Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Where is Blogfast25 ?

It's difficult to deal with the strain of such painful separation anxiety caused by the absence of our bosom buddy, but we must all try to bear up somehow.

It's okay, Rosco. I'm sure you'll be close to your pal bloggie's bosoms again before too long.

aga - 6-2-2017 at 14:33

I have a feeling that bloggers will never be far away from this forum.

When he is back and in full effect, Happiness, at least for me.
Still waiting on the square root of -1 thing.

I'm back in the UK for a few days at the end of this month, so might take a trip up North and knock on his door to see what's what.

At the very least i could hand over his Trophy - never got a response despite several tries after he was voted a Winner.

aga - 6-2-2017 at 14:39

Edit:

i would have sent it to the known shop address, but was not sure if Chem-stigmatism forced him away from there.

Darkstar - 7-2-2017 at 14:01

I hope he's alright. According to his profile, he hasn't even logged in now for nearly three months. I'm sure he's just been a bit too preoccupied with the whole criminal investigation thing to be bothering with stuff like SM; however, given his preexisting medical problems in addition to all of the new legal issues this investigation has inevitably caused him, I just can't help but worry if he's okay.

I'm back in the UK for a few days at the end of this month, so might take a trip up North and knock on his door to see what's what.

Please let me know if you do find out anything new about blog's current situation. If it's too sensitive to post here publicly (as it may still be an ongoing investigation), just hit me up via U2U. I haven't been all that active here lately, but I do still read the forum periodically, and have been following this now for quite some time.

aga - 7-2-2017 at 14:31

To be honest, i respect him too much to just go knock on his door without invitation.

If he is not communicating, it must be for a reason, and far be it from me to override that reason just because i can.

Clearly he does not chose (or cannot) participate here at this time.

My main worry is if it is because of the 'cannot' part

Losing blogfast25 would be a Total Disaster, at least from my perspective.

On a brighter note, very happy to see a Dark Star again in the sky tonight

j_sum1 - 7-2-2017 at 15:00

aga, if you are in the area, you can look him up without being invasive. I know that this community means a lot to him and I am certain that he would appreciate some greetings from the many here who miss him.
Clearly something has happened. We can really only speculate what it might be. The two areas of his personal life that he has hinted at in the past are sufficient for us to be concerned. Whatever the situation it would be great to pass on our good wishes to him if we can.

Darkstar - 7-2-2017 at 20:21

UPDATE: For anyone still worried about blogfast, I think I may have some good news. Not only does blogfast seem to be very much alive and well, but he also doesn't seem to be incarcerated either. It recently occurred to me that blogfast had mentioned in the past that he was an active member on a popular physics forum, and had even posted a link here on SM to a thread on that site where he had responded to a question someone had posted. Since I still remember which SM thread he posted it in and even have the old U2U message he originally sent me about it, I was able to track down the link pretty easily. Considering the fact that one of the posters in that thread not only has the exact same username as blogfast's real first name, but also just so happens to be a professional chemist from the UK that has recently developed an interest in quantum mechanics (according to his profile), I think it's safe to say that this user is most definitely blogfast.

The good news is that, according to his recent activity log, he's made roughly 17 edits and posts within the last 24 hours, with the most recent being a couple of hours ago. So it would seem that blogfast is indeed alright, and his lack of communication with SM is most likely voluntary. I'm guessing that he's simply chosen to lay low for legal reasons, as he did say that it was an ongoing investigation and that SM was being monitored as well. It would explain why he's cut all ties to SM and its members (emails, phone numbers, messaging services etc), as this forum is largely energetics-oriented. And given the current state of affairs in the UK and the nature of the investigation, I can't say that I blame him.

So out of respect for blogfast, I've opted not to publicly reveal the name of the physics forum or give out any links to his profile there; however, if you'd like to attempt to contact him through the physics forum's private messaging system, U2U me and I'll be happy to give you the link to his profile.

EDIT: As it turns out, you can't send private messages to other users on that site, unfortunately. (it's not really a "forum" in the true sense) You can, however, invite other users to a chat room apparently, but I won't pretend to know how any of that stuff works.

