-5-2019 at 02:44

Did all again:

Make AgNO3 - convert to AgCO3 - then to AgCLO4.

I putted 5atz solution vert slowley and it worked well. This thing is beast..

This is di silver -5 atz - perchlorate

[Edited on 7-5-2019 by snooby]

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Edit, beware quite sensitve towards hammer melee attack.
Scratching with hammer dit also made it go off, but Im more shocked by imact. Compareble towards LA.

[Edited on 7-5-2019 by snooby]

MineMan - 7-5-2019 at 10:51

Snooby, how does it compare to NiAGKCLO4 sensitivity wise?? Never made silver tetrazole... which is what I think you made...

Microtek - 7-5-2019 at 23:24

MineMan, when you make aminoguanidine nickelperchlorate just keep on stirring the solution magnetically while the product precipitates. This way the (beautiful) large needles do not have time to form and the result is a much more mangageable powder (that is still easy to filter).

snooby - 8-5-2019 at 04:59

No its not silvernitrotetrazolate (made from sodiumnitrotetrazolate).

Its disilver tetrazole perchlorate. Impact sensitivity is compared.to leadazide.

Fricton, hard to get it going. Stay safe

Microtek - 9-5-2019 at 03:51

Isn't it disilveraminotetrazole perchlorate? I made that some time in the past, but it might have been less successful than yours, since it didn't make DDT as fast as what you demonstrated.
Have you observed how it behaves after prolonged storage? Mine changed colour, but is not much less energetic than when fresh.

snooby - 10-5-2019 at 02:16

Microtek,

Previous attempts were less succesfull. This is the first time that the product was WHITE and not beige or grayish. I changed the rate of addition (the silver perchlorate) instead of just pouring two things together, i created a big volture first on the magnetic stirrer and then dropwise putted in the agclo4. This whole new thing compared to other, half succeeded, attempts.

It is deffinatly more sensitive then Nickelguanidinebicarbonateperchlorate, but also more explosive. Just like silvernitrotetrazolate. And indeed this is disilveraminotetrazolateperchlorate. This has some chances as a usable primer. Me, I stopped because of the messy silverperchlorate procedure and lacking product. But when synthesised right, you will get a different product.

It have some colour changes after some days.

[Edited on 10-5-2019 by snooby]

15574835336645393730277448122651.jpg - 3.3MB

Laboratory of Liptakov - 10-5-2019 at 10:30

The crucible with the contents looks like an ashtray used. Beware of random smokers ..! ... :cool:

...LL

snooby - 10-5-2019 at 11:03

Yesss what a shitty chem, 28.5 grams of white AgCLO4

snooby - 12-5-2019 at 07:06

Just amazing powerfull

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[Edited on 12-5-2019 by snooby]

[Edited on 12-5-2019 by snooby]

[Edited on 12-5-2019 by snooby]

[Edited on 12-5-2019 by snooby]

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Since nobody here has any experience with this extremely powerfull stuff im hesitating what to do with it. What do u think, just flush it away?

[Edited on 12-5-2019 by snooby]

Tyneman - 12-5-2019 at 23:16

At least save some of it in a cool dark place and check for decomposition. (weekly?) That would be information helpful for anyone wanting to also make this.
If it's not too sensitive I would like to see penetration tests.

If all else fails, send it to me. :cool:

Microtek - 12-5-2019 at 23:27

I think you should do a series of experiments to determine sensitivities (friction, impact, maybe qualitative static electricity). Also, try storing some of it under different conditions, such as wet with water or ethanol and also dry. Both of these test series should be done at different temperatures, and then test the effectiveness of the material after storage. Obviously do these tests with minimal amounts of material.

MineMan - 13-5-2019 at 00:46

Snooby. Nobody here has made this? I can’t get any of the videos to work. Do they not work on mobile or apple? Snooby AGNiP is very powerful... is this stuff really in a different class??

Microtek - 15-5-2019 at 22:06

I found the sample I prepared some years ago, and it turns out that it does behave much like what Snooby has documented. There is considerable discoloration, but I don't know if that is from residual silver perchlorate/nitrate, or if it is because the silver aminotetrazolateperchlorate is also photosensitive.

I found a paper (Klapötke et al, of course) on the preparation and properties of this double salt, and also of the nitrate. It seems that the perchlorate is roughly as sensitive as lead azide, but the nitrate much less so. If the performance of the nitrate is acceptable, it might be a good amateur primary.

MineMan: It is not that this salt is more powerful than ANP (aminoguanidinium nickelperchlorate), but it undergoes DDT MUCH more readily. ANP will just flash in the open while silver aminotetrazolateperchlorate detonates violently. Personally I prefer ANP. The reduced sensitivity along with the more robust (and colorful) preparation and the fact that it reliably DDTs with the slightest of confinement makes it superior in my estimation (I haven't really encountered a situation where a primary had to be employed as loose powder).

