Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Flesh rotting

2 drops - 19-2-2016 at 07:00

Drain Cleaner mishap. Hand is gone but flesh is still rotting 5 years later, from a chemical burn. So I am looking for answers from anyone. it not personal, found it on the web, and they have given nothing on chemicals in the product. That being said (From my studies) the world is not labeling correctly and crap is getting out to the public, so it could be anything in the product even something other than the typical drain cleaners stuff, tell me what you think it is. See the post is below (Super Acid?) https://twodropletsblog.wordpress.com/2016/02/16/two-droplet...

elementcollector1 - 19-2-2016 at 07:59

That must be some pretty impressive chemical burn, to affect skin 5 years after the fact. The two types of drain cleaner involve either sulfuric acid, or sodium hydroxide and aluminum shavings. Sometimes there's minute amounts of other stuff too. But, in my experience, nothing in there would lead to such an unusual case.
Quote:
He had grafts and flaps and even had his hand sewn into his stomach for three weeks.


Can someone tell me why this would even remotely help? I'm so confused.

My bullshit detector *almost* went off at this post, it seems rather unlikely that a simple drain cleaner could do such major damage (let alone "two drops" of the same). Upon reverse-image-searching Google, I found that all the images are original to the "Two Droplets" blog, so this isn't some kind of creepypasta. This might seem like an odd tangent, but I've seen too many faked posts like this and I want people to know that this is too legitimate to brush off.

Hot sulfuric acid and molten sodium hydroxide can be ruled out, which makes me think some organic enzyme in the mix is what's causing this. Probably something that wouldn't normally make it into the mix, considering similar cases do not seem to have occurred. I think the only real conclusion I can make from this is that this was a horrifically unlucky coincidence.

Deathunter88 - 19-2-2016 at 08:13

This seems very suspiciously like a hoax. The only thing that I can think of that could be causing this is something biological. Sulfuric acid and sodium hydroxide as elementcollector1 has said is not likely to be the culprit. There have been many new "green" enzyme based drain cleaners recently which could be the case, but still unlikely. The part that really made me suspicious is how she claims that even after the amputation the "disease" returned. She should watch Nile Red's video where he pours different types of acid on his hand. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeVZQoJ5FdE

One final thing, the article states that you took a photo of the ingredients on the bottle. Perhaps you can post that photo here? Or if as you say you are afraid the company will sue you then instead of the photo just post the ingredients using normal text.

If this is real, my greatest condolences. If this is fake, congrats on getting undeserved attention.

2 drops - 19-2-2016 at 09:07

Thanks Deathhunter88,
you may be right.... I don't know but I find it hard to believe she would be afraid of being sued. That would not be my concern if my husbands hand is in the trash can! Thanks I forgot how many people may be looking for attention out there.

elemencollector1,
I know that they do place body parts in the body cavity to keep them alive till they can be safely put back on safely. That being said everything is changing in the products today so I thought it could be real or a crazy flesh eating bacteria from the hospital.

CuReUS - 19-2-2016 at 09:18

Quote: Originally posted by Deathunter88  
.The part that really made me suspicious is how she claims that even after the amputation the "disease" returned

there is a chance that the disease could spread from the hand to the forearm.Its because the tendons that control the movements of our fingers have long sheaths that enclose them.These sheaths extend into the forearm.If the pathogen can get into the sheath,which it could have,considering the extensive damage that was done ,it can easily spread from the hand to the forearm and amputation will not stop it.
the first thing that came to my mind was flesh eating bacteria(necrotizing fascitis),but the fact that he took a lot of antibiotics ruled that out
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necrotizing_fasciitis

what if the drain cleaner incident was a coincidence and not the cause,could it be due to some insect bite ?

take my advice with a grain of salt,i am not an expert,just trying to help

2 drops - 19-2-2016 at 09:44

found this.....Salmonella contamination of Enzymatic Drain Cleaners in 1967 in a book (Morbidty and mortality) by US National office of vital statistics National Communicable Disease center. Maybe this drain cleaner got pulled of the shelf and with the antibiotic resistant bugs out there.? I just wanted to hear your thoughts, I knew you all would have a better Idea if this is chemical craziness or not. Thanks :)

Sulaiman - 19-2-2016 at 10:00

I am NOT an expert, my first thought was that it could be a biological pathogen
but in the back of my mind Fluorine compounds ring a bell,
IF there was a fluoride in the sink (e.g. toothpaste) then some nasty fluorine containing chemical could have been created,
some fluorine compounds do cause necrosis.
JUST A WILD GUESS.

elementcollector1 - 19-2-2016 at 10:35

What I'm concerned about is that if this is a fake... where'd the pictures come from?

halogen - 19-2-2016 at 11:58

Nah, no, no, no. Not fluorine.

