Sciencemadness Discussion Board - How do you mine for minerals?

Looks like a shale to slate to limestone combination.

Does shale come in large crystal form? The shale I have seen are like layers of very fine crystals, like seen on the wikipedia page.

bbartlog - 26-10-2013 at 21:04

The existence of larger crystals suggests a rock that was produced at depth (slow cooling), not at or near the surface - a plutonic rock. Lots of minerals form decent sized crystals under such circumstances. I'd look at the feldspars and pyroxenes just because I know both of those mineral groups are common and have some very dark-colored subtypes...

Chemstudent - 1-11-2013 at 14:15

Sometimes I look at all these crystals on the internet like galena (lead sulfide) and I go "How do I mine for those myself?" Could I just claim any land for mining and find something, or do you have to go to a special area? I'd like to find compounds myself, instead of buying them.

Most rare earth metals and minerals are trapped deep in the ground. Say you did get access to a site, and were able to extract ore; you would then need to chemically/mechanically separate them from the ore. Crystals are a rare find and even if you were to stumble upon something like Opal or Quartz it would for certain not be in you back yard. AND IF you had some kind of mineral deposit on your property, you would absolutely need permits, etc to even think of extracting the minerals. The gov't will want their tax!

Anyways, if you are just interested in making quick money, then forget it. Small time prospecting is done in far off and dangerous areas. Even then you require industrial equipment. If you just want to make crystals and learn perfect upon re-crystallization technique for lab then buy some Copper Sulfate. Bismuth is another fun element to make crystals with.

bfesser - 1-11-2013 at 21:27

Quote: Originally posted by Chemstudent

Most rare earth metals and minerals are trapped deep in the ground.

Did you read that on the back of your morning cereal box? If you don't really know what you're talking about, please just don't post on the topic. Your post deteriorated from there on. Sorry to be so harsh, but the misinformation bothers me a great deal. I'd honestly like to be proven wrong, by you posting citations for your speculation and erroneous generalizations—sadly, I doubt it will happen.

elementcollector1 - 1-11-2013 at 22:33

Quote: Originally posted by bfesser

Wait - so RE metals are primarily found in surface deposits? Not contradicting you here, just interested to know. The two important RE minerals I know of are monazite and xenotime, both of which are seemingly hard to find outside of Chinese mines. I have heard of monazite sand deposits, but have been unable to find any.

bfesser - 2-11-2013 at 09:08

No, I didn't mean to say that rare earth (RE) metals are found primarily in surface deposits. But I think that saying they're only found deep underground is fallacious. As an example (perhaps an exception) to the contrary, I'm aware of the existence of some <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guarapari#History" target="_blank">coastal beaches in Brazil</a> <img src="../scipics/_wiki.png" /> where the sand is composed heavily of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monazite" target="_blank">monazite</a> <img src="../scipics/_wiki.png" /> grains; to the point where the gamma radioactivity is alarmingly high. You probably wouldn't want to sunbathe on this sand every weekend for the rest of your (shortened) life.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvgAx1yIKjg" target="_blank">brazil 2012: sunbathing on radioactive beaches</a> <img src="../scipics/_yt.png" /> (bionerd23)
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSfNxmvnBZk" target="_blank">brazil 2012: gamma spectroscopy of the radioactive beach in guarapari</a> <img src="../scipics/_yt.png" /> (bionerd23)
Not particularly deep: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R748lCp8Fic" target="_blank">Supply of Rare Earth Minerals about to climb</a> <img src="../scipics/_yt.png" />

P.S. If we have any members who happen to live near one of these beaches; I'd pay you to collect and ship a bit of sand for my collection.

MrHomeScientist - 4-11-2013 at 13:33

Quote: Originally posted by bfesser

P.S. If we have any members who happen to live near one of these beaches; I'd pay you to collect and ship a bit of sand for my collection.

As would I. Every now and then I do a search on eBay for monazite sand, because I'd love to do some experiments on separating the different rare earth elements contained within. To a point, at least - some are incredibly hard to separate and would be beyond any home attempts I'm sure. Still would be a fun endeavour.

bfesser - 4-11-2013 at 14:17

Sadly, the eBay samples seem to be always ludicrously priced.

ElizabethGreene - 22-11-2013 at 12:52

"How do I mine for those myself?" Could I just claim any land for mining and find something, or do you have to go to a special area? I'd like to find compounds myself, instead of buying them.

You're not the only one! What you can get depends on where you are.

I live in Middle Tennessee, land of near-infinite limestone. I've made crude Quicklime and hydrated lime from a local interstate road cut.

There are Zinc mines here too, but they are deep and inaccessible to me.

Outside of Tennessee, I harvested coal from a road cut in Beckley West Virginia and Iron Pyrite (small flakes) from a gold creek near Boise, Idaho.

It's not mining per se, but you can also recover useful chemicals from other stuff. I've successfully recovered Gold from electronic scrap and a tiny amount of salts from wood ashes.

Are you in the USA?

