Sciencemadness Discussion Board - The effect of acid on skin

The effect of acid on skin

The_Simpsons - 13-8-2005 at 07:53

what exactly does acid do to your skin and etc, at the chemical level, (specially strong acids)

sorry for my bad english, english isn't my first language, and im in a kind of hurry

E.b. Chemo: title

[Edited on 13-8-2005 by chemoleo]

12AX7 - 13-8-2005 at 08:06

I imagine it hydrolyzes proteins. Certainly when it soaks through, the pH imbalance sends your nerves into a frenzy!

Tim

Broken Gears - 13-8-2005 at 11:42

I have burned my fingers sevel times on acids like: nitric- phosphos- and surfuric acid.
And surfuric acid was by far the most painfull.
The doctor said it was 3. degree burn.
I would love to post some pictures of it, but im not sure i know how.

acidburn 2days_old.jpg - 28kB

Sergei_Eisenstein - 13-8-2005 at 11:58

Bwaaa, it's only sulfuric acid... Be glad it wasn't chlorosulfonic acid

One of my friends had a "little accident" while handling chlorosulfonic acid. It burnt through his lab coat (for chemical laboratory work), longsleeves and gloves. He was quick enough to remove everything immediately, but couldn't prevent that a tiny amount reached his hand. He said it didn't hurt much, but it was a rather "unusual sight to see your hand smoking". The wound is still visible two years later, and likely will be for many years to come.

12AX7 - 13-8-2005 at 13:26

Of course I'm sure a mixture of fluorosulfonic, hydrofluoric acids and/or arsenic pentafluoride would be quite venomous indeed, but that's beside the subject of the thread concerning reactions with biological material.

Hm, forgot to mention, concentrated H2SO4 will chemically dehydrate biology, this would literally be a burn.

Tim

Sandmeyer - 13-8-2005 at 14:52

i know someone who burned himself with an ionic melt (don't remember which). it looked really bad, the whole hand and a part of the arm had no skin at all, it took him quite a while in hospital recovering.

a crazy friend tossed some HCl of unknown concentration in my eye unintentionally, it burned like hell,, luckily there was running water 2 seconds away. i could not see much for a short period, then it was blurry then it recovered. interesting and frightening experience.

[Edited on 13-8-2005 by Sandmeyer]

chemoleo - 13-8-2005 at 15:39

Well think about it- what is the skin made of?

Proteins, Fats, glycosaccharides, water, and pigments.
So... initially your skin is a good protection. Until the outer most layers are soaked enough to allow diffusion to the lower layers.Then you feel the pain, because nerveendings are killed/stimulated by the different H+ gradients (and celldeath later), etc.
Altogether though, 12Ax is correct of course - hydrolysis of the proteins, of the fats, denaturation of proteins, leading to membrane breakdown, cell death and so on.
Basically a whole range of things.

As to H2SO4 - I did get 96% onto my hands on a couple of occasions, it started to sting a little that's all. So does conc. hot NaOH solution. But no lasting effects. I guess I am just a lot tougher than most of you

Looking for pain and scares ?

Lambda - 13-8-2005 at 16:34

Perchloric acid, if you want to know what pain is, then spill this one on your skin. An additional disadvantage with Perchloric acid is, that these wounds are very slow to heal. I have read stories about chemists that had an accident with Nitrating acid (HNO3 / H2SO4), they pulled there skin off there hands, only to see there bare bones. An acid which would not be a very likely candidate, based on it's strength, is Hydrofluoric acid. Again, a very slow healer. Oh, and Sulphuric acid is well known for it's charing properties, so third degree burns are likely to occure. I agree with Sergei_Eisenstein, Chlorosulfonic acid is a very, very nasty one. Again a very slow healer. When talking about slow healers, I mean wounds that stay open, there is also a high probability of scars that will mark you till the day you may rest in your coffin. I hope you all may live to a mature old age, and pass away painless and peacefully though.

[Edited on 14-8-2005 by Lambda]

neutrino - 13-8-2005 at 19:31

Quote:

I hope you all may live to a mature old age

I doubt many of us here will have that pleasure, considering the stuff we play with. Just look at Samosa.

The average chemist doesn't live too long, and we're certainly 'above' average.

Lambda - 13-8-2005 at 19:49

Come on Neutrino !,.... look at the bright side of things. Short and intense or long and boring they say. Forget the "or", and look at it as long and intense !. Maybe I am just a dreamer, but it shore as hell makes my every day.

[Edited on 14-8-2005 by Lambda]

The_Davster - 13-8-2005 at 20:02

Hopefully medicine will have advanced by the time all this catches up to me, otherwise I expect to die rather early. Lambda, I have had a rather severe nitrating acid accident, I was bored and reckless and young so I attempted to nitrate IPA with HNO3 and H2SO4...long story short no personal protection other than goggles...squirted IPA into mixed acids....mix instantly vapourized and shot straight up at me...left with very painfull burns on my right hand that were yellow for around a month...I got some strange looks.

I also had my shirt melt off my body and pants severly damnaged.

[Edited on 14-8-2005 by rogue chemist]

Lambda - 13-8-2005 at 20:15

I am sorry to hear about this Rogue chemist. I hope your lungs were not damaged ?.

But that's the right spirt, medice will be our saviour, we will all become old ratteling boned men and woman. May all our bones rattle oneday, so that great, great, grandpa and grandma may pass wisdom on to the spouses.

Yeh, talking about all those torn clothes, you must have looked like the green Hulk in a mood of rage. But if you have received irreversable damage in the process, then I certainly do not think that this is anything to laugh about. It is not my intention to mock your accident, for this is then a very seriouse matter. And I certainly hope that things will come right with you.