"The chemical began to eat away at the skin. We lived 5 minutes from a local hospital, so I snapped a photo of the ingredients on the bottle and we headed off to the emergency room."

Didn't say he washed it off! Probably too obvious to be worth mentioning though.

The drain cleaner opened the wound large enough to allow colonization, but otherwise the chemical was certainly not the cause.

See or contact a microbiologist if you haven't. Though you have been treated by so many doctors, with drug resistance being so common, the microbe could be of any kind. It might even be a hospital acquired infection, which, ironically, you wouldn't have if you had stayed home and rubbed wound in the dirt of your garden - it's only possible, I'm not speaking of likelihood.

My teacher had a friend with gangrene - stress alone had weakened his immune system. So I looked the thing up some years ago: you understand I'm not a microbiologist or even lay expert. Though it is obviously not a direct chemical effect. The chemical would be gone.

There are many, not just one as you might think, varieties of bacteria that can have the effect.

Leprosy is for example present on the skin of many more humans than exhibit symptoms. Ordinarily, the immune system is adequate. Even leprosy is developing resistances, there are colonies today.

XeonTheMGPony - 19-2-2016 at 12:37

makes me think of a particular soil bacteria, it is opportunistic one, the drain cleaner simply created an entry vector.

I would hope they did a very solid analysis of the necrotised flesh for bacterial bodies and markers.

this is an Analise first then act situation throwing things at random simply does more damage.

Seems to been poorly managed, sadly that's the norm even in Canada our medical system is rather useless less you're hit by a buss.

If this where me, I'd be insisting on some serious lab work and see a specialist in parasitic organisms.

I had a splash of drain water hit my hand at work doing some plumbing, the day after I spent 3 days with the worst runs and throwing up you can imagin, I was barely able to get out of bed and had to force electrolyte vitamin water down my self to keep hydrated and most the time it came right back out.

Sink drains, and air filters are the most dangerous things you will ever handl in life (I worked in the sewage treatment water filtration industry for 5 years and I feared nothing more then a bathroom/kitchen sink or a poorly changed air filter) These are bacteria/fungie collectors on a mass scale!

hissingnoise - 19-2-2016 at 12:47

If genuine, it's an horrific and sad story ─ and I hope the new infection can be stopped . . . ?

I just have to wonder if taking samples of material from the waste-pipe to check its chemical make-up and its biota might have been of some use?

XeonTheMGPony - 19-2-2016 at 12:57

Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise  
If genuine, it's an horrific and sad story ─ and I hope the new infection can be stopped . . . ?

I just have to wonder if taking samples of material from the waste-pipe to check its chemical make-up and its biota might have been of some use?



It would have been of great advantage. But who would of thought an infection would get a hold given the highely cuastic/acedic environmnet of the drain cleaner!

hissingnoise - 19-2-2016 at 13:08

Bacteria that are acidophile can thrive @ pH <3 and alkaliphiles @ pH >9 . . .

zed - 19-2-2016 at 14:46

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/white+clot+s...

2 drops - 19-2-2016 at 18:27

Thanks Sulaiman that is all I am looking for.

2 drops - 19-2-2016 at 18:35

Great reminder on the crap that is in our filters and drains, it could be anything living in there. And what was the drain used for.?
... Thanks XeonTheMGPony

2 drops - 19-2-2016 at 18:37

I will be thinking differently from now on hissingnoise

JJay - 20-2-2016 at 02:18

These look like authentic photos of someone with a third degree burn. The plight of the individual who actually received the burn is unfortunate, but the story is a hoax.

j_sum1 - 20-2-2016 at 02:31

Quote: Originally posted by JJay  
These look like authentic photos of someone with a third degree burn. The plight of the individual who actually received the burn is unfortunate, but the story is a hoax.
What makes you convinced that the story is a hoax, JJ?

My guess is that it is a pathogen of some kind, probably bacterial. In that sense, almost totally unrelated to the drain cleaner. The fact that the problem has spread pretty much rules out a burn -- heat or chemical.

