wodka-brewing

How would heating affect quality, most people brew together with yeast.. though I'm not an experienced brewer..

After giving it like 50*C and then letting it stand for some day it'll become clear. I guess that yeast precipitates when it dies, so try to kill em in some other way.. that wouldn't be toxic to a human.. like rising or lowering pH...

Feed it more.

Yeast issues.

BASF, i struggle to comprend your problem.
I realise you have a problem(obviously) but you shouldnt becasue fermentation is usually a straight-forward process.
For me to understand better, I will require some more information
What kind of yeast are you using?
What type of sugar are you using and how much did/do you add?
How much water did you add to the mix?
You say your next step is to distill for the usual 35-50%?! This is terrible, are you using scientific equipment or have you a traditonal pot still or what? These are very ordinary figures, either your distilling method is ineffective and/or your fermentation is letting you down and only producing a limited amount of ethanol!
Btw, i have found that distilling spent yeast residue can add a unique flavour to neutral spirit, especially if you plan to flavour using commercial essence. try it someday, maybe even tomorrow because i suggest you start over with a new batch of yeast because i think you can do better
To get back on track and to answer your questions directly, my opinion is that you are either:
(a) Mixing your ingredients in the wrong ratios.
(b) using the wrong type of yeast for your climatic conditions.
(c) Not thoroughly mixing your yeast prior to fermentation, and/or you are not adding your yeast to a pre-warmed mixture of sugar/water..this affects EtOH production!!
(d) Adding too much yeast or too little sugar, this relates to ratios.
I hope i didnt seem too abrasive with this post, i really do wish you luck with your endeavours. with my help, you will have high yields of 80%abv spirit

Why bother to remove the yeast? It won't distill.
35 to 50% is not terible, it's about the range you get for Vodka. There are more than a few hints that this stuff is for drinking and getting above 50% is a waste of time for that.
I'm told that running the product through charcoal does wonders for the flavour

EtOH

As far am i'm concerned, distilling spirit over 50%abv is not a waste of time at all.
The ethanol that trickles out of my condensor ranges from 70-85%abv, of course i do not consume the alcohol as is!!
A simple mathematic equation and you can dilute the ethanol to any desired concentration. Therefore, higher percentages just results in larger volume of 35-50%abv spirits!
For polishing ethanol destined for use in neutral spirits, activated carbon performs the best. However, it addds no flavour as its role is to remove impurities and to render the ethanol 'neutral', ready for flavouring.
Charcoal is lovely for flavouring whisky and darker siprits...mmmm

First at all: Thanks to the brewing camp

@Prince_Lucifer:

1)I used turbo yeast for wodka-brewing:
http://turbo-yeast.com/turbo_pure_48.html

2)I used the proposed ratios on a 10L batch and followed the notes on temperature and the like.-So i think no grave errors here, at least.

I noticed then that fermentation seemed to proceed much too slowly...after 5 days @19-21 deg C (this is said to be the ideal brewing temperature for this kind of yeast) only 5% EtOH or so and still very sweet. - And yes, the solution of sugar was prewarmed(40-50deg C).

Lateron i noticed that the cover of my bucket was not completely airtight(that was the reason there were no bubbles in the U-pipe). - Although there was no smell of vinegar, i don´t know how much this also affects the formation of EtOH.

I did a comparative 30ml-batch in a measuring cylinder, with oil on the cover for air-exclusion, and it fermented as it should, with the 18% it should have had.
But similarly to the bigger batch, the yeast did not sink, not even after a week!
(milky liquid)

-So i think possibly there is at least a slight difference in beer-yeast and turbo-yeast.

try aluminium sulfate, about 0,5-1,0g/L.
let it stand for about a day. majority of yeast should precipitate.
(of course, you'll take some probe as culture for next brewing, Al3+ isn't really something good for the yeast

[Edited on 17-5-2004 by FritzHaber]

Does anybody know where i could get glucose-syrup(rather than hydrolizing starch with HCl i would just like to buy it)....i suppose this could be cheaper than always using crystallized sugar.
I hear that coca cola for instance uses glucose-syrup as cheap sweetener(?).

I have used a special kind of yeast...killer yeast for porto wine...it can go as high as 18% alcohol what means than for 10 liters fermented juice one can get 2 litters 90-96% alcohol.


