Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Name that rock

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diddi - 19-7-2015 at 06:44

oh yeh I am a bit of a minerals collector :)

Morgan - 19-7-2015 at 07:32

Now that you mentioned slag, I was able to find something that kind of looks like my rock, the first photo on this page on the left. Thanks for identifying my other rocks too diddi.
http://meteorites.pdx.edu/meteor_wrong.htm

[Edited on 19-7-2015 by Morgan]

aga - 19-7-2015 at 09:45

Quote: Originally posted by diddi  
oh yeh I am a bit of a minerals collector :)

Dunno if you have Time or inclination, but i'm sure there are many here that would appreciate a step-by-step intro to Rock Identification from an experienced person such as yourself, a-la Blogfast25's intro to Quantum Mechanics.

I'd certainly be very interested.

Magpie - 19-7-2015 at 12:27

Here's an easy one for you:



rock.jpg - 67kB

blogfast25 - 19-7-2015 at 12:59

Slate?

A piece of very old uPVC pipe? :D

aga - 19-7-2015 at 13:46

It's a bit of pyrite/amagamellium/chrotaxinaceous defacate obviously.

Jees ! Slate ! What ever could you be thinking of ?

Edit:

looks like a bit of roofing slate to me as well.

[Edited on 19-7-2015 by aga]

aga - 19-7-2015 at 13:57

As an absolute beginner, all i can see is a flat-ish black rock thing with some white bits on it's surface.

It's not exactly Flat as there appears to be a triangular section seen by the top left hand bit.

There's the remains of a hand attached to the right hand side.

Where would one start in identifying it ?

The colour ?

[Edited on 19-7-2015 by aga]

Magpie - 19-7-2015 at 14:51

Slate it is. It is from a lakeshore beach of slate pieces about that size. Nothing but slate pieces on this beach, all in shades of grey.

blogfast25 - 19-7-2015 at 14:56

Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  
Slate it is. It is from a lakeshore beach of slate pieces about that size. Nothing but slate pieces on this beach, all in shades of grey.


Very valuable in Ole' Blighty but they need to be bigger for that.

But the have nots are starting to use pieces of old uPVC anyway! :D

[Edited on 19-7-2015 by blogfast25]

Morgan - 23-7-2015 at 12:18

This is a heavy rock that is very glittery although the camera didn't capture the green glitter. Part of the green has invaded some of the white crystal in one photo but that's hard to see too. I would guess the white crytals are quartz and that some of the rock is an iron oxide? So I don't know if the green is from iron or copper or both or something else if anyone has an idea.


011.JPG - 142kB012.JPG - 136kB014.JPG - 136kB019.JPG - 139kB

aga - 23-7-2015 at 12:49

Very much Overdone baked Potato.

-OR-

Stab in the dark : Galena.

I recall from a school trip to the Odin Mine in Castleton some local rock samples, and it reminds me of one of those. Mostly they were pushing the 'Blue John' rocks for us to buy.

j_sum1 - 23-7-2015 at 12:49

Green -- my first guess would be copper. My second chromium and my third nickel. Iron won't really figure in it. Ferrous ions oxidise to ferric and so any pastel blue-greens from iron will be lost.

As for what it is, better ask diddi.

aga - 23-7-2015 at 13:01

Galena as i dimly recall is/was Lead ore for Vikings, hence the 'Odin' thing.

Morgan - 23-7-2015 at 14:15

The dark green part is so glittery like goldstone when you move it in light. I had a piece of galena that just looked like lead that was unoxidized or kind of like silicon only heavier.
The other side of this rock has kind of a ferrous sulfate/chalky light green color in places. It's not a very exciting rock I to look at, but it's twinkles.

007.JPG - 147kB021.JPG - 144kB

aga - 23-7-2015 at 14:41

Even Google isn't helping.

The green can't be Fe2+, and the other bits do look coppery, yet also like rust.

Then there's the white bit ...

Random guess: WWII loaded cannon (brass shell casing = copper & tin) that fell to the sea bed for 60 years, decayed quite a lot then was dredged up ?

Magpie - 23-7-2015 at 14:43

chalcopyrite?

aga - 23-7-2015 at 14:50

Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  
chalcopyrite?

What ?!?!

It was all a groundless accusation and she was proven to be a liar in court, and ordered to return the pressure cooker !

How VERY dare you !

Magpie - 23-7-2015 at 15:19

Are you drunk?

chemrox - 23-7-2015 at 17:22

It is really helpful to know where the rock came from. Especially when picture keying. Above are examples of obsidian. Doesn't everyone have that one ingrained? Sorry, couldn't help it.

