Sciencemadness Discussion Board

new ernergetic materials

Krypton - 4-4-2003 at 08:58

I think the nitration of pentazole gave a strong energetic material.


for instance


PHILOU Zrealone - 7-4-2003 at 04:00

What made you think that?

Cyclopentazole should be CN5 squeleton!
The possible nitration in 3 would mean that C has 2 H and one of the N has 1:
CH2(-N=N-)2NH -HNO3-> CH2(-N=N-)2N-NO2 + H2O


Should then be also investigated!


Nick F - 7-4-2003 at 05:18

5 membered nitrogen rings do not exist (yet :)), except the pentazole ion :(. Even that has only been isolated as a compund with AsF6-, I think, and that exploded while they were carrying out tests on it. You might want to check that, there may have been more developments but that was the last that I heard on the subject.
Tetrazole exists, I have 2kg of 5-aminotetrazole. Even on it's own it is quite energetic, if you heat some up on a spoon after a short while it will start a fairly violent self-sustaining decomposition.
The nitrate salt is really good stuff, it is the only nitrate salt I've encountered that is easy to set off with a hammer blow :D. I would guess that it would be powerful compared to other nitrates, too. A great use for it is 5-ATZN dynamite, but I don't make it too often since I have not found any safety data for the nitrate. Also when I make a batch of 5-ATZN I end up burning most of it since it makes a really nice flame :).

Krypton - 7-4-2003 at 07:00


Krypton - 7-4-2003 at 08:26

Here a little draw of nitropentazole.

nitrocyclopentazole.JPG - 33kB

BASF - 7-4-2003 at 13:35


Tetrazole exists, I have 2kg of 5-aminotetrazole. Even on it's own it is quite energetic, if you heat some up on a spoon after a short while it will start a fairly violent self-sustaining decomposition.

Where did you get that stuff?
- You must have been selling your home for that quantity i guess....


Really keen, HLR

madscientist - 7-4-2003 at 14:37

Nick, you should try oxidizing the amino group in your 5-aminotetrazole to a nitro group, ozone being the oxidant. Just imagine 5-nitrotetrazole! :D

Nick F - 8-4-2003 at 04:25

I would rather not reveal my exact source, but I will say that a bit of searching on the net and a few nice e-mails can get you a lot of nice things :D:D:D:D:D.
The original plan was to make 5-aminotetrazole dinitramide, N4HCNH3(+) (-)N(NO2)2, but without dry ice (ie, using my freezer which gets to around -22*C) the yield of KDN that I've been getting is hardly worth bothering to make, and I don't get dry ice very often.
HNO2 turns it into ditetrazolyltriazine, which seems surprisingly stable (the sample I made is still here, and still seems normal...), but all oxidising agents I've tried so far turn it into a load of bubbles ;).


Krypton - 9-4-2003 at 09:22

Why ditetrazoyltriazine and not 2,4,6-tritetrazoyl-1,3,5-triazine ?
A other examble of the tetrazine family is
3,6-bis(3,5-diaminopyrazoyl)-1,2,4,5-tetrazine a stable expensive secondary explosive.:o

Krypton - 9-4-2003 at 09:54

sorry, a little copy mistake in my last post.
The correct name of course


PHILOU Zrealone - 10-4-2003 at 06:02

Ok! I see!
N5-NO2 thus nitrocyclopentaazapentadiene!


NH2-CHN4 -->
perchlorate NH2-CHN4.HClO4
nitrate NH2-CHN4.HNO3
nitroformate NH2-CHN4.HC(NO2)3



Krypton - 13-4-2003 at 18:07

Why not




the topic question
was nitrocyclopentazole
and not


PHILOU Zrealone - 14-4-2003 at 05:08

>pentanitrocyclopentaazapentadiene >NNO2-NNO2-NNO2-NNO2-NNO2-
-This is pentanitrocyclopentaazapentane!
No dienicdiaza -N=N- here!

>pentanitrocyclopentaazapentadienecyclopentadi>ene >[{5[(-N-N-)2N-NO2]}C5H]
-Could you make a drawing, I think there is something wrong here ;) :P

>the topic question was nitrocyclopentazole >and not nitropentazole
-Unless I'm wrong you wrote in the first post:
"I think the nitration of pentazole gave a strong energetic material. N5-NO2
for instance 3-nitro-1,2,3,4,5-cyclopentazole"

I don't know what to think or to answer, you are rather confusing :o :o :( :( :) :)

Krypton - 14-4-2003 at 09:23


When your cyclopentaazapentadiene nitrated with five than the nito name


and the formula name


and your aza name



The draw to the double-cyclo-compound later !!