Interesting thought though zed. If it was me, I would be getting some tests quickly to rule that one out.

[edit]
Reading further in the blog, she is doing some research along the lines of white clot syndrome.
The drain cleaner was a combination of NaOH and KOH. So, incidental to the symptoms being experienced.

[Edited on 20-2-2016 by j_sum1]

JJay - 20-2-2016 at 03:03

The story lacks certain important details that would be included if true yet stresses certain others that are relatively mundane. Someone who is making a heartfelt plea about her husband doesn't describe him in bland terms like "26 year-old man" - she'd be saying "healthy, hard-working father" or something like that. Someone in that situation who is reaching out to the Internet wouldn't mind sharing his/her name and would be including pictures of family / etc. Also, the story contains false motivational messages that wouldn't be shared by someone in that situation.

Also, just look at the pictures--it's a regular heat burn. I'm not going to post other images here, but search google images if you want to see more of the same.

As far as I'm concerned, this is definitely a hoax and should be revealed as such. What is this person trying to do - get drain cleaner off of the shelves? Get lost, creep.

[Edited on 20-2-2016 by JJay]

j_sum1 - 20-2-2016 at 03:51

Ok.
Snopes has it as "undetermined" at the moment.


The glaring inconsistency I note is that the blog comments state NaOH and KOH. The post above states "super acid". If she had truly been seeking solutions to the situation for five years and thought the chemical was somehow to blame and had been talking to health professionals, she would not by this stage be confusing an acid with a base.

I am tending to agree with you now, JJ.

[Edited on 20-2-2016 by j_sum1]

Random - 20-2-2016 at 04:00

Quote: Originally posted by XeonTheMGPony  


I had a splash of drain water hit my hand at work doing some plumbing, the day after I spent 3 days with the worst runs and throwing up you can imagin, I was barely able to get out of bed and had to force electrolyte vitamin water down my self to keep hydrated and most the time it came right back out.

Sink drains, and air filters are the most dangerous things you will ever handl in life (I worked in the sewage treatment water filtration industry for 5 years and I feared nothing more then a bathroom/kitchen sink or a poorly changed air filter) These are bacteria/fungie collectors on a mass scale!


I worked as a plumber on a construction site and since it was a hot day, I drank a huge amount of water outta the older water pipes. I forgot to bring my own. Big mistake. I could barely catch a breath next few days and had temperature almost 42. I thought I was going to die and I almost stopped breathing. Except at high body temp you feel somewhat high.

Next thing I had few skin cuts and I was dissasembling sewage pipes, and the stuff from the washing machine sewage pipe (is that's hoe it's called in english) was one of the most disgusting stuff I have ever seen. Luckily nothing happened this time.

XeonTheMGPony - 20-2-2016 at 09:15

Quote: Originally posted by 2 drops  
Great reminder on the crap that is in our filters and drains, it could be anything living in there. And what was the drain used for.?
... Thanks XeonTheMGPony


Any common drain contains this biofloura, the drain that poisened me was a bathroom sink in a hotel.

They are extreme risks for bacteria and fungie infections as are air filters. Most people get lucky and never have a problem, but your case is a reminder, another tech was changing a filter in a high rise and got a scratch, week later half his body was paralyzed from some infection!

They saved him and he recovered a small amount of movement but was never able to work again!

That's why lab work is very important.

XeonTheMGPony - 20-2-2016 at 09:22

Quote: Originally posted by Random  
Quote: Originally posted by XeonTheMGPony  


I had a splash of drain water hit my hand at work doing some plumbing, the day after I spent 3 days with the worst runs and throwing up you can imagin, I was barely able to get out of bed and had to force electrolyte vitamin water down my self to keep hydrated and most the time it came right back out.

Sink drains, and air filters are the most dangerous things you will ever handl in life (I worked in the sewage treatment water filtration industry for 5 years and I feared nothing more then a bathroom/kitchen sink or a poorly changed air filter) These are bacteria/fungie collectors on a mass scale!


I worked as a plumber on a construction site and since it was a hot day, I drank a huge amount of water outta the older water pipes. I forgot to bring my own. Big mistake. I could barely catch a breath next few days and had temperature almost 42. I thought I was going to die and I almost stopped breathing. Except at high body temp you feel somewhat high.