Morgan - 23-7-2015 at 18:13

I heated a small section of the dark glittery green part outside with a butane torch and saw some green hues added to the flame and the spot I heated glowed kind of like asbestos or vermiculite might have. The spot seems to have shrank or reverted back to the same color as the rest of the rock, that rust color only a little blacker. Either that or the thin layer of green possilbly expanded and jumped off the surface. Maybe the green material was hydrated, there's a tiny green ridge that's higher all around the heated spot
The crystaline material sure sparkles when looking at it under magnefying headgear and the green glitter seems to have grown only on the outside of the rock, or in the cavities.
I wonder if it could just be slag with some sort of copper compound that grew on it or leached out of it? It doesn't respond to a N52 magnet very much, only when suspended with some thread could I see some faint attraction.

I don't know where my father found this rock but he did a lot of rockhounding in Oregon but took some field trips to adjacent states too.

[Edited on 24-7-2015 by Morgan]

diddi - 23-7-2015 at 18:29

@aga
what sort of info would you like to see?

latest green mineral looks to me like botroidal malachite on mixed iron minerals. it is common to get air pockets inside iron minerals onto which the copper mineral crystallises. sometimes called a "vug" like a mini geode but inside a big ore body.

Morgan - 23-7-2015 at 19:23

I saw this druzy malachite that kind of looks like my rock which has some sharp facets or faces mingled in with the sandy looking green glitter.
I typed in botryoidal malachite after the suggestion and happened upon the druzy malachite. So maybe it's a druzy botryoidal malachite.

Malachite Dark Green Sparkly Druzy Crystalline Nugget Natural Mineral Specimen
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/168955423493925013/
https://img1.etsystatic.com/068/1/6556142/il_570xN.754470975...

[Edited on 24-7-2015 by Morgan]

aga - 23-7-2015 at 23:12

Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  
Are you drunk?

Erm, it was possible at the time ...

Rock Collecting sounds fascinating !

Even the words of the language are enchanting :

chalcopyrite ... goldstone ... druzy botryoidal malachite

Quote: Originally posted by diddi  
@aga
what sort of info would you like to see?

Basically, where would one Start in identifying rocks ?

It would be wonderful to be able to pick up a rock and be able to work out it's origin, the processes that made it, what it's composed of and what it would be called.

What started it off (for me) was being told that a rock in the Ngorogoro crater was sedimentary, when it looked rather granite-like to me.

The fact that the crater sits on top of a huge extinct volcano should have been a significant clue.

Not knowing anything about it at all was infuriating.

diddi - 24-7-2015 at 03:08

the term druzy is typically applied to quartz varieties and means thin layer of various sized crystals usually on a host matrix. I cant say I have heard of a druzy malachite, but it does describe the habit I guess, although I would not have used the term. botryoidal habit is "bubbly" so you can see bubble shapes in your sample and on the broken portions there is evidence of banding suggesting that the malachite was deposited in layers, building up the bubble shape.
the sharp facets are crystalline malachite which is very common. it would be difficult to identify the iron minerals without knowing the source. certain mineral tend to occur is particular areas which makes ID easy.

Morgan - 24-7-2015 at 07:33

Thanks again for the identification and descriptions diddi. It's interesting to learn about all the properties of minerals. Here's a few examples of malachite from the Smithsonian I ran across when reading today.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/geophys/malachite...

blargish - 24-7-2015 at 12:03

Cool to see this thread back in business! Thought I might as well show off my own malachite/azurite sample :)

IMG_0598.jpg - 2.2MB


Also, here is an interesting rock that I found at an old volcanic plug a couple years ago. I have an idea of what it may be, but I want to see what others think

Volcanic Plug Rock.jpg - 1.6MB Volcanic Plug Rock 2.jpg - 1.5MB

aga - 24-7-2015 at 15:02

The layers in the bottom left photo are fascinating.

It looks (to me) as if there was a thin tube in a volcano and the molten rock was pushing & melting some other rock stuff up as it went, yet cooled into that form at some point.

Edit:

Or the layered bits are the sedimentary Surface rocks and the lower bit is the last bit of molten volcano rock to buckle it through a small hole/weakness.

[Edited on 24-7-2015 by aga]

[Edited on 24-7-2015 by aga]

diddi - 25-7-2015 at 01:57

nice malachite/azurite. looks like the sort of stuff from chinese mines.
the other specimen looks like chert to me

blargish - 26-7-2015 at 16:24

Yea aga, the white layers and brecciated fragments where what really caught my eye at first.

