Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Information on rare Opiate Analogues?

50cent21 - 24-8-2012 at 22:06

Hi, I would like to know more about 2 specific opiate agonists...

Acetyl Fentanyl
(N-Phenyl-N-[1-(2-phenylethyl)-4-piperidinyl]acetamide)
CAS# 3258-84-2

and

2,6-dimethyl piperazine

I'm hoping someone can offer their knowledge about things like potency and duration of action (e.g. 10x potency of morphine, 6-7 hours duration). I would like to do some "research" on these chemicals that I have access to but I have not been able to find information on them... the only thing I know is that these are 2 active opiates (they will act as analgesics and give euphoria)...please help, chemists, geniuses, etc.!!

Yo-Yo - 26-8-2012 at 21:38

According to Drugs acting on the central nervous systemD. E. Hathway and C. Rhodes Copyright Year:1981 ISBN: 978-1-84755-609-7

Acetyl fentanyl is 5-10x the potency of morphine and has similar duration to fentanyl.

Unsubstituted 2,6-dimethyl piperazine has no pharmacological action as far as I know. However, a whole range of substituted analogues exists.

zed - 22-9-2012 at 13:04

Thus, Acetyl-Fentanyl isn't especially dangerous to handle. Whereas handling Fentanyl itself, might require the use of a glove box. It is much more potent.

chemrox - 1-10-2012 at 10:29

!! Fentanyl citrate can be handled in the lab without resorting to glove boxes. The HCl would even by safer as it has low aq solutbility. I learned these facts by asking a lab that makes it under license and by looking at LD 50 and KOc. One simply has to be careful. (I handle As salts without the glove box too.) Also, without appropriate licensing there aren't too many countries where you could make it, even on a research basis without onerous licensing and record keeping requirements. The regulators might be a lot more hazardous than the material. There's a related cmpd that can be obtained from subbing aniline with o-toluidine in similar procedures. It has shorter duration, more dopamine activity and is of about 1/25 the the strength. Again, friends in specialty labs...On a similar note, I have been led to understand that one could make the morphine dipropionyl cmpd as cheaply and more safely than the diacetyl (heroin). So why isn't it made? I haven't the first clue except that inertia rules the trade. A good thing perhaps? I believe the black tar heroin has deterred a lot of potential addicts from going down that hole.

zed - 3-10-2012 at 12:35

On the question of "euphoria"...You must mean euphoria for some. Personally, I feel really good most of the time. Opiates DO NOT generally make me feel euphoric.

They give some folks a sense of euphoria. They give some folks a sense of anxiety. And, they give some folks (especially the elderly) terrifying hallucinations.

DMTiGGer - 5-11-2012 at 07:44

Acetyl Fentanyl is still pretty strong so not something you would want to play around with if your new to chemistry. It's pretty big in china at the moment, the only labs that make it are there at the moment, it's not used clinically anywhere as far as I know. Fentanyl is still far cheaper and more potent to make it viable for pharmaceutical companies.

Also make sure you have acetylfentanyl and not one of the alpha-methyl/3-methyl or beta-hydroxy analogues on your hands, because if you do you're asking for a trip to a+e, or an early grave.

chemrox - 29-12-2012 at 16:35

@Zed, I don't recall saying euphoria but in any case euphoria is different from "feeling good.." If you are saying you can't experience euphoria I have to respond it seems a great pity. If I discovered a mountain wetland at 11,000 feet by coming up on an Elk enjoying it and I might feel pretty euphoric. @dmt-where to begin? You're from the UK, you have no excuse for poor grammar. Second where did you get the idea that acetyl fentanyl is more costly to make? Pharma companies don't charge by the strength like dope dealers do. The intermediates are all the same up to the final ester formation where the propionyl ester makes it fentanyl. Cost differences are more favorable to acetyl. Why would some one have one of the other isomers and not know it? Their syntheses follow considerably different pathways. And FYI Sufentanyl is stronger but safer. It was not methyl-fentanyl but Sufentanyl that was used by Russian gangsters to knock out the audience in a movie theater. Nobody was killed... pretty amazing. Maybe the reason the Chinese lab makes acetyl is they're an exporter of actyl chloride or acetic anhydride. More likely the stuff is legal there.

Sedit - 29-12-2012 at 19:07

Please provide a reference for the Russian incident proving that no one was killed because I was under the impression that there where a couple civilian casualties.

Biotechnic - 31-12-2012 at 06:30

Quote: Originally posted by zed  
On the question of "euphoria"...You must mean euphoria for some. Personally, I feel really good most of the time. Opiates DO NOT generally make me feel euphoric.

They give some folks a sense of euphoria. They give some folks a sense of anxiety. And, they give some folks (especially the elderly) terrifying hallucinations.


Zed I say to you, THANK YOU.. I give a quick example of what your saying. a Hypothetical..

Your on a semi synthetic pain medicine say Beupronorphine, you have a long qt go into severe arrythmia and nearly die. EKG shows the long qt so they test you. You have long qt syndrome (WHICH WE KNOW JACK ABOUT BTW ), therefore Beuprenorphine is not advisable as it can KIILL you instantly.

A doctor says here is some morphine so u got tolerance, your used to a potent opiate analgesic. He wants u to call the nurse if you feel any weirdness. Why? because there is no telling what the medicine will do to you even something that is widely received without problem from old to young if dosage is correct such as morphine. I don't mean regular side effects, your brain may have trauma you don't know about a minor dose could throw you Mr i have high tolerance to opiates into hallucinations that you wouldn't wish on your worse enemy. Keep that in mind when dealing with the newer discovered or less known older compounds. You switch from one alkaloid to another you have no idea what its gonna do, Do not go by what you perceive as euphoria, don't shoot for that feeling and try the other compounds slow. remember a lot don't even have well known studied bio availability on them, so what do you think they know about hepatic, neurological, muscle, psychological effects. Id tread carefully my friend, there used to be a med in the 70's given for pain, was made illegal now its a prescription again but not for pain, its given to cancer patients and further radiation treatment its radiation in a pill causes malformations. And as much as people like to think it has Chemistry including Pharmaceutical chemistry have not made as big of leaps as believed technology has leaped allowing biotechnology to leap but what leaps in biotechnology is not the same as a leap in a medication.

That was a little long winded but i take that shit pretty serious, and i take pain med due to my back C2 meds. People are ruining their kidneys and liver left and right on the heavy studied ones. Euphoria (to synonymous with drowsy body high) everyone's version is different just like if we both stare at the same thing we do not see it exactly the same. They are ALL Psychotropic, they are all Psychedelic and what u get messing with it be very cautious when you give to others.

Mildronate - 31-12-2012 at 16:31

Anbody know what is Persia white i know abou china white its fentanyl?

SM2 - 25-2-2013 at 14:36

My Ant Eater knows of many colleagues who, apparently, have little to np rxn. to prototype. Then on the other hand, sweet ant eater knows of quite a few patients (especially those getting up there in age), where morphine seems to behave mostly as a heavy trank. We're talking Thorazine, Placidyl, whatever. Also seems to have a weird hallucinatory effect not at all dissimilar to too much anti-histamines, or night shade alkaloid trippingl Not a good trip. Not euphoric. Strange stuff.

Yes, Aunt Eatough has also heard of the very opposite thing too! It just goes to show.