Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Vandium pentoxide substitute

symboom - 29-11-2016 at 05:44

Vandium pentoxide
Used in oxidizing sulfur dioxide to sulfur trioxide
Oxidizing sugar to oxalic acid


Very useful catalysis with out using preciius nitric acid as one to see but could chromium oxide be substituted in some of reactions as these or possibly manganese dioxide or cerium oxide

Meltonium - 29-11-2016 at 07:16

No; if those could be used as a substitute catalyst, they would probably be used in industry more often. I'm just postulating, though, I don't know for certain.

learningChem - 30-5-2018 at 14:15

>could chromium oxide be substituted



Maybe. See patent US1787416



[Edited on 30-5-2018 by learningChem]

DavidJR - 30-5-2018 at 15:55

Cerium is even harder to get...

XeonTheMGPony - 30-5-2018 at 16:55

just dissolve a few old sockets as they are usually drop forged vanadium.

Corrosive Joeseph - 30-5-2018 at 17:03

Pottery suppliers.........

https://www.axner.com/vanadium-pentoxide.aspx
https://www.bathpotters.co.uk/vanadium-pentoxide/p1786


/CJ

NEMO-Chemistry - 31-5-2018 at 07:21

Quote: Originally posted by Corrosive Joeseph  
Pottery suppliers.........

https://www.axner.com/vanadium-pentoxide.aspx
https://www.bathpotters.co.uk/vanadium-pentoxide/p1786


/CJ


I cant understand the difference in price between there and here. It isnt a small amount we are talking many many times the price.

I tried to get hold of sum at christmas from pottery places, all had sold out of small amounts, but even then 200g was well over £80.

I thought i had got some cheap but i get two chemicals always mixed up name wise, no idea why but hey ho, i ended up with 500g of the wrong one :D.

I need to go check now incase i have mixed them up again!!

Looking at the prices on the pottery site there, its way cheaper than we get.

The other bad one at the moment is chlorinated solvents, i found chloroform for sale at a good price (for uk), but the rub was the postage was an extra £45.

There seems to be a big push towards 'green' solvents, even the universities are switching over.

Sorry i am waffling again

walruslover69 - 31-5-2018 at 09:43

Catalysts are really finicky things and the reasons why some compounds act as catalysts and other closely related compound don't or have very big differences in efficiency usually lies in some part of the mechanism. Its usually pretty hard to reliably choose a substitute catalyst without diving into the weeds or relying on literature sources for experimental or computation data.

weilawei - 31-5-2018 at 10:18

My understanding is that vanadium pentoxide is often plated on a support from a solution of ammonium metavanadate. The price is essentially the same. $41 for 100g, $160 for 500g from HiMedia.

woelen - 31-5-2018 at 12:07

The element vanadium is quite rare and it is not easily purified. The metal also is quite expensive and this of course also makes compounds of the metal quite expensive. I myself have V2O5 and also some VOSO4. Both are quite expensive, I paid appr. EUR 25 for 100 grams of V2O5, but that is quite a few years ago and I paid more than EUR 40 for 100 grams of VOSO4.xH2O.

Hasz - 31-5-2018 at 22:05

I purchased ~200g for about $20 from a pottery company near me. eBay has a decent selection, at least in the US.

The dust is also surprisingly toxic -- much more than just eating the stuff.

wg48 - 1-6-2018 at 06:49

Apparently there are vanadium pentoxide lithium batteries. https://www.rapidonline.com/Panasonic-VL2330-1HFE-50mAh-Rech...

I cannot find any construction info on them. Perhaps a source vanadium if there are more than button cells in circulation.

Anyone got any info on them or links?

battoussai114 - 1-6-2018 at 11:11

Maybe, but certainly at the expense of selectivity and conversion.

For instance I spent some time looking into V2O5 alternatives when I was looking into ways of converting naphthalene into more interesting molecules and I found that a few different transition metal oxides would work for the oxidation to phtalic anhydride, but all were less effective in almost all aspects (main runner-up being MoO3 IIRC).
Quote: Originally posted by XeonTheMGPony  
just dissolve a few old sockets as they are usually drop forged vanadium.


Vanadium as in pure Va or Cr-Va Steel?


[Edited on 1-6-2018 by battoussai114]

AJKOER - 4-6-2018 at 18:52

A substitute catalyst is NO2, reaction:

NO2 + SO2 = NO + SO3

NO + 1/2 O2 --> NO2

For a net reaction of:

SO2 + 1/2 O2 --NO/NO2--> SO3

See comments and references at http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=83459 .

[Edited on 5-6-2018 by AJKOER]

XeonTheMGPony - 4-6-2018 at 19:10

Quote: Originally posted by battoussai114  
Maybe, but certainly at the expense of selectivity and conversion.

For instance I spent some time looking into V2O5 alternatives when I was looking into ways of converting naphthalene into more interesting molecules and I found that a few different transition metal oxides would work for the oxidation to phtalic anhydride, but all were less effective in almost all aspects (main runner-up being MoO3 IIRC).

Quote: Originally posted by XeonTheMGPony  
just dissolve a few old sockets as they are usually drop forged vanadium.


Vanadium as in pure Va or Cr-Va Steel?


[Edited on 1-6-2018 by battoussai114]


I am not so sure now, based off the wording you'd think chrome plated vanadium, Guess I'll find out when I get around to dissolving them. they simply say "Drop forged Vanadium"