## Question about ETN synthesis

Hellbat - 23-2-2014 at 04:20

Hello guys, I've got a question about the synthesis of ETN.
I found this one in the internet, but I'm a bit confused because they use ubw and pbv mixed. If I take 1 ubw for 1 gram, how many ml of H2SO4 do I have to use? 18.4? That would be a bit little, wouldn't it?
Or, do you have another synthesis for me? I want to use as little acid as possible for a big amount of erythritol. So, if it would be better to use the mixed acid method, that would be Ok, too.

I hope you can help me.

Best regards
Hellbat

roXefeller - 23-2-2014 at 04:47

How much erythritol are you planning to use?

For acid, the volume specified requires a concentration specified. You can look up strength/density tables for each acid to find the grams each mL is for a concentration. Although you may have to determine this from the specific gravity. Then the grams of pure acid comes from multiplying the concentration, which is typically a weight fraction unless stated otherwise.

With grams in hand do the stoich to reach the amount of erythritol required. Let us know how much erythritol you want to use and the amount of acid you have.
Have a good day.

Hellbat - 23-2-2014 at 05:33

Well, the concentration is specified on the site: 98%.
But, understand me: If I have got something like:
-1 ubw hydrazine
-2 ubw ammonium chlorate
, I know that I have to the double amount of of NH4CLO4.
But, if it would say something like:
-9 pbv hydrazine
-2 ubw ammonium chlorate
, then I can't do that. I could use 2g of NH4ClO4 and 9L of hydrazine, or only 9ml. Or what do you mean?
I don't understand all words you used, could you please explain it a bit easier?

I plan to start with 15g of erythritol.

hissingnoise - 23-2-2014 at 06:25

 Quote: I plan to start with 15g of erythritol.

Properly nitrated, you should get about an ounce of material with close to twice the explosive power of TNT . . . ?
That's more than enough to maim or kill when handled improperly!

'Not something to rush into without a complete understanding of the nitration process?

Hellbat - 23-2-2014 at 07:03

Man, that's the energetic materials board! I think everyone here knows the risks. And, I could also divide everything by 2 or 5.

[Edited on 23-2-2014 by Hellbat]

roXefeller - 23-2-2014 at 10:55

Not everyone here understands ALL the risks. This man (https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=22...) recorded his accident with the SAME material you are attempting, ETN. His isn't the only accident that has occurred with ETN (https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=16...). This is a subforum for discussing this controversial topic, but it doesn't give free license to any assertions. In general we are all learning more risks with time, though many are far ahead of the pack. hissingnoise's point was you don't quite have a strong grasp of the work behind the scenes of a synthesis to start a ETN nitration at the quantity of 15grams.

And given this, we are trying to enforce a rule of the forum not to spoonfeed you enough information for you to go forward and harm yourself. I understand what you are saying about ubw and pbv, but you should easily understand what I said before you continue with the ETN nitration, it is simple chemistry arithmetic that is the language of this discipline. I'd love to explain it to you better, as you requested, but since you chose to ask it on the EM forum I don't want to risk your harm. You're going to need to lookup all the words you don't understand. Without that basis you aren't going to go forward intelligibly.

Hellbat - 23-2-2014 at 12:27

I don't understand these words in English. I'm actaully a quite experienced chemist, but I can't do these calculations on my own because I don't know where I have to use excesses. For example, the sulfuric acid should bind the created water, and I don't know how much I need for 1ml of water.
This guy with the accident boiled something, I won't do so.

Edit: Ok, I tried to unterstand a bit of what you said. H2SO4 density is 1.84g/ml so 18.4pbv are 33.86 ubw or how do I have to understand you?

[Edited on 23-2-2014 by Hellbat]

roXefeller - 23-2-2014 at 13:10

Thank you for looking into the H2SO4. Given what you found, have a look at this link (https://sites.google.com/site/msexplosives/e/picric-acid) at the H2SO4 line and comment with what you think the author is going for.
plante1999 - 23-2-2014 at 15:17

I normally don't post in the EM sub-forum, but I think I have to.

2g of an energetic material can blow an hand easily, 15g would give 30g of material, which would easily kill. Another consideration is that ETN is far from a safe secondary and is fairly sensitive. Last but not least, try to find a properly made procedure for dangerous material.

Turner - 23-2-2014 at 16:28

I have heard a story of a ski patrolman being no more than 12 feet from a 2 lb cast pentolite charge detonating in the snow, he kept all limbs, don't know about his hearing though, not to say blasting caps aren't finger shredders, High Explosives themselves (disregarding shrapnel) are very powerful in a relatively small radius proximity, but the shock wave loses a lot of energy in a pretty short distance because the detonation is so fast and sharp.

[Edited on 24-2-2014 by Turner]

bfesser - 23-2-2014 at 16:43

Hellbat, this is not a forum for requesting recipes to explosives. Go read a book. [closed]