Then it is worth to distillate.

About the yeast decantation usually one use bentonite clay...this is used for clarification of fermented juices.
Al(OH)3 is also good.

The main problem with yeast is that it floats because of the CO2 bubbles...
so you have various alternatives:

-To do nothing about it and simply do the distillation in a large enough container sothat it can foam and boil without too much troubles of going over the distillation settup.Usually one will to make a comfortable distillation and get as much control over it as he wants...fill the recipient with 1/2 to 2/3 fermented juice, not more...the critical step is the first 1/2 hours...but you have to stay arround; after an half hour, all the CO2 is away, the enzymes desactivated and refluxing enriched alcohol/water drops from the distillation collumn that will kill the foam.
One could use as sudds depressant silicone anti-sudds or more conveniently a natural oil like almond, corn,olive oil.

-Filtration through a cotton tissue (like socks - yeah it sucks ) it has worked nicely for me.

-The use of ultrasounds generator inside the batch will implo/explode yeast cells and so they will sink...foam might go up since the enzymes that are in the cell is set free in the surrounding.
Bubbles of CO2 will go out and foam will be killed by utrasonic waves.
--> bentonite or Al(OH)3 to go faster on decantation. Or filtration.


Final info:
For your next uses of fermentators, use alginate balls...you make a 1-2% sodium alginate solution in temperated and aerated tap water.Then gently admix 2% milk and 3% suggar with yeast at 25°C. Allow to rest then mix again by incorporating air in it.
Prepare a 1% CaCl2 solution at 25°C...the allow teh first batch to fall dropwise into the CaCl2 batch...upon contact Ca alginate gel forms imediately and you get gel dropsize balls full of activated yeast....No without too much delay introduce those balls inside the juice to be fermentated at the desired temperature and without air.
Once fermentation is done simply filtrate the balls and get the juice.Balls can be used inside the next batch after reactivation inside aerated/milk/suggar/temperated water.Those balls are reusable 3-5 times.

Last option is the continuous like process...yeast is grown into a porous inert media with air, physiological serum/suggar/milk...this porous media is then introduced in a tube with a filter at one end.You then get a flow of juice at one end at such a rate that the residence time in the reaction tube is >24 hours...fermentation occurs in the tube while the fluid goes by...oxygen gets very fast depleted and fermentation goes on..the front yeast evolves and is in favourable conditions to give activated offsprings that flows further.
Then you have filtration and fermentation at the same time
This process is used for some pils beer of low alcoholic %...but it has the advantage of being continuous and so continuous distillation setup can be introduced.

Man, you could at least DILUTE it!

Haha! I love the taste and smell of really neutral undiluted spirits. Just in small quantities. You are more deserving of your name than I would ever have imagined axehandle bitrex

maxke:
I don't know how much you know about chemistry, so don't be offended if I sound condescending.

Most sugars can be digested by yeasts, including dextrose, hydrolyzed starch , regular day to day table sugar, etc.
At a more chemical level, I think that pretty much all types of sugars (mono, di and poly-saccharides) can be metabolized (both the Aldoses and Ketoses of each of these groups), along with the Sugar alcohol.

I'm not too sure about sugar acids (gluconic acid) and amino sugars. I believe an excess in amines is bad for fermentation (just as a complete lack of any will result in no ferment (e.g. fibrin, egg yolk (people have been known to spit into their brew! ) etc.)). Certain mutant strains have been documented that digest (but probably not ferment) lipids, or so I hear.

Generally, however, industrial alcohol is made from corn... stuff. You could either hydrolyze the corn starch from your corn plantation, or just buy "High Fructose Corn Syrup", which is probably easier (you know, this division of labor thing! wonderful idea)

I believe also that hydrolysis is the function that 'Koji' (a mould culture introduced to the cooked rice prior to fermentation) performs on rice for the fermentation of rice-stuff to sake.

I know this post is badly written, I’m tired.
I know it probably doesn't belong here either.
But you can bite me.

- Ramiel

ps. The logical song! the birds, watching me! aarg.

