Sciencemadness Discussion Board - MEK?

MEK?

elementcollector1 - 6-12-2012 at 21:30

UTFSE'd, didn't find much on the topic pertaining to my area, so I'll bring it up: Where is a good source of OTC methyl-ethyl ketol, or is there a way to make it myself?
Use: Purification of NdCl3 from neo-magnets

sargent1015 - 6-12-2012 at 23:45

Do you mean Methyl ethyl "ketone"?

If so..

You may get lucky at a hardware or paint store, however I'm almost positive that it is being phased out right now, at least in the states

[Edited on 7-12-2012 by sargent1015]

weiming1998 - 7-12-2012 at 00:39

I got a bottle at the hardware store as "priming fluid" for PVC pipes. The only impurity I know of is a reddish polymer gunk dissolved in the liquid, which can be removed by distillation.

TheChemINC - 12-12-2012 at 15:09

i was fortunate to get some from my local hardware store. Check in the paint isle. I got mine in a true value, but im sure ace hardware carries it too...

MrHomeScientist - 13-12-2012 at 07:52

My local Home Depot and Lowes both carry methyl ethyl ketone, and lots of other chemicals other people have said are "disappearing" like TSP. Maybe I'm just in a lucky area? If the big stores don't have any where you are, try to find a mom & pop place, they usually have lots of interesting stuff.

How are you going to use it in your NdCl3 experiment? I'm very interested, as I'm working on a magnet project right now too.

elementcollector1 - 13-12-2012 at 10:05

Quote: Originally posted by MrHomeScientist

My local Home Depot and Lowes both carry methyl ethyl ketone, and lots of other chemicals other people have said are "disappearing" like TSP. Maybe I'm just in a lucky area? If the big stores don't have any where you are, try to find a mom & pop place, they usually have lots of interesting stuff.

How are you going to use it in your NdCl3 experiment? I'm very interested, as I'm working on a magnet project right now too.

I'll try Home Depot when I next get a chance, then.

EDIT: Video has been deployed. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hLEGMufP78
As for the magnets, I saw a video a while back to purify NdCl3 from magnets that involved dissolving the residue, boiling it down to a dry powder (the last time I did this, it was more of a clumpy mass, and washing it, first with pure isopropanol and second with pure MEK. This gives purple crystals of NdCl3.

[Edited on 13-12-2012 by elementcollector1]

MrHomeScientist - 13-12-2012 at 11:18

That's interesting, seems like a pretty simple way to separate the chemicals. I went the sulfuric acid route instead, and have been separating the Fe-sulfate from the Nd-sulfate by exploiting their opposite solubility behavior. Nd-sulfate actually is less soluble in hot solution than in cold, so it's a lot of heat to boiling, collect crystals, let cool, remove Fe-sulfate crystals, reheat, etc. cycles. Very time consuming, but it's working. Once I have enough Nd-sulfate from this method, I do a recrystallization to get higher purity and nice pink crystals.

elementcollector1 - 13-12-2012 at 11:47

I'd have to recrystallize as well. Maybe sometime I should compare the purity of the resulting Nd compounds between methods.
So, what do you do with the ferric sulfate? Keep it, discard it... use it as garden stuff (pretty sure its a weedkiller)?

EDIT: A user recently mailed me (on my website, too!

) about whether I wanted some MEK from them. Because I suck at figuring out how to reply on my own website, I'll go ahead and politely decline. Thanks anyway!

[Edited on 14-12-2012 by elementcollector1]

MrHomeScientist - 14-12-2012 at 07:45

For now I'm just hanging on to the iron sulfate (still mostly green ferrous with some brown ferric discoloration). No plans as of yet to use it for anything. Nowadays I tend to keep just about everyting I make, to reduce disposal concerns and just in case I might need the chem in the future.

I did see one very interesting comment by Wizzard referencing magnets affecting crystals growth:

Quote: Originally posted by Wizzard

Magnets, on the other hand, mess with crystal growth. Ferrous sulfate (with or without ammonia complex), is neat to grow under the affects of strong magnetism... The crystal structures will align on a broader scale, masses will grow in the same directions, and even single crystals will be split apart as their growth patterns are forced to deviate by the strength of the magnets.

That definitely sounds like something interesting to try.

Purity of commercial MEK

bbartlog - 18-10-2014 at 20:56

Earlier today I purified some hardware store MEK via distillation (this was 'Klean Strip' brand). It starts coming over at 74C, with the still head temperature rising fairly rapidly to 78C or so and then creeping up from there very gradually to 80C, and then increasing again after about 90% of the material has come over, reaching 110C before the flask is dry. I kept the first 90% and discarded everything that came over above 81C, which ended up being almost exactly 10% of the original material (56g of 550g).

