Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Paralyzing Substance

DeusExMachina - 5-1-2003 at 11:19

For those of you that watch discovery channel (not madscientist: D) you'll know what I'm talking about. If you've seen on TV people in the jungle with blow pipes and blow out darts and shoot animals, the animal that gets shot gets poisoned or paralyzed. Does anyone know what the subtance that is most commonly used for this is called? Maybe provide a link to some information about it? I've searched and found nothing.

Rhadon - 5-1-2003 at 13:58

Curare and strychnin (alkaloids) are used for that purpose.

In general, you could use any poison which is potent enough and fast enough, but not all of them will paralyze the victim before killing him.

DeusExMachina - 5-1-2003 at 14:04

ya, I know that not all of them will paralyze the animal first. I was just trying to make it easier for people to understand. Thanks for your help

DeusExMachina - 7-1-2003 at 14:05

http://www.botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/n/nuxvom08.html


thats something for curare (it has a different name but when I searched it, it told me to go to this page for it

PHILOU Zrealone - 26-2-2003 at 06:12

A lot of quaternary ammonium hydroxydes have paralysing effect!
NH4OH< Et4NOH < Me4NOH < Iprop4NOH < (CH3-CO-CH2)4NOH = (CH2=CH-CH2)4NOH
You may conclude that:
(Ar-CH2)4NOH will also be a strong one

The (CH2=CH-CH2)4NOH is found to be the major ingredient of anemon toxin to paralyse fishes!

unionised - 1-11-2003 at 14:39

That web page is about strychnos which gives rise to strychnine, a convulsant poison. Curare comes from a different plant (chondodendron tormentosum) and causes death by relaxing the muscles.
Strychnine is not a quaternary ammonium compound but curare, or rather tubocurarine, is. For a long time it was thought to have 2 quaternary groups in the molecule. This spawned a theory about its mode of action which, in turn, gave rise to some useful drugs. In fact, it turns out that they were mistaken, but the drugs are still used.
On the subject of quaternary amines, ammonium hydroxide can barely be said to exist. The 2 quaternary ammonium ions, cholinium and N-methyl atropinium have opposite effects on the nervous system.

PHILOU Zrealone - 24-5-2004 at 16:36

Despite its barely existence...NH3.H2O when injected in the body has real toxic effects...which besides burns are catatony...
:o:o:o
It is one of the more accessible toxic stuff.

When I said a lot of ammonium quaternary...it of course implicitely means there are exceptions...but the ones I have written are indeed true paralysants.
Quite easy to synthetise for average organo chemist.
:o:o:o:o

paralyzing effect

hornek - 17-7-2004 at 09:57

As I know, the paralyzing staff using in zoo's for paralyzing animals is nicotin acid.

unionised - 17-7-2004 at 13:29

Could you elaborate on that a bit please?
The last I heard was that they used potent opiates to tranquilise animals in zoos.

Nevermore - 21-7-2004 at 15:04

Quote:
Originally posted by hornek
As I know, the paralyzing staff using in zoo's for paralyzing animals is nicotin acid.


sound strange at me, nicotinic acid should be toxic and now really show paralyzing effects at low (non lethal) doses..

gil - 14-1-2007 at 14:42

frogs,deus gratia.Frogs.

Sauron - 14-1-2007 at 17:22

The active compound in curare is d-tubocurarine, q.v.

strychnine and brucine are alkaloids from Nux vomica.

A modern arrow poison used by bow hunters against medium game is succinylcholine. Also used in anaesthesia.

You will certainly want to look into the physiological role of choline in neurotransmission if you want to understand the toxic action of quaternary ammonium salts.

Get a good text on anaesthesia and you will learn a lot. Any anaesthatist will tell you, there are 100 steps from consciousness to death and in general anaesthesia you are brought to somewhere in the last 5 steps. You understand ED50 vs LD50? Normally in pharmacology the effective does is lower than the lethal dose. But in the case of anaesthetics the reverse is true. Scary stuff.

Sauron - 14-1-2007 at 17:31

You might also want to look into tetradotoxin, the toxic principle of the puffer fish (Japanese fugu) used by ninja assassins for centuries. As fugu is a delicacy in Japanese cuisine, chefs who prepare fugu are specially trained and licensed. Accidents still happen. Abbreviation TTX

The same toxin is one of the main ingredients in zombi dust in Haiti.

We also might mention saxitoxin and related substances from the red-tide dinoflagellates.

And the bufotoxins from various species of tree frog.

But you really ought to get up to speed on physiological chemistry and biochem in order to grasp the mechanisms by which these operate.

[Edited on 16-1-2007 by Sauron]

gil - 14-1-2007 at 17:55

In fact,talkin about it,long time ago i had a total anesthesia,surgery right knee.At final stages I regained
cosciusness,I mean fully awake, coul hear... That's it:I couldn't move a finger,or open my eyes,I couldn't
take a breath in or make a noise.But my brain was fully awake,as I'm now.How long for,Hard to tell.Panic set in,then I felt the pressure from the oxigen mask on my face,the flow of air filling my lungs and relaxed a bit,knowing I was looked after,but still totally paralized,incapable to breath,I remember clearly a second
oxigen intake then I must have passed out again.I woke up in bed.Scary!Scary one.

Sauron - 14-1-2007 at 18:13

A little scop would have had you less aware of your situation.

gil - 15-1-2007 at 06:45

Whath? Scopolamina?Or scopolamilva?Or scopolavanoni?
Ithappened at the end, when patient get revived. 30 or 60 seconds the most. Hard to say

YT2095 - 15-1-2007 at 07:18

tetradotoxin is another IIRC.

edit: sorry, I didn`t see someone already mentioned it 1`st time around..

[Edited on 15-1-2007 by YT2095]

although to make this post worth it, clostridium botulin toxin also works (botox).

[Edited on 15-1-2007 by YT2095]

Misanthropy - 15-1-2007 at 17:31

The -onium compounds. Not sure if that's what Phillou was referring to...

~50mg Dantrolene leaves one quite unable to move over the weekend! :P

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dantrolene

Sauron - 15-1-2007 at 18:51

Such as hemicholinium-3 for example?

A specialized acetylcholinesterase inhibitor

gil - 16-1-2007 at 07:26

Quote:
Originally posted by Misanthrop

~50mg Dantrolene leaves one quite unable to move over the weekend! :p



Better a good session whith 2-cleavaged-(nonconiugated)-Bicycled Buttanone(mettil-penein-Ether Esther) strontium Culactone!
Done properly over W.end would leave not paralized butQuite in a state!Specially if There's low tolerance to the stuff! Gettin' rare lately!

[Edited on 16-1-2007 by gil]