Tired so am I arround 2 am in front of my PC in the dark, laying on my bed...less convenient than at work to type my texts....that's the main reasons I make so much typos

Anyway, yes Axehandle the burning feeling comes mostly from the other components that are designed to avoid people like you to drink cheap alcohol .
No just kidding...but I have had my lot of pure 90-96% ethanol since I always taste the distillat to have a feeling of its concentration and aroms...first fraction is often very bad taste and burning of taste (it contains aldehyds, cetons,and traces of methanol...) then you have the ethanol good taste (72-89°C)...You can drink it without troubles as compared to J&B or Walker Johnny because it has almost no taste...the moderate burning taste is only at the first swallowing...but you have to keep it a little in the mouth to feel all the aroms...I personnally did various fruits fermentation and I'm quite proud of my banana-passion-peach-mirabelle elixir....everybody that has tasted it say hey it is fruity...and indeed drinking it pure isn't a bad experience at all people ask for more...I can drink at ease 25 cl of the stuff...and it is 100% of what passes on second distillation at 75°C.

Fermentation of other stuffs yeah but you have to know what microorganism and under what conditions since it can give completely different results following the type of stress you induce on the environement of those tiny microorganisms...you are their god ...fermentation has been used in some chemical synthesis...
For example you can get D/L separation because bacterias only treat one of the forms.
Even petrol oil, polynitroaromatic explosive have their predators...those are used in bioremediation steps for ground/soil or water...

If it is good taste, doesn't mean it is good for health...so don't abuse.

I've tried that too, diluting it only makes it burn slightly less, it still tastes just as bad and you have to drink more....

I think that I, purely hypothetically since it's very illegal, am going to build a new still. If I have 3 batches of 30litres each fermenting in series and being fed to 2 or 3 Fantastic Still (r) devices, I should get about 20 litres of 98% alcohol/week. Now, that will barely suffice for my consumtion, so I'll probably have to use 4 or 5 fermenting tanks, and 4 passive stills...

Still, the industrial ethanol is lovely, just look how the artistically designed exclusive PE plastic bottle makes you CRAVE a sip...:


[Edited on 2004-5-27 by axehandle]

No thank you, axehandle, that reminds me of my sulfuric acid bottle, yummy . Since we are talking about various alcohol related things: has anyone ever taken tea bags and coffee tea bag things and used that to flavor your brew? I did that the other night and could taste the burning, but I did notice it was still a relatively high content alcohol, since I later was falling all over the place.


Oh and does the start new topic and the reply button have to be that close? I almost started two new topics trying to get this post in here lol.

Hasselt Koffie is a liquor made with coffee and it taste good but I guess it is only a strong coffee syrup enriched by freezing of water and mixed with alcool.

Although I have tasted a Belgian speciality made with lemon thee that was not bad at all.

In the past some old beers were "parfumated" with special thee and herbs/spices that gave resistance to microorganism but also specific taste.

Negrita Cacao Rhum is also a special kind of alcool/chocolate mix.


But all those are eudipian complex coming back ... with mother Liquor ...


[eudipian]x[complex]y.z[Mother LIQUOR]

Ohh suggar I LUV U

******************************
Not to annoy you Axehandle but it is hard to get 20 L ethanol from 30*3L in one week....because:
1°) Your batches must have the time to fermentate (and one week is a good delay to get a "good" yield based on the suggar involved.)
2°)If you don't use porto yeast wich can stay alive until 18% alcohol; then most likely your alcohol % will be between 3 and 12%...and so no mather the way you work it it is difficult to get that much alcohol 98% from this.
3°)To get the highest yield, you need to push distillation and collect all what distills between 72 and 95°C then your exhausted mother liquor will be almost free of alcohol...but your distillated alcohol must be rectified and enriched because it will hold at least 40% water and display a bad taste due to queue distillation products and head...wich must be separated....then and only then you get your final 96% alcohol (98 is only reached with a very long distillation collumn setup or by a further distillation.
4°)If you push distillation to fast then you will get more likely bad burned taste and a lot more water...you distillation setup might also overflow.
5°)Cooling must follow the flow of hot 78°C alcohol; and believe me it uses a lot of tap water to get your alcohol well below 60°C (ideal is at 20°C or less).Ice is a solution but you will need a lot so preparation will take time.
6°)Heating 90L of water from 0 to refluxing takes time especially if you can't overburn it.
7°)Distillation takes time depending on the effective section of your distillation collumn, the amount of theorical plateau (lenght) (the longer the slowest but the best the separation).
To give you an idea:
For me to distill 50L with 10L flasks it took 4 days and a final day for purification (excluded fermentation (2 weeks) thus)....with a 60L beertank (inox) I could do it a little faster since I had no manipulations and transvasements to do-one shot distillation was achieved in two days and an extra day for purification...