[Edited on 14-8-2005 by Lambda]

The_Davster - 13-8-2005 at 21:31

It was outside, almost no NOx was inhaled, somehow I had the reflexes to move away to avoid acid on my face, other than a few layers of skin and my pride, I do not think anything else was damaged. Seeing as this was quite some time ago, and I did not die from pulmonary edema, I do not think I recieved any permanent damage, but thank you for your concern.

It was for sure something to learn from.

12AX7 - 13-8-2005 at 21:37

That's the good thing about oxidizers, if they don't kill you immediately, you're basically okay. Except for chromates (cancer) and permanganates (Parkinsons-esque) anyway.

With all the attention I give lead it's probably going to kill me... it can be chelated, no?

Tim

The_Davster - 13-8-2005 at 21:48

There is a parkinsons like disease from permanganates? I thought the only risk from Mn was infertility in men? Well luckily the parkinsons like disease only seems to come from excessive inhalation of the dust of Mn compounds...Just don't breathe the fumes when you drip Mn2O7 on stuff.

Not many Mn compounds have high vapour pressures.

12AX7 - 13-8-2005 at 22:47

Yep, but unfortunately a lot of heat can do the same thing... I seem to recall weldors (approx. 0.5-1% Mn in basically all steel, more in special alloys) and potters (many clay blends and glazes have a lot of MnO2 for black and pink colors) occasionally have trouble with these things.

Apparently there is treatment for Mn, but it takes many uncomfortable weeks to do it or something, and there's probably permanent damage (I don't know either).

Tim

The_Simpsons - 14-8-2005 at 00:59

thanks for all replies, now i know

Wart removal

chloric1 - 14-8-2005 at 05:34

Being frustrated with the OTC treatments for warts, I take more drastic measures. I use 70% HNO3 and becomes quite painful after 5 seconds. The pain is simular to 32% HCl on an open cut. Then the skin yellows,, dries, and starts peeling after a couple bathings. I must say I have done this with 90% formic acid and it stung profoundly with a large blister as a result. the blister opened and I had a skin flap, very gross. Formic acid has vessicant properties that render it undesirable.

neutrino - 14-8-2005 at 07:09

Ouch. Did you get the warts off?

These damn warts !

Lambda - 14-8-2005 at 09:23

I also once had a wart, and just like you, I got fed up with the normal treatment. When I applied Silver nitrate (hells stone, which decomposes under the influence of light, and produces Nitric acid in situ) or formula W (I think Salicylic acid) the wart just became bigger or nothing happened. So in desperation I went into the lab, and got hold of liquid Nitrogen. I poured the liquid Nitrogen out of the main tank into a Dewar vessel, but because of all the white clouds, it is hard to tell when this vessel is full. A lot of cold gas moved down onto the floor of the 5 * 5 meters filling room, and it was covered by a 20 - 40 centimeter thick cloud blanket. It's quite scary, for you canot see the floor anymore. When I walked away, I heard a loud cracking sound. You have quest it allready, I split my rubber shoe sals in half. Both my new shoes where f****d up. So, having been hit by this rather unpleasant experience, I became cautiouse. I only applied a little Liquide Nitrogen by means of a cotton wool stick onto this wart. And you know what happend, it didn't go away and instead of being 0.5 cm, it became nearly 2 cm. It somhow had spread out underneath the blister. This took a wile though to develope. I got so pissed off, that I again applied liquid Nitrogen, only not in a cautiouse manner. I had a hole on the palm of my hand about 8 mm deap, and 3 cm wide after the blister had been cut open. After having applied a strong antibacterial ointment, the wound was closed with cloth soaked in the same, with a plaster to hold it in place and keep out dirt. I am now looking at my palm, seeing no scares and not even the slightest trace of this gaping wound. I realy thought my hand was going to rot off, it looked that bad.

Chris The Great - 15-8-2005 at 18:22

Quote:

Originally posted by rogue chemist
I was bored and reckless and young so I attempted to nitrate IPA with HNO3 and H2SO4...long story short no personal protection other than goggles...squirted IPA into mixed acids....mix instantly vapourized and shot straight up at me...left with very painfull burns on my right hand that were yellow for around a month...I got some strange looks.

I thought I would mention that IPA added to nitrating mixtures also produces tetranitromethane. TeNMe is an extremely potent carcinogen...

Check US patent 4122124. It mentions near the end (on the left side of the second page of text) that tetranitromethane is formed if sulfuric acid is present in the nitric acid.

sparkgap - 17-8-2005 at 19:57

chemoleo:

"...As to H2SO4 - I did get 96% onto my hands on a couple of occasions, it started to sting a little that's all. So does conc. hot NaOH solution. But no lasting effects. I guess I am just a lot tougher than most of you..."

Translation: your skin will make better leather than ours.

chloric1 and Lambda, you guys are too harsh on your verruca. Vitamin C works. Really.

(I meant applying a paste of crushed tablets in water, not taking it in internally)

Speaking of acids on skin, CrO3/H2SO4 isn't a pretty sight to behold on otherwise flawless skin.

It healed after around 5 months with extensive scarring.

sparky (~_~)

Fleaker - 20-8-2005 at 15:22

From personal experience I can say I'd rather have sulfuric acid spilled on me than hot elemental bromine. That takes months to heal. Fuming nitric is pretty bad too, stains your skin mustard yellow.

Thankfully I've never spilled perchloric acid on me (70% is all that I've ever used). I've also heard that concentrated formic acid is really painful while conc. HF is very likely to kill you by poisoning (small F ion really gets into your system). IIRC, hydrazine is another bad one to spill on yourself.

