Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Suspicious company

Suspicious company

Pages: 1 2

Limpet Chicken - 9-6-2004 at 17:31

Hi, I'm new here, and don't know if it is alright to post this, but has anybody ordered from www.chemicalsman.com
It's a UK company, the prices don't seem too bad, the selection of chemicals seems solely based on pyrotechnics, this site seems too good to be true.

I would like to hear off anybody that has had dealings with this company as it seems a little too good to be true.

chemoleo - 9-6-2004 at 17:39

Hmm, it looks dodgy, and the site isn't well-made. I wonder how long it will last...
The labels on the bottles look suspiciously like those from Timstar bottles, plus prices aren't exactly good.
Maybe try it out with something innocuous, and small amounts.

Limpet Chicken - 9-6-2004 at 17:52

I'm pretty new to chemistry, What do you reckon would draw the least attention?
also, i've never ordered chemicals off the net before, who are/were timstar bottles? i can't find any real reference to them on the net.

The_Davster - 9-6-2004 at 18:51

You could order something really innocuous like NaCl, K2SO4/Na2SO4 or other simple ones like this that dont really have illict uses. Try to stay away from things like drug precursors, powefull oxidizers, powdered metals on your first order from such an unwell known supplier.

Limpet Chicken - 9-6-2004 at 19:19

Have a look at their (crappy) website, they don't seem to HAVE anything even remotely innocent, I suppose if I don't hear any bad experiences from other members, I might take the risk of ordering some magnesium ribbon or turnings, as far as I know there isn't too much suspicion attatched to magnesium, I'm pretty much certain I can't be busted for it anyway

kryss - 10-6-2004 at 12:43

I would have thought theyre probably opportunistic - dont seem to know the difference between KCl and KClO3 , payment only by paypal. Nothing theyre selling is controlled - just hard to get if your buying in small quantities. And naturally theyre only selling stuff there would be a high demand on - with a high margin.

Don't forget in the UK the authorities dont run sugar traps - we call it entrapment! It can all be bought on ebay anyway. Remember that its not 500g quantities thats sus - it takes a van full of AN/diesel that more worrying.

Also I never heard of Pot. Persulphate being using in pyro comps.

vulture - 10-6-2004 at 13:27

Quote:

Also I never heard of Pot. Persulphate being using in pyro comps.

Possibly because:

A) It's insane & unsafe.
B) The persons who have actually tried it are not capable of telling the results...

chemoleo - 10-6-2004 at 15:17

Well I must be one of those who survived

Actually, it was the most boring oxidiser I tried for pyro. It wouldnt burn with sugar or anything, the only thing I achieved a very timid firy reaction with was sulphur. Definitely no safety hazard... unless you decide to mix it with phosphorous of course... but no oxidiser is safe with it anyway.

Limpet Chicken - 10-6-2004 at 15:59

Well phosphorus IS my favourite element...

Could somebody post a link to a list of UK forbidden/watched chemicals, as I'm not too sure about the more unusual stuff thats going to get me fingered by the long arm of the law (apart from stuff like methylamine, PCl3 etc. :cool

[Edited on 11-6-2004 by Limpet Chicken]

TomThumb - 22-9-2004 at 14:23

That guy who runs it appears to be genuine.
He has a account on ebay and regually sells stuff there.

Persulphate

MadHatter - 2-10-2004 at 18:40

I bought some potassium persulphate from a supplier on eBay. Chemoleo,
you're right about the slow burn rate although I won't underestimate any
oxidizer. As it is, the persulfate was 1 of those compounds I experimented
with for perchlorate electrolysis. I've since found that NaF is better.
Before these 2 it was potassium dichromate.

Back on topic - I've never had any trouble with chemical suppliers on
eBay. The problem I find is that there isn't enough of them ! The
prices have always been reasonable to great depending on whom
I'm buying from.

boris_73 - 5-10-2004 at 02:47

He also owns a company called www.kno3.com i have heard that people do not get there supplies, and some do so if that is the case i wouldnt buy of him the kno3.com website is also more presentable which does get you thinking if it is an ok company

www.kno3.com

MadHatter - 5-10-2004 at 09:51

The prices on that site are EXPENSIVE ! I'm glad I shop elsewhere.

boris_73 - 5-10-2004 at 10:15

i thought some of them were pretty cheap eg sodium 25g for £14 or potassium or sodium chlorate where do you shop then

neutrino - 5-10-2004 at 15:43

14 pounds for 25g!?!?!?! That's INSANE. Even Unitednuclear's prices are cheaper than that! You really need to shop around.

neutrino - 6-10-2004 at 13:14

As you may learn, there are other sources of chemicals like these than pyro suppliers. In some parts of Europe, NaClO3 is used as a weedkiller. You just have to look around.

neutrino - 7-10-2004 at 14:08

Because I'm just starting chemistry, I don't really have many. The ones I do have have mostly been acquired from supermarkets, hardware stores, pool supply stores, etc. You just have tonknow where to look and what to look for. If I did have any good sources, I wouldn't post them anyway, for fear of k3wls getting to and destroying them.

Magpie - 7-10-2004 at 20:41

Neutrino I know how you feel about k3wls and others of poor judgement when it comes to source abuse. I have recently found some good sources with very cheap prices and would like to share this with the forum. However, these sources would likely dry up if they received too much bad publicity due to the actions of k3wls and the like.

maniacdoug - 24-10-2004 at 00:52

I frequently buy stuff from this guy via ebay and KNO3.com. I have had no problems and delivery is usually within a day or two.

However, his price for potassium perchlorate is obscene - 500g for £65!!!

If anyone knows a source of this either in the UK or who will ship to the UK I would appreciate it.

axehandle - 24-10-2004 at 04:56

This company will (most likely, see here) ship to the UK.

You'll find KClO4 in the price list found here. Look for Kaliumperklorat.