Cou - 12-10-2014 at 19:29

Well, even the soil in your backyard is made of various elements... perhaps you could smelt iron by heating it to about 1250 C in a furnace, but i don't know what soil is really made of

[Edited on 13-10-2014 by Cou]

Amos - 12-10-2014 at 19:50

Well, even the soil in your backyard is made of various elements... perhaps you could smelt iron by heating it to about 1250 C in a furnace, but i don't know what soil is really made of

[Edited on 13-10-2014 by Cou]

It differs ENORMOUSLY depending on location, but typically a whole lot of silicates containing group 1 or 2 elements, iron, magnesium, or aluminum, along with all sorts of oxides. That and organic matter in the form of both living and dead organisms.

Cou - 12-10-2014 at 19:59

Quote: Originally posted by No Tears Only Dreams Now

I live in an area of texas with very dark clay soil, and clay soil is mostly iron oxide I think. Should try making a tiny arc furnace to smelt it

hyfalcon - 13-10-2014 at 01:37

When you heat clay you get porcelain.

Amos - 13-10-2014 at 07:31

When you heat clay you get porcelain.

That is an incredibly generalized statement. Porcelain is a kind of fired ceramic that is usually made of kaolin, and only certain minerals can constitute ceramic that can be called porcelain. There are often various additives involed, such as ash, silicon dioxide, or various fluxes to lower the fusion temperature that while not necessarily composing a huge amount of the clay(though sometimes they compose the majority), they are often vital to the function. Heating up some clay containing dirt, even to firing temperatures, usually won't even initiate fusion, much less make porcelain.

Also I should mention that "clay" often just refers to extremely fine soil particles. And most of the minerals that form clay are aluminum silicates; minerals are rarely as simple as binary oxides.

[Edited on 10-13-2014 by No Tears Only Dreams Now]

hyfalcon - 13-10-2014 at 08:24

Sorry, my attempt at being dryly glib.

Amos - 13-10-2014 at 08:28

Sorry, my attempt at being dryly glib.

Yeah, with what you were responding to it really didn't matter; he'll figure out that the world is a complex place on his own.

careysub - 13-10-2014 at 11:34

When you heat clay you get porcelain.

When you heat clay you get brick.

Amos - 13-10-2014 at 12:13

Quote: Originally posted by careysub

When you heat clay you get porcelain.

When you heat clay you get brick.

This is closer. You kind of have to wet it and shape it first. And heat it very slowly and evenly. Not to mention the incredible temperatures you have to reach.

Hawkguy - 13-10-2014 at 13:04

I know that this is less related than what other people are mentioning, but I would highly recommend this if you are just generally interested in the idea of extracting stuff from the ground.
Go into the mountains and find some nice Iron - bearing rocks. Its not hard to tell which ones they are, as they are often rusty, and you'll get an inkling whether or not there's any metal content. Carry them off the mountain (If you are not in a park of course, as then it would be unlawful ). Break them down with a hammer into pea sized rocks, and bake them in some sort of furnace (I just use a charcoal burning brick furnace in the yard). The idea is to reduce the oxides and melt the tiny pieces of iron so they coalesce. Once it cools, you can collect your product and pat yourself on the back or whatever. If you do it in an amateur way like me, you'll get WAY less Iron than you expected, but its still fun.

Texium - 13-10-2014 at 13:05

Quote: Originally posted by No Tears Only Dreams Now

Quote: Originally posted by careysub

When you heat clay you get porcelain.

When you heat clay you get brick.

This is closer. You kind of have to wet it and shape it first. And heat it very slowly and evenly. Not to mention the incredible temperatures you have to reach.

Well, if you live in the Minecraft world it doesn't matter how you heat it. Lumps of clay will magically become perfectly even bricks even if you just burn a couple sticks under them. Ah, if only the world were that simple!

Brain&Force - 13-10-2014 at 14:26

Some places, especially in California, will have mines open to the public (though you may have to pay for admission). There's a big tourmaline mine here. You'd probably be better off just finding rocks in random places and seeing what you can get out of them, as it's cheaper and more fun.

My friend appears to have found a rock that contains antimony, which was an interesting find.

hyfalcon - 13-10-2014 at 16:14

Must be SoCal. There's a couple of big tourmaline mines just north of San Diego that I want to do some dirt grubbing in.

Amos - 13-10-2014 at 16:41

Watermelon Tourmaline is one of my absolute favorites...

diddi - 13-10-2014 at 16:50

I posted here yesterday but all my posts have disappeared. so short version is this: join a gemstone club. they know all. I am a member in my area.

Cou - 14-10-2014 at 12:02

Or make thermite out of it, so the iron melts and falls out

Hawkguy - 14-10-2014 at 20:39

Or make thermite out of it, so the iron melts and falls out

Thermite would become kinda sketch because of all the other stuff in the ore.. I dont know about anywhere else, but in my area there isn't any straight pure Iron/ Oxide dug up... I see you're logic though..

j_sum1 - 14-10-2014 at 21:56

I live in an area of texas with very dark clay soil, and clay soil is mostly iron oxide I think. Should try making a tiny arc furnace to smelt it