Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Stabilized Chlorine Dioxide

sparkgap - 28-6-2005 at 06:56

The other day, I purchased a newly released mouthwash to try if it does work on halitosis. I took a look at the ingredients and it said "Stabilized Chlorine Dioxide". Now, I knew that ClO<sub>2</sub> is supposed to be a gas, so I did some research (thanks, Google), and from what I've read thus far, it's supposedly a buffered chlorite solution that gradually releases its intended cargo. It's apparently a pretty darn good bactericide and viricide, and that its oxidizing ability helps curb the sulfur compounds that are usually halitosis culprits.

Now I want to ask everyone else: do you have any experience with this stuff, and could it be possible that we can (ab)use this substance in the name of Mad Science? :D

sparky (^_^)

P.S. So far, so good, if I am to believe yesterday's date. ;)

12AX7 - 28-6-2005 at 11:48

Hm, it can't possibly be too strong of a solution.

I don't know specifically how they'd stabilize it. ClO2 does seem like it would decompose over time, as OCl-.

Oh, and how well does it work? :)

Tim

[Edited on 6-28-2005 by 12AX7]

sparkgap - 29-6-2005 at 02:48

Well, from what I've read thus far, it's not really ClO<sub>2</sub> that is in the mouthwash per se; rather, the chlorite ions present in the mouthwash are supposed to decompose into chlorine dioxide while you are swishing it in your mouth. Well, at least that's how I understand the product brochures I've read. The buffering is to retard decomposition, I would presume.

I do believe that this explanation of theirs is a wee bit simplified, so maybe someone more knowledgeable might want to illuminate? :D

sparky (~_~)

P.S. My original question remains unanswered. :) Oh, and like I said Tim, the mouthwash worked well. That I would presume from the fact that my date just couldn't stop and let go. :D

12AX7 - 29-6-2005 at 03:33

Quote:
Originally posted by sparkgap
Oh, and like I said Tim, the mouthwash worked well. That I would presume from the fact that my date just couldn't stop and let go. :D


I see. :D :D

Think you can find a patent on that stuff? That'd tell I bet.

Tim

kyanite - 29-6-2005 at 18:05

I was in Wall-Mart today, (trip to beach tomorow:D), when I saw this bottle of water sanitizer. Chlorine Dioxide 2% and 98% inert material(water...)
The bottle was tiny, I'd say abot 10-15 mL... I figue that means that you don't need much to sanitize.. mouthwash would probably have less than this...

PS, When I wake up in the morning, my breath stinks, even though I brush thoroughly the night before... Do I have halitosis :(
Hey, where can I get some of that mouthwash?:)

12AX7 - 29-6-2005 at 18:40

Should probably floss, and brush your tongue.

I can't floss since I've got braces... stinks!

Tim

sparkgap - 30-6-2005 at 04:40

"...When I wake up in the morning, my breath stinks, even though I brush thoroughly the night before... Do I have halitosis..."

Morning breath, as it is commonly called, is due to the fact that saliva isn't moving that much in your mouth when you're sleeping; that allows the sulfur bacteria in your mouth to start pumping away their foul wastes. I don't think that constitutes halitosis... (I still wonder up to this point how Prince Charming was able to kiss Sleeping Beauty... ;))

sparky (~_~)

Misconceiving advertising

Lambda - 30-6-2005 at 10:20

Sparkgap, try and figure out how Casanova did it, he ate garlic like his life depended on it. He literally swum in that stuff, I too by the way, and still do. Willy agrees with my garlic abuse.

It can at times, be quit misconceiving how they present a product. Chlorox (brandname for Sodium hypochlorite solution) has a strength classified as grams of active chlorine per liter. Hydrogen peroxide should be grams of active Oxygen per liter. They are allway talking about Detergent as being highly, super or ultra concentrated. I can thus imagine that a product manufacturer would rather sell a product as having a higher concentration than that of a competing manufacturer. One way to do this is to medel around with the precentages. So now, ClO <----> Cl2 (1) as 48 <----> 64 or in other words you have gaind 33.3 % concentration with the same starting product, using %Cl2 instead of %NaClO. The same example for H2O2 would be O2 <----> 2 H2O2 as 32 <----> 68 so you have now gaind 112.5 % concentration with the same starting product, using %H2O2 instead of %O2.

I am not saying that ClO2 is actually NaClO2 (Sodium chlorite), but it could be. In this case you should be talking about active O2. So then O2 <----> ClO2 as 32 <----> 64 in other words you would have gaind 100 % based on the starting product Sodium chlorite. So using ClO2 makes this example sound more concentrated. An acid solution of NaClO2 indeed would generate ClO2 gas.

1.- In reality the NaClO has a different equasion: 2 NaOH + Cl2 <----> NaCl + NaClO + H2O

CONCLUSION:

I think your "stabilised" ClO2 is just NaClO2, or an acid solution of the same.
Quote:
You have to be real screwd up sometimes to understand how this phony world we live in works (I am continuesly screwd up !)


[Edited on 1-7-2005 by Lambda]

Ripped off by a 10-15 ml mouthwash bottle !

Lambda - 30-6-2005 at 13:12

The following is a typical formula for bleaching polyester-cotton blend fabrics: 2 g/1 NaClO2, 2 ml/1 formic acid (85%) to adjust pH to 3, 1 g/l NaNO3.