They're not cheap, but seems to be only 1/3 as expensive as your source. Don't try to order NH4ClO4 though, you'll have hell with the paperwork (it's classified as a strategic chemical).

Reverend Necroticus Rex - 9-12-2004 at 03:03

I will have some feedback as to the definate quality of service from KNO3.com.

I currently have 100g of phosphorus on the way, and will post feedback on how it went when my RP arrives

Edit: not at a bad price either, they don't charge shipping in the UK, and the phosphorus itself cost arund £20 for 100 grams.

[Edited on 9-12-2004 by Reverend Necroticus Rex]

Reverend Necroticus Rex - 14-12-2004 at 08:49

My order came today, perhaps a little slower than I would have liked, but it came, so thats what matters

Actually, I believe it came 2 days ago, but it wouldn't fit through my door, so I had to send my father to pick it up from the mail sorting office

smart move..

Vitus_Verdegast - 16-12-2004 at 06:04

Quote:

I currently have 100g of phosphorus on the way, and will post feedback on how it went when my RP arrives

I hope you will be able to continue giving feedback, 'cause in this sad day and age your order might -as I hope you realize- cause certain authorities to come knocking on your door to see what your intented purpose with that substance is.

Red phosphorous is not only a well-known reagens in methamphetamine manufacture, but so much more, especially if your first name happens to be Rachid or Mohammed if you catch my drift...

HRH_Prince_Charles - 16-12-2004 at 10:35

Except when they get to your front door, they won't knock.

The company certainly used to be kosher. Likely watched and you could end up on a list.

[Edited on 16-12-2004 by HRH_Prince_Charles]

Blind Angel - 16-12-2004 at 11:36

For that he would need to be an american, in Canada and other country RP is not that watched.

Reverend Necroticus Rex - 16-12-2004 at 15:59

From the UK actually, I'm not sure if it is watched, but simple possession of RP isn't illegal here yet...

legal....but suspicious

UpNatom - 17-12-2004 at 13:06

Of course it is watched.

Quote:

but simple possesion of RP isn't illegal here yet

'Reasonable suspicion' [a deliberately ambiguous definition] means a police officer can kick your door in because he suspects you might be breaking the law. He isn't particularly bothered that the RP in itself isn't illegal...it's what you might be doing with it that he's gambling on. If he does enter your home [with his 7 or so colleagues] he will probably confiscate the beautiful quickfit you keep under your bed (for immediate pulverisation and forensic analysis) and anything else that looks slightly chem/science related since you are now suspected of running a drug lab by the mere presence of the labglass.

Our friend at KNO3 had/has another website which had lots of references to the cumbrian police force. I haven't checked it in a while so it may or may not still be up but it appeared to be some kind of sarcastic joke at their expense. Funny maybe...but definetly not smart!

On the other hand you could order the item and have it sent to you 'Post Restante' which is a little like having a PO box but doesn't cost you a penny. You can have any item delivered to a post office where you pick it up in person instead of having it sent to your home address.
Read about it here:
http://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm/jump2?catId=400040&me...

Reverend Necroticus Rex - 17-12-2004 at 19:20

Thank you. I didn't know of the service, but as it turns out thats what happened anyway, as the package of phosphorus was too big to fit through my letterbox.

As it happened, I send my father to pick it up from the sorting office for me

Oh well...he's going to have another package to pick up fairly soon...at least he is good for something! (I don't like him)

Have you the address for that other site you made mention of by the way?

[Edited on 18-12-2004 by Reverend Necroticus Rex]

thats not quite what happened

UpNatom - 18-12-2004 at 13:01

Your mail was addressed to you at your home but was held at the royal mail sorting office I would guess, because of non-delivery. Poste restante must be clearly marked as such by the sender and should be addressed to you @ the address of your favourite post office eg:

Poste Restante
Rev. Necroticus Rex,
Main St. Post Office,
Herby City

Your don't put your home address on it (and that is the beauty) and you just go along and pick it up in person (ID may be required but usually anything else with your name printed on it seems to count as ID in my experience) If you have it sent in a friends name....well you get the picture.

F.T.P.I.G [For The Protection of Innocent Glassware.]

Edit: The page has been removed but the link to it still exists here:
http://www.chemicalsman.com/kno3urls/home.html

[Edited on 18-12-2004 by UpNatom]

CHEMICALSMAN.COM

Kerry-AnnShanks - 23-8-2005 at 15:15

Hello,

Just in case anybody would like to know chemicalsman.com is part of www.kno3.com who do supply chemicals worldwide as i have bought several times.

www.kno3.com

Kerry-AnnShanks - 23-8-2005 at 15:21

Quote:

Originally posted by Limpet Chicken
Have a look at their (crappy) website, they don't seem to HAVE anything even remotely innocent, I suppose if I don't hear any bad experiences from other members, I might take the risk of ordering some magnesium ribbon or turnings, as far as I know there isn't too much suspicion attatched to magnesium, I'm pretty much certain I can't be busted for it anyway

Sorry the site is not perfect but we have sold more than $500,000 of chemicals to the US and europe in the last 12 Months. We must be doing something right!

Kerry-AnnShanks - 23-8-2005 at 15:25

This site www.kno3.com does deliver or your money back.

Kerry-AnnShanks - 23-8-2005 at 15:30

I work for www.kno3.com and can clearly state the cumbrian police force have nothing to do with this company and have never been in touch.

Please if you are truthfull tell me were the links are?

www.kno3.com Good Company

Kerry-AnnShanks - 23-8-2005 at 15:39

Quote:

Originally posted by UpNatom
Your mail was addressed to you at your home but was held at the royal mail sorting office I would guess, because of non-delivery. Poste restante must be clearly marked as such by the sender and should be addressed to you @ the address of your favourite post office eg:

Poste Restante
Rev. Necroticus Rex,
Main St. Post Office,
Herby City

Your don't put your home address on it (and that is the beauty) and you just go along and pick it up in person (ID may be required but usually anything else with your name printed on it seems to count as ID in my experience) If you have it sent in a friends name....well you get the picture.

