Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Paris green and various substitutes for blue stars

Paris green and various substitutes for blue stars

sum - 13-1-2015 at 05:36

Anyone tell me about copper(||)acetoarsenite (Paris green).M.For.-cu(c2h3o2)2.3cu(aso2)2.

copper(||)acetoarsanite (paris green)

sum - 13-1-2015 at 09:24

Bert - 13-1-2015 at 10:08

Quote: Originally posted by sum

Anyone tell me about copper(||)acetoarsenite (Paris green).M.For.-cu(c2h3o2)2.3cu(aso2)2.

PLEASE read the FAQ about posting-

Particularly, this:

Quote:

Questions that provide background information and show effort are more likely to receive good responses.

I understand that English may not be your first language, but you need to more exactly tell people what your question is.

Also: there are books in the Sciencemadness.org library that have information on what (my best guess?!) you are interested in. Try looking in Tenney Davis Chemistry of Powder and Explosives.

Paris green is considered an obsolete material in commercial fireworks making in the USA. Other Copper compounds have replaced it such as Copper oxide, Copper carbonate, Copper oxychloride or Copper benzoate.

sum - 13-1-2015 at 23:30

OK.I read FAQ(not proper way) but understand what I do.and about English in India its compulsory to read because this is international language.(my thinking we are fool not wise as Chinese) . u r right Mr.Bert that is our 2nd language.matter is that in ever formula have Paris green but here no one known about this copper compound.some one says that is ban item so I ask 4 this,..........

Bert - 14-1-2015 at 09:55

You still have not said WHAT you want to make! Is it blue fireworks stars.

Below, these are OBSOLETE mixtures. Paris green for Copper, calomel (mercurous chloride, Hg2Cl2) as a chlorine donor- FOR INFORMATION ONLY! Do not try to make, even if you could find the chemicals, these are mixtures from 100 years ago or more.

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This is a (more modern!) blue star mixture WITH Potassium chlorate and WITHOUT Paris green. HCB is hexachlorobenzene.

Below is a range of mixtures, showing some more modern materials without use of Paris green.

[Edited on 14-1-2015 by Bert]

sum - 15-1-2015 at 00:04

I am sorry sir.I want to say what is that compound and how its make.no information on net. Try to get this but no one know it and some says this is ban item.(plz handle my English).thanks
HCB is also ban compound in India or not sale any person(only industrial uses).

woelen - 15-1-2015 at 00:27

There is a good reason for banning Paris green in fireworks. It is VERY toxic due to its arsenic content. I hardly can imagine that this once was a main source for blue colors in fireworks. There are so many other perfectly suitable copper compounds, it is the copper which gives the blue color, not the arsenic, so other copper compounds do the job as well.

The same is true for HgCl2. This also certainly should not have a place in fireworks, due to its mercury content. If you want chlorine in fireworks, then there are many other alternatives. Even stuff like HCB is not as nasty, especially if only a small amount of this is used and all of it is burned up in the composition leaving behind only CO2/carbonate and chloride.

In the Netherlands nowadays the use of lead compounds is banned as well. Consumer fireworks must be free of lead, e.g. PbO2 may not be used anymore as oxidizer. Certain crackling mixes (Bert certainly knows the details about them) are not allowed anymore, but I'm sure there are alternatives for that as well. IIRC bismuth(III) oxide is a suitable alternative, although that stuff is quite expensive.

There even are voices, advocating the banning of barium salts in fireworks, but in practice, these still are used extensively in fireworks.

Bert - 15-1-2015 at 06:43

Quote: Originally posted by sum

I am sorry sir.I want to say what is that compound and how its make.no information on net. Try to get this but no one know it and some says this is ban item.(plz handle my English).thanks
HCB is also ban compound in India or not sale any person(only industrial uses).

Can you get Copper carbonate or black Copper oxide. Both work just fine-

Chlorinated rubber (Parlon), PVC, Saran resin, chlorinated wax- All will replace hexachlorobenzene, with some adjustment for their different weight % Chlorine content, and differing fuel values.

If you want to make SMALL STARS, no bigger than 3mm Dia.! A good mix is Potassium chlorate (oxidizer), black Copper oxide (colorant) and lactose (both fuel and binder). The Chlorine content of the chlorate is just enough so no additional chlorine donor is required. Color goes bad, becomes pale and greenish if stars are too big though!

As Woelen says, don't bother to make Paris green. It is not needed, learn to replace it with safer chemicals.

Fantasma4500 - 15-1-2015 at 07:05

i think he just wanted to know where to get hold of some arsenic compounds well fitting for fireworks, im not sure if he has even considered there may be better alternatives..

anyhow, if you want to make it, it would seem as mixing 1 mole
Cu(C2H3O2)2 and 3 moles Cu(AsO2)2.
i would however strongly disadvice you to attempt this, not sure if im able to express why..

Bert - 15-1-2015 at 07:32

When I was a teen, and wooly mammoths roamed the land, ARPA NET didn't let kids search for information "on line" (and our Heath Kit computers mostly didn't have modems anyhow).

So I read books. OLD BOOKS. And found that heating thin Copper wire in a covered crucible under an excess of Sulfur produced black Copper sulfide. Which DID work as a blue flame colorant in chlorate mixtures, albeit sensitizing them greatly... A version of the sugar blue posted above, made with sucrose. Another version made with clear shellac as binder, straight from a can of Zinser. Not the best, but it was blue!

My crucible was a 4" long piece of 1 1/2" Dia. Iron pipe with 2 end caps. Upper cap had a small hole drilled to relieve gas pressure. It worked. God, it was hard to grind that Copper sulfide.

[Edited on 15-1-2015 by Bert]

Fantasma4500 - 15-1-2015 at 12:52

recall to have use copper powder from CuCl2 and Al, and heated it with sulfur, im almost totally certain i had a sulfide produced, this was proven by excessively heating the thing until no more sulfur was left and acid was added to the powder that was left behind, or well at least solid
i wonder if you could just run electrolysis of molten sulfur with copper?

Bert - 15-1-2015 at 13:15

Why bother with electrolysis when the fused method is so easy?

Copper doesn't need to be powdered, reaction might be faster than liked with too small particle size- And perhaps then your CuS is all over the hood instead of staying in the crucible nicely? Have you ever mixed fine Zinc powder and Sulfur, then heated? FLASH!

When we made CuS in high school chemistry as first part of the "Copper lab", we wound some clean electrical copper wire into a spiral over a pencil, and the sulfide formed was in the exact shape and size of Copper spiral we had put into the crucible