Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Endanger of being shut down?

tom haggen - 31-7-2004 at 08:10

I noticed that when you try and visit roguesci's home page a message is diplayed that says-
Account for domain has been suspended
I remember a few months ago that someone had mentioned that these types of websites are being shut down. Could this be the begining, and could this site be next?

unicorn - 31-7-2004 at 08:27

I remember that being said too tom. IIRC, after recent server too busy issues at roguesci, mega did say that the site would go down fairly soon for some maintenance, but I didn't think he meant this.

I wonder if any of the roguesci mods that post here could shed some light on it. Even if it has been forced to shut down, I doubt we are in as much danger here as we don't tend to dicuss such controversial subjects anywhere near as much as over there.

The_Davster - 31-7-2004 at 10:03

The mods already did shed some light on this problem...In the first thread on this topic...

unicorn - 31-7-2004 at 10:37

Oh right thanks, what criteria does one have to meet before one can ask for the whimsy password, or is it just a case of asking?

Saerynide - 31-7-2004 at 10:51

I think its just a case of asking and so passerbyers dont flood it with chem/random/porno stuff :D


MadHatter - 1-8-2004 at 06:50

Polverone sent me the password for 'Whimsy'. It's not setup for
passerbys as it must be requested by a registered member from
an administrator through a U2U message.

knowledgehungry - 2-8-2004 at 05:17

I don't have the PW for whimsy and I really would like to know what's happening with E&W. Can anyone tell me? Thanks.

E & W

MadHatter - 2-8-2004 at 21:44

The last thing I read was that E & W is looking for a new web
host. Currently, no reason has been stated as to why their
account is suspended. When they find a new host, I'm sure all of
us will be given an explanation as to what happened and why.

[Edited on 3-8-2004 by MadHatter]

The reason why you should be afraid...very afraid!

nbk2000 - 4-8-2004 at 12:17

The DoD contacted our host and had them pull the plug, as we've been linked to by several pro-jihad arab sites as being a good place (the only place, really) to learn about improvised weapons and explosives.

As a "terrorist trainer" (to quote Them), I'd like to inform you that your asses are next on the hit-list of places to be 404'd.

After all, there are election campaigns that need scapegoats to sacrifice, and "Terrorist" sites, such as roguesci and sciencemadness, are the sacrifices that must be made to keep Herr Bush in power. :rolleyes:

Do some google searching of arab sites, and you'll see your site mentioned next to ours. :p

vulture - 4-8-2004 at 12:24

This is very disturbing indeed (if you really are NBK ofcourse, PGP?).

It's a good thing that we are forbidding practical discussion of HE and such, but if that's going to save our ass...:(


are the sacrifices that must be made to keep Herr Bush in power

Well, well, the next thing you know.....:P

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Saerynide - 4-8-2004 at 12:26


vulture - 4-8-2004 at 12:42

Both Polverone and Madscientist are now aware of the situation. I guess Polverone is backing up the board right now.

Also, we should have a backup from 19 july.

Axehandles also offered to host the site temporarily (hopefully) should the shit really hit the fan.

Polverone - 4-8-2004 at 12:59

The board has been freshly backed up today. nbk2000, your style of writing resembles that of nbk2000 from, and your story does sound plausible. But could you please say the same thing again, signed with your PGP key?

(here, I'm hoping someone already has nkb's public key stored locally, as I don't)

Also, why have no staff members from roguesci sent out email to members about what's taken place? I'm pretty sure there have been mailings before when the site was down for other reasons. If this information can be confirmed with a signed message, I suggest that news of what happened be spread through other forums and private communications.

When was the last time the forum for roguesci was backed up?

Finally, for the edification of all, can anyone here suggest webhosts in countries whose laws do not restrict dissemination of unclassified technical information and which are unlikely to roll over at the first official US requests for censorship? Do such countries even exist anymore?

axehandle - 4-8-2004 at 13:06


Finally, for the edification of all, can anyone here suggest webhosts in countries whose laws do not restrict dissemination of unclassified technical information and which are unlikely to roll over at the first official US requests for censorship? Do such countries even exist anymore?

I'd suggest Russia. I'm not kidding.

Eliteforum - 4-8-2004 at 13:07

Russia! They don't really give a toss as long as they get paid.

Seems you got there before me Axe!

[Edited on 4-8-2004 by Eliteforum]

Don't believe what you see

chemoleo - 4-8-2004 at 15:05

I am sorry, I am rather sceptical about this whole thing, and the validity of 'nbk's' claims.
I just searched google with the term, and to look for anything that contained this string of letters. (i.e. )

Surprise surprise, out of 4360 (of course many aren't unique) I didn't find a single radical political/jihad link (except one, where if6was9 might be a member) that linked to sciencemadness. Sciencemadness is mainly mentioned by other forums, and hobby science sites, and EW of course.

Personally I think/hope this is just some kind of joke, trying to get everyone worried.

Backing up can't hurt, nonetheless :)

PS On a side note - in countries without our latin letter system (i.e. china, arabian coutnries), how do their browsers work? I.e. how would a link be spelt? I was thinking maybe I didn't find links becuase they are in a different language, with different keys... but that hardly makes sense... does it?

[Edited on 4-8-2004 by chemoleo]

CommonScientist - 4-8-2004 at 15:13

Personally, this has got me freaked, but we should eb able to handel it.

If we know of members who are linked to terrorist groups, ban them, delete all evidence of their existence.