I believe that the rock is a rheomorphic welded ignimbrite: a rock formed by the deposition of a pyroclastic flow. If I'm correct, the white fragments in it are known as fiamme, which are pumice fragments that were elongated and brecciated due to the overlying hot ash/rocks. The interesting thing for me is that so called "rheomorphic flow" structures can be seen in the rock (notably in the second picture) where the pyroclastic deposit was able to flow in a fluid-like manner.

Diddi, you're right. The malachite/azurite is from china, although I'm uncertain of its exact locality.

[Edited on 27-7-2015 by blargish]

diddi - 26-7-2015 at 19:00

nice volcanic specimen blargish. did you collect it yourself

blargish - 27-7-2015 at 18:37

Yea, I found it a few years back around an old volcanic plug called Giant's Head on Canada's west coast (BC). The whole area is littered with these crazy smooth volcanic bombs which are locally called cannonballs. I'll get a pic of one that I collected if I can find where I put it...

diddi - 27-7-2015 at 23:15

very good. you might have to do some collecting for me :)

diddi - 28-7-2015 at 06:07

heres a pretty pic for you.... crystalline Stibnite (Sb2S3)
this is crushable and dissolves in acids!

Stibnite a (Medium).JPG - 274kB

blargish - 30-7-2015 at 20:42

Wow, that's a solid piece; did you find it yourself? I lack stibnite in my own collection, but it's still one of my favs.

Here's a fragment of one of those volcanic bombs. I believe the black spots are hornblende. It's really smooth; feels almost like it's been machined.

Volcanic Bomb.jpg - 1.4MB

Additionally, here are a couple rocks from a trip to Mt. Vesuvius. The first one is a tephrite (which are found all over the place) and I believe the second to be a leucitite. Both have some nice phenocrysts (augite/leucite in the tephrite, and leucite in the leucitite).

Vesuvius Tephrite.jpg - 1.7MB Vesuvius Leucitite.jpg - 1.6MB

diddi - 30-7-2015 at 21:05

very nice. the stibnite is a purchase. around here there is a lot of massive stibnite, but no xtals :(

not sure that that is a hornblende? the black crystals should be rectangular. yours look spherical?

Hornblende 3 (Medium).JPG - 271kB
local hornblende from Dookie, Victoria, Aust.

blargish - 30-7-2015 at 22:37

A good number of the crystals are bladed and have hexagonal habit as far as I can tell. As for those that don't, I have seen hornblende take on a blocky appearance, in contrast to its classic needly appearance seen in your specimen (really nice btw), similar to pyroxenes in other samples, which can make it very confusing...

Here is just an example from the web; a hornblende porphyritic basalt which appears very similar to my own rock.

Hornblende Basalt Web.jpg - 111kB
source: https://instruct.uwo.ca/earth-sci/200a-001/200lab3.htm

I could be wrong though as I am by no means an expert :P ; it could certainly be pyroxenes or something else. I find it hard to distinguish all the black blocky/rectangular mineral thingies on looks alone. I guess getting a sense of its cleavage would give me an answer, although it would be hard due to the small size of the crystals


[Edited on 31-7-2015 by blargish]

diddi - 31-7-2015 at 03:06

yes, so many of these minerals are both highly variable and part of a spectrum of alterations. I have a number of pieces if that mineral from same location but all quite different.

Eddygp - 31-7-2015 at 05:14

Although I posted this in a separate thread a while ago, it was never completely identified, so here it goes. This rock has been discovered along with other apparently pure, blobby metal fragments coated in a hard red oxide shell (which led me to think that it is iron, but -whaaaat?!- it is not attracted to magnets!!!).


Agost 018.JPG - 693kBAgost 032.JPG - 686kBAgost 021.JPG - 1.2MB

diddi - 31-7-2015 at 05:38

not all iron bearing rocks are magnetic. these are hard to identify without cutting or magnification. #1 cant say? #2 could be an iron stained limestone consecration? #3 looks like moss/lichen on a stone wall ?

Eddygp - 23-8-2015 at 03:30

Quote: Originally posted by diddi  
not all iron bearing rocks are magnetic. these are hard to identify without cutting or magnification. #1 cant say? #2 could be an iron stained limestone consecration? #3 looks like moss/lichen on a stone wall ?


#2 is most probably pure metal/metal oxide, due to very high density compared to limestone. By the way, those blobs were found separate from the rock.
#3 is not lichen, also iron
The iron mineral is found along crevices and grooves in the limestone rock, as well as those blobs such as #2.