Attachment: Silver_nitrate_and_perchlorate_adducts_of_aminotetrazole.pdf (853kB)
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snooby - 16-5-2019 at 06:39

I am happy I made the silver 5 atz perchlorate stuff. My entire kitchen is black and purple now. But i think the nickel/amg/perchlorate just owns the world. Its better then BNCP (why never talks about this??) And it is just not to sensitive. Im not going to do experiments with stuff that can detonate from a steel spoon, its more sensitive then TATP. I will trow it away it just make me feel uncormtable and i dont think this is worth the risk, sorry

Microtek - 16-5-2019 at 09:48

Quote:

Im not going to do experiments with stuff that can detonate from a steel spoon, its more sensitive then TATP.

You are speaking of disilveraminotetrazolium perchlorate here right? Of course you should follow your instincts if you feel that it is too dangerous. My sample does not appear to be nearly as sensitive as what you describe, more in line with the paper I uploaded. But that would tend to reinforce your objection to the material, since the variability in properties that seem to occur based on small variations in the procedure would make it quite unreliable.

Laboratory of Liptakov - 6-8-2019 at 12:21

Was tested a new energetic mixture. Potassium ascorbate + NaClo4 in stoichiometric ratio on - 1,9 on CO2. Plasticiser water 7%. Arises perfect plastic material, which react on heating from candle and quickly burn. But his detonation properties from 1g ETN is zero. Both compounds has a huge solubility in water. Thats was reason for attempt.... :cool:

...LL

PriyaSahu - 18-9-2019 at 00:44

I went through the article you provided in the answer, I must say the article contains all the important points related to the topic. The article is very useful for everyone. You must go through it once.

Laboratory of Liptakov - 19-9-2019 at 13:47

Pretty a new nitromethane binary composition from 2016. NM + 1% Hexamine... https://patents.google.com/patent/US9506729B2/en ....from No.8 works (apparently)..... :cool:

specialactivitieSK - 19-11-2019 at 19:54

The Foam version looks good. Theoretical how much SLS should be used ?

[Edited on 20-11-2019 by specialactivitieSK]

Atrey - 12-12-2019 at 04:15

For everybody.
To be carefull for ID Laboratory of Liptakov this is ID from Czech server Pyroforum and he is payed secred policeman.
Next on this server are ID Dalca etc.
Now I get permit for my truth (at Czech rep. policemans and soldiers are the criminal)
To be carefull

Herr Haber - 13-12-2019 at 04:24

I'm not sure I understood the message but if LL is an undercover cop he's doing a shit job.
6 years sharing his discoveries and still active. Wouldnt call that a sting operation

MineMan - 13-12-2019 at 22:32

Quote: Originally posted by Atrey

For everybody.
To be carefull for ID Laboratory of Liptakov this is ID from Czech server Pyroforum and he is payed secred policeman.
Next on this server are ID Dalca etc.
Now I get permit for my truth (at Czech rep. policemans and soldiers are the criminal)
To be carefull

Unless his account was taken over. But your message makes me think otherwise. LL is a legend in these parts.

Atrey - 14-12-2019 at 05:21

Soooo funy. Now I have an aluminium hood or cap

)))
Its not from my mind........

Atrey - 14-12-2019 at 05:42

I can show you sentence from Pyroforum.

...(klid Atrey, na nas co mame cepicky z alobalu nemuzou) ----- pls translate this sentence from ID Kerut

For chemist: my last job was 150 tons per year HNO3 for microelectronic at Czech rep. location "Neratovice" fa: Lachner

Now because I writting thruh I am dead.

This is e freedom from Chzech rep.

franklyn - 29-1-2020 at 09:45

Energetic materials derived from heterocycles

* Note this contains many links _
www.chemweb.com/articles/SV10593/0005300006

specialactivitieSK - 9-6-2020 at 04:02

Hello friends. Is this chemical right and possible ?