I would think that backing up roguesci would take a while, thats why, when I was there, people were backing up the FTP, and it was a bunch of people. So no doubt it could take a while.

Best of luck to us all.

JC - 4-8-2004 at 15:18

I'm not sure it is NBK, either. If it was, I would be suprised that he wasn't taken down at the same time as the site, along with Mega. At the very least, they would pick you up and shake you down just to see what happened, as well as to ensure you didn't decide to just unpack the archive someplace else, and cary on as before.

Also, a good search warrant would ensure that all computers, media, etc. were impounded for analysis for a good while.

The frighteners are always a good way to get rid of people without actually having to censor them.

Anyway, regardless, I wish there had been a simple to download back-up of such a handy site. Same here, really. Being able to click a button to get a stripped down version of all the posts would be very handy. You could easily not select the names or passwords, email, etc. and replace them with a unique id that was just so you could tell who wrote which threads, posts, etc. but without any actual data.

That would stop this from becoming a real issue, as anyone with a fast connection could back it up very fast. Even just the MySQL dump prog would do it, with a tweak or two.

Edit: Installed, XMB is 1.1Mb uncompressed, and the MySQL database is 363K without any posts, many users, etc. so there is a lot of stuff you want to keep, but it is text, and the back-up program allows compression, even via phpMyAdmin's interface, which stuffs it and then sends it to you.

I'll not promise anything, but a button to compress and download the entire forum should be easy enough, and a version that strips out the member data shouldn't be much harder.

[Edited on 4-8-2004 by JC]

Eliteforum - 4-8-2004 at 15:22

As far as I know, neither mega nor nbk pay for the hosting, I believe Anthony pays for it. At least from what I can remember the domain was registered in Anthonys name.

A member did a whois and found that Anthony (or whomever) had registed the whois details with his name and address, to which he promptly changed these details.

This is taken from rough memory from a long time ago though, so don't quote me on this.

unicorn - 4-8-2004 at 16:04

I was discussing the issue of roguesci being down with a friend on the phone the other night and he did a whois on it. It's still registered in Anthony's name apparantly.

I do not believe this is the real nbk either. He has referred to bush as a Great White Bozo in another thread, yet on roguesci I definitely recall him saying he liked Bush, calling him Aryan, and warning those doing all the 'Bush bashing'.

Polverone - 4-8-2004 at 16:41

The 2 messages from "nbk2000" were apparently posted from a public library computer in Missouri. I don't know if this suggests anything about the legitimacy, one way or the other, of the messages we've received. I know nbk was at one time living without an internet connection, but I presume that was rectified since he moderated/participated often enough. If he still had that connection, I don't see why he would use a library computer instead of (say) just using a proxy to post here. Whatever the cause of roguesci's disappearance, I find it strange that none of the staff there have sent out a general email to roguesci's users keeping them posted on what's happening. Of course, if the email addresses were all stored on the roguesci server, that could be part of the problem...

It would be nice if we could get a mod from roguesci to say what's happened and sign the message with PGP (did they all have PGP keys?)

DDTea - 4-8-2004 at 17:20


PS On a side note - in countries without our latin letter system (i.e. china, arabian coutnries), how do their browsers work? I.e. how would a link be spelt? I was thinking maybe I didn't find links becuase they are in a different language, with different keys... but that hardly makes sense... does it?

Standard Arabic only has 29 characters, Urdu and Farsi have a few they have a pretty familiar looking keyboard. The Asian languages do it a bit differently, and from what I understand it varies between Korean, Japanese, and Chinese. In Chinese, they have both "spelling" and classical characters. So they have a program where you type in the spelling and it punches out the classical character.

Not sure about Japanese or Korean though.

S.C. Wack - 4-8-2004 at 17:46

Speaking of roguesci email - its a weird coincidence that since the site went down, my roguesci email inbox has been flooded with returned spam messages. Someone is using that address to spam people with software offers (links) and random words.

I call it my roguesci email inbox because it is unknown and unused otherwise.

This started on the 30th, and continues. Never ever had such a problem before. But I guess it could be coincidental.

So, in how many hands are the roguesci email and IP addresses? Not that such an event, whatever it is, was unforseen.

On topic - the gov't has no good reason to try to shut down this site, but that doesn't seem to stop them from - what did R Duke say - the tendency is to push it as far as you can. And you all know that they do.

Cyrus - 4-8-2004 at 18:56

Let me quote myself.:)

start quote~

I predict this forum and other such forums will be banned or censored within 15 years. If not, they will die out on their own. By then it will be rather hard to get any chemicals anyways, so the forum would be near useless even if it existed.

Just Kidding. I hope. We will see.

~end quote.

Maybe we are beginning to see.

I hope that this is just a fluke, a random crash or maintanance, "nbk2000" is a faker who has nothing better to do than to get everyone worried, and the site will be up and running soon. nbk2000, please validate yourself.

"the gov't has no good reason to try to shut down this site"

Umm, look in the Energetic Materials section. Do you think Uncle Sam cares that THESE explosives are new and exotic, out of the ordinary mundane stuff, and that we don't tell people how to put them inside of pipes and detonate them?

Herr Bush, or Herr Kerry? It doesn't matter. Does anyone think Kerry will stop the "war on terror"?

Don't get me wrong, I am all for fighting terrorists, I don't want to help a terrorist, but I also don't want to lose the ability to talk about chemicals. :)

The solution?

What would the consequences to members themselves be?

could I have the password to whimsy please?

Warning ... Warning ... Warning !!!!