[Edited on 23-8-2015 by Eddygp]

diddi - 23-8-2015 at 03:33

yeh, they are really hard to work out by pics. sorry.
where are they from

[Edited on 23-8-2015 by diddi]

Morgan - 7-12-2015 at 08:03

I found this "rock" in the middle of some railroad tracks when walking this morning near some bluffs. It's very attracted to a magnet and heavy. I didn't see any slag pictures in Google images that resembled it but the way it formed looks curious. It's very friable so it seems odd that the edges are still in one piece or that it doesn't looked like it could have been knocked around too much if it fell off a train. I didn't see any other pieces like this rock when I looked for more.


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aga - 7-12-2015 at 11:27

At a guess, i'd say it was iron & lubricant oil that has built up over a long period of time on a train.

Iron & oils form a kind of rubbery material over a long period of time, which might be why some of it remained intact when it fell off.

Break a small piece off and try to set fire to it.

Morgan - 7-12-2015 at 12:01

It didn't smoke or reduce at all when heated with a butane torch - it just glowed after heating for a few seconds. It almost looks like fine iron grit that has fused together somehow while being in a draft or from gravity. A woman I passed on the trail said it looked like a Christmas tree, I think because of the way it looks swept as it was formed.
Trains drop sand under their wheels sometimes to provide traction when starting and I wonder if fine metal particles from the rail could collect or fuse together this way after being abraded off? Or maybe the rock is some sort of ore or scrap slag-like material that just fell off the train but it was right in the middle of the tracks. As you say it seems like something that formed under the train and fell off though but I don't know.

aga - 7-12-2015 at 12:33

Brake residues ?

Iron grinding against iron a lot maybe - the heat could fuse the particles, possibly.

I googled 'Train Brake Turd' and there were no relevant results.

Morgan - 7-12-2015 at 13:38

Maybe it's something inbetween a stalagtite and stalagmite, if there's a word for one that forms in the horizontal from iron particle ejecta.

aga - 7-12-2015 at 13:49

Aggregate particulate matter or something like that ?

Morgan - 7-12-2015 at 14:16

It looks like iron particles that have been sintered or another thing that comes to mind is some sort of likeness to an electrode growth that grew in solution but that's a long shot.

chemrox - 7-12-2015 at 17:54

I would call this discussion an "igneous intrusion" (even if it flows along near the surface...)
CRBG- look it up

IrC - 7-12-2015 at 21:47

Morgan keep it away from water and never feed it after midnight.

diddi - 8-12-2015 at 00:03

it does look industrial to me...
that sort of dendritic habit is common in industrial treatments of minerals

Morgan - 8-12-2015 at 04:56

Industrial is a good word to describe it. Another comment from someone was that it looked like a feather or to me the plural feathers the way it's layered.

And then of course it could be a meteorite. ha
"The Monolith Monsters tells the story of a large meteorite that crashes in the desert and explodes into hundreds of black fragments with strange properties. When those fragments are exposed to water, they grow very large and tall. The fragments also begin to slowly petrify some of the inhabitants of a nearby small Southern California desert town. The story that unfolds becomes one of human survival against an encroaching unnatural disaster, that if not stopped, could become a national ecological nightmare that could pose a possible threat to all of humanity."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Monolith_Monsters

"Bits and pieces of the universe"
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x22numj_monolith-monsters_s...

Broken Gears - 8-12-2015 at 05:10

Morgan, your railroad rock is iron filings from a angle grinder or a similar tool. The sparks fuse back together and forms rocks like that.

IMG_1611.JPG - 2MB

Too bad I just broke of the rock on my grinding machine, otherwise I could show you one just like your picture, just smaller.

Morgan - 8-12-2015 at 06:32

It could be this. Thanks for the tip.

Viewer comment.
RAIL GRINDER GROOVING A ETCH INTO THE BALL OF THE RAIL AND REMOVING SLIPPAGE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-dRW_yaqRk#t=2m35s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7z3edFLjkBI

[Edited on 8-12-2015 by Morgan]

Morgan - 8-12-2015 at 10:45

Oddly, I found the tail end of my railroad rail rock today when walking along the tracks this morning. And the tracks had shiny striated marks on the top of them where it looked like they had been recently abraded, not your smooth typical rail.
Now with the tail end attached, the fused steel particles seem to take on the abstract appearance of a fossilized fish.


"Unlike some other uses of iron and steel, railway rails are subject to very high stresses and are made of very high quality steel."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_profile

008.JPG - 301kB 009.JPG - 240kB

[Edited on 9-12-2015 by Morgan]

diddi - 8-12-2015 at 21:56

re the industrial look: heres an example of aluminium cooled in a pot at the refinery.