Peroxysulfuric/Caro's acid, that isn't nice at all, extremely corrosive to organic matter (literally as fast as the Hollywood rendition of it eating through flesh). Just goes to show that being a chemist has its dangers :p! lol anyone else here notice that their sense of smell is deteriorating?

neutrino - 20-8-2005 at 16:27

Actually, mine has been improving since I stopped playing with chlorine.

The_Davster - 20-8-2005 at 16:31

Quote:

Originally posted by Fleaker
anyone else here notice that their sense of smell is deteriorating?

Definatly

Your nose can be used for you, or against you

Lambda - 20-8-2005 at 17:32

Quote:

Originally posted by neutrino
Actually, mine has been improving since I stopped playing with chlorine.

You should try a cup of coffee after smelling Chlorine gas, it tasts like sh**. Have you ever smoked a cigaret after a sniff of Phosgene, it tasts like Metall.

If you want to smell what a bottle contains, then the easiest and safest way to do this is: Unscrew the bottle or container, hold the cap or lid about 50 cm from your face at chest hight, and with a slow motion, wave air it towards your nose. If the smell is to faint, then gradually bring the cap or lid towards your chest, and repeat the same movement.

Never smell a container or bottle directly through the nek, people have severely damaged there sineses by doing this, or even worse. Many of you have most probably had bad experiences with concentrated Ammonia.

heck ammonia is too much!

chloric1 - 20-8-2005 at 17:58

Yeh 28% ammonia can throw you down on the floor! One wiff sent me into a lacrimation fits. The deal was I was reacting the ammonia with a bromine solution in HBr and I added exess ammonia to discharge ALL the deep red color since ammonia reduces bromine to ammonium bromide and nitrogen gas in aqueous solution. Thinking the ammonia was oxidized I leaned closely over the bottle. Luckily I did not drop the flask on my feet! After everything I did get about 80 or 90 grams of pure white ammonium bromide though!

Lamba, if you don't mind yellow skin, 70% nitric acid works with one application! Stings a little though.

Oh about 10 years ago i worked in a metal shop and there was a white brazing paste that contained potassium biflouride. I accidently got about 2 or 3 grams on my bare hand while cleaning some tubing. YEOW! This hurt much worse that nitric acid. Think 1 million microscopic razor blades! That how it feels! I know I want to use bifluoride salts to do titanium and niobium work but I really have to watch these caustic salts!

[Edited on 8/21/2005 by chloric1]

[Edited on 8/21/2005 by chloric1]

[Edited on 8/21/2005 by chloric1]

Lambda - 20-8-2005 at 19:18

Chloric1, indeed, Hydrogen flouride and Bifluorides are often very much underestimated in there effect on the skin. I had mentioned Hydrogen flouride a few posts back in: Looking for pain and scares ?. Intoxication by flourides, is about as painfull as it can get, you would rather rip your stomach out, than bare anymore pain.

Be greatful, for being hit by Ammonia, and not by Hydrogen azide. This one sends you down so fast, that you literaly crack open your scull when hitting the floor, only after you had first slamed it against the lab table. It dose the same as you would expect from Hydrogen cyanide, only Hydrogen azide first slaps you real hard in the nose before you come crashing down. The smell is intollerable and evil.

Chris The Great - 20-8-2005 at 20:21

Chlorine is my worst enemy, and the reason I'm breaking down and getting a gas mask after one to many leaking chlorine generaters and the pain my sinuses endure every time I use it. I have noticed my sense of smell is deadened after using chlorine gas for some time, but since I can't really compare it easily I'm not sure how much it has actually deteriorated.
At least it's nice to know that it will begin to heal over time....

Quote:

Originally posted by Lambda
Have you ever smoked a cigaret after a sniff of Phosgene, it tasts like Metall.

It seems that if you could market this as a 'quit smoking now' type program, you would make millions before the lawsuits arrive. By then you would be in Mexico

Fleaker - 20-8-2005 at 20:39

I agree with Lambda, HF would definitely be a bad bad experience. Not only would it hurt, I'm nearly positive that it is a potent poison that really messes with the skeletal system. I know for a fact that many colleges have gradually removed HF from their stockrooms because of the hazards involved in its use.

I've never experienced hydrogen azide (would be an interesting synth I'm sure) but I can tell you that hydrogen selenide is horrible! The stink is terrible and if you get over exposed, you're sick for months.

sparkgap - 20-8-2005 at 23:32

Quote:

Originally posted by Fleaker
...I'd rather have sulfuric acid spilled on me than hot elemental bromine. That takes months to heal...

My thoughts on this:

elemental bromine + skin: bad
hot elemental bromine + skin: YEEEEOOOOOWW!!!

Quote:

Originally posted by Fleaker
...Fuming nitric is pretty bad too, stains your skin mustard yellow...

vulture gave a nice explanation on the wonders of "nitroskin" in a Whimsy thread

Quote:

Originally posted by Fleaker
Just goes to show that being a chemist has its dangers :p!

Samosa says:

Quote:

Originally posted by Samosa
Indeed, many of my pets are dangerous; but as is always the case, "the hydrogen fluoride is just as afraid of you as you are of it." This can be said about any chemical, I'm sure. Perhaps they just seek to protect themselves from ones who cannot manipulate them properly?

Quote:

Originally posted by Fleaker
anyone else here notice that their sense of smell is deteriorating?

Funnily enough, after all the years I've spent in the lab with nasties, my labmates still use my nose as a makeshift chemical analysis device.

Quote:

Originally posted by Lambda
Never smell a container or bottle directly through the neck

Hell no, that's suicidal!

Quote:

Originally posted by Lambda
Many of you have most probably had bad experiences with concentrated Ammonia.

That's why you're supposed to use moist red litmus paper instead of your nose when detecting ammonia.