BromicAcid - 4-8-2004 at 19:05

Begin Emergency Fallback Procedure

Reverting to alchemical speak cr. 1625

Coding system based from sun reinstated. Begining new nomenclature system. Rerouting mental pathways. Elements now reduced from 118 to 5.

Do you wish to continue ?


Begin use of archaic names?


Abandon logic and quest for a method to turn lead into gold?



MadHatter - 4-8-2004 at 19:47

It doesn't make any sense that terrorists would even care about these
forums. They don't seem to have a problem getting ready-made
explosives, such as C-4 and Semtex, or RPGs, AK-47s, etc.. They don't
need these forums.

tom haggen - 4-8-2004 at 22:07

It seems to me that sometimes before when roguesci was down, the message “domain suspended,” was never displayed before. The fact that it says domain suspended just raised some red flags in my head, and that’s why I started this post. However, I know next to nothing about web administration so it's kind of a stab in the dark. But with all the skepticism surrounding this thread I'm glad I started it. By the way, if that wasn't nbk posting that message, it was someone who knows his style to the "T."
What about rhadon? Isn't he a member on this site? Maybe he could come forward..

[Edited on 5-8-2004 by tom haggen]

[Edited on 5-8-2004 by tom haggen]

Hang-Man - 5-8-2004 at 20:01

If Rogue Sci isn’t back up by September, I think we can assume it’s gone, and measures should be taken both to create a new one, and to reinforce Mad Sci. I see steps have already been taken to back up this forum, and this is good. I would also advise the mods here to be careful, and pgp anything on their computers that could be seen in as ‘controversial’. Think about it, has anyone heard from any of the Rouge Sci mods? Rhadon was a active member here and I have yet to see him since E&W went down, not that it’s really been down that long (If the American authorities got to Rhadon, then we all have something very large to worry about, he’s half way across the world.) But we have heard nothing, no email, no posts, not a word. One would think Mega would have sent an email to Polverone or Vulture saying ‘heads up’ or ‘it’s just a misunderstanding, everything’s cool’ but no news is starting to get me worried.

If come September, we haven’t heard anything from Rogue Sci, a new one must be created, if not out of necessity then out of principle. If ‘they’ get away with 404ing one site, then they may do it elsewhere. So, if one of the old mods can be contacted, I think the groundwork should be laid for a new forum. As far as a new ISP, I think, nasty as it sounds, that an ISP that hosts porn sites would be a good choice. They clearly have no problems hosting ‘questionable’ material and would most likely defend their customer’s privacy pretty well. Everything should also be offshore, ISP and the guy paying.

My money is still on the outage being some misunderstanding with the ISP, or forgetting to get the domain renewed. But I think it’s necessary to prepare for the worst case scenario.

I have been searching allot all over the internet for mention of it going down but there isn’t anything. You would think this is the kind of thing the government would flaunt, as they know as well as we do that a forum like this isn’t a threat, thus the only reason they would take it down would be to get reelected, and for that, they need the people to know they did it.

Oh, and who actually has the Rouge Sci ftp? One way or another that should be backed up too.

I know Mad Sci doesn’t like being used as a ‘help desk’ for Rouge Sci, hopefully this can be cleared up soon:(


MadHatter - 5-8-2004 at 20:24

Hang-Man, that's an excellent idea about getting RogueScience on an
ISP that hosts porn. You're right - they wouldn't give a shit as long as
they're making money ! Still, the silence is deafening. I'm hoping that
e-mails will be sent out to let us know what happened.

Sarevok - 5-8-2004 at 20:37

It would be unwise to do so. Porn is a thing, a licit thing. Homemade explosives and chemical weapons are another thing, an illicit thing. No one is going to be jailed for hosting porn pictures (perhaps only in China :)) but anyone can be jailed for hosting "bombmaking recipes".

Soon webpages such as roguesci and madsci will not exist anymore, unfortunately. From my short personal experience, the only thing that I can say about this world is that it is looking more and more like Orwell's 1984. Most people are unaware of the fact that their freedom is being taken away because they're too busy watching TV. There is no hope.

[Edited on 6/8/2004 by Sarevok]

Illicit ?

MadHatter - 5-8-2004 at 21:33

In the U.S., the Sherman Austin case comes to mind, it is illegal
to post instructions on bomb making if the site also advocates violence
against the U.S. government. Without advocating violence, I'm not
not so sure that anything can be done - at least legally. Sites like
RogueScience would have shut down long ago if that was the case.
The speculation is that the DoD leaned on RogueScience's web host
because pro-jihad sites posted a link to the site. I view this action as
illegal and reeking of actions by politicians who want to scapegoat us to
prove they're tough on terrorism. I wish the terrorists would post links
to TOTSE. Then maybe they would get killed just by following the
instructions over there.

Sarevok - 5-8-2004 at 22:12

I know nothing of the US laws but, where I live, it IS illegal to talk about explosives's manufacture or any other thing talked about on Roguesci, no matter if you promote violence or not. If things are different in other countries, I bet this is a temporary situation.

The_Davster - 5-8-2004 at 22:22

About the roguesci mods; I saw rhadon's username on the "who's online" box today, and have seen Nick F on many times and even U2U'd him when I initially found out roguesci was down.

back up

al93535 - 5-8-2004 at 23:00

I have backed-up the explosives synthesis section at mega's chem lab. I wish I would have downloaded the entire site. Anyway should I zip it and upload to the scimadness FTP? Or am I allowed to do that? I believe that unless all the mods were arrested (highly doubtful) that it will be back up. I know Rhadon is still around because Boomer talked to him in email, to see what was going on.