Aluminium 1a (Medium).JPG - 264kB

Aluminium 1c.jpg - 775kB

Morgan - 9-12-2015 at 05:35

The other day I came across this magnesium look when looking for my mystery rock in Google images.
http://www.britannica.com/technology/magnesium-processing

Morgan - 9-12-2015 at 10:04

As a followup to the hardened mass of steel sparks is a photo of the track from which it presumedly came and some other shots of the rails that caught my eye.
A long, slow train with molten sulfur and other stuff went by shortly after taking these photographs.

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diddi - 9-12-2015 at 12:07

the magnesium shows very similar habit, Morgan. Have you looked at all the other types of rocks? I have found more than 10 interesting minerals on the tracks near me place. including magnesite, axinite, epidote, calcite, pyrite...

the marks do look a lot like a grinder has been used.

Morgan - 9-12-2015 at 15:57

I held some black glittery rocks up the camera but I didn't photo any. There're some green rocks and faint pinks and a lot of granitic looking gravel. I tried to look for something really unusual. It seemed like some of the railroad track rocks were worth some study, but being so commonplace ...
A nearly solid block of compressed sheet metal ~75 cm square that apparently fell off a train was so heavy it didn't budge in the least.
That one rail photo with the chip in it looks sort of like the rail has or is made in two layers of steel the way there's an air gap separation in the side.

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diddi - 9-12-2015 at 16:44

nice train!
glittery bits may be pyrite
look for rocks that have rust around them. pyrite and marcasite

take a magnifier with you to see what is around
granites are often host to many rare microminerals

Morgan - 15-12-2015 at 12:10

I walked in the opposite direction on the tracks for quite some distance and came upon more "sintered" rocks. This large piece weighed quite a bit and looked larger than the camera perspective. The last photo of it had a fine grain appearance. There was also a large/huge piece of carbon brake pad near the tracks shaped like the curve would fit over a train wheel. There were filaments of what looked like asbestos in the brake pad.

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aga - 15-12-2015 at 13:01

Ferrosilicon/silicate from the asbestos brake shoe and the steel of the train wheel ?

Do not Eat.

Edit:

Nice photos !

Photos really do brighten the place up.

[Edited on 15-12-2015 by aga]

diddi - 15-12-2015 at 13:07

that looks like left over slag from a thermite they use to join rails. look for blood red sandy lumps which I think is related.

Morgan - 15-12-2015 at 13:59

There were these metal cylinder posts right next to the tracks along with some shavings and granular flecks of metal. Also a fragment of brake pad probably with fibers in it although not the beautiful curved giant piece I found a few days later. And a great blue heron. The last train I saw had hydrogen peroxide, methyl chloride, LPG, phosphoric acid, hydrochloric acid, and other stuff I can't remember.

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[Edited on 15-12-2015 by Morgan]

Morgan - 15-12-2015 at 15:19

Some of the cliffs where exposed are orange but as you go down towards the bay there are patches where the quartz sand has been washed enough to become white it seems. The Gulf of Mexico across the bay used to have beautiful dunes of sugar white sand. Now the beach is flat for the most part.


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Eddygp - 27-12-2015 at 08:52

Quote: Originally posted by Eddygp  
Although I posted this in a separate thread a while ago, it was never completely identified, so here it goes. This rock has been discovered along with other apparently pure, blobby metal fragments coated in a hard red oxide shell (which led me to think that it is iron, but -whaaaat?!- it is not attracted to magnets!!!).

You can see the photos for this post, which is on page 6 of this thread.
I think this might be it! Ferrihydrite?

http://www.mindat.org/min-1493.html

Morgan - 27-12-2015 at 10:44

Here's some rocks found at the shoreline that were kind of a pretty blue when wet. I wonder what makes them blue? The first photo they were dry but all were found submerged in the lapping waves.

001.JPG - 443kB 005.JPG - 482kB 008.JPG - 271kB

[Edited on 27-12-2015 by Morgan]

Morgan - 27-12-2015 at 12:49

Quote: Originally posted by diddi  
that looks like left over slag from a thermite they use to join rails. look for blood red sandy lumps which I think is related.


Well I did find evidence of some thermite activity, lots of large chunks of sand that was red with a neat layer of white sand . And there were these wooden sticks about and what looks like iron that had hardened in the sand mold somehow. I brought home a tiny piece of the red oxide stained sand and a piece of the railroad track. I wonder how long railroad track lasts generally? All the thermite paraphernalia was buried under a pile of rocks near the tracks, as if a half-hearted attempt was made to neaten the area. There were lots of large chunks of hardened half red and half white sand and those iron spike shapes probably from the mold.

002.JPG - 426kB001.JPG - 416kB

diddi - 27-12-2015 at 15:14

well that solves that one :) same red stuff I collected recently. I reckon the thermite was not contained well enough and a blowhole has caused the feathery looking pieces.