F.T.P.I.G [For The Protection of Innocent Glassware.]

Edit: The page has been removed but the link to it still exists here:
http://www.chemicalsman.com/kno3urls/home.html

[Edited on 18-12-2004 by UpNatom]

Hello, UpNatom,

Can you tell me were you have seen cumbrian police force posts about www.kno3.com as i can't find any and i work for kno3.com and have not had any dealings with police? Or on the other hand you maybe a competitor?

In the state of, Greater Manchester

Lambda - 23-8-2005 at 18:37

Hello Kerry-AnnShanks,

I will appreciate it, if you would be so kind as to explaine this "typo" for a UK run firm:

Quote:

About Us

RAW CHEMICALS INTERNATIONAL LIMITED is located , in the state of, Greater Manchester.

We specialize in hard to find chemicals and have shipped more than 5,000 orders worldwide in the last year.

Whether you’re an individual or a business we can supply what you need. All orders are automatically taken via the shopping cart and orders leave the same day when possible.

Thanks for shopping at RAW CHEMICALS INTERNATIONAL LIMITED

Kno3 website:
http://www.kno3.com/infopage.asp?page=7

This seems rather American, or dose the UK also have "states" nowadays ?
Bomb making chemicals on the front page, plus "ignitor cord" ?

You can read more about this here:
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=4166

I am not accusing you or your firm of anything, but just presenting the facts as I know it from what I have read, that's all. And I am not a competitor, nor a terrorist.

[Edited on 24-8-2005 by Lambda]

vulture - 24-8-2005 at 00:33

Quote:

Bomb making chemicals on the front page, plus "ignitor cord" ?

There is no such thing as "bomb making chemicals". There are chemicals that can be used to make, in this case, crude bombs.

Don't be a hypocrit and complain about fearmongering media one day and use their warp tactics the other day, please.

Lambda - 24-8-2005 at 00:54

Vulture, I was not trying to be a hypocrit, but the issue here was, the point of this company being legitimate (not a trap). The combination just seems odd, as can be read in the thread that I had quoted. I was just presenting things as I have read them. My personal opinion aside.

[Edited on 24-8-2005 by Lambda]

UpNatom - 25-8-2005 at 10:28

Kerry-AnnShanks,
A webpage referring to the cleveland police was published on the chemicalsman site. The link I provided above no longer illustrates that fact because the page has been changed.

However you clearly didn't take into account the google cache which holds an original copy of the page here and you can clearly see 2 references to the cleveland police.
One link points to another page called cleveland_police_coruption.html, again also removed.

And no I'm not a competitor, but I can see why you might be worried. You prices are outrageous and that leaves a lot of room for others to undercut you I suppose......hmmm I wonder....

CHEMICALSMAN.COM

Kerry-AnnShanks - 25-8-2005 at 12:31

The fact that chemicalsman.com posted on it's website that it has information of corruption inside cleveland police, What part of this means that CHEMICALSMAN.COM and legitimate chemical sales has anything to do with that?

Also we are not based in cleveland and have not broken any laws selling chemicals. As far as prices go and judging only bye the amount of sales daily we must be priced right.

I don't know when you posted your posting but some of our prices just cannot be beaten or item can't be found anywere else.

If after more than 5,000 sales this feedback is worst against www.kno3.com then we have done a very good job. but you can't keep all people happy all the time, But can keep most people happy most of the time! Enough said.

RP source

lemuralia - 25-8-2005 at 15:21

The thing I find suspicious about kno3.Is that the place you sourced the RP tubs from is notorious for working with the police.

[Edited on 25-8-2005 by lemuralia]

DP - 26-8-2005 at 12:30

I highly recommend that nobody order from this company. I know someone that is about to do a long prison term for ordering RP from them.

Also, they never respond to e-mails and I've heard a lot of bad things from other people after they placed an order. It seems like this company has people in the US working for it that's just trying to get people busted so watch the hell out!

Taaie-Neuskoek - 26-8-2005 at 14:12

In The Netherlands the use of those kinds of sugertraps is forbidden by law, provoking is not a legimate way for the police to handle. I think this is also the case for other EU countries, except for maybe Great Brittain.

woelen - 26-8-2005 at 15:24

@Kerry Ann Shanks

Is this also you? Very similar style of writing.

http://www.zen9251.zen.co.uk/

Some other interesting thing:

The domain kno3.com indeed is in Texas, but that does not necessarily mean that the company itself is in Texas, but I would be pleased to read an explanation from Kerry-Ann

Domain Registry Trace:

Record For
kno3.com

Registrant:
Shanks, Kerry-Ann

ATTN: KNO3.COM
c/o Network Solutions
P.O. Box 447
Herndon, VA 20172-0447

Domain Name: KNO3.COM

Administrative Contact :
Shanks, Kerry-Ann
z62z75482ry@networksolutionsprivateregistration.com
ATTN: KNO3.COM
c/o Network Solutions
P.O. Box 447
Herndon, VA 20172-0447
Phone: 570-708-8780

Technical Contact :
Shanks, Kerry-Ann
z62z75482ry@networksolutionsprivateregistration.com
ATTN: KNO3.COM
c/o Network Solutions
P.O. Box 447
Herndon, VA 20172-0447
Phone: 570-708-8780

Record expires on 20-May-2008
Record created on 16-Feb-2005
Database last updated on 04-Jun-2005

Domain servers in listed order: Manage DNS

DNS1.SECURE-SHOPS5.COM 69.44.61.169
DNS2.SECURE-SHOPS5.COM 69.44.61.169

This listing is a Network Solutions Private Registration. Mail correspondence to this address must be sent via USPS Express Mail™ or USPS Certified Mail®; all other mail will not be processed. Be sure to include the registrant?s domain name in the address.