[Edited on 2-8-2017 by Darkstar]

JJay - 7-2-2017 at 21:11

I'm sure they do look at this forum from time to time, and there are probably some members who are forensic chemists. That stated, I doubt law enforcement really takes a lot of interest in what goes on here unless there are large quantities of chemicals that they'd like to control publicly changing hands or if parents complain.

My understanding is that pyro suppliers tend to receive a lot of unwarranted and unnecessary attention from law enforcement. Much of this is likely due to overzealous efforts to combat terrorism, but accidents and law enforcement events with chemicals do happen, and these can trigger investigations. If you supply pyro chemicals, you really need to be on top of your game as far as keeping every legal T crossed and I dotted.

Melgar - 8-2-2017 at 00:04

So he's a huge nerd who developed an interest in a different nerdy subject and went off to a different forum to play with the nerds there?

Been there, done that.

I lost interest in chemistry for about five years myself. All my posts here are clustered around 2009 to 2011 or 2016 to 2017, having recently made friends with two aspiring chemists. Hey, I'm happy for him that he's broadening his horizons.

Quote:

I'm sure they do look at this forum from time to time, and there are probably some members who are forensic chemists. That stated, I doubt law enforcement really takes a lot of interest in what goes on here unless there are large quantities of chemicals that they'd like to control publicly changing hands or if parents complain.

I think law enforcement monitors this site for the same reason drug chemists do: they want to see if there are any new synthetic routes to start looking for in drug lab busts. But I can almost guarantee they aren't interested in anyone's real identity here unless they post something incredibly stupid and self-incriminating.

[Edited on 2/8/17 by Melgar]

Rosco Bodine - 11-2-2017 at 18:45

If comrade blogfast25 has been relocated to Siberia then it is morning in the Ukraine

Rosco Bodine - 8-7-2017 at 07:47

8 months in the slammer ...

Ouch! What a Bummer! But it could have been much worse for a non-compliant careless vendor whose wares were used in two murders.

Here is an update I found regarding our fellow board member and online alias who shows an ideological profile / identity conflicted enigma. To anyone's idea that I would celebrate the family man's misfortune I would say I certainly do not wish the actual man or his family any misfortune.

The problem with having a "too cute by half" phony alter ego online "troll identity", is that phony "alias" identity in the virtual world can become too much of a distraction in the real world, and carelessness there can assuredly have its actual costs for the actual inhabitant of the physical world. Everyone should keep their eye on the ball and NOT EVER be in denial about what is the actual, factual and historical basis for all the regulations and restrictions that have been imposed as a SERIOUS security concern.

https://www.yorkshirecoastradio.com/news/local-news/2319798/...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4367780/Breaking-Bad...

JJay - 8-7-2017 at 08:12

The problem here was that he was selling chemicals in violation of the law.

There are far more dangerous things than a shed full of chemicals....

JJay - 8-7-2017 at 08:22

He sold a terrorist a small amount of aluminum powder. That wasn't even illegal; it's what got him on the radar of law enforcement.

What is the actual problem here, in your view?

Rosco Bodine - 8-7-2017 at 08:58

A lack of sober and honest situational awareness can come back to bite a person on the ass. Playing in traffic is not a good place for children or adults acting like children to be.

NedsHead - 8-7-2017 at 09:05

Well one thing's for sure, the dailymail.uk get a 10/10 for fearmongering.

arkoma - 8-7-2017 at 11:44

Quote: Originally posted by JJay

What is the actual problem here, in your view?

MY view is The Nanny State. I've been absent to due to the injuries I sustained last summer, and am just catching up on this. Scary as hell.

karlos³ - 8-7-2017 at 13:05

Shit these are witch hunt tactics! Sadly he had sold without license, this will probably be ending with disastrous debt... hopefully no prison sentence, well, the money will still be an enormous sum he has to spend now

phlogiston - 8-7-2017 at 13:53

Let's hope the judge can and will take into account that, while he technically broke a law, he has not ever put anyone at danger and has no malicious intent.

j_sum1 - 8-7-2017 at 16:00

Quote: Originally posted by phlogiston

Let's hope the judge can and will take into account that, while he technically broke a law, he has not ever put anyone at danger and has no malicious intent.