Smash up one of your blue chunks and see the texture and hardness. they appear sandy and course from the pics and probably somewhat soft.

Morgan - 27-12-2015 at 16:46

I think this feathery thing is from the railroad grinding sparks/sintered 3D printing method and not from a thermite process.
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/files.php?pid=430509&...
Here is something that looks like the red sandstone material I found.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi6q7fKgqkE#t=1m20s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TstoubOQImQ#t=2m59s

Here's a nice anvil made from a railroad segment.
http://static1.squarespace.com/static/54ecd99fe4b0bc2e9aa70e...

diddi - 27-12-2015 at 19:05

yeh looks pretty right.

Morgan - 31-12-2015 at 20:37

A few brief introductory tidbits ...
Death Rocks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2xPQ36kfOY

diddi - 1-1-2016 at 00:41

gotta get me some hutchinsonite. got all the others :)

Morgan - 15-1-2016 at 07:33

Maybe of interest.
Life's Rocky Start
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/earth/life-rocky-start.html

mayko - 15-1-2016 at 09:56

Quote: Originally posted by Morgan  
Maybe of interest.
Life's Rocky Start
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/earth/life-rocky-start.html


A friend of mine had that on the teevee just last night! I was excited; I've thought Robert Hazen had a really interesting perspective on biogeochemistry since I read the original "Life's Rocky Start" in Scientific American.

Another interesting article by him is this one, which discusses the changes in mineral diversity over geologic time, in particular the impact of biota on the mineral world (emphasis mine):


Quote:

The mineralogy of terrestrial planets evolves as a consequence of a range of physical, chemical,
and biological processes. In pre-stellar molecular clouds, widely dispersed microscopic dust particles contain approximately a dozen refractory minerals that represent the starting point of planetary mineral evolution. Gravitational clumping into a protoplanetary disk, star formation, and the resultant heat- ing in the stellar nebula produce primary refractory constituents of chondritic meteorites, including chondrules and calcium-aluminum inclusions, with ~60 different mineral phases. Subsequent aque- ous and thermal alteration of chondrites, asteroidal accretion and differentiation, and the consequent formation of achondrites results in a mineralogical repertoire limited to ~250 different minerals found in unweathered meteorite samples. Following planetary accretion and differentiation, the initial mineral evolution of Earth’s crust
depended on a sequence of geochemical and petrologic processes, including volcanism and degassing, fractional crystallization, crystal settling, assimilation reactions, regional and contact metamorphism, plate tectonics, and associated large-scale fluid-rock interactions. These processes produced the first continents with their associated granitoids and pegmatites, hydrothermal ore deposits, metamorphic terrains, evaporites, and zones of surface weathering, and resulted in an estimated 1500 different mineral species. According to some origin-of-life scenarios, a planet must progress through at least some of these stages of chemical processing as a prerequisite for life. Biological processes began to affect Earth’s surface mineralogy by the Eoarchean Era (~3.85–3.6
Ga), when large-scale surface mineral deposits, including banded iron formations, were precipitated under the influences of changing atmospheric and ocean chemistry. The Paleoproterozoic “Great Oxida- tion Event” (~2.2 to 2.0 Ga), when atmospheric oxygen may have risen to >1% of modern levels, and the Neoproterozoic increase in atmospheric oxygen, which followed several major glaciation events, ultimately gave rise to multicellular life and skeletal biomineralization and irreversibly transformed Earth’s surface mineralogy. Biochemical processes may thus be responsible, directly or indirectly, for most of Earth’s 4300 known mineral species. The stages of mineral evolution arise from three primary mechanisms: (1) the progressive separation
and concentration of the elements from their original relatively uniform distribution in the pre-solar nebula; (2) an increase in range of intensive variables such as pressure, temperature, and the activities of H2
O, CO2 , and O2 ; and (3) the generation of far-from-equilibrium conditions by living systems.
The sequential evolution of Earth’s mineralogy from chondritic simplicity to Phanerozoic complex- ity introduces the dimension of geologic time to mineralogy and thus provides a dynamic alternate approach to framing, and to teaching, the mineral sciences.