Thus what you plan is physically and chemically impossible and not to say...SAFETY INADVISABLE...
Distillation gave a lot of ethanol vapours and it is a work of constant attention...to regulate temperature, reflux, cooling, changing receiving flasks...TASTING ...and so after a few days without sleep...alcohol smell and ingested helping....with all the burned gases...SLEepy fellow may awake with a FIRE OR BOOM .

I was speaking of experience of course...and this forum is also a mather of sharing experience...

So no problemo.

But stil to have 20 L pilot plant for ethanol is a good idea...here in Belgium drinkable alcool is 900% taxes...And even the simple personnal distillation is lucrative since you spear at least 100€/$ a year

Yeah so 25€ or 25$ per L while it only cost 2.5 without taxes in the supermarket of the european comissionners....those damned guys earn 3000 to 5000 €/$ per month and pay the alcohol cheaper than us...this might explain things move quite slowly inthere .

Anyway it is not really a good idea to put "fake" or "joke project" in serious treads...whimsy is there for that .And many people write or say "I have dreamed...." or "Purely therically..." but actually do....yes I know shhhhhhtttttt it's a secret....FBI,MI6, Interpol,CIA,KGB,Men In Black... are watching.....

If you was to live here you would spare almost 200*55 = 11000 $ at a rate of 8L/week

Bragging.

Using:

• the excellent document "The Spiral Still.pdf" (can be found in the axehandle/ directory on the FTP)
  
• a 30 liter PP fermenting bucket
  
• a huge sheet of insulating foam plastic
  
• 5 meters of 10x0.8mm copper tubing
  
• some metal cable fittings
  
• the scavenged heating element from a water boiler
  
• a thyristor based 0-15A power controller
  
• some cable
  
• some PVC hose
  
• some hose clamps
  
• a soldering iron
  
• a digital oven thermometer w/ probe
  

I've made <b>this</b>, and it WORKS:

[Edited on 2004-10-14 by axehandle]

Costs

Axehandle, that's nearly $48 in U.S. currency for a litre of vodka ! No wonder you're making
your own hooch ! We pay $8 - 10 a litre here ! And I thought the U.S. government was
greedy on their booze tax ! BTW, my still is a Destilabs stainless steel still, and you
guessed it - made in Sweden ! In your currency, based on average exchange rate,
that still cost me 1652 SEK, and well worth it ! An excellent example of a Swedish import !
I modified it by replacing the broken glass tubing in the reflux column with 6mm glass
beads. It puts out 190 proof easily as long as I keep the temperature in the reflux
column below 79 C. The thermometer that goes into the top of the reflux column is not
shown. I also modified the water flow through the condenser and reflux column for efficiency.

LONG LIVE SWEDEN !


Picture enclosed:

Follow-up

Hmm, well, yes, hehe --- a stainless machine would obviously be much better but is out of the question for me for 2 reasons: Firstly, I don't know anyone with a TIG welder; and secondly, the water cooling would be audible at nights due to noise in the plumbing system, and I don't really fancy the idea of narrow-minded neighbours alerting the authorities to my... activities...

So for now, I'll settle for my air cooled system. The only real drawback is that it takes lots of time to distill a batch, air cooling really limits the power you can put through... still, approximately 2.25 liters of pure ethanol in 48 hours ain't bad.

I really love my plastic still. Those high-quality metal waterproof cable fitting are holding up much better than I thought they would. I'm attaching a picture of some of them where they're attached through the lid. To the right you can see one of the two leads to the immersion heater, inside a transparent PVC hose. I originally planned on using two immersion heaters but scrapped the idea, hence the extra cable fitting in the middle sealed with a wooden plug (there's another identical one outside the picture). At the bottom left you can see the digital thermometer probe going through that small cable fitting, and at the top left is where the copper cooling spiral enters the vessel.

Lallemand