Quote:

Originally posted by Lambda
Be greatful, for being hit by Ammonia, and not by Hydrogen azide. This one sends you down so fast, that you literaly crack open your scull when hitting the floor, only after you had first slamed it against the lab table. It dose the same as you would expect from Hydrogen cyanide, only Hydrogen azide first slaps you real hard in the nose before you come crashing down. The smell is intollerable and evil.

Rosco Bodine had this to say about hydrazoic acid:

Quote:

Originally posted by Rosco Bodine
...such solutions are an extreme danger due to the toxicity and volatility .
The material is so toxic that it has been said if you smell it , then you have
already been poisoned . And that is not very much if any exaggeration .
Extreme Caution is the imperative rule for hydrazoic acid . It simply is not
the sort of material inclined to suffer fools or carelessness without exacting
a dear price for the error . It is among the deadliest toxins known to science.

Quote:

Originally posted by Chris The Great
It seems that if you could market this (phosgene) as a 'quit smoking now' type program, you would make millions before the lawsuits arrive. By then you would be in Mexico

Their lungs are on the road to total deterioration already, so why should they complain?

sparky (~_~)

Broken Gears - 22-9-2005 at 10:21

Another acidburn

Again with conc. sulfuric acid. I let it sit for 2-3 min. until I washed it off.
After having my arm under the cold tap for servel min. I could peel the skin right of and underneath the skin is kinda seethough for 1mm or so.

I Know this has nothing to do with chemistry and I should be in therapy... and I am.

acidburn2.jpg - 30kB

denatured - 13-10-2005 at 10:12

LOL, i think this thread fits best in whimsy forum... i didn't know that there are a lot of mad scientists out there ...

This is an entertainment thread although that horrible accidents you encounter ...

I always keep water and milk handy just in case.

i used to inhale HCl from h2so4 and salt and it is quite refreshing

mick - 18-10-2005 at 13:11

If you go swimming in an over chlorinated swimming pool and have a cigarette afterwards you can taste phosgene.

mick

gil - 16-1-2007 at 08:32

Quote:

Originally posted by Lambda
I also once had a wart, and just like you, I got fed up with the normal treatment. When I applied Silver nitrate (hells stone, which decomposes under the influence of light, and produces Nitric acid in situ) or formula W (I think Salicylic acid) the wart just became bigger or nothing happened. So in desperation I went into the lab, and got hold of liquid Nitrogen. I poured the liquid Nitrogen out of the main tank into a Dewar vessel, but because of all the white clouds, it is hard to tell when this vessel is full. A lot of cold gas moved down onto the floor of the 5 * 5 meters filling room, and it was covered by a 20 - 40 centimeter thick cloud blanket. It's quite scary, for you canot see the floor anymore. When I walked away, I heard a loud cracking sound. You have quest it allready, I split my rubber shoe sals in half. Both my new shoes where f****d up. So, having been hit by this rather unpleasant experience, I became cautiouse. I only applied a little Liquide Nitrogen by means of a cotton wool stick onto this wart. And you know what happend, it didn't go away and instead of being 0.5 cm, it became nearly 2 cm. It somhow had spread out underneath the blister. This took a wile though to develope. I got so pissed off, that I again applied liquid Nitrogen, only not in a cautiouse manner. I had a hole on the palm of my hand about 8 mm deap, and 3 cm wide after the blister had been cut open. After having applied a strong antibacterial ointment, the wound was closed with cloth soaked in the same, with a plaster to hold it in place and keep out dirt. I am now looking at my palm, seeing no scares and not even the slightest trace of this gaping wound. I realy thought my hand was going to rot off, it looked that bad. [/quote

I can remove warts in minuts! After I got result,I was left wonderin' Why surgical excision Is still the tecnique in vogue when immediate result is required. Which is done by nurse,not surgeon! It does not work most of the time the wart regrow.(to disappear after 2 years max most of the time
I use a combinarion of acids and base,follow 2 oxidizer,follow meccanical extraction of the bits/roots (forgot proper name now) I pull the lot out.No roots left!

Also there are good result using an acid present in woman
breastmilk. I will post ref. if required.

And ammonia or bases will defatten the derma layer. Did not see it in this tread

[Edited on 16-1-2007 by gil]

Sauron - 16-1-2007 at 09:19

I guess I am fortunate. In 40+ years of experimental chemistry I have never had a serious acid burn. Worst have been a few ruined clothing articles, a few brown nitric acid stains that peeled off.

I was the designated disposer, down the drain in a hood, of excess inventory of chlorosulfonic acid, fuming sulfuric acid, fuming nitric acid, sulfuryl chloride etc. for the FDA lab in New Orleans, my boss from the University consulted for them and when they had a dirty job to do like this, I got to do it. But I gloved up and goggled up and lowered the sash. No worries.

At present have 4 liters unopened 65% Merck fuming sulfuric on hand. Some chloroacetic, to make into chloroacetyl chloride. Some oxalyl chloride. Some chlorosulfonyl isocyanate. About a Kg bromine. These need to be respected or else.

gil - 16-1-2007 at 10:46

65% Fuming sulfuric acid?I tought Fuming is 100% + oleum added into it And 65% is diluited. I have
2.5 L. 99% sulfuric acid and would not call it fuming sulfuric acid.

unionised - 16-1-2007 at 11:26

H2SO4 + 65% of its weight of SO3 is very clearly fuming sulphuric acid.

gil - 16-1-2007 at 11:40

Got it now.It wasn't clear to me(65% fuming H2SO4) I tought was 65% : 2/3 total ratio.Thanks.

Sauron - 16-1-2007 at 11:53

@unionised is quite correct.