Krypton - 15-4-2003 at 11:02

I`ve upload a picture to of


with the double bound of the nitroaza to the cyclopropane.

Krypton - 15-4-2003 at 11:09

it`s of course the

double bound of the nitroaza to the cyclopentane and not cyclopropane !!!


Krypton - 16-4-2003 at 13:13

I`ve uploaded some example of non-caged
cyclo n5 and c5 components and their combinations
to ftp.


I don`t know, the electron bounds in example 1 can be true with 4 ????


BASF - 7-5-2003 at 06:14

I wonder wether it would be possible to brominate RDX...
Mild conditions.

The problem is, i know few to nothing about nitramine-chemistry.....

This could yield an explosive with zero to positive oxygen-balance and an incredible density.

The stability could be still good if bromine is used instead of chlorine, which is also less selective.

I mention this idea especially because RDX is within reach without using acetic anhydride, bromination should also be easy.
I have a procedure on how to free bromine from bromides, the stage of reaction can be monitored by the coulor of the solution.
When the bromine reacts, the solution slowly decoulorizes.


[Edited on 7-5-2003 by BASF]

Krypton - 8-5-2003 at 04:55


What will you do with this stuff ?
Something like explosives for grandmothers.

BASF - 8-5-2003 at 04:59

I still prefer realizable ideas.

PHILOU Zrealone - 2-6-2003 at 10:49

Good idea BASF!
halogenation of RDX might work but as you said the C-N link might not survive the halide.
Anyway the halide will have higher densities and must then because their OB is improved lead to higher brisance and VOD performances.

(-CHX-N(NO2)-)3 where X = F, Cl, Br or I
Those haloRDX are also interesting because they might be precursor for couplage reactions of other explosophoric groups.

Maybe a different way of action must be investigated!
CH3-O-CH=O + NH2-NO2 --> CH3-O-CH=N-NO2
3CH3-O-CH=N-NO2 --> (-CH(OCH3)-N(NO2)-)3
(-CH(OCH3)-N(NO2)-)3 +3 HBr(g) --> (-CH(OH)-N(NO2)-)3 + CH3Br(g) or (-CHBr-N(NO2)-)3 + CH3OH

Krypton - 2-6-2003 at 15:22

Bromination !

PHILOU Zrealone - 5-6-2003 at 14:26

Sorry to say but genealogy has nothing to do with bromination.
Unless it was a bad taste joke :mad::mad::mad::mad:, you have made a mistake in the link!

Krypton - 5-6-2003 at 16:06

This was a insinuation to some members in the forum which scattering some topic themes with crap. :mad::mad:

PHILOU Zrealone - 6-6-2003 at 09:12

Sabotage on sciencemadness?

BASF - 6-6-2003 at 09:58


Good idea BASF!

:D wow, from the big master. Let´s mark the day red in the calendar. ;)

Hmm, would the bromine change places with the nitro-group on the aza-function?

This would be bad... maybe one could attach a protective-group to the the aza-function, then halogenate then remove the protective-group and oxidize. complicated this got again. :mad:

BTW, pat. GB 615793 mentions a linear nitramine with 3 nitro-groups on the aza-functions and 2 nitrate-groups at the ends of the chain. It has a MW over 400g/mol, despite this it performed very well in the Trauzl test(580ccm), and this at a density of 0.7g/ccm...

Not a big surprise then, this simple molecule with OB near zero is sensitive as hell(3 times more sensitive than PETN)...

Maybe stabilization via hydrogen-bonding? - What if one would replace two of the nitro-groups with 2 -NH2-functions instead of it ....


Theoretic - 18-11-2004 at 11:56

A nice link

So you can make sodium tetrazolide by reacting hydrogen cyanide and sodium azide. To get 1-nitrotetrazole, react this with a nitryl salt. And to get 1-azido-5-nitrotetrazole, do the above mentioned procedure but use cyanogen chloride (if you dare :cool: ) or, alternately, use chlorazide and hydrogen cyanide and then react with a nitryl salt or use straight nitryl cyanide, then react your product with sodium azide.
To get 5-azido-1-nitrotetrazole, use cyanogen azide and hydrazoc acid, then react with a nitryl salt.
Both of these compounds have perfect OB and presumably VoDs, as 5-nitrotetrazole has a VoD of more than 8.5 km/s.