Pyridine
C5H5N+HCl=C5H6NCl
C5H6NCl+NH4ClO4=C5H6ClNO4+NH4Cl

Laboratory of Liptakov - 31-10-2020 at 01:50

Dear Sirs,
use common sense. What kind of police officer would by he invent and publish new and easy-to-manufacture detonators and other energy materials? This is exactly the opposite of what he should do. The policeman only collects data. Policeman is only asking, not provide info. He don´t any research. And it never he shows how to easy make some energetic material. And new methods of making something. Test results and so on. Next thing. I leaved field of energetic material before 2,5 years. Shortly, is it not my hobby for ever.
A lot was developed, tryied. And I gived of world a new and pretty reliable EM, a like primary substance. And even a like plastic EM. Tetraamine copper perchlorate - hexamine clathrate. Shortly, CHP at descriptions. And even methode, how to all maked from kitchen salt. For such a service, such a police officer would have to be beated by rolled newspaper as dog by his colleagues. Sorry for my weak English.
Dr. Liptakov

Herr Haber - 31-10-2020 at 03:10

LL, I think most people believed you would have gotten into some kind of trouble.
Glad its not the case.

Laboratory of Liptakov - 31-10-2020 at 05:35

Yes. If I continued, I would get in trouble... :cool:

Vomaturge - 31-10-2020 at 06:14

So glad you're okay. I thought you were jailed or had an accident or something. Should have known you were too smart for that

Laboratory of Liptakov - 31-10-2020 at 12:30

Haha...

..Thanks for your interest. All 20 fingers on own place...2 eyes in Full HD 4K works...

.... Also sensitivity of eardrums is high. Which I am pretty surprised...

Hey Buddy - 8-1-2021 at 11:07

Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov

Dear Sirs,
use common sense. What kind of police officer would by he invent and publish new and easy-to-manufacture detonators and other energy materials? This is exactly the opposite of what he should do. The policeman only collects data. Policeman is only asking, not provide info. He don´t any research. And it never he shows how to easy make some energetic material. And new methods of making something. Test results and so on. Next thing. I leaved field of energetic material before 2,5 years. Shortly, is it not my hobby for ever.
A lot was developed, tryied. And I gived of world a new and pretty reliable EM, a like primary substance.

If LL is secret police, he is the model that all secet police should aspire to be. We need more secret police like this man.

roXefeller - 8-1-2021 at 16:49

For he's a jolly good fellow....

DBX can you write up the BNCP on this thread?

DBX Labs - 8-1-2021 at 20:37

Oh for the BNCP synthesis? Damn that’s gonna be lengthy. I’ll get to that tomorrow morning on its own thread.
On an unrelated topic, I have synthesized Aminonitroguanidinium Nitrotetrazolate 2-N Oxide as far as I can tell. I will have to do some testing tomorrow.
I’ve also made the bis-Aminonitroguanidinocopper ii nitrate, perfect OB primary and successfully initiated it using AgNTZ. 50 mg made a sizable hole in a Al can. Unfortunately the complex is very sensitive to shock and friction, while only deflagrating on heating. Does have a nice blue color though.

I have to say thanks to you guys for not overlooking my posts just because I only got one of these stars next to my username.

densest - 15-3-2021 at 13:45

Research patents by a Dr. Hiskey and his students. Long ago (10 years?) i read an article giving a practical synthesis of (IIRC) N6 and asserting practical syntheses of things like CH2Nx where n is large maybe 10 or more. The structure crawled over half a page of Ns. Lots and lots of HCN involved. Many/most had a carbon or two. Yes, this is pretty vague.

dettoo456 - 17-9-2021 at 09:26

I’ve been trying to do some facile research and hopefully syntheses in the future of heptazine (C6N7) derivatives and their energetic counterparts. They have high N by mass but are far too stable on their own. Triazido-heptazine has been made but I couldn’t find much info on it; it was apparently fairly sensitive and not very powerful due to low OB%. Incorporating azoles directly into the rings of heptazine could have some worth as it would supply density and even more N%

but such direct ring bridging of triazines(let alone heptazine structures) seems difficult. Such a compound with two or even 3 triazoles linked directly to the heptazine would be ungodly but hopefully powerful. A theoretical compound with no citing anywhere I want to try is tris(trinitromethyl)-heptazine which has an OB% of 0 and hopefully high density but could struggle from sensitivity or even half-life because of the extreme e- with drawing of the nitroform groups even for a resonant ring. Sorry for the long post, just though it would be interesting and hopefully not too complicated synth. I can update with papers if need be

KClO3 a like primary

Laboratory of Liptakov - 13-10-2021 at 10:37

KClO3 70 parts + potassium ascorbate 30 parts + Fe2O3 4 parts can detonate ETN in solid metal cavity 6 mm. For simplicity, this mixture was named the Iron Viper. Its rate of combustion in the air is more like an explosion than a rapid combustion. It is not an invention, as this mixture may be unstable during a several weeks. Especially with moisture content. The addition of 2% aluminum increases the reliability of the DDT transition. Of the 4 attempts, 4 attempts were successful. Density of all pressed compounds 1,2g /cc, grain 1 mm. Central wire (bridge) ignitor 16V / 20A. Iron Viper can be sensitive on friction And for other stimuli. It is more of an interest than an practical useful information. Iron Viper is highly hygroscopic, almost a like AN.