Cyrus - 6-8-2004 at 10:37

Using a porn site server is a bad idea out of principle. We aren't porn people. We're scientists. I hope... I hate the idea of being part of a site which assists pornographers!

I think the best solution may be to check out the laws in the US or wherever the server is, and make sure everything is legal. If so, it'll be harder to destroy this site, but not much. :(

I have a idea, we could find an island no one has been on before, (or conquer one;)) call it the country of Sciencetopia, and put the server there...:D

We also might want to edit out anything that could convict us of encouraging violence against the US.:(


MadHatter - 6-8-2004 at 15:24

Sarevok, I'm sorry to hear that it is illegal in your country. Is enforcement of
those laws really rigorous ? It sounds like your politicians may actually
be worse than ours. That's a depressing thought. Anyway, I'll still poke
around on the net looking for any information about RogueScience. There
has to be a way to keep forums like this one up and running even if it
means encrypting the whole thing to keep the LEOs from casual

Wow! look at this!

chemoleo - 6-8-2004 at 18:32

Although I really don't want to contribute to the paranoia... but have a look at this. It's shocking!

Particularly shutdowns for reasons such as this: "Rage Against The Machine" fan discussion forum was shutdown
"Because the FBI called the ISP, saying there was too much anti-American rhetoric on that board" Guerrilla News, October 29, 2001

Where's the freedom of speech gone? Is this the age of censoring? VERY worrisome indeed :(

[Edited on 7-8-2004 by chemoleo]

unicorn - 6-8-2004 at 19:27

I see one of the stories at chemleo's link has this about google: "since September 11, certain 'offensive' pages are un-cached and they are no longer available for viewing."

I wonder who deems what to be offensive or not.

Still, that got me thinking about accessing cached roguesci pages at google by searching for terms that I remember, like nbk's location being the 'shrine of the elder gods' resulting in:

This page

With nbk's PGP finger print:

A30B E78F C8C1 0626 C4DA C90D 95A2 B9E5 D578 AE65

For the chem lab cached pages search for Megalomania's and the desired compound as the search terms and you should get the page you desire (not tried with all compounds).

I hope this helps fellow roguesci members get their fix, and someone may be able to make use of nbk's PGP key - I'm assuming that's the one people are after.

[Edited on 7-8-2004 by unicorn]


MadHatter - 6-8-2004 at 19:34

Unicorn, I went to that site and what the U.S. government is doing is deplorable.
OK, so when does the government sponsored book-burning begin ?

The_Davster - 6-8-2004 at 20:50

I found an archive of some of roguesci's forums from 2001.
Not everything is there but still could have some use.

Sarevok - 6-8-2004 at 21:03

I hope this helps fellow roguesci members get their fix, and someone may be able to make use of nbk's PGP key - I'm assuming that's the one people are after.

Actually, NBK doesn't use that key anymore. It expired some time ago.

Sarevok, I'm sorry to hear that it is illegal in your country. Is enforcement of
those laws really rigorous ? It sounds like your politicians may actually
be worse than ours.

It is. If you open a website such as Roguesci, you will be jailed in a day or two. Of course they are not going to track all the owners of very small, unknow sites.
Our politicians? One, called Hildebrando Pascoal, was jailed because he killed some of his adversaries with a chainsaw! Thanks to the government, 30% of the GDP is taxes. 40 years ago this place was a military dictatorship. And so on...

PS: I know a lot of people here don't like NBK, but I would like to tell you that, one or two years ago, NBK warned us of the "book burning", when webpages would be deleted, and all kind of "dangerous" knowledge would dissappear. And this is happening now.

[Edited on 7/8/2004 by Sarevok]

Book Burning

MadHatter - 6-8-2004 at 22:14

Sarevok, if politicians killed only each other that may not be a
bad thing. Unfortunately, like the drug gangs in my country, they
usually kill innocent people in the process. If RogueScience
doesn't come back, one of things I will surely miss is NBK's
occasional "rants". They always were an interesting read.
It looks like the Patriot Act is the modern tool for book burning
and witch hunts.

CommonScientist - 6-8-2004 at 22:21

Anyone notice that 'nbk' visits daily?

Assuming that your daily visitor counter is accurate that is.

Sarevok - 8-8-2004 at 06:00

I'm sorry "nbk2000". I asked a PGP signed message and you didn't post it. Perhaps you lost the password to the Whimsy section?

You know what the real NBK would do to an impostor, don't you?

[Edited on 8/8/2004 by Sarevok]

IvX - 8-8-2004 at 06:46

Just a thought but perhaps the roguesci people themselves decided to kill it.

knowledgehungry - 8-8-2004 at 09:49

No that wouldn't happen, not like this.

vulture - 8-8-2004 at 12:33

I've recieved signs of life from 4 roguesci mods. I must say all of them are in europe though...

The admins don't seem to deny or confirm anything though...

Future of this kinda information

souleh - 8-8-2004 at 13:22

I will gladly mirror the FTP server's contents and mass-download any of the website's containing archives for roguesci posts. I am my 'own isp' as such, so would have time to protect the content should I get any unwelcome contact.

Also, was pondering on the feasability of creating a distributed message system, similar in operation to NNTP (usenet) but with local client caches and shared posts. PGP has a nice API available to do most common PGP operations, so each post could be digitally signed, and so forth.