Too late. Sentencing has happened.
This is an overreaction from beginning to end. And it hasn't ended yet. After his 8 month jail term he has a "criminal behaviour order" to not "directly or indirectly store or purchase raw or synthesised chemicals" and also to dispose of any of the remaining chemicals he has. That is such a vague all-encompassing condition that will be impossible to not violate -- you can't make pancakes under those directives. It just leaves the door open for a follow-up witch hunt.
So, amongst all of the sad aspects of this case, they are removing from him any possibility of engaging in a hobby he enjoys. I doubt we will ever see him again at SM.

This is a gross miscarriage of justice.

[edit] Quotation marks added.

Sorry, forgot to include some links.

This one has some video of bloggers in his lab.
http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news...

Here is seems officialdom is unclear whether they are concerned about toxicity or energetics or unlicensed selling.
http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/15385384.Jail_for_chemical_s...

I am very conscious of the fact that I am reading news reports and not court documentation -- and there is nothing to convince me of the veracity of the news sources. I'd love to know what actually happened and there is no way anyone could find out from the news feed. They can't even state unambiguously what the actual offense was.

[Edited on 9-7-2017 by j_sum1]

Rosco Bodine - 8-7-2017 at 16:11

He was such a stickler for "technical rules" he would insist be applied to others right here on this board, that the irony is incredible he would be so particular about rules in a virtual community, while running afoul of rules in the real world where it is a matter of such personal consequence.

Texium - 8-7-2017 at 19:48

After his 8 month jail term he has a "criminal behaviour order" to not "directly or indirectly store or purchase raw or synthesised chemicals" and also to dispose of any of the remaining chemicals he has. That is such a vague all-encompassing condition that will be impossible to not violate -- you can't make pancakes under those directives. It just leaves the door open for a follow-up witch hunt.
So, amongst all of the sad aspects of this case, they are removing from him any possibility of engaging in a hobby he enjoys. I doubt we will ever see him again at SM.

That's preposterous! He'd have to leave the country if he wants to have any hope of continuing with chemistry...

JJay - 9-7-2017 at 07:08

I see very little glassware in the videos of blogfast's lab. A few beakers, some small Erlenmeyers... plastic graduated cylinders... no jointware....

j_sum1 - 9-7-2017 at 07:16

Well he did nearly no chemistry in his shed in the 12 months before the incident. He had other issues to deal with as well.
There is a good chance his glassware was washed and packed up at the time.

JJay - 9-7-2017 at 07:20

That's true, but why wouldn't he wash and pack up his plasticware as well?

Rosco Bodine - 9-7-2017 at 18:13

I'd love to know more specifics on this incident. Right now we don't even know what substances were involved.

It was not my intent to cause controversy. The irony about this scenario is just incredible, like some truth stranger than fiction story. The details are pretty sketchy.

More specifics would be interesting to know, but I have nothing further, except for what IIRC came from an older article was a mention the purchaser(/s?) were involved in two murders, which doesn't necessarily implicate others, but does make things more serious.

The angle about the purchaser being a Ukrainian or "islamophobe" I know nothing about, but put together with the quote from the mother, there definitely seems to be some vague nexus with the jihad / counter-jihad unpleasantness afoot in europe and other places around the world.

[Edited on 7/10/2017 by Rosco Bodine]

NedsHead - 9-7-2017 at 18:28

I'd like to see a link to news article regarding the "Islamophobe terrorists" he dealt with

j_sum1 - 9-7-2017 at 18:55

The details are pretty sketchy.

This is one of the things that disturbs me the most. At least from the media's point of view, the analysis is superficial to the point of hobby chemist = terrorist activity = evil = deserved jail time. No attention has been given to providing actual details.

From what I infer of blogfast's statements he knowingly used and sold substances that I presume are relatively recent on the restricted list -- and he confessed to doing so. I am guessing that, as a chemist. he has a more complete understanding of the actual dangers and range of uses of the materials in question and felt the laws were unnecessarily rigid and arbitrary (a view many of us share). Therefore he overlooked licensing requirements. (Although in his media statement he said he "forgot"). I seriously doubt that he had or has any malicious intent. The media omits details. It makes a difference whether he was selling Al powder or gram quantities of perchloric or nitric acid or whether the offence was kitsets for kg quantities of TATP. There was nothing visible in his lab that could have justified a bomb squad and evacuation of 40 houses.