[Edited on 14-10-2021 by Laboratory of Liptakov]

katyushaslab - 14-10-2021 at 11:44

interesting!

> KClO3 70 parts + potassium ascorbate 30 parts + Fe2O3 4 parts

This sounds a lot like a modified whistle mix.

Benzoate salts mixed with chlorates or perchlorates will make for a decent whistle mix/propellant in small pyrotechnics when well pressed, or an extremely potent explosive otherwise. I suspect the ascorbate salt acts the same as the benzoate salts.

The addition of iron oxide would likely act as a catalyst to increase burn rate.

Similar compositions would be ones involving potassium nitrate and ascorbic acid (optionally with iron oxide), referred to as "yellow" or "crimson" powder or whatnot.

With both whistle mix and the crimson/yellow powder mixes, heating them until they melt tends to result in a fairly violent explosion more akin to a detonation than simple deflagration.

Laboratory of Liptakov - 14-10-2021 at 13:38

Is it interesting. But never you try KClO3 + ascorbic acid. Arises chlorine, mixture change color to green and during a few minute spontaneous explode. With Potassium ascorbate not. Burning is higher speed than with sodium ascorbate. And of course, catalyseurs can be CuO or Fe2O3 or Alu powder or their combination. Any way, is it mad mixture at all... :cool:

katyushaslab - 15-10-2021 at 02:02

Wait, are you saying KClO3 when mixed with ascorbic acid will spontaneously ignite? Under what conditions? I might have to try this on a very, very small scale, just to see.

Laboratory of Liptakov - 17-10-2021 at 07:27

Yes, the ball of weight 50g with 1- 3% H2O create partially plastic material. Is possible create ball. Ball immediately runned self-heating process and after 5 - 15 minute ball explode. Mad attempt. Don´t try at home....

woelen - 17-10-2021 at 12:49

An amount of 50 grams is not small. It is insanely large and may blow off hand or even larger parts of your body! Indeed, do not try it on that scale.

What you can try is mixing a few hundreds of milligrams of very finely powdered dry KClO3 with a similar amount of very finely powdered dry ascorbic acid. Mix the two chemicals carefully (e.g. diapering on a piece of paper) and then make a little heap on a concrete tile. Then add a very small drop of water and wait. After a while the mix will fizzle and bubble and it may inflame, but it does not do so always.

If you replace the solid KClO3 by solid NaClO2 (not NaClO3) then there is a bigger chance of spontaneous ignition.

This kind of stuff is nice for a little demo, impressing young kids, but it has no practical application at all, and it NEVER should be scaled up!

[Edited on 17-10-21 by woelen]

Tsjerk - 18-10-2021 at 06:58

Chlorate goes bad with any acid, even to the extend you shouldn't combine sulfur and chlorate. Impure sulfur will contain a bit of sulfurous acid, which is enough to make the mixture ignite. Very pure sulfur does not pose a threat, but recrystallization of sulfur from for example toluene is not enough to get rid of the acid, as it is included in the crystals.

Microtek - 25-10-2021 at 06:14

During a bout of research, I stumbled on this paper by Klapötke:

Urazine Based Energetics

I mainly find compound number 10 of interest. It is the perchlorate salt of urazine and has an experimental density of 2.12 g/cc, a calculated VOD of 9800 m/s and Pcj of 460 Kbar.
The urazine is made by essentially refluxing carbohydrazide with aqueous HCl, and the urazine is then simply added to perchloric acid to produce the salt.

So, does anyone have a good way to obtain carbohydrazide or urazine?

[Edited on 25-10-2021 by Microtek]

katyushaslab - 27-10-2021 at 01:36

Carbohydrazide is supposedly prepared from hydrazine hydrate and urea, according to Ullmann's [0]. The references at Chemicalbook [1] and Kurzer [2] may also be of some use? There is also a patent, EP0103400B1 [3].

If it can be prepared from urea, the whole thing could be done relatively over-the-counter?

[0]: https://sci-hub.se/10.1002/14356007.a13_177
[1]: https://www.chemicalbook.com/Article/Synthesis-of-carbohydra...
[2]: https://sci-hub.se/10.1021/cr60263a004
[3]; https://patents.google.com/patent/EP0103400B1/en

Fulmen - 27-10-2021 at 06:59

Interesting. Since hydrazine = urea + hypochlorite and carbohydrazide = hydrazine + urea it might be possible with a one-pot reaction that only uses hydrazine as a intermediate. I think I have a kilo of barium perchlorate somewhere, so perchloric acid shouldn't be too hard to make.

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