It is 100% H2SO4 +65% by wt SO3

Primarily used in microchip production.

Most lab fuminf sulfuric is 20-30% SO3. (One of the other, not so vague a range.)

I paid a pretty penny for this Merck product, given that the importer and reseller are greedy, about 2X the Merck ex works price.

Sauron - 16-1-2007 at 12:09

I should mention that where I live, the govt restricts import of SO3 as such, chlorosulfonic acid, fluorosulfonic acid, sulfuryl chloride, sulfur dioxide, etc. one must obtain a permit from the Ministry of Defense to import, manufacture etc.

But fuming sulfuric acid is under no such restriction.

Furthermore chemical importers need to have import licenses on a compound by compound basis and not all of them have licenses for all of the products their parent companies sell. Merck Thailand has been around longer than most and has apparently done a more thorough job of obtaining and maintaining the validity of such licenses, as compared with Carlo Erba, Panreac, Acros etc. Local stocks are not very comprehensive, and most things have to be ordered in, meaning delays and snowballing shipping fees.

Recently I wanted some chloroacetyl chloride. Only one company had import permit for this, and upon ordering I was informed that shipping regulations forbid air transport, and that surface transport regs now require a refrigerated container. The sum of all that was NO SHIPMENT.

Well now I have 2 Kg chloroacetic acid at far lower cost and the means to make the acid chloride from it. Unpleasant stuff.

Life's a bitch.

garage chemist - 17-1-2007 at 02:16

I would really like to have some Oleum as well (the 65% kind, not the lame 20% kind). Oleum is one of the few chemicals that I simply refuse to buy because of its horrendous price. I will not pay well over 100€ for a liter.
How much did you pay for it, Sauron?

Chloroacetic acid is also extremely hard to get here, because it is "toxic". I am however planning to make some myself, by chlorination of GAA in presence of PCl5.

Misanthropy - 17-1-2007 at 18:14

I get a vibrant, rainbow colored, kaleidescopic dermal psyche warp.... not to mention the hair!!!! oh..

unionised - 18-1-2007 at 12:22

I think that may be the effect of "acid" on some other part of the body.

ac- - 30-7-2007 at 06:16

Hydrofluoric acid on skin!

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/356/6/e5/F1

YT2095 - 30-7-2007 at 10:31

I must be either Fortunate or carefull, I have many of the acids mentioned and at the same concentrations, as well as the Bases and the Br2 liquid.

I`ve never been burned yet happily, and hope to stay that way.

although I did have a hole in some rubber kitchen gloves whilst cleaning and oven and parts out with NaOH soln, never felt any pain at all, but my finger nail turned into a gel that could be scrapped off, and when dried it went yellow and cracked

I should have used my Lab gloves and not trusted domestic kitchen ones (totally my own fault).

12AX7 - 30-7-2007 at 14:10

Quote:

Originally posted by ac-
Hydrofluoric acid on skin!

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/356/6/e5/F1

WOW! He survived!

Tim

Nerro - 30-7-2007 at 14:46

Reading stuff like this really affirms my being a bit of a pussy when handeling nasty shit like F3CCOOH, (conc.) H2SO4, conc. HCl, Br2 and HNO3. The only thing I might need to be more careful with is LN2 but that's just too much fun. (not to mention being a complete pussy around strong solutions of NOCl and (Na,K,Li)OH)

How do you guys normally approach such materials? gloves?

-Edit- JESUS FKN CHRIST! He had the calciumcrap coming out of his skin...

[Edited on 30-7-2007 by Nerro]

The_Davster - 30-7-2007 at 15:38

Quote:

Originally posted by Nerro

How do you guys normally approach such materials? gloves?

Latex gloves, usually. I used to not bother, but a well nitrated index finger a couple years(2?...3?...) convinced me to start. This summer the skin on that finger seems drier(and kinda cracked in places) than before...hmm.

YT2095 - 30-7-2007 at 23:57

I get boxes full of latex free Nitrile disposable gloves, and even then I handle the material as if I weren`t wearing gloves just to be on the safe side.

also, most of the time the acids I use are dilute also, there would be no advantage in using super conc acids, in fact I`ve found that for a few cases only Dilute will actually work

Ozone - 31-7-2007 at 13:21

I usually prefer to use nitrile (latex causes redness and little red-spots that feel like a pin is sticking in them--allergy), but...I have noticed that nitrile nitrates very nicely, turning a bright yellow before it fails (so, at least there is some warning). I have noticed that conc. H2SO4 gets hot when in it gets onto latex gloves, before they fail; again a warning.

What's bad are the things that penetrate without warning. Cinnamoyl chloride (and likely otherr aromatic acyl chlorides) will go through nitrile where they proceed to cinnamoylate and dissolve your skin (HCl made with the water in your skin). Nice.

Acetic anhydride inside of you glove (unnoticed pinhole) is also interesting. No pain, but when I took the glove off, my left index finger was "corpse grey" and wrinkled. I stuck it in the base bath and rinsed thoroughly with water (until my skin tested neutral to litmus). Still, no pain, but a day or two after, all of the skin on the hand dried out and peeled off (like sunburn).

TFA is nasty (but the "smoke" is quite cool, you feel like a mad scientist just opening it). I handle it very carefully, and have had no permeability issues or burns.

Pyridine and the like also penetrate nitrile (for reference).

When I was a metals analysis tech (nitric, HCl everywhere), I did not have a piece of clothing without a hole in it, and my fingers were always yellow (particularly the index and bird finger where I would hold the stoppers whilst sampling from volumetric flasks). An errant drop of HNO3 (70%) on the forearm*, unoticed produced a deep orange pit with a yellow ring, and felt like being jabbed with an icepick.