This way we take the power out of the hands of the webhost, and I daresay even if one or two users get shut down (ISP issues), then more servers can be loaded easily enough, each linking to another and mirroring their content.

Just an idea, but I must say, I'm rather concerned as to the future of websites providing such a wealth of interesting information. If we can somehow preserve the future of the availability of such information (in similar way as the way napster was shut down, but DirectConnect server's wont be - another just springs up), then perhaps it would be wise to look into doing so as soon as possible.

Just my two cents!

jimmyboy - 8-8-2004 at 18:27

roguesci ftp is gone as well now - bah

Ium - 8-8-2004 at 21:37

Someone mentioned to me something about this fiasco and they believe it has happened because of an alleged explosives encyclopedia which was distributed around the net with references to their website.

Obviously it has impacted many members of the site who frequent here also. It does seem rather strange that there has been little word from the administrators of the roguescience website considering that some do visit here often as a few members say.

It seems websites containing anything the least bit controversial, whether it be political, scientific or moralistic in nature are going the way of the dodo:(.

[Edited on 9-8-2004 by Ium]

Backup and disperse

matjaz - 9-8-2004 at 00:22

I'd say a distributed news-like system is a good idea. Although, we may be running out of time.
The admins here could perhaps copy their backups and send them to a number of seasoned members...? This can be done immediately, much faster than what it takes to build a new messaging system.
Bookburning makes me sad as hell. :(

[Edited on 9-8-2004 by matjaz]

souleh - 9-8-2004 at 04:22

How about, in the meantime (while such a system is being created, which may take some time as you say) we sort a small NNTP network ? I can host a server on my colo servers, and perhaps any user with an 'always-on' connection of reasonable speed (1mbit DSL?) could also host servers, and link together.

I could write a custom NNTP client that automatically signs posts and provides a PGP signature, then verifies received posts to ensure they are valid. This could filter out unwelcome usenet traffic. Also with such a custom client, the style + design could be such that it looks like a website forum rather than the usual plain usenet client interface.

No.. not a clone of rec.pyro et al, more a private NNTP system separate to the general news network.

Just more thoughts; I'd hate for us to leave this sort of idea until it's too late, and the last of our decent sites are shutdown. The beauty of doing something like this is that right now we still have centralised userbases.

don't bother they'll regroup

wantsomfet - 9-8-2004 at 08:49

could be possible the domain expired, cause no one cared or paid...that's what i believe...
i was active in the E&W forum, and monitored it since beginning of 2001. I think the forum will come up again. Perhaps in another form, but it will be back.
For myself i found it disgusting, that the forum had more than 10.000 members.
The golden time was when we had 500-600 members.


Domain Expired

peterthesmart - 9-8-2004 at 09:16

The domain isn't expired, if it was, then you would just get a 404 page. The DNS can still be resolved. Therefore, the domain is still registered and possibly accessable by the owner. If you do a whois on the domain, you'll notice the entry expires in March of next year.

souleh - 9-8-2004 at 11:07

I've done some more looking into NNTP servers, and think perhaps a passworded NNTP network would be a viable option; users would have to request access or have their accounts transferred over from an existing site such as this or roguesci, and new members would be carefully vetted.

That way it'd be fairly secure, easy to mirror and distribute content around a variety of servers; one goes down, the rest take over and you simply connect to a new address.

Any thoughts ?

Roguesci is back

mrcfitzgerald - 9-8-2004 at 11:31

Roguesci is back. It seems a company named iDefense had pressured the provider to suspend the site. Now, however, it appears megalomania has managed to get his site up again. The new site will include such tidbits as chemical weapon data: "There must now be a penalty applied to iDefense. There remains in my possession a considerable amount of knowledge concerning the synthesis of explosives and chemical weapons ... I will no longer horde any of my chemical weapons information," as well as "additional outlets of discussion so we can draw an even greater audience ... [even if they] happen to be Arabic." For further information go to Roguesci!

vulture - 9-8-2004 at 11:46

Megalomania has declared a war onto the culprits that shut down the site.

Seems like the iDefense pals are supreme scaremongerers:

[Edited on 9-8-2004 by vulture]

aikon - 9-8-2004 at 11:51

Originally posted by mrcfitzgerald
Roguesci is back...

I checked the url, butt all I get is the "HostGo!" website. Roguesci isn't back.


HELLO! Check my above post....

[Edited on 9-8-2004 by vulture]

roguesci is back

mrcfitzgerald - 9-8-2004 at 11:59

Clear your internet cache, or try the reload icon. I have posted megalomania's full text in the whimsy section if you still cant get into the website -you can see it there.

vulture - 9-8-2004 at 12:23

They're not only scaremongerers, they also are liars:

Which states they warn the concerned party before disclosing the info to the public or taking action.

Besides that, I think it's a fucking arrogant piece of policy. Who do they think they are?

Send your regards to their intelligence department using the contact form on the site.

A few thoughts.

chemoleo - 9-8-2004 at 14:16

Well that's good news! What is not so good that a rather big company such as iDefense actually bothers to take an interest in roguesci!
Although they may not have the legal arm to shut it down completely, the tendency is there - people ARE getting worried about such sites, and DO wish to see it shut down. I wouldnt be surprised if, in a few years time, the laws were changed to disallow discussions of WMDs (such as in EW lol) altogether.

