Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Getting aq. solutions of inert metals without killing myself

moonfisher - 20-2-2016 at 13:08

I want to try some neat silver chemistry, and I am going to get 2 nice 1g mini-rods of Ir metal.

Since I don't have anything stronger than hardware store muriatic acid, and I really, really do not want to deal with NO2, can I use electrolysis to get the ions a-flowing? What specs should I use?

(I have played with electrolysis before, using those rectangular 9v lithium batteries, but those were extremely crude and really only to play with when I had the flu.)

zed - 20-2-2016 at 16:29

Neat Silver chemistry? Well, Muriatic Acid isn't your friend.

Silver Chloride is pretty insoluble.

WGTR - 20-2-2016 at 16:41

Quote: Originally posted by moonfisher  
I want to try some neat silver chemistry, and I am going to get 2 nice 1g mini-rods of Ir metal.

Where are you getting the Ir metal?
Quote: Originally posted by moonfisher  
Since I don't have anything stronger than hardware store muriatic acid, and I really, really do not want to deal with NO2, can I use electrolysis to get the ions a-flowing? What specs should I use?

(I have played with electrolysis before, using those rectangular 9v lithium batteries, but those were extremely crude and really only to play with when I had the flu.)


See here: http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=27492&...

Maybe electrolysis with a silver anode in acetic acid, sulfamic acid, or ammonia? Keep the cathode area small relative to the anode. This minimizes cathode efficiency, and makes it easier to get concentrated solutions of your metal salts. Anyway, once the solution gets concentrated enough, silver will start plating out at the cathode.

ave369 - 21-2-2016 at 00:46

NOx are not lethally scary, if you have good ventilation, or, even better, can do it outside. But nitric acid will not help you make iridium compounds. You need truly scary stuff like molten cyanides to make it react.

For silver chemistry, however, good old nitric works like a charm. You can try the HCl-H2O2 mixture if you absolutly do not want nitric acid, but for this, I'm not so sure.

[Edited on 21-2-2016 by ave369]

moonfisher - 22-2-2016 at 15:07
Quote:


Maybe electrolysis with a silver anode in acetic acid, sulfamic acid, or ammonia? Keep the cathode area small relative to the anode. This minimizes cathode efficiency, and makes it easier to get concentrated solutions of your metal salts. Anyway, once the solution gets concentrated enough, silver will start plating out at the cathode.


I will try this! The iridium is coming from an element dealer on eBay. Didn't place any orders yet.


Quote:

NOx are not lethally scary, if you have good ventilation, or, even better, can do it outside. But nitric acid will not help you make iridium compounds. You need truly scary stuff like molten cyanides to make it react.

For silver chemistry, however, good old nitric works like a charm. You can try the HCl-H2O2 mixture if you absolutly do not want nitric acid, but for this, I'm not so sure

The problem with NOx is not only the toxicity, but my neighbors WILL freak out if they see red smoke spewing from a glass bottle. They already called the cops several times- apparently no-one can have a garden without growing marijuana! Nosiness and paranoia don't go well...

I feared that with iridium. Maybe heat the powder with a torch and some powdered salt?

j_sum1 - 22-2-2016 at 15:28

Ahh the neighbours and the problem of dramatic visible gases!

If that is the case, scrub the NOx through a solution of sodium hydroxide.
(Or recover it by passing through chilled hydrogen peroxide to make some more nitric acid.)

ave369 - 23-2-2016 at 01:05

Quote: Originally posted by moonfisher  

The problem with NOx is not only the toxicity, but my neighbors WILL freak out if they see red smoke spewing from a glass bottle. They already called the cops several times- apparently no-one can have a garden without growing marijuana! Nosiness and paranoia don't go well...


My solution to the problem of nosy neighbors is having a small enclosed courtyard between the gates and the door of my house, completely surrounded by the garage and tool sheds. There is no line of sight from the neighbors' land to this courtyard.

JJay - 23-2-2016 at 01:51

My neighbors have called the cops on lots of other people for trivial reasons but for some reason leave me alone even when I set off thermite in public view or do distillations with the garage door open. I think it's because I'm quiet.

That stated, you can dissolve silver with hydrogen peroxide and acetic acid.

ave369 - 23-2-2016 at 02:24

_Powdered_ iridium can react with sodium peroxide by slagging them together and then reacting the resulting slag with acids. You can also try chlorine at red hot temperature. But as far as I can tell, you have compact iridium metal, and with it the mentioned techniques do not work.

moonfisher - 24-2-2016 at 15:07
Quote:

If that is the case, scrub the NOx through a solution of sodium hydroxide.
(Or recover it by passing through chilled hydrogen peroxide to make some more nitric acid.)


Might try this- recycling the nitric acid sounds like a good idea. Would 15% H202 do? I have a little 35%, but its a bit old.


Quote:

My solution to the problem of nosy neighbors is having a small enclosed courtyard between the gates and the door of my house, completely surrounded by the garage and tool sheds. There is no line of sight from the neighbors' land to this courtyard.


I have such a space! But that means waiting not for a fair March day but one in June- deciduous trees, vines and such. Hopefully the fumes won't be concentrated enough to burn the foliage.


Quote:

My neighbors have called the cops on lots of other people for trivial reasons but for some reason leave me alone even when I set off thermite in public view or do distillations with the garage door open. I think it's because I'm quiet.

That stated, you can dissolve silver with hydrogen peroxide and acetic acid

Well, I AM quiet (and humble), but I have the flaw of being a filthy Slavic Papist lol!
The acetic method sounds good. Also, silver acetate seems useful in it's own right and then I could this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodward_cis-hydroxylation


Quote:

_Powdered_ iridium can react with sodium peroxide by slagging them together and then reacting the resulting slag with acids. You can also try chlorine at red hot temperature. But as far as I can tell, you have compact iridium metal, and with it the mentioned techniques do not work.

Well, I didnt order just yet, there are some "cheap" Ir powders available but it's as I feared. Aldrich has sodium peroxide, of course and it isnt that expensive. Maybe one day...

Woelen used "iridium chloride". Now, where did he get that? (Still ordering iridium eventually because iridium. )

j_sum1 - 24-2-2016 at 15:16

On scrubbing NOx
I would use up the 15% peroxide first before diving into the concentrated stuff. It won't absorb everything. But then a secondary scrub with NaOH should eliminate the rest of the gas. At least that way you get something useful from your waste.

On Iridium... I bought a gram a while back: powder from China. I have heard more than one report that the powder sold is often Tungsten. I haven't had mine tested. Proceed with caution. Or buy from a reputable seller -- say, Onyxmet.

moonfisher - 26-2-2016 at 13:18

J_sum,

Thanks for the link! I knew about the company, but I couldn't for the life of me remember the name! The shipping to the US looks good too, and it has the iridium salt, so maybe no need for exotic procedures.