Current Registrar: NETWORK SOLUTIONS, LLC.
IP Address: 69.44.61.169 (ARIN & RIPE IP search)
IP Location: US(UNITED STATES)-TEXAS-SAN ANTONIO
Record Type: Domain Name
Server Type: IIS 6
Lock Status: REGISTRAR-LOCK
Web Site Status: Active
DMOZ no listings
Y! Directory: see listings
Web Site Title: Welcome to RAW CHEMICALS INTERNATIONAL LIMITED - We Accept All Credit And Debit Cards, Fast Worldwide Shipping, USA & Canada In 3 Days, Insured Postage, Free Shipping In The UK.
Secure: No
E-commerce: Yes
Traffic Ranking: 3
Data as of: 02-Jul-2005

Heck

chloric1 - 26-8-2005 at 19:57

You do not need to worry about me ordering. Even if it where not a sting, online orders with a nonsecure site is financial suicide! Listen, what is that sucking sound....it is hackers tapping off what remains of your debit/credit card balance :cool:

Lambda - 26-8-2005 at 20:11

Quote:

Originally posted by vulture

Quote:

.....Don't be a hypocrit and complain about fearmongering media one day and use their warp tactics the other day, please.....

If giving examples of "fishy" advertising tactics that smells of "trap", ultimatly ends up in being called a "hypocrit", then so be it. I perferre to be called a hypocrite who tries to prevent a snake from biting, than to just to sit idle and let the inevitible happen. This company stinks !, and the more I read about it, the stronger the stench becomes. Oh, and this is now my personal opinion.

[Edited on 27-8-2005 by Lambda]

vulture - 27-8-2005 at 07:19

I was merely referring to the fact that you are labeling certain chemicals as "bomb making chemicals". Ofcourse it's a good thing that you try to bust suspicious companies.

Quote:

I know someone that is about to do a long prison term for ordering RP from them.

You mean buying RP is illegal in the states?

[Edited on 27-8-2005 by vulture]

Lambda - 27-8-2005 at 07:49

As a chemist, I should know better than to use the words "bomb making chemicals". You are right about this. However, I am surprised that nobody has kicked my ass yet for all my typo's. You are all just to polite here at Sciencemadness

. I will as from today install a spell checker on this computer, which I bought today.

neutrino - 27-8-2005 at 07:51

I'm guessing that he's talking about someone who was busted by a tip-off from this company.

Fleaker - 27-8-2005 at 07:52

IIRC, it [RP] is illegal if you're not affiliated with an institution or a company with legitimate use.

If that is the case (as I think it is) then the company in question shouldn't be allowed to sell RP to consumers in the U.S. without the proper paperwork. That would, in turn, explain the warnings of several of our board members because I suspect that red phosphorus going to a residential address would arouse suspicion/investigation.

DP - 27-8-2005 at 09:01

"You mean buying RP is illegal in the states?"

Yep, the DEA threshold for RP is 0, so that means being in possession of any amount (lets say... even 1mg) without a DEA license is against the law. The person I spoke about was visited the day after delivery and they found other things basically in plain view, which made the charges stick. This person is rather dull imo so that didn't help either. I bet customs checks every order that ships to the US from this company or they are working with LE.

S.C. Wack - 27-8-2005 at 10:36

It is my understanding that the federal listed chemicals regulations are more of a record-keeping nature and do not carry penalties for possession. I haven't really looked hard outside of the main part of that legislation, though, maybe such things are elsewhere.

If nothing else, receipt is likely all the necessary "reasonable cause" to start whatever level of investigation that LE chooses to do.

Individual states have made possession of RP w/o permit a crime under precursor laws, and I suppose that other jurisdictions simply charge one with intent to manufacture methamphetamine, for whatever amount that that amount of RP will supposedly convert. If one is found in possession of RP and does not own a business/laboratory(this does not include "amateur" chem labs)/school that uses it, there is no defense. A full investigation of you will be made and you will be charged and convicted of everything possible.

The pending (still, I think) Canadian RP legislation also looks like a license thing for possession, which is probably better than being convicted of intent to manufacture.

The govt. could certainly block import of RP from any well-known supplier whenever they wished.

kno3 is a sting/ sugartrap

catfish - 28-8-2005 at 10:05

Hi all-
my first post here...I will try to find the post on another board that proves that kno3.com is a bust.
Run by some LEO (law enforcement officer) in the states.
If you're in the UK or EU, you should be safe, but if you're in the US, beware...you may have LEO kicking down your door in the near future.
-cfg

catfish - 28-8-2005 at 10:20

Hi all-
check out this post on synthetikal, then follow the thread...
-cfg

Rabidwolf - 19-12-2005 at 03:12

*bump*
SWID is thinking aboot getting some misc. chems from this site at some point in the future.
has anyone from the great white north done any recent buisness with this company?
or how aboot....
has anyone from the great white north who has previously ordered from this site, been prevented from doing so again due to incarceration?

Rabidwolf - 19-12-2005 at 03:42

http://www.theunion.com/article/20050802/OPINION/108020096

an article from a newspaper in western nevada county that mentions this site.

hell.fire - 19-12-2005 at 06:47

I've never had any problems with kno3.com they've allways delivered on time. The only onw problem I had with them was they sent me some H202 that was poorly packaged and was leaking. I ended up with white hands and so did my dad lol. :p

I don't order from them now i've found cheaper and better sources I can get 5 litre of H202 for the same price as kno3.com sells theirs lol. All I order from them now is the PIC and if someone comes and knocks down my door asking "why did you buy the PIC?" Ill tell them I use it to ignight my potatoe cannon, which I do lol.

There is another company that look's like it's ran by the same people that do kno3.com
http://www.thechemicalshop.com/index.asp

I don't know if you should trust either company just be ready to explain your self should any one come knocking.

If your still wanting to buy from the'se suppliers I sugest you don't order to your own house if your really that paranoid. But as I said i've never had any problems from them so i'll continue to buy the PIC for my cannon.