The fluoride method in boiling conc H2SO4 is bad too. No matter how hard you try, a drop always gets on you somewhere. Move calmly (but quickly) to the sink! Small burns (1-5mm, maybe, from the droplets) resembled broken gears's.

The worst, though, I think, is hot 50% NaOH. It burns like hell, immediately, and is difficult to wash off. The grease on my face actually protected me wuite a bit though--There were no markings there, but on my neck and forearms*, wheals. Yowch.

* I wear a labcoat, but I roll the sleeves up to my elbows. I found out the hard way that a drop of something on your forearm sucks, BUT, a cuff soaked in something and then unwittingly left in contact with your wrist is much, much worse.

Be careful,

O3

feacetech - 23-10-2007 at 15:00

glacial acetic acid gives the oddist of burns

I spilt some on my finger tips, didnt notice much and washed it off.

After a few days it looked as though there was black brusing under my skin my fingers felt very tight like they were going to burst out of the skin and were very dry feeling I had to constantly lick them to relive it. It slowly got better but lasted about two weeks

chemkid - 23-10-2007 at 18:09

I prefer reusable, thick, glove that go up to your forearms. I try to be environmentally conscious. (considering how un environmental the TDS (total dissolved solid) levels from my household water must be)

Chemkid

Formatik - 30-3-2008 at 07:32

A long time ago I was boiling concd. H2SO4 and shook the liquid on accident, a small amount of the acid overflowed. I didn't notice this until about a drop of it hit my skin and was extraordinarily painful I looked at my hand where the pain was and the skin was dissolved. Although it was most intense, strangely (thankfully) though the pain didn't last long at all.

If you want to test the corrosiveness of a substance on something closest to skin, then meat should work.

Formatik - 30-3-2008 at 07:35

Quote:

Originally posted by feacetech
glacial acetic acid gives the oddist of burns

I spilt some on my finger tips, didnt notice much and washed it off.

After a few days it looked as though there was black brusing under my skin my fingers felt very tight like they were going to burst out of the skin and were very dry feeling I had to constantly lick them to relive it. It slowly got better but lasted about two weeks

I've spilled glacial acetic acid on me on accident and it stung pretty bad.

MagicJigPipe - 3-4-2008 at 22:54

I spilled an entire quart of nearly boiling hot, concentrated H2SO4 on the floor where it splashed on to everything (including my jeans). Surprisingly, none of it got through to my skin (my pants were kind of baggy). It just made my pants look like someone threw hot coals all over them.

One of the sensations I hate the most is a 35% H2O2 "burn". It turns your skin completely white and you get this "tingling/burning" sensation at random times until it heals. I hated that sensation!

Other than the H2O2 I have been fortunate enough not to have any sorts of burns (except a little NaOH). I guess I'm just very lucky or very careful. Well, I've probably had some other kind of "burn" that I just can't recall at this moment.

StevenRS - 12-4-2008 at 18:53

The H2O2 burn is annoying.
The worst I have ever had is molten KClO3 spilling on my skin. It was an interesting feeling, your skin being used as a fuel to burn itself even more. When it was over, and after I picked the nice carbon chunk out of my skin, it left an odd looking and painful scar with lots of little carbon fragments stuck in it.

a_bab - 16-4-2008 at 07:16

Slightly offtopic, I once got a bromine burn. Took 2 months to *kind of* fully heal; the pain was excruciating for days. The burned-up-by-bromine tissue stinks in a horrible way; something between rotten flesh and strong chemical smell (close to bromine obviously).

Once on the skin, it took like 2-3 seconds before the bromine literally got SOAKED into the skin like it was on paper. Then I felt the burn; nothing helped (oil, water, you name it).

-=HeX=- - 30-12-2009 at 17:45

The most amusing had to be a litre of 20% HCl pouring from a catastrophically smashed container into my LAP. I was sitting at the lab bench in school holding the big glass beaker, waiting for a friend to get the container for me to decant it into. Some idiot carrying a retort stand accidentally hit the stands 'pole' off the beaker, which suffered instantaneously effective catastrophic structural failure (i.e. it shattered), depositing the entire contents onto my lap - and my bollock region! Fearing that the meat and two veg would be dissolved into so much chemical soup I grabbed someones carefully prepared 500ml beaker of Na2CO3 solution and dumped it on myself, prior to pouring liberal amounts of water on the affected area of myself. Thankfully, only my thigh region got a minor rash and my pants began to degrade every time they went into the washing machine as their structural integrity was compromised. ALl in all a VERY amusing accident.

entropy51 - 30-12-2009 at 18:24

Quote:

I was sitting at the lab bench in school

So make up your mind, are you a rather well known chemist, or a high school student? Most chemists wouldn't hold a beaker of acid over their lap, would they?

-=HeX=- - 30-12-2009 at 18:42

*grin* Well... Lets not discuss the personal matters but I am currently trying to file several patents on my blasting caps (caseless) and blasting compositions for oil wells.

I am young, but then again I started very young. I am proud to say that in this day and age it is my generation that is innovating - one man I respect is not much older than I am, and he is VERY well known in the online community - I see him as a drug chemistry/ botanical genius.

By well known it depends on what circles you frequent. Try... Roguesci. I was lurking since 2006, yet only joined in 2007 and begun in earnest in '08. A steep learning curve for a young man with upcoming state exams but by mid '09 I was trying to sell my ideas. By the end of 2010 the projected pplan is to get the things patented at last, and start business as by then I will be done with my second level education and well into third level (Uni).

Youth is NEVER an indication of ignorance, nor is age an indication of wisdom. When, aged 16, you find yourself permanently scarred and damaged, in an operating theater, due to inferior energetic materials, you grow up fast. You rapidly become more obsessed than Davis ever could be, and find your innovative side - that is, if you are not scared off the scientific pursuits for life.