As to the nbk posting here - judging by those news it WAS the real NBK. I am confused though why he claimed that our 'ass was on the line', too... first the 'wolf and then the wolflings'. I can't imagine iDefense taking an interest in MSDB.
Also, it seems it is not the DoD behind that after all. I wonder why this disinformation was posted. To make us worried (as some kind of joke), or becuase he didn't know better at the time, or a half truth with a few white lies to get the ball rolling? (i.e. what it certainly caused is that now there are backup copies of MSDB with other people other than Polv., 4 FTP sites at the last count, a bunch of EW people speculating here, and people becoming genuinely worried that their hobby and particularly discussion thereof might be declared outright illegal). It's strange, the whole thing.

Also... as to Mega's 'revenge' - I wonder whether it's a wise course of action. It sounds nice to pay back in one way or another... but in the end, the gov. etc is at the longer end of the lever. There is no 'winning' in this situation... and provocation could ultimately cause escalation, and even more rigorous laws to prohibit less Energetic Material oriented sites such as this (MSDB) in the future.
Sure there will always be a loophole, and it seems unlikely that it can be eradicated completely, and forever. But is revenge worth the pain/effort that will surely ensue in order to keep such sites running in the future, always hiding and dodging from the 'authorities'?

[Edited on 9-8-2004 by chemoleo]

souleh - 9-8-2004 at 14:56

I quite agree, such action is surely only likely to cause more issues in future; you make it sound like he will be openly advocating WMD information and instruction - which is very much likely to truely attract the attention of the gov't.

For me, a much better way of getting back at them for the trouble would be to make it nigh-on impossible to stop it - perhaps that distributed content system that was suggested, or another means by which there is no centralised server or location for the authorities to target.

TreverSlyFox - 9-8-2004 at 16:40

I think Mega's revenge will be in the form of releasing ALL the information he has gathered and to more than one site.

What kind of reaction "idefense" will get from some of our 10,000 members at is the more scary question. I have little doubt that one or more of them will do something. More than likely their web page will get hacked again and again at the least.

I sure don't understand POing a bunch of people that have fun expirimenting with explosives and chemical weapons. That's just asking for trouble.

Of course Do'gooders never think of the unintended consequences of such actions.

bLust - 9-8-2004 at 19:43

I am looking forward to seeing the new PO EW. Members of the pre-attacked EW were never too shy to discuss any demolition strategy, explosive, poison, military patent etc. I never thought that it would be possible to discuss anything explosive-related that would be even more controversial that what was standard for EW. Mega's ideas on future spread of information display a natural progression of Weapon of Mass Instruction that EW has been historically. It is always great to get a hold of new info, but I really don’t see the point of going crazy on distribution. I am glad to see that things are looking better for EW and I would like to express my gratitude to Mad Science Discussion Board for allowing EW members to discuss their problems here.

Polverone - 9-8-2004 at 21:42

If you go crazy on distribution, you can be sure that an extended outage like this can be avoided in the future. You can maybe even get it through the skulls of people like the "cyber-warriors" at iDefense that the genie will not be put back in the bottle, and freedom of speech isn't just the freedom to say how much you love flowers and sunshine.

Really, any site (especially discussion sites) with a substantial amount of information on it and any degree of controversy should be archived and widely distributed. Some site operators object to sharing their very special private site content that they and 10,000 other people built, but technology can make progress against such attitudes even if impassioned speeches can't.

mrcfitzgerald - 10-8-2004 at 00:06

I'll agree with the back-up, no doubt that it'll make it neigh imposible for iDefense to censor any forum in the future. The real question is, should Megalomania make public his more sensitive information (eg. His chemical weapons data) From personal experience, I can see that it is easy enough to obtain all the sources youll ever need in regards to chemical weapons. However, this takes effort -effort that the average "kewl" is not willing to expend. If the data is freely distributed to even nonmembers, it could be detrimental to the forum. By no means am I advocating that the knowledge be hoarded -that would be even worse. I just wonder if only trusted users/members should have access to such controversial sysnthesis, lest the media/gov't find it and go on a witch-hunt. It has happened before, as the gov't removed the ricin patent from the patent office after the media pointed it out; I just hope that we can take some small measures to prevent it from happening again. Any ideas?

nbk2000 - 10-8-2004 at 15:34

Even if they took the ricin patent off-line, it's still available in microfilm at the patent repostitories across the country, online, and in printed form in every copy of (one) of the PMJB.

This just sorts out the amauters from the professionals. :)

The professional will always be able to find the information, if it ever existed, as it's neigh impossible to find and destroy EVERY copy of something, especially on the net.

So, the guber-ment sics one of their lackeys upon's ISP, to get them to shut us down.

What's the UIC (UnIntended Consequence) of this?

Rather than having one central place to monitor the state-of-the art in improvised E&W, they scatter the pack into a dozen-hundred-thousand little cells of information Freedom Fighters that now communicate secretly, sharing the information via encrypted cloud-networked onion routers, impervious to tracing or monitoring.

Now the E&W progress goes "dark", disappearing from the radar where the pork can't see it anymore. :)

And when Fedaykin attack, they'll be using weapons that the pork didn't know existed because they drove us underground in some foolish belief that this would protect the flock. :p

"Oh My GOD," someone screams..."they're supporting Tuh-ror-izm!"


What supports is freedom of the mind from the tyranny of censorship, imposed by others or yourself.

Nothing is gained by remaining silent, hoping that someone won't use what you know against you, because this has been proven fallicious countless times throughout history.

when the government tried to block The Progressive from publishing the technique behind the construction of H-Bombs in the '70s, was it to stop the commies from learning how to make them?

No, because the commies had built one just a few years after we did.