Rabidwolf - 20-12-2005 at 17:48

hmm, mebbie it won't be that much of a problem to order red phosphorous so i can make homemade "armstrong's mix"

[Edited on 21-12-2005 by drayen]

hell.fire - 20-12-2005 at 18:15

Don't make armstrongs mix it's extremely sensitive.

Xeluc - 25-12-2005 at 21:35

Quote:

Originally posted by hell.fire
I've never had any problems with kno3.com they've allways delivered on time. The only onw problem I had with them was they sent me some H202 that was poorly packaged and was leaking. I ended up with white hands and so did my dad lol. :p

I don't order from them now i've found cheaper and better sources I can get 5 litre of H202 for the same price as kno3.com sells theirs lol. All I order from them now is the PIC and if someone comes and knocks down my door asking "why did you buy the PIC?" Ill tell them I use it to ignight my potatoe cannon, which I do lol.

I looked at your website that you gave. They have a webcam of some sort on that page. Check it out. When you click on the webcam, it shows one of those text light things. It says www.kno3.com . then it talks about odering and how they ship fast. This is on www.thechemicalshop.com. So lets put this all together now. You got at least 3 websites linked together, the guy who presumably is responsible for all this on here saying how reliable they are (Woelen found out that he is the head dude), and stories of peopel being busted. I sure won't be buying from them... Yeah, i have no doubts that if i bought some magnesium ribbon from them, all would go well. RP? maybe not

evil_lurker - 25-12-2005 at 22:32

Personally I think the site is legit.

However, it is illegal to attempt to import RP into the states without a DEA permit.

Customs will snag it, then they may or may not let it get to your house.

Irregarless more than likely you will be getting your door kicked down soon after they ship it out.

Would be a damn great way to get revenge on someone.

Rabidwolf - 25-12-2005 at 23:10

ah the joys of living in the great white north....
at least untill the end of jan where the canadian gov't has announced it's going to start regulating RP.

el bastardos.....

but untill then i'm thinking a trial order of RP and KClO3. should be an intresting way to test what i can get sent to my friend's place.
and it provides pluasable bullshittability if any boys in blue come to my friend's place
(unlikely though, since canadian legislation isn't in place just yet)

but on the off chance they do...
on a piece of paper make a small pile of KClO3,
on the same paper, make a small pile of RP
gently mix the 2 together using the paper itself
and if it doesn't set itself off like that, smack the mix with a hammer.
proceed to giggle manically untill the officer sees that you're more of a threat to yourself then to anyone else in society and leaves you alone...

[Edited on 26-12-2005 by drayen]

12AX7 - 26-12-2005 at 00:58

Good way to explode the hammer, and all pressure sensitive media nearby (eardrums, lungs, brains, well, your brains I can't complain about, that would just be the explosive fighting back from being injured

). However I wouldn't be opposed to say, preparing the mixture in a quarry or field, adding a pebble and throwing the charge a good distance.

...Uh, but I digress. Back to the topic

Tim

Lotek_ - 26-12-2005 at 01:13

is rp/KClO3 that powerful? ive wacked some ap with a hammer and just got a little jump.

whats the deal with rp/wp/bp? are they diffrent chemical compounds? why is black worthless and white near worthless?

i really shoulda jsut googled that.

sparkgap - 26-12-2005 at 02:10

White phosphorus isn't worthless; it's just that the red allotrope is much safer to handle and use for most procedures calling for phosphorus.

(although I am hard-pressed to think of a practicable use for black P...

)

MadHatter here says he seared his eyebrows off with "Armstrong's mixture" back when he was young...

sparky (~_~)

Rabidwolf - 26-12-2005 at 13:24

seared his eyebrows off???
this would probably be a good time to mention that it's not recommened to see what an explosive mixture looks like all up close and personal when it detonates

hodges - 26-12-2005 at 14:50

Back when I was in high school RP was not watched, and I had some. I remember it was in a small shiny can. For my fireworks "performances" one thing I did sometimes was to take an old flare that had been burned and put out (there were tons of these nearby on the railroad tracks - apparently trains sometimes used these to signal street traffic). I would place a brick on the sidewalk, stick the flare in the hole in the brick. Then I would carefully add first potassium perchlorate (I didn't have potassium chlorate - maybe that is a good thing as far as this reaction) and then a bit of RP on the top. To start my fireworks shows, I would jump around with a broom, then hit the top of the flare with the end of the broomstick. This would ignite the flare.

I also liked burning RP because it made so much smoke. Somewhere at my father's house I believe there is still a Polaroid shot of the neighbor's house completely obscured by smoke (after the wind blew it in that direction).

densest - 30-12-2005 at 18:21

Armstrong's mix is NOT a joke. It can go off with the impact of a drop of water, the friction of folding newspaper, the pressure of your fingers, or anything else it pleases. Furthermore, if either the chlorate or the phosphorous is impure, the dreaded HClO3 explosion is guaranteed to set off the rest of the mixture. All you need is some P4O10 and a little moisture from the air, and you have H3PO4. Connect the dots with your missing fingers.

Rabidwolf - 31-12-2005 at 01:43

(though SWIM's mind is more focused on a higher octane version of a common decongestent for personal use)
SWIM's friend just recently placed an order for RP + KClO3 and is intending on doing a few small scale (>.25g) "BOOM....teehee

" type experiments for amusement purposes.

in ammounts not exceeding a combined weight of 0.25g.
SWIM's thinking the safest way to combine the 2 would be pouring each off thier own piece of paper into beer cap, and use a hot wire(whilst wearing leather gloves) to set it off.

so how does the "go off with the impact of a drop of water" thing work?
is the addition of water pretty much gurenteed to set the conditions right for it to go BANG or does it increase sensitivity?
i wonder if the combination will react with MeOH....
idea for something for shits and giggles:
in a pop bottle cap,
add a small ammount of MeOH
then add KClO3 + RP
gently mix
allow to evap
and voila.
you have a REALLY big cap

[Edited on 31-12-2005 by drayen]

neutrino - 31-12-2005 at 08:51

This talk of Armstrong's mixture should probably be put into another thread, as it is rather irrelevant to the current discussion.