Hazen, R. M., Papineau, D., Bleeker, W., Downs, R. T., Ferry, J. M., McCoy, T. J., … Yang, H. (2008). Mineral evolution. American Mineralogist, 93(11-12), 1693–1720. doi:10.2138/am.2008.2955


Attachment: Hazen et al. - 2008 - Mineral evolution.pdf (4.6MB)
This file has been downloaded 806 times

crystal grower - 23-2-2016 at 04:03

Hello do you have any idea what this stuff could be ?
it´s partially glassy and the rest is porous.
It´s quite hard but not very heavy.
And it isn´t dissolving in common acids (I tried HCl, H2SO4, HNO3)

unknown.JPG - 1.7MBunknown2.JPG - 2MBunknown3.JPG - 1.7MBunknown4.JPG - 1.9MB

IrC - 23-2-2016 at 06:30

Looks like some form of common opal, or mix of clear, white base opal, creamy opal, opal with various impurities. Possibly a sedimentary deposited form of SiO2·nH2O. If so it explains why it resists the acids you tried, you need HF (or hot NaOH?). Just guessing but it looks nearly identical to a form I found near the Hieroglyphic Mountains in Arizona. An entire side of a mountain all the way down into the valley of the stuff. They were completing the dam project and before I could do much digging and investigating the whole area became part of the bottom of what is now Lake Pleasant. Bastards. I never learned how to use scuba gear. Decades ago the whole area was loaded with incredible amounts of cyanide in leach beds by an old timer known to the area as 'Cyanide Harry'. No I never went swimming in that lake but many do. Either the state officials in charge of the project did not know or were not concerned as no cleanup was ever done of that valley before they flooded it. Off topic but a little bit of history that may interest someone. One of the many reasons I only drink bottled spring water, you just cannot trust municipal water supplies.

crystal grower - 23-2-2016 at 06:57

Thanks for answer.
I also thought that it is opal but I'm not 100% sure becouse opal isn't a common mineral in the locality where I have found it.
And the porous material looks like some vulcanic rock ( maybe ryolite??) but the locality where I have found it is core mountain.
Maybe it could be some artificial material but what the hell it could be:( :D?
So I'm confused a little bit about it:).

diddi - 23-2-2016 at 15:39

I am not sure that it is opal ("potch" - opal without coloured bits) . potch tends to be amorphous, but this is clearly broken crystals with a cleavage inside the crystal that resembles broken opal (and many other materials). I think more investigation is needed here. and also potch is very soft. easy ground away with sand paper, so I am tending to discount opal as very likely. I can see a number of places where there is evidence of 120 degree facet angles suggesting perhaps it is a badly smashed quartz cluster on some sort of matrix. there is also a greenish looking material that has a "bubbly" looking habit. this may be prehnite which is known to associate with quartz. if the location is known, see if prehnite is typical to the area. the material is far to porous for rhyolite, btw.

IrC - 23-2-2016 at 16:11

Looked up close at all 4 pics again and in some areas I want to agree with diddi but in others like the smooth rounded areas in pic4 I don't. Unless some process in nature could form such smooth rounded areas in what is actually a crystal structure. Very tough call when one cannot hold it in hand. The Opal I found years ago was a milky white with some places trending to clear unlike these pictures. Seems he could break off a piece in one of the smooth rounded areas and look at the exposed surfaces for indications of actually being a crystal structure. As was stated in another post trying to determine minerals is a hard call from nothing but images. Will prehnite resist all the acids he tried?

diddi - 24-2-2016 at 04:06

not sure about the prehnite with acid, but I can find some to try. yeh, it is very tricky to tell anything much without having a good look and to feel the texture, density etc. water wear will soon cause that sort of rounding, and prehnite has a natural round habit anyway, so a bit of weathering could do the trick. it would be interesting to crack it open or cut it.

hyfalcon - 24-2-2016 at 05:08

In pic 1, is that a small selenite rose in the the lower left of the specimen, that I see? I'm not sure, but I don't think that would react with those acids either would it?

I get the impression of a shattered vug collapse followed by hydrothermal deposits.

[Edited on 24-2-2016 by hyfalcon]

Morgan - 24-2-2016 at 05:12

Quote: Originally posted by Morgan  
A few brief introductory tidbits ...
Death Rocks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2xPQ36kfOY


Another sneaky death rock in the news.
http://www.nbcnews.com/health/cancer/court-orders-johnson-jo...

[Edited on 24-2-2016 by Morgan]

crystal grower - 24-2-2016 at 06:32

Quote: Originally posted by hyfalcon  
In pic 1, is that a small selenite rose in the the lower left of the specimen, that I see? I'm not sure, but I don't think that would react with those acids either would it?

I get the impression of a shattered vug collapse followed by hydrothermal

deposits.

[Edited on 24-2-2016 by hyfalcon]

It's not selenite because the whole specimen is pretty hard.
When I put a piece into fire it was glowing with yellow-orange colour and the edges has rounded.
And it doesn't react even with hot HCl (prehnite should react as far as I know).
+It looks more like some glass then crystals.
I add some detail images .

IMAG0134.jpg - 863kBIMAG0135.jpg - 873kBIMAG0136.jpg - 888kB

diddi - 24-2-2016 at 12:03



IMAG0135.jpg - 762kB

crystal grower - 25-2-2016 at 01:01

Quote: Originally posted by diddi  



What did u mark here?

diddi - 25-2-2016 at 03:08

it says on the picture

crystal grower - 25-2-2016 at 03:32

No it isn't calcite because it doesn't react with HCl.
I'm not sure if it's barite, it looks like cracked glass or something similiar, I don't think that it's crystal structure.
Is there any good test on baryte (beside its density)?

IrC - 25-2-2016 at 12:35

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birefringence

If it was Calcite this property should be evident.

crystal grower - 27-2-2016 at 01:24

So what are your conclusions about this rock?:)
I know it's hard to tell from an image but I want to know your final opinions anyway.
Thanks.

elementcollector1 - 9-3-2016 at 20:12

Went up to Lake Erie today to find these curious things:



They're naturally that green, as far as I can tell. But what are they? I noticed quite a few lava-rocks on the beach as well, if that helps.

EDIT: Close-up of a few of the rocks.



[Edited on 3-10-2016 by elementcollector1]

diddi - 9-3-2016 at 21:20

I am going with epidote rich unakite :)

Morgan - 16-7-2016 at 13:28

Lots of little fun facts about our tiniest rocks and the global impact of what we're doing. Quite an informative documentary really.
"Selling sand to the Arabs"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nRP9TQ7uW8&feature=yout...
"Desert sand is the wrong kind of sand."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nRP9TQ7uW8&feature=yout...

[Edited on 16-7-2016 by Morgan]

Morgan - 4-9-2016 at 07:27

Some aspects of mica, interesting to see the source and how it's mined.
The Ugly Face of Beauty
https://rtd.rt.com/films/the-ugly-face-of-beauty/#.V8skHbz5K...

mayko - 18-4-2017 at 09:29

Quote: Originally posted by mayko  
Quote: Originally posted by Morgan  
Maybe of interest.
Life's Rocky Start
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/earth/life-rocky-start.html


A friend of mine had that on the teevee just last night! I was excited; I've thought Robert Hazen had a really interesting perspective on biogeochemistry since I read the original "Life's Rocky Start" in Scientific American.

Another interesting article by him is this one, which discusses the changes in mineral diversity over geologic time, in particular the impact of biota on the mineral world (emphasis mine):



Looks like Hazen and company have another publication on this subject!


Quote:

Geologists have identified about 200 minerals that formed due to the hustle and bustle of human activity. Many of these unintentionally formed minerals appeared on Earth during the past two centuries, a blip in the timescale of thousands to millions of years that geologists typically work with.

[...]


“We are inadvertently forming new minerals all the time,” says Marcus J. Origlieri, a coauthor on Hazen’s paper and an expert on rare minerals at the University of Arizona. Origlieri notes that many of the 208 minerals were only recently discovered in mining tunnels and smelters left over from Cold War-era uranium extraction and processing.
“Because the mines have been sitting idle without any forced airflow, the humidity conditions are probably ripe for some of these things to form that wouldn’t have formed otherwise,” says Anthony R. Kampf, a curator emeritus at the Natural History Museum of Los Angeles County. He identified more than two dozen of the minerals on Hazen’s list.



http://cen.acs.org/articles/95/i15/Minerals-formed-due-peopl...

I haven't read the article yet, but it looks interesting!

Attachment: On the mineralogy of the Anthropocene Epoch.pdf (1.6MB)
This file has been downloaded 625 times


Σldritch - 14-5-2017 at 02:16

I found these close to a galena mineralisation. It looks like someone stuck some gum to the rock. Im think it is wurtzite or quartz. Copper scratches some parts of it while others scratch glass. Maybe a mixture? Clearly i have no idea.

DSC_0236.JPG - 2.5MB DSC_0239.JPG - 2.5MB

mayko - 13-6-2018 at 20:17

Here's some rock flour from Alaska; I gathered this from a river when I visited with my family in the autumn. The water was a weird muddy grey with a suspension of this stuff, which is finely ground rock pulverized by glacial action:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_flour

IMG_20171030_rockFlour.jpg - 182kB

elementcollector1 - 13-6-2018 at 21:21

Neat! As for the tan/clear rock above, I'm beginning to think it's chalcedony or something similar - quartz doesn't react appreciably with many acids. Try NaOH and see if that changes?

Demandred - 27-6-2021 at 09:08

Quote: Originally posted by diddi  
heres a pretty pic for you.... crystalline Stibnite (Sb2S3)
this is crushable and dissolves in acids!


How would you go about purifying it?

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