So who were they trying to keep it a secret from? The People.

Which is silly, since building an H-Bomb requires such material resources that (so far) only nation-state Superpowers can build them.

Yet the chemistry of CW has been open source since they started using them? And now they get all scared about it?


Is it because CW is well within the reach of anyone who wants to cook up a batch of some nasty in their garage?


But guess what Mr. Pork? The goose is loose and he ain't never coming back! :p

It's all out there, we know how to find it, and we're making available anywhere/anytime to anyone who wants to know it.

If that happens to be some raghead Fedaykin with a lust for virgin poon, and who's gunning for an express ticket to Paradise by offing himself in a toxic haze of CW glory against the Infidels, then all the better.

Eliteforum - 10-8-2004 at 16:29

Yet you still fail to provide your PGP key, stop pretending fool!

chemoleo - 10-8-2004 at 17:01


What supports is freedom of the mind from the tyranny of censorship, imposed by others or yourself.

That is all well and jolly, nbk, but I do remember two particular instances at's forum where two valued members got banned (aka censored) for expressing thoughts that you yourself considered anti-American (while others may say, justified, albeit exaggerated).
In this case I guess the freedom of mind (and speech) was indeed 'censored by yourself', to quote your very own words.

It's easy to speak grand words as long as they are not applied to oneself! :(

[Edited on 11-8-2004 by chemoleo]

vulture - 11-8-2004 at 00:58

IF this person is the real NBK, I assume he has now learned his lesson about the true intentions of the US government.

No further comment on this issue please, let's not start throwing mud at eachother; when two dogs fight for a bone, the third one runs off with it, remember?

Polverone - 11-8-2004 at 09:21

I recently looked at the log reports for for the first time in a while. It appears that a number of Arabic-language sites have been linking to the content there. <A HREF="">This site</A> appears to be duplicated in several locations on the net, always on free web hosts and many of the copies already dead. You'll notice that it links to a bunch of pages about explosives and rocketry, but not to any forum sites or to Megalomania's chem lab. was another site that had linked to my pages, but it was down when I tried to visit. Some searching indicated that it may have been a Hamas-linked discussion forum.

I also came across quite a few Chinese- and Russian-language sites that I couldn't read very well (only mouseover-hyperlinks and snippets of English), but they all appeared to be about drug chemistry or chemistry in general. I would be interested in seeing some of the pro-jihad sites that supposedly linked to

Well well...

chemoleo - 11-8-2004 at 13:48

Someone who speaks arabic translated the first two lines for me - from the site Polv indicated.

3rd issue:
In the name of god, peace be upon the holy prophet.
1st line: Our brothers and lovers of martyrdom on our path to military recognition and our brothers in islamic associations we return to place to yopur hands the 3rd issue of the volume of preparation, that prepares the jihad platoons capable with gods will of returning teh era of islamic rule.
2nd line: We are innocent in the eyes of god of any work of teh intent of harming muslim people. Before any martyr work you must return to the speeches of Osama bin Laden (may god preserve him) and the speeches of fellow martyrdom leaders.

After that what follows are instructions as to how to download files.

That person immediately started laughing his ass off, saying that no real jihad follower would ever think of writing a page like this (especially since Osamas name is mentioned openly), and after he had a look at the links he couldnt possibly see how this could be of any interest to any real jihad fanatics, particularly where all the information that this site links to are totally public (army manuals (straight from the US army), and hobbyist sites such as brainfeverts etc) .
He doesn't think that anyone serious about jihad and such would look at that site more than once (as it is blatently some goof), despite the fact he knows nothing about pyro/expl, where words like that normally scare anyone at first.

So I wouldnt worry too much about it :)

PS is there away to search the web by searching the code behind the pages (rather than the text)? Because this way one should be able to find ALL the links that link to rogue/SM...

PS2 Vulture, I only thought it fair to point out some inconsistencies. But yes you are right, no point discussing it - as it doesn't really concern me/anyone else anyhow :)

[Edited on 11-8-2004 by chemoleo]

Polverone - 11-8-2004 at 15:27

It is possible to find pages that link to pages by going to Google and typing in (for example)

Unfortunately, that will only show pages that link directly to the main page of If people linked to the Controversial Chem Lab, or a subsection of it, or the discussion forum, or a post/subsection from it, those pages would not show up in the above query. Also, discussion forums often generate many hits/links to other pages but are often protected from search engine spiders, so links from them won't show up in any Google query.

I wonder if the sites iDefense thought were linking to roguesci are as amateurish as the page you had your friend translate a bit of. It wouldn't be unsuprising for an organization that's incompetent at evaluating cyber-threats to also be incompetent at evaluating Arabic-language materials and chemistry information.

[Edited on 8-11-2004 by Polverone]

nbk2000 - 12-8-2004 at 07:31

NBK has never had any misunderstanding about the intentions of the US government.

Any who was a REAL member of the E&W Forum knows that I've never been a believer in the hype of "Freedom" that the pols like to spout off about Americans having.

It's all window dressing to keep the populace complacent.

As to why I've not PGP'd any messages to "prove" who I am, does an Aryan need to prove himself Human to insects? :p

Eliteforum - 12-8-2004 at 07:34


vulture - 12-8-2004 at 07:52


As to why I've not PGP'd any messages to "prove" who I am, does an Aryan need to prove himself Human to insects? :p

Let me rephrase that for you: "Because the asskissing n00bs at roguesci could sleep happily with the knowledge that NBK wouldn't post at such a "lame" board as sciencemadness."