Rabidwolf - 6-1-2006 at 18:31

so back on the topic....
SWIM made an order for the 2 aforementioned chemicals near the end of december...
still haven't seen anything delivered to SWIM's place, and SWIM sent them 2 emails and they haven't responded.....
el bastardos....

and they charged $81 to SWIM's visa, but thankfully visa has this "e-promise" thingy
http://www.visa.ca/en/personal/shop_epromise.cfm
apparently if you get dicked around, and charged for an order you haven't recieved. and haven't been able to get ahold of the company. you can get the credit card monster to try and get ahold of them and/or cancel the charges

[Edited on 7-1-2006 by drayen]

Rabidwolf - 7-1-2006 at 20:24

mmmkay
so they did send me a package, unfortunately canajun post offices are closed on sunday so i can't pick up my pyrotechnic playthings till monday

Rabidwolf - 9-1-2006 at 22:11

!UPDATE!
SWIM picked up his package of "potassium salts for garden shrubs"
(along with the RP

)
SWIM very much likes this company, and their smart packageing.
R-C-I Ltd is a much nicer name then raw chemicals international for a return address.

the only thing they did wrong was having an MSDS sheet for NaOH instead of RP.

RP

MadHatter - 10-1-2006 at 17:51

I'm suspicious of any company that offers instructions on getting RP from matchbooks.
www.chemicalsman.com does this. It sounds like an extraction technique used by meth cooks.
RP is not illegal to possess by federal law however I cannot speak for individual states.
Federal law does require record keeping for up to 2 years for all sales and of course we
can expect the salespeople to report the purchase to the DEA because they want to remain
on good terms with the feds.

[Edited on 11-1-2006 by MadHatter]

bullstrode - 11-1-2006 at 05:37

Quote:

Originally posted by MadHatter
Federal law does require record keeping for up to 2 years for all sales and of course we
can expect the salespeople to report the purchase to the DEA because they want to remain
on good terms with the feds.

The salespeople don't have anything at all to do with 'the feds', because they are part of a British company operating within British jurisdiction. Americans might find this difficult to understand, but American LEA have no jurisdiction in foreign countries.

The company is not a front operated by the FBI, CIA or whatever. Simply, someone is taking advantage of UK law to operate a business selling difficult to obtain chemicals at extortionate prices. You can be sure that the company will do nothing to protect the identity of purchasers, and besides, the UK authorities (and therefore US) will have full access to related banking and credit card records.

bullstrode - 11-1-2006 at 09:48

What do you mean by that Lotek? That you believe that there has been hearsay that it is a US-based site? The fact is that it is a British company located in Britain. It used to operate from northern England, now seems to operate from Scotland. Where is the evidence that it is a US front company?

Edit: Lotek's post seems to have disappeared.

[Edited on 11-1-2006 by bullstrode]

KNO3.COM

kno3.com - 31-3-2006 at 15:29

I am working with KNO3.Com and thechemicalshop.com and can tell you that we do not work with the police unless we are robbed of the payment made via credit card. Everything sold is legal in the UK and we do not pass information to other countries. If You check our prices now you will see they are very cheap compared to before.

We are fast at delivery and can even deliver next day up till 1PM. We Bought the company in july and have a great record with our customers. We are not the Police or any other agency if that makes you feel better but sell Legaly sold chemicals from the UK. We do not report or follow through on orders Outside the UK. We arew here to sell Legal chemicals and that is what we do.

Thank You,

Brian. sales@kno3.com

Cloner - 5-4-2006 at 08:39

Well, anyone could say 'no the police isn't running us' even if there are ten vanloads of arrest team around the corner, about to beat you up, so it's of no use really. If no one reports on the doors coming down from dealing with KNO3.com, that'd be more useful.

woelen - 5-4-2006 at 10:15

I ordered some red P at kno3.com and a little longer ago 2 rolls of magnesium ribbon (25 grams) for a bargain price (special auction on eBay). My own experience is quite well. The order of the red P now is 10 months ago and I still am happily experimenting

.

I know the original story from that person in the USA. Probably that person had a bad trip or something like that

, I don't believe that story.
I also know of a UK-based person, who ordered from kno3.com (mercury and red P), and this person also still is happily experimenting. He still is active on another forum (SFN).

MargaretThatcher - 5-4-2006 at 15:27

Let's get one thing mighty clear: this is not a front company, and it is not illegal to sell these products within its legal jurisdiction. It is not illegal to buy the substances within the UK legal jurisdiction. However, purchasing such substances could be grounds for a police raid if they are suspicious. Suspicion is all that is required in the UK. The electronic transactions are easily and legally snooped as are the postal services. Secondly, the business may keep records - if the business is inspected for legal infraction in the future, who knows what the authorities will find and who they will share them with. These are all matters that need to be considered.

Cloner - 6-4-2006 at 08:53

Great, so the UK doesn't forbid storing and transporting these chems. Of course, it is still a good idea to use a front for your orders for this reason - and that fasco/commie regulations are being shitted out of the politicians mouthes in this age of terrorism scare. Are packages opened and inspected at the border within the EU anyway?

pumpkin - 12-4-2006 at 02:32

http://www.whtimes.co.uk/content/whtimes/news/story.aspx?bra...

Boy, 14, buys explosives on the internet
12 April 2006
A SCHOOLBOY ordered a hoard of explosives that were capable of killing his friends.

The 14-year-old from Hatfield, bought the dangerous materials from the internet to use on an Army cadet weekend.

But the order, which included powders and fuse wire, was found by the teenager's mother who called the police.

