Polverone - 27-1-2003 at 00:04
No doubt I would find more information if I continued my search longer, but I happened to stumble across evidence that picramic acid is a mutagen.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&d...
Picramic acid is produced when picric acid is metabolized, apart from deliberate creation as an intermediate in the synthesis of DDNP or other
compounds. Hopefully nobody here was ever handling these materials with bare hands and licking their fingers to begin with, but you can't be too safe.
vulture - 27-1-2003 at 09:39
Polverone, I understand your concern, but there is only a fine line between mutagen and carcinogenic.
Mutagen means that the substance has the possibility to alter your DNA that will be carried on to your offspring, while carcinogenic will alter your
DNA in such a way that cells may start to multiply in an uncontrollable manner.
Picric acid and all other nitroaromatics are all carcinogenic and probably also mutagenic, but it's quite hard to prove that a birth defect originates
back to the time when the parent was working with substance X twenty years ago.
kingspaz - 27-1-2003 at 13:02
well so long as you don't rub your balls with TNP i don't think the mutations would occur where it counts. if the cells in you hands skin mutate then
it doesn't *really* matter that much. so long as you don't contact much of it it shouldn't be a problem. all the above is in my opinion by the way.
Microtek - 28-1-2003 at 03:24
DNA alterations don't work like that. There is no correlation between which part of your body was exposed and which part of your unborn childs body
will be deformed. Personally, I just stay careful and avoid contact and if it turns out I or my children are affected, I'm just hoping that medical
science has advanced enough to deal with it.
toxicity of picric acid is a bit confusing to me ?
qashimalik - 14-2-2004 at 10:26
i have read that picric acid was used in WorldWar-I to cure the burns.then i think that it could not be a toxic compound.
Mutagens aren't specific in the mutations the produce in genetic code.
Hermes_Trismegistus - 14-2-2004 at 10:36
all mutagens are carcinogenic (by definition)
however not all carcinogens are mutagenic.
fritz - 14-2-2004 at 16:49
????
A mutation is not inescapable cancer!
If children got two heads and three legs because their parents were mad madscientists they are muteted but they do NOT suffer from cancer!
From my point of view handling/producing TNP or picric acid should not be that problem. Both substances are poisonous and give really nasty stains so
it is advisable to wear gloves disregarded if they are carcinogens or mutagens or what the hell ever! Also if you produce or handle this substances
they are normally not dry or even in dust form that you can breath them. What I recognize as a problem is the aspect of the technical use of this
substances. When they did their duty and shared the energy bond into their structure with their environment there is usually some cloud in the air and
normally not all of the substances undergo the change from from aromatic system back to CO2 and N2 but remain more or less unchanged finely divided
in the air.
Not that I might suggest anybody here will carry out reactions like this because handling and using such substances is soooooooo forbidden and
veeerrryyyy dangerous! But all the poor workers whose job this is! When I was such a worker I would perhaps think about what I´m doing! Because
finely divided in a cloud most dangerous substances (think about BW/CW-agents) have a especially bad behaviour on human health.
all mutagens are carcinogenic
Hermes_Trismegistus - 14-2-2004 at 19:45
A mutagen is a substance capable of changing the genetic code of a cell.
It takes effect by introducing chemical interference into the process of mitosis.
often, a cell that has its genetic code disturbed simply reverts back to its original programming. Fast growth and replication, producing more
undifferentiated cells. Those cells expect to recieve a chemical signal to become specific tissues at some future time. The signals never come. The
body has long since left the womb.
The cells never stop dividing and eventually push enough essentil tissue (organs) out of the way that death results.
Any mutagen is capable of producing this effect on a cell.
All mutagens are therefore carcinogenic.
however not all carcinogens are mutagens.
Mutagens are chemicals.
Radiations, can also cause cancer through direct interference at any time.
electromagnetic effects can also cause cancer.
And yes, mutagens can also cause birth defects.
Hermes_Trismegistus - 14-2-2004 at 19:53
They (usually) do so, not by interfering with the process of cell division.
but by the interference with the chemical cues that the undifferentiated cells are receiving.
Not all mutagens cause birth defects, not all chemicals which cause birth defects cause cancer.
not all birth defects are due to genetic abnormalities..
P.S. cells "go cancerous" several times a day in the average human body. (More in a smoker, or irradiated man, or in a person exposed to
mutagens)
Usually the immune system catches it and kill it off. Sometimes it doesn't attack it right away (for reasons we are not entirely sure of yet)
It's the times the Immune System doesn't catch and destroy those cells right away that people die of cancer.
Class dismissed.
Mr. Wizard - 15-2-2004 at 01:18
About Picric Acid being used in WW1 as a treatment on burns; it was before antibiotics, and many items were used to kill bacteria in a hope to kill
the infection, even if was slightly less so than person being 'cured'. Toxic doses of iodine, mercury, arsenic (Salvarsan), or God knows
what else were used to treat Syphilis , for example. We still use a silver compound to treat burns. Tincture of iodine and mercurochrome were common
antiseptics, although not as common now. Think of it as chemotherapy against bacteria. If our arsenal of antibiotics is trumped by the evolution of
the bacteria,or by a loss of technology, we may again turn to them.