Tim, it may look like your patent theory has gone down the drain. These mouthwash guy's may just be a bunch of common crooks. I wonder what this 10-15 ml rip off bottle costs ?. Is it an American product ?,.... it couldn't possibly be European !.:P

[Edited on 30-6-2005 by Lambda]

Lambda - 30-6-2005 at 21:33

I may not speak badly of those who thought up this mouthwash water, for they have made a discovery in it's own right. Regardless of what this miracle water was used for in the first place. The full potential of black gunpowder was not realised, untill it's darker side became apparent. This in it's own right may be called a discovery.

Interesting about ClO2 is that the chlorine and the oxygen, both work as disinfectants or oxydising elements. NaClO2 would work as an oxygen oxydiser.

Interesting to know would be if this mouthwash has a chlorine, and maybe allso acidic odore to it. If not, then I think sparkgap is right.

Quote sparkgap 29-6-2005 at 11:48 AM:
Well, from what I've read thus far, it's not really ClO2 that is in the mouthwash per se; rather, the chlorite ions present in the mouthwash are supposed to decompose into chlorine dioxide while you are swishing it in your mouth. Well, at least that's how I understand the product brochures I've read. The buffering is to retard decomposition, I would presume.

[Edited on 1-7-2005 by Lambda]

Archimede - 1-7-2005 at 14:16

About getting ripped off... my wife sent me to buy swim-ear drops.
I paid $6.5 for a 29mL bottle.

this is whats in it:

Isopropyl alchool, 95%
Inactive ingredient:
Anhydrous glycerin 5%.

For $6.5 you can make 1 gallon of something similar to that.

[Edited on 1-7-2005 by Archimede]

Sciencemadness products.

Lambda - 1-7-2005 at 14:55

Archimede, we should bumb the market with Sciencemadness products and get forum sponsorship in this way. The money is out there, all we have to do is to grab it by means of a few good products. What about a shampo for balled men ?.

[Edited on 2-7-2005 by Lambda]

12AX7 - 1-7-2005 at 15:32

I should sell homeopathy products. Tap water with a dash of alum and brown food coloring, sell it for $30 an ounce!

Tim

Lambda - 1-7-2005 at 16:21

Sell it as hairgrow lotion or penis enlargement ointment. You will be surprised how many orders you will get, but don't use the Sciencemadness logo on your product !.

Dumb question about NaClO2

zoomer - 1-7-2005 at 20:39

I've been googling and guessing for a while, but probably not coming close to the actual answer. Can someone tell me: if NaClO2 is such an effective sanitizer, why it isn't used to chlorinate swimming pools?

(Be kind :))

Z

sparkgap - 1-7-2005 at 22:07

I do find it strange that there is no mention of concentrations of any sort on the label... :o

Maybe I should be doing a redox titration just to make sure...

But it does work! :D

sparky (^_^)

P.S. There is the slight hint of the "swimming pool" odor most of us have come to know and love...

neutrino - 2-7-2005 at 05:38

zoomer: Price. Chlorites aren't nearly as cheap as hypochlorites.

zoomer - 2-7-2005 at 06:57

Duh. [sheepish grin] That's why I shouldn't surf after bedtime. Checking around, it's twice the price of sodium dichloroisocyanurate, which is what most people use.

Thanks!

Z

[Edited on 2-7-2005 by zoomer]

Speaking of Products

hodges - 2-7-2005 at 11:59

.... How about underarm deodorant? I'm getting a bit irked at paying several dollars for a few ounces of roll-on that lasts just a few weeks. The bottle says "Active ingredient Aluminum Chlorohydrate 18%". Wouldn't that just be AlCl3 in water? Should be able to crank out a gallon of it for the price of a bottle of deodorant if so.

12AX7 - 2-7-2005 at 14:24

AlCl3.H2O *was* the original deoderant. Oh what fun it must've been to introduce such a personal product in the Victorian era. ;)

Tim

Also speaking of products...

cyclonite4 - 4-7-2005 at 04:21

... theres a product called Stingose on the market down here, a treatment for mosquito stings, and the active ingredient is aluminium sulfate. I'm not sure on the concentration (if I find the bottle I'll double-check), but it was very dilute IIRC, probably a few grams per bottle of fluid (in a spray dispenser).

I agree with the idea of a SM range of budget products, think of the savings! :)

12AX7 - 4-7-2005 at 04:45

Think of the "household" cleaners we could brew, too. CS2 or CCl4 cleaner, anyone? HCl for uber-CLR? :D

Tim (hey, I clean containers of powdery residues (Cu(OH)2 f.ex.) that way! :) )

sparkgap - 4-7-2005 at 04:52

I believe the EPA will either kick the shit out of you or sue your pants off if you start marketing carbon tet or disulfide for consumer use... oh wait, the government has other concerns at the moment :P Maybe we can generate revenue for SMDB!!!

sparky (~_~)

P.S. C'mon, we're veering way out here... hasn't anyone else seen stabilized chlorine dioxide?

Lambda - 4-7-2005 at 09:47

Nah,....no need, for we all have good breath out here.

Sparkgap, you said that it had a chlorine odor, so it can't be pure NaClO2. I think it is a bufferd acidic solution of NaClO2.

Look at this example:

The following is a typical formula for bleaching polyester-cotton blend fabrics: 2 g/1 NaClO2, 2 ml/1 formic acid (85%) to adjust pH to 3, 1 g/l NaNO3.

Please try and burn some over a flame with a piece of wire, and check it for Sodium. They may then allso have used a Sodium salt buffer.