A spokeswoman for Herts police said: "Officers attended an address following a call from an adult after a couriered package arrived containing products used in explosive devices.

"It had been ordered by a child at the same address."

The worrying find is now being looked after by the police.

Explosives experts have warned that products such as aluminium powder and potassium nitrate are becoming much easier to get hold of.

They have many innocent uses when used separately, for example aluminium powder is used to coat steel and potassium nitrate is often used in fertilisers.

They are mostly only used together in fireworks because of the explosive effect they produce when mixed together.

In the wrong hands they can cause serious injury and even death.

Safety experts have advised others to steer clear of these substances.

The chemical company which supplied the youngster is now under investigation.

No further action is being taken against the teenager.

MargaretThatcher - 12-4-2006 at 14:58

This kind of thing is the risk. Schoolboy buys bomb-making chemicals. Porcine friends raid company, get addresses for all deliveries. Lots of raids.

Chemicals

MadHatter - 12-4-2006 at 15:15

This is also how people, who have bought from pyro suppliers, get the nasty letters from the
wankers at the CPSC. A couple of people on this board have already received such letters. I
haven't gotten a letter yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if I got one in the future.

neutrino - 13-4-2006 at 17:23

That link doesn’t work. It doesn’t give me the article.

This is the standard bullshit pumped out by the sensationalist media. Of course there isn't a word of non-distorted truth here. Let’s do a little dissection, shall we?

Quote:

Boy, 14, buys explosives on the internet

Last I checked, aluminum wasn’t a powerful explosive. Neither was ordinary saltpeter.

Quote:

A schoolboy ordered a hoard of explosives that were capable of killing his friends.

Huh? Where the hell did this come from? How does possession of pyrotechnic supplies mean you’re going to kill someone with them? I guess possession of firecrackers should be made a capital offense, then. Obviously only killers and rapists possess such lethal implements of evil…

For that matter, where the hell did the part about killing his friends come from? I guess that just owning a butter knife means you want to kill your mother with it…

Quote:

Explosives experts have warned that products such as aluminium powder and potassium nitrate are becoming much easier to get hold of.

100% pure BS. Legitimate pyrotechnic suppliers are being forced to shut down. Moreover, this is just more pure BS designed to inflame people against the subject and cloud their judgment with fear. So what if they really are easier to come by? Will making butter knives easier to come by increase the crime rate? I didn’t think so.

Quote:

aluminium powder…and potassium nitrate…are mostly only used together in fireworks because of the explosive effect they produce when mixed together.

Again, pure BS. Potassium nitrate is certainly used more in agriculture than explosives.
What about aluminum powder in thermite used to weld railroad tracks? What kind of Al powder? Coarse or ultra-fine? Also, you’d have to be an idiot to make ‘explosives’ with Al and potassium nitrate. Any self-respecting human being would use the perchlorate.

Quote:

In the wrong hands they can cause serious injury and even death.

What ever happened to ‘innocent until proven guilty?’

Quote:

Safety experts have advised others to steer clear of these substances.

No more potassium nitrate fertilizer? No more aluminum in airplanes? I doubt this piece of drivel was proofread…

Quote:

The chemical company which supplied the youngster is now under investigation.

Selling things that could potentially be dangerous in the wrong hands is now illegal? The knife shop should then be placed under investigation for supplying the villiage butcher with his implements of meat-cleaving.

FDR's words come to mind.

Quote:

the only thing we have to fear is fear itself - nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror

So true.

MargaretThatcher - 13-4-2006 at 17:53

The press is all about opinion forming and advertising. Well, advertising is a type of opinion forming but you get the idea. The press needs attention and the press needs to motivate the attendees to take pre-packaged ideas on board. The way they do this is through fear and greed - primal instincts. Hence, the paedophile scares (bogeymen); immigrants, foreigners and ethnic minorities (outsiders) and so on. People fall for this crap either because they are oblivious to it, or are too arrogant to think it works on them.

Anyway the actual article is bullshit, but it serves as a warning, because the way the legal system works in the UK, this will be used as an excuse to investigate. Selling such materials to a minor, maybe with illegal packaging is all they need - reasonable suspicion. Bewarned.

kno3.com - 14-4-2006 at 14:47

Hello I am KNO3.COM, Yes I have searched our records and it seems that a 14 year old boy may have bought from us through his mothers address and credit card details. First the card matched the address, the name matched the card and the post code matched the card. As far as being investigated by the police I can not find a reason! We ship via TNT Express next day delivery using proper packaging Limited Quantity labelling and are all chemicals have been agreed with TNT in writing. The 14 year old committed Fraud with his mams card we did more than needed by Law. All chemicals on our site are legal in the UK to sell and buy. We have a large packaging and shipping company in Scotland and are shocked to here that we are under any investigation. Well if selling legal chemicals packaged properly and labelled correctly and shipped with TNT to customers who are 18 or over is breaking the law then lock me up. I do think that the police would like to stop chemicals being sold but that is not what the law says. Any questions from this forum will be replied to. Have a nice day!

kno3.com - 14-4-2006 at 15:07

Quote:

Originally posted by DP
"You mean buying RP is illegal in the states?"

Yep, the DEA threshold for RP is 0, so that means being in possession of any amount (lets say... even 1mg) without a DEA license is against the law. The person I spoke about was visited the day after delivery and they found other things basically in plain view, which made the charges stick. This person is rather dull imo so that didn't help either. I bet customs checks every order that ships to the US from this company or they are working with LE.

KNO3.COM How can customs check every order when they do not even open packages?
The only packages we even get back are because of address not correct. I will say it again we do not have any reason to report sales to the USA. Get Real! sales@kno3.com

woelen - 3-5-2006 at 11:33

I ordered 500 grams of NaClO4 for my transition metal coordination complex expeiments. Nice to have an anion, which does not coordinate to any of the complexes I want to make.