Really, you dissapoint me with such a comment.

Hang-Man - 12-8-2004 at 08:42

That's bullshit. nbk would provide his PGP key. And you're comeing on allot stronger with the nazi shit than nbk usually did. You're a fraud untill you provide your pgp.


MadHatter - 13-8-2004 at 10:07

What happened to RogueScience should be a humbling experience
although I can't imagine the real NBK2000 backing down so easily. To
my friends who exist on BOTH boards - don't disparage 1 board over
the other. We're all victims of asshole politicians regardless of political
stripe. I myself am a registered DEMOCRAT even though I often vote
for REPUBLICANS. In the end(no pun intended) either side could fuck
us ! We need to stick together even if it means standing up for the
rights of crapboards like TOTSE ! If the politicians can succeed in
shutting down 1 board, how far behind can it be for the others ?

Vote Libertarian!

fvcked - 13-8-2004 at 10:14

... it's the only way your rights will be protected! Republicans and Democrats are the same, insofar as they take away your rights without a second thought. Whereas the Libertarian party defends your rights without a second thought, it comes naturally! Badnarik for '04:)


MadHatter - 13-8-2004 at 16:22

Will the real NBK2000 please stand up ? I don't use PGP so I can't tell.
If using a PGP key is the only way to verfiy your identity, then please do
so, at least once, to end all doubts. I look forward to RogueScience's
return !

tom haggen - 13-8-2004 at 19:29

It's a great shame that so many problems have been troubling roguesci lately. Oh well, I'm sure that the more my knowledge of chemistry grows, the more useful this site will become to me. Perhaps, more useful than roguesci could have been.

nbk2000 - 14-8-2004 at 07:38


That is all well and jolly, nbk, but I do remember two particular instances at's forum where two valued members got banned (aka censored) for expressing thoughts that you yourself considered anti-American (while others may say, justified, albeit exaggerated).

You're confusing OPINION with KNOWLEDGE.

The former are speculations based upon personal experiences, and emotions, and are unprovable conjecture.

The latter is based upon emperical data and reproducible results, and is not subject to conjecture.

OPINION is stating that the earth is flat.

KNOWLEDGE is sailing around the globe.

Leave sailing to the knowledgable, flat-earther.

They weren't banned for their knowledge, but rather their OPINIONs, which was devisive. And both had prior warning and made the decision to be banned by not heeding the warning.

As for eliteforum, you're a fine one to talk. Remember a certain incident you bragged about and stupid enough to provide photos of?

Such a thing would easily come back to haunt you if I was prone to snitching. It's your good luck that I'm not. So as much as I dislike you, I'll not be using that against you, as tempting as it may be.

Though I'm not the only one to know about it, and I can't stop one of them from doing something with it, if one of them should decide to do so.

That's assuming, of course, that you weren't a full o' shit poser, which is just as probable, if not more so. :p

I believe the term "slumming" explains my presence here.

Hey HEY! listen... ...settle down...

Democritus of Abdera - 14-8-2004 at 08:52

Originally posted by nbk2000
I believe the term "slumming" explains my presence here.

that's going too far, to so unfavorably compare a group of curious laymen, amateur and professional scientists with teenagers (both young and old) whose primary interests are loud noises and vicious pranks....

Sarevok - 14-8-2004 at 10:15

teenagers (both young and old) whose primary interests are loud noises and vicious pranks....

This time YOU went too far, Democritus! Instead of attacking NBK (real or not) for what he said, you attacked Roguesci and its members.

Not exactly.

Democritus of Abdera - 14-8-2004 at 11:10

You see, it's only a discriminatory and unwarranted attack if it's a false statement.

However, I was a member, and I read a great many of the threads from beginning to end, and I assert that it's not falsehood.

I assert that my statement is quite true, and therefore falls under the catagory of observation.:D

please remember that it was called the EXPLOSIVES and WEAPONS forum, after all.

And ANOTHER thing.....

Democritus of Abdera - 14-8-2004 at 12:04

Why is everyone debating on the identity of this joker....
Maybe it is, and he won't give the PGP key for plausible deniability later on, maybe a clown just using his tag for some peculiar credibility....who cares?

I mean, who cares if it IS NBK?....or the CIA?...or the NBA?... or FTD?.....or Barney the Purple Frickin Dinosaur!!!...?

I mean C'mon...Vulture? where are ya?

The fact is, if a man came into my house, warmed himself at my fire, sat at my table, ate my food and then proceeded to imply that my wife was ugly, he certainly wouldn't be joining us the next week for Gin Rickey's on the back porch!!....EH?

Will somebody please gimme an Amen!?!

No matter what this guy says, he's NOT slumming, he's movin' on up like the Jeffersons gettin a piggyback from the Flyin NUN!!!


vulture - 14-8-2004 at 12:52

I knew my decision to allow free discussion in this thread would come back to haunt me.


This time YOU went too far, Democritus! Instead of attacking NBK (real or not) for what he said, you attacked Roguesci and its members.

Sarevok, you only like us when you have to eh? Trust me, I know where your loyalties really are.

So I could play the little sniveling bitch and ban both you and NBK for your opinions. :D

However, I know that payback rarely works, contrary to some *cough* right wingers.

Ah well. Thread closed. You guys are only really interested in this board when Roguesci is down. Don't be a bitch about it, admit it. We are the scum of the earth compared to you aryans, aren't we?

[Edited on 14-8-2004 by vulture]