Next thing I had few skin cuts and I was dissasembling sewage pipes, and the stuff from the washing machine sewage pipe (is that's hoe it's called in english) was one of the most disgusting stuff I have ever seen. Luckily nothing happened this time.



It is nasty, but at least by the time it is there microbiological competition has narrowed the floura down to a few microbes so you know what is in the mix in general, Given the choice of working on a hot tub or a sewage tank, I'll take the tank! badly don chem in a hot tub is a perfect breeding ground as well with selective environmental pressures for nasty stuff.

(Most hot tubes I'd shock befor going near the plumbing!)

Sulaiman - 20-2-2016 at 10:46

At the factory where I work we had a lot of plumbing changes,
The 'work' washing areas ... OK
The toilets ... slightly smelly
The 'kitcken' sink ... Smelly
The waste pipe from the dish washer ... EVACUATE !

hissingnoise - 20-2-2016 at 12:36

Here's one of a number of articles (with graphic pictures) on heparin-induced skin necroses.

The damage appears very similar to that shown in the pics on your excellent blog . . . ?

pneumatician - 20-2-2016 at 18:07

If it were me, I would take what industry use anti meat rotting, military, water purification facilities... so simple?

Mabus - 21-2-2016 at 07:40

I'm no doctor, but could it have some autoimmune cause?

2 drops - 22-2-2016 at 16:50

Sorry for it was me that wrote "super acid" not the author.

I was going to try to figure this out just for my own challenge, but I am leaning on the hoax thing too.
I just needed to be reminded that this is what some people do :(
It is not the first time I have fallen for it, and may be not the last.
Sorry everyone but I am not a chemist but I also know other countries will sell us the crap they can get away with, so I believed it was possible.

May be frankenstein the movie had an impact on me or I am just a concerned citizen.

Thanks for your help everyone.

[Edited on 23-2-2016 by 2 drops]

Athame - 22-2-2016 at 18:24

Quote: Originally posted by 2 drops  
Sorry for it was me that wrote "super acid" not the author.

I was going to try to figure this out just for my own challenge, but I am leaning on the hoax thing too.
I just needed to be reminded that this is what some people do :(
It is not the first time I have fallen for it, and may be not the last.
Sorry everyone but I am not a chemist but I also know other countries will sell us the crap they can get away with, so I believed it was possible.

May be frankenstein the movie had an impact on me or I am just a concerned citizen.

Thanks for your help everyone.



I actually think that it may be a secondary bacterial infection.

Here's a study from 2014 on drug-resistant bacteria, I think that the person's damaged skin may have played a role in allowing infection to take over(Working around a filthy drain too). Then again,it could be a publicity stunt, you never know when it comes to the Internet. Anyway, here's the paper, it wouldn't let me attach it:

DON'T LINK TO GARBAGE SITE ADF.LY

[Edited on 2-24-2016 by Polverone]

Etaoin Shrdlu - 23-2-2016 at 16:48

Quote: Originally posted by JJay  
The story lacks certain important details that would be included if true yet stresses certain others that are relatively mundane. Someone who is making a heartfelt plea about her husband doesn't describe him in bland terms like "26 year-old man" - she'd be saying "healthy, hard-working father" or something like that. Someone in that situation who is reaching out to the Internet wouldn't mind sharing his/her name and would be including pictures of family / etc. Also, the story contains false motivational messages that wouldn't be shared by someone in that situation.

Also, just look at the pictures--it's a regular heat burn. I'm not going to post other images here, but search google images if you want to see more of the same.

As far as I'm concerned, this is definitely a hoax and should be revealed as such. What is this person trying to do - get drain cleaner off of the shelves? Get lost, creep.


"They had theories at that hospital and medications to treat those theories. Lots of medication. Enormous amounts of medication. They eventually had him up to taking 27 different oral medications in a day along with intravenous drugs."

And yet not a single detail on a single one of these many theories and many medications. This isn't even a good hoax. This isn't even a good short story.

blogfast25 - 23-2-2016 at 18:42

Quote: Originally posted by Etaoin Shrdlu  

And yet not a single detail on a single one of these many theories and many medications. This isn't even a good hoax. This isn't even a good short story.


Nope, it's garbage and IMHO time relegate the whole thing to detritus, or at a minimum to close this non-thread.

[Edited on 24-2-2016 by blogfast25]