The material arrived in good order and the quality of the material looks very good (nice and pure). One suggestion to kno3.com though: Please give more feedback, when orders are placed. I sent two mails and got no reply to them. So, I already thought that the ordering would be a failure and then to my surprise a parcel arrived, while at the Internet site the order still seems unprocessed and there were no responses to mails.

So, handling of order and speed of shipping and quality of goods: ++

Responses to mails and being clear about status of order: -- next time better

YT2095 - 29-6-2006 at 08:48

I concur, your Feedback with respect to order status sucks

however, in fairness my RP and Iodine crystals did arrive very quickly and also in the TNT van that you mentioned, I`de still like to know what happened to my water-proof fuse though!???
I am pleased that you didn`t bill me for it, and I still got my Over a certain amount discount.

chemoleo - 29-6-2006 at 09:45

Thing is, since I heard about the home raids in Germany of over 700 individuals who purchased chemicals at a certian internet site (the site was busted, and bank account details were used to get the customers address), I have become very untrusty as to the safety of these companies.

Kno3.com, could you please post a link, or whatever, that these chemicals you sell are LEGAL to possess, and to purchase, within the UK? When you sell abroad, I kind of doubt that you'll check their local laws. If they get caught, authorities will likely contact UK authorities... so potentially you are getting yoruself into trouble.
Anyway, please let me know about the legality to purchase/possess these chems.

Also, here's another link... with some pretty funny talking dude with an american accent selling in the UK!
http://www.thechemicalshop.com/index.asp

Magpie - 29-6-2006 at 10:01

That is an interesting website. I love seeing these small companies spring up to fill a need that the big boys don't have the balls to supply.

I don't agree that the accent is US. It sounds British to me. Besides, the dude is too funny to be an American.

evil_lurker - 29-6-2006 at 11:19

Hahahahaha. That is funny at first and creepy later how he follows your cursor around with his eyes.

I wish i could order about a kilogram of red phosphorus here in the USA, but knowing my luck I would get my door kicked in for sure.

ethan_c - 29-6-2006 at 22:30

I talked to United Nuclear (from whom kno3.com used to buy chemicals in bulk).

They ARE a legit company, don't work with the police, and are not aiming to rip anyone off or get anyone arrested.
However, they will ship (RP, iodine) items to countries where those items are actually illegal. UN says five (!) of their regular customers have been arrested for receiving packages from the company.

EDIT: Also, apparently, law enforcement here in the U.S. watches packages that come in from that guy very, very closely…

Moral of the story: If its legal in your country, go for it. I'm sure you could get away with making an order in the US or another country that has similar restriction on items and recieve what you paid for without trouble, but you are putting yourself in what has proven to be a risky position.

[Edited on 30-6-2006 by ethan_c]

United Nuclear

MadHatter - 29-6-2006 at 22:56

They got busted in an FBI raid from what I read. This is so much BULLSHIT because they
wouldn't kiss the CPSC's ass in the crackdown on pyro suppliers due to the naughty
conduct of illegal M-80 manufacturers. They want every pyro supplier to require that their
customers have the BATFE type 20 high explosives license. I'm applying for my license
later this year. So let's all get licensed by the BATFE and tell these "IT'S FOR THE CHILDREN"
types to ram it up their asses.

BTW, those of us who produce our own chemicals for flash will never be deterred ! PROHIBITIONS
DO NOT WORK ! GET A FUCKING CLUE !

evil_lurker - 29-6-2006 at 23:34

IIRC, be advised that it involves waiving your right to privacy and giving the BATF the right to enter your home or premises at any time.

Furthermore, you have to have on your site a storage magazine built to governement specifications and inspected and certified as such, which includes building an earthen berm several feet high around it.

Oh and when they show up, you can expect them to be carrying fully automatic weapons and tactical gear.

I have a friend who has a Title II Class III full auto weapon license. He has had them show up like that... several times.

woelen - 30-6-2006 at 00:23

Quote:

Originally posted by ethan_c
Moral of the story: If its legal in your country, go for it. I'm sure you could get away with making an order in the US or another country that has similar restriction on items and recieve what you paid for without trouble, but you are putting yourself in what has proven to be a risky position.

What's going on in the US

? This is BAD! I'm glad I'm not a US citizen. I always thought it is not _that_ bad in the US. I also ordered 100g of red P from that company one year ago for my element collection and some simple experiments (you can find them on my website). The company www.kno3.com should stop shipping to the US and restrict itself to European countries. That is sad for US-hobbyists, but being arrested for possession of certain chems is even worse

. Over here things are (still, for how long???) more liberal.

Organikum - 30-6-2006 at 02:39

Maybe they really should stop shipping into the USA. For their own safety as lately a company was in GB was raided and the owners imprisoned and are awaiting trial which sold GBL to the USA. And selling GBL in GB is still legal AFAIK.

ethan_c - 1-7-2006 at 10:51

Quote:

Originally posted by MadHatter
They want every pyro supplier to require that their
customers have the BATFE type 20 high explosives license. I'm applying for my license
later this year.
BTW, those of us who produce our own chemicals for flash will never be deterred !

Not all of us can afford $1000 per year to maintain a license that allows us to do what we do already, and certainly not all of us have our own aluminum/magnesium atomizer…

jim20/20 - 17-7-2006 at 14:22

Quote:

Originally posted by Organikum
Maybe they really should stop shipping into the USA.

yup conspiracy laws seem to be the biggest danger here. like a whole heap of us meth labs with kno3 products and very very helpfull us-british extradition treaties. conspiracy to manufacture meth is a crime in the uk to.

kno3.com arrest

Xanax3 - 3-8-2006 at 22:25

Quote:

This organization is either a front operation run by law enforcement in Britain or elsewhere, or at very least is being closely monitored by law enforcement.

Case in point: this article reports a medical doctor who was arrested last month after ordering red phosphorus and iodine crystals from www.kno3.com earlier this Spring.

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