Quote: Originally posted by JJay

That's true, but why wouldn't he wash and pack up his plasticware as well?

It is possible that his jointed glassware had been confiscated prior to the video being taken. It is also possible that he managed to offload some of his gear to a safer location before the interview.

JJay - 9-7-2017 at 19:10

I read an article somewhere that said a pound of aluminum powder... not sure where....

I don't think he had malicious intent, but how could he possibly have not been aware that he had to meet licensing requirements?? I mean... if you had something illegal in your lab (hypothetically, of course), wouldn't you know about it? It just doesn't make any sense.

Perhaps he forgot to mail his license application or put it off... but could he have actually gotten a license in that location? How much would it have cost?

clearly_not_atara - 9-7-2017 at 19:15

Quote:

if you had something illegal in your lab (hypothetically, of course), wouldn't you know about it?

The list of laws is not exactly short... it certainly surprised me that some things were illegal. Maybe he made the powder himself?

JJay - 9-7-2017 at 19:27

That doesn't necessarily make it magically legal... in the U.S., you can manufacture listed substances that are not controlled substances for use in your own unregistered laboratory for lawful purposes *if* you are a bona fide chemist *and* do so in the course of professional work. So it's actually lawful to make some phosphorus, for example, if you have a legitimate reason for doing so. But that's an exception given in statutory law and does not apply generally in most of the world.

j_sum1 - 9-7-2017 at 19:31

Can you see if you can dig up that Al powder reference?
Bloggers did a lot of work in times past involving thermites -- some ground-breaking stuff.
It would not surprise me at all if he had some Al powder on hand and chose to onsell it. And I can understand having familiarity with a substance like that and dismissing some of the regulations as draconian.

JJay - 9-7-2017 at 19:43

I was thinking it was a Free Press article, but I'm not seeing it... I do see an article that suggests that the judge didn't think it was appropriate that the chemicals were stored in a populated area....

Loptr - 9-7-2017 at 20:44

Was he charged with several things? There is talk of the oxidizers that were made illegal in the UK, and also that he plead guilty to the Poisons Act of 1972.

He was initially charged with supplying bomb-making equipment to terrorists but later cleared. Appearing in court on Wednesday, Meyers pleaded guilty to a breach of the Poisons Act 1972.

District Judge Fred Rutherford told the court: 'He's a trained chemist running a company in respect of these chemicals.
'When new legislation came in, the police spoke to him about these substances and advised he should not be in possession of them. He was advised to obtain a licence on two occasions.'
He will now be sent to Crown Court to be sentenced because the Magistrates' did not have sufficient power to pass a sentence long enough for the offences.
After the hearing, Detective Chief Superintendent Hutchinson said although the sale may have been legal at the time, Meyers should have been 'more responsible' about who he was supplying the lethal chemicals to.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4367780/Breaking-Bad...
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Rosco Bodine - 10-7-2017 at 04:20

Here is a results list for articles

http://www.bridlingtonfreepress.co.uk/search?query=Gert+Meye...

Rosco Bodine - 10-7-2017 at 04:31

Quote: Originally posted by NedsHead

I'd like to see a link to news article regarding the "Islamophobe terrorists" he dealt with

The entire news reported story seems pretty incomplete and cryptic and fishy, like there is awaiting to be told some "rest of the story" that they aren't saying, or that much of the story already published is simply manufactured fiction.

NedsHead - 10-7-2017 at 05:20

It reads like typical dramatised media fiction, loyal readers will be calling to have this monster thrown on the next fleet to Australia

Loptr - 10-7-2017 at 05:30

Quote: Originally posted by NedsHead

It reads like typical dramatised media fiction, loyal readers will be calling to have this monster thrown on the next fleet to Australia

If you read the comments of those articles, majority of the people seem to be calling him dangerous, and that he had ulterior motives, etc., etc. The scene resembles a lynch mob!