The low temperature at the beginning is quite likely due to residual water (which forms an azeotrope), but it looks like it's no more than a few grams, so maybe 1% of the mass.

Anyway, short version: the commercial MEK is far from pure, you should probably distill and/or dry it if you want to use it as reagent rather than solvent.

macckone - 19-10-2014 at 09:41

I am guessing the batch was contaminated with 2-butanol.
This would be the most common contaminant since MEK is made
from it. The MSDS claims 99% purity so I am guessing this
was a bad batch. Either that or they are adding something
to it to make it useless in cocaine manufacture which is
the illicit use of MEK.

Little_Ghost_again - 19-10-2014 at 09:54

Quote: Originally posted by macckone

I am guessing the batch was contaminated with 2-butanol.
This would be the most common contaminant since MEK is made
from it. The MSDS claims 99% purity so I am guessing this
was a bad batch. Either that or they are adding something
to it to make it useless in cocaine manufacture which is
the illicit use of MEK.

Just watched a Columbia video and they used diesel and methanol! Not applicable to the UK, the cost of diesel would triple the cost of cocaine lol.
All that effort for a white powder!
Man how sad people have to get off there chops to enjoy life, come spend a day with me for free smiles and no chemicals included (except the ones you bring me as gifts

, after sulfur at the mo).

zenosx - 19-10-2014 at 17:11

ACE hardware in the US sells it OTC, if you have that in your area. If not, Elemental Scientific has it.

bbartlog - 19-10-2014 at 18:18

Might have just undergone some self-condensation too. It's been on the shelf for a couple of years.

You can't really trust the MSDS, generally speaking.

sbreheny - 19-10-2014 at 18:30

Lab-grade or even ACS grade MEK is easily available on eBay for rather low prices.

Oscilllator - 20-10-2014 at 15:07

Quote: Originally posted by sbreheny

Lab-grade or even ACS grade MEK is easily available on eBay for rather low prices.

Just a heads up: I tried to order MEK from to Australia from America and it got held back at customs because it was flammable.

HeYBrO - 22-10-2014 at 13:40

Quote: Originally posted by Oscilllator

Quote: Originally posted by sbreheny

Lab-grade or even ACS grade MEK is easily available on eBay for rather low prices.

Just a heads up: I tried to order MEK from to Australia from America and it got held back at customs because it was flammable.

What happened then? I was gonna order some tert-butanol, however after hearing this...

[Edited on 22-10-2014 by HeYBrO]

j_sum1 - 22-10-2014 at 14:37

If you are in Australia, tert butanol is available at a good price from www.haines.com.au. Sells to public. Some of their stock is well priced. 500mL of tert butanol set me back $32.
I would be surprised if they couldn't get some MEK also.

Oscilllator - 22-10-2014 at 16:03

Quote: Originally posted by HeYBrO

Quote: Originally posted by Oscilllator

Quote: Originally posted by sbreheny

Lab-grade or even ACS grade MEK is easily available on eBay for rather low prices.

Just a heads up: I tried to order MEK from to Australia from America and it got held back at customs because it was flammable.

What happened then? I was gonna order some tert-butanol, however after hearing this...

[Edited on 22-10-2014 by HeYBrO]

I think you should be OK, even if you order it from overseas and not from Haines like j_sum1 recommends. Tert-butanol is much less flammable than acetone. I have actually personally dealt with Haines before and although their shipping can be slow, you do get your product eventually.

HeYBrO - 22-10-2014 at 20:40

I haven't heard much good from haines to tell the truth (as in they don't even sell to individuals). But now that you guys tell me that, i might have a look. Anyone know where to get phenol in Australia? Say, what ever happened to that luke guy?

[Edited on 23-10-2014 by HeYBrO]

j_sum1 - 22-10-2014 at 22:20

Haines is a bit hit and miss price wise. Their main market is the education sector and that allows the prices to hike right up. It also means there are limits on what they stock/supply. No group 1 metals for example.
Add to that, they charge a pretty penny for shipping and I have had one mishap with a very delayed order.

That said, they have been nice people to work with and have dealt promptly with complaints. They offered me eternal free shipping as an apology. A bit of an overcompensation but I did take them up on one shipment.

I got Mg ribbon from them at cheaper than I could find elsewhere. I would at least look at them for basic stuff. Anything a bit "advanced" or dangerous that is not likely to be needed by schools, you would have to go elsewhere.

[edited to add]
And Luke from Brisbane... Last note from him he was looking into finding lower grades and hence lower prices. I guess he has stock that he has to get rid of first. If he is a serious player in the market then he will undoubtedly be back. There was not much of his stock that I wanted at the prices he was quoting.

[Edited on 23-10-2014 by j_sum1]