While not yet published in the literature, rest assured that I am (allegedly) known in the community of AMATEUR researchers as somewhat of a mixed persona - willingness to put self in harms way suggests idiocy, yet the samples of innovation and invention suggest otherwise. If only I could put an end to the fucking idiots emailing me stupid questions...

I have great respect for the wise and knowledgeable people here - they are the type of person I aspire to become.

But you sir, you appear to have some vindictive side in you - protected by the anonymity of the Internet - you embark on what you see as 'idiot bashing' or 'flaming'. Rather immature - the type of thing I expect from First Years in schools (13/14 y/o people). Please, let us put this pathetic quarrel behind us and behave like proper gentleman/ scientists on the pursuit of knowledge.

densest - 1-1-2010 at 13:35

More on the original topic: I once spilled a flask of aqua regia on my hand - luckily it was somewhat depleted since it was being used to dissolve gold-bearing metal powders. It felt hot (it was at least warm from the reaction) in the 5 seconds or so it took to get it under the cold water faucet. For the next couple of months, my hand was purple (purple of Cassius, prepared in situ

). It slowly flaked off....

I must have pretty tough hands - the standard acids (hydrochloric, nitric, sulfuric) either concentrated or dilute don't do much if I wash very quickly. Alkali, though, I'm -really- careful with. Picking up glowing pyrex with bare hands must do something to toughen the skin. Occasionally it causes the brain to go into gear, but not often enough.

entropy51 - 1-1-2010 at 14:29

Quote:

Picking up glowing pyrex with bare hands must do something to toughen the skin.

You're in good company. Stories about Bunsen say he could take the top of a red hot crucible without using tongs.

One of his students said he'd often smelled "burning Bunsen".

Popi1955 - 19-1-2010 at 18:43

i havent got the chance to try strong acid since all i got is hydrochloric 32% and hydrogen peroxide 35%, the hydrochloric is lame, if i havent cuted my skin it would not affect undameged tissu, the hydrogen peroxide is much much more powerfull then the acid, well, it still dosent burn u with contact with your skin, but it can make burns on undameged tissu after few mins, the burns were not so deep, so i decided to try mixture of hydrogen peroxide the hydrochloric acid, the hydrogen peroxide makes the hydrochloric acid to decompose into hydrogen and chlorice, witch need to be more corassive, it still dident had much affect, so i found out that if it used on dameged tissu the affects and faster and much stronger, no need for the tissu to be open, like a deep cut or something, a scratch is enough, i stiil have on my hand unheald wounds, i did it about 3 weeks ago, one of the wounds looked like a hole in my hand, i still havent got to try stronger acids, or sodium hydroxide that i would lovely try, ill upload photos someother time, sorry for my english

MattVon - 25-7-2012 at 16:45

I believe that the free H+ ions in an acid solution hydrolyzes (break down) the proteins and cells on your skin. Some acids like sulfuric and phosphoric acid also have dehydrating properties, meaning they suck the water right out from your cells, and they can result in thermal burns.

My first burn was from sulfuric acid about half a year ago. Ate straight from my right index finger to nearly the muscles, and left a scar. And since then I was a little bit paranoid of acids. I wore ridiculously heavy-duty gloves and safety gear.

I also had worked with hydrochloric, acetic, formic, and a bunch of other acids. I've been also sometimes been working with hydroflouric acid in the lab, but I'm not coming close to that terribly dangerous stuff after my first acid burn..

[Edited on 26-7-2012 by MattVon]

mineralman - 26-7-2012 at 10:44

When I was but a mere teen, I decided to boil down a 3ltr pan full of old filtered battery acid on my oil fired aga top. I was unaware that the casserole pan I used wasn't to be used str8 on to such a high heat.
YEP you know what comes next, I watched as it shattered/exploded into a huge cloud of white bellowing acid vapore. I swear it shattered in slow motion, I can still picture the fragments of the pan flying in all directions and being replaced with this never ending cloud of acid fumes.
I only got a few splatter burns fortunately, the house however, was far less fortunate then I.
My initial reaction was to exit the house into the courtyard/beer garden, ( the house was an old 14 room pub/grub & rooms to rent ), What I learned that day about acid fumes, the never ending white smoke that came off of that contsantly hot stove went on for the best part of two hours.
I was outside for 1/4hr before I realised this was not going to be over soon, and that I would have to return to open all windows, doors & skylights. 4 in/open everything in the room/out stealth operations later, id opened everything in 8 rooms on 3 floors, chokeing, tears stinging my eyes and almost passing out twice, all I could do was watch is horror as half the house was bellowing out white smoke, crowds of neighbours started collecting and laughing out " what did ya do this time?" man oh man what a mess 3ltrs of dilute sulphuric acid can do to a houses decore.
I hate to think of the mess I could/would have been in if it had splattered just that little bit further.

I now have a healthy fear of acids and put 5 layers of clothing, full acid gauntlets, face shield & buckets of neutralising solution on hand, just in case. MM

JeanHarris - 30-7-2012 at 03:36

That's good precaution !
I just want to say that when I was swimming in my pool with swim fins, the chlorinated water had gone reacted with my fins and I got weird type of allergy. Why this happened so? Any ideas?

Antimatter - 30-7-2012 at 14:57

Acid simply burns your skin by breaking down the proteins, lipids, and fats that constitutes your skin. This is often called hydrolysis. The exact concert of how this works is a little complicated, but in laymen's terms, a cell-seeking agent like the H+ ions in an acid solution attacks the carbons that make up skin cells, therefore damaging them. Bases work the same way, however they tend to be more insidious than acids. Bases slowly eat away at your skin, while acids attack so fast you can feel it.