Loptr - 10-7-2017 at 06:00

I find it ironic that blogfast25 is given credit in Theodore Gray's book, entitled "Mad Science 2: Experiments You Can Do At Home, But STILL Probably Shouldn't".

The judge, "He even is credited to a book where the title says you shouldn't do it at home!".

MrHomeScientist - 10-7-2017 at 07:43

Wow that is all just awful. I feel terrible for Gert. He's been a great influence on me and has helped me with experiments many times. He's contributed so much to this forum, and if he actually has to destroy all of his chemicals after being released from jail that is the end of his hobby. We'll lose a great resource to the hobby community. I wish there was something I could do to help. I'm glad Rosco's ramblings haven't gotten the thread closed at least. He did link the articles originally so I certainly appreciate that.

[Edited on 7-10-2017 by MrHomeScientist]

Praxichys - 10-7-2017 at 09:36

It would be interesting if someone could get the court documents so we could find out what the details are. In the USA they are public record.

Dailymail is notorious for tabloid journalism. I might have tried to get a good word out to the media too but definitely not from them. That article is borderline defamation. What saddens me most is the comments along the lines of "I'm sorry he is just as bad as them!" when the "terrorist" he sold "highly dangerous chemicals" to was some random white supremacist who stabbed a guy to death.

However, his sentence is probably for the flagrant disregard of several requests by police to obtain proper licensing for his stock. It's a victory for terrorism that the licenses are even required, but you still can't just ignore the laws you don't like. He was always very bullheaded in his political views, and I think this time he picked a fight with wrong people. It will be interesting to see if he comes back. He was an excellent chemist and I hope this (or the vague "health issue" they mention) doesn't deter his return.

What baffles me is that the police had been there twice before, and suddenly on confiscation day they evacuate 40 people for two days and cordon off the block, spending $46,000 US to take a couple of bottles out of a shed. Bureaucracy at its finest.

Anyway, if the prison system is anything like the US, he'll probably just spend those 4 months in a minimum security FPC full of other nonviolent "white collar" offenders. Three square meals a day, a work release program followed by some quality reading time and exercise, regular phone calls and visitation... inconvenient, sure, but it's not like anyone's going to get shanked.

clearly_not_atara - 10-7-2017 at 11:31

Quote: Originally posted by JJay

That doesn't necessarily make it magically legal... in the U.S., you can manufacture listed substances that are not controlled substances for use in your own unregistered laboratory for lawful purposes *if* you are a bona fide chemist *and* do so in the course of professional work. So it's actually lawful to make some phosphorus, for example, if you have a legitimate reason for doing so. But that's an exception given in statutory law and does not apply generally in most of the world.

What I meant was: if you powder aluminium yourself, you might never find out it's illegal. Although if you had tried to buy it I guess that's kind of unlikely. I think if you showed a bag of aluminium powder to the average Brit he'd have no idea it was contraband.

JJay - 10-7-2017 at 11:59

Aluminum powder sales (and for that matter, the sales of most pyrotechnic materials) are legal in the U.S., but the ATF has been known to seek court orders to stop people from selling pyrotechnics materials in a manner that they consider irresponsible despite the absence of any clear law against it. That is why several of the popular U.S.-based pyro suppliers have quantity restrictions.

It's legal for me to have large quantities of aluminum powder, although I imagine my landlord wouldn't like it, and it could raise insurance rates (and there are fire codes that have to be met, etc.). But it's not something I keep sitting around in large quantities... I think I have four grams of it in a bag around here somewhere (which is lawful and shouldn't upset anyone). But any American can buy 25 kg of smokeless powder over the counter at most department stores, so fuss over aluminum powder is really quite silly.

Praxichys - 10-7-2017 at 13:28

Not to mention that it might not even be powder fine enough to make flash compositions. I usually stick to the 30μm Al powder for various applications because it's good enough for what I need it for and it's too coarse for the ATF to care.

JJay - 10-7-2017 at 15:18

I just shredded aluminum foil in a coffee grinder... I'm guessing it is largely 50-100 μm. That's bad for the coffee grinder, but it would be trivial to use a blender and screen the powder afterward (or use a rock tumbler or ball mill).

Magpie - 11-7-2017 at 08:04

I