One of my most interesting acid accident is about two months ago when I was working with some highly concentrated (about 36%) hydrochloric acid. I was carrying it in an Florence flask, but I was a little too hasty in setting it down. I placed the flask quickly on my worktable so I can reach for my other reagents, but I placed the flat bottom towards a too sharp an angle and it tipped over and spilled the acid all over my pants and part of my lab coat. Instinctively, I grabbed a bottle labeled sodium bicarbonate and dumped it onto the splash area.

Dumb mistake, because I was a rather sloppy chemist. I had accidently labeled a bottle of sodium HYDROXIDE as sodium bicarbonate. The exothermic neutrlization nearly burned me, and now I have two caustics on my pants. So I ended up with a bad rash on my legs and a wasted pair of pants, but I counted myself pretty lucky for that one.

triplepoint - 31-7-2012 at 07:43

Many years ago (in school lab), I spattered some HCL on my leg. I didn't notice it until I saw the holes in my pants. Being a stupid kid, I didn't realize what happens next. When I later took my pants off, I observed several pits burned into my leg. Luckily, it was not more serious than that.

This is slightly off topic, but it was not my first mishap with chemistry while in school. When I was about 10 years old, I picked up a lit alcohol burner. It tipped and set my arm alight. Lucky again, the alcohol burned off without even making my arm hot.

Even farther back, I managed to cause a classroom to be evacuated when I demonstrated a volcano project. The volcano was clay with a pan set in the top for ammonium dichromate. When I lit the dichromate, it ignited the newspaper I had used to stuff the clay volcano. The flames then caused the clay to explode. Now that was a volcano!

This was all 30-40 years ago. I am considerable more circumspect and careful these days (otherwise I would probably not be able to write this).

Mailinmypocket - 20-9-2013 at 11:32

Formic acid did a nice little job on my hand. The tip of a pipette with a residue of 88% formic acid touched me, it started to burn pretty badly after about 5 seconds, it was washed off after 10 seconds. Minutes later the skin was peeling, the next day is this- ouch.

ave369 - 9-9-2015 at 02:33

I've run into an interesting effect. After repeated exposure to various weaker solutions of acids and alkalis, the skin on my fingertips becomes thicker, horn-like and somewhat microcracked. In this state, my fingertips appear to be immune to everything less bad than 95% sulfuric. Steaming and rubbing appears to remove the horn layer from the skin, and the immunity goes with it.

aga - 9-9-2015 at 12:40

The same happens with physical abrasion/pressure on a daily basis.

The dermis builds up into a callous, which is basically loads of dead tissue between the outside world and your more important tissues.

Expendable skin effectively.

If you remove the repeated need for it, then it goes away.

If you're carful to avoid the underlying tissues, you can cut chunks away with a scalpel (wear safety goggles in case you go crazy and hit an artery).

battoussai114 - 9-9-2015 at 12:59

The other day we were calculating the dissolution heat for benzoic acid in an experimental physico-chemistry class and my partner managed to shatter the titration apparatus (containing NaOH) while I was agitating the benzoic acid. The basic spray went all over my hands and on my coat on the chest area. I washed the base off my hands and finished the experiment, after all this thing took long enough and I was hungry as heck. When I got home I noticed a slight irritation in my skin but nothing major. And that was the closest I got from a chemical burn.... See a chem. E. Undergrad life is boring even when lab accidents happen...

annaandherdad - 10-9-2015 at 06:06

I don't know if this link will work for everybody, but the story is relevant as well because it is leading to the restriction in sales of chemicals. I can't organize well what I think about the story so I'll just post the link.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/10/world/asia/with-red-lipsti...

battoussai114 - 10-9-2015 at 07:26

Quote: Originally posted by annaandherdad

I don't know if this link will work for everybody, but the story is relevant as well because it is leading to the restriction in sales of chemicals. I can't organize well what I think about the story so I'll just post the link.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/10/world/asia/with-red-lipsti...

In the university a friend of mine studies, a freshman had retinal detachment because another student assaulted him with acid. Obviously it wasn't concentrated H2SO4, otherwise he'd have lost his eye... and the assaulter was someone with access to analytic reagents in the university labs.
And I had no point in sharing this other than saying that it also happens outside India.

IMO, crazy people will manage to hurt others no matter how much we limit access to "dangerous stuff". As someone once said: "A lock only serves to keep a honest person out". Even with the restrictive weapon laws where I live, punks still get guns and shot each other in night clubs. Even if you need to be 18 to drive people in their late 40s still run over and kill bikers. Restricting chemicals because they can be used to harm people is more or less the same as wanting to restrict the selling of wood saws and kitchen knifes.

Sure this is the opinion of a home chemist who doesn't want the government to take his toys away... soooo yeah, not exactly unbiased.

Deathunter88 - 11-9-2015 at 03:21

Don't know where you live but where I live you need to register with your ID with the police every time you buy a kitchen knife, saw, or matches.

aga - 11-9-2015 at 08:53

Fists, Feet, Teeth, Rocks and Sticks tend to be unlicenced.

Also freely available.

100PercentChemistry - 27-3-2016 at 18:14

Nile red made a video on sulfuric,hydrochloric, and nitric acids on your skin. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeVZQoJ5FdE

Rhodanide - 23-1-2017 at 08:27

I think I've been burned by more shit than I'd like to admit. Seven scars from H2SO4, one from H2SO5 (that was a baaaad day) one from Hydrazine, NaOH... but nothing- and I mean N O T H I N G compared to getting warm, ~72% HClO4 on a scrape when the test tube broke. Never knew my voice could go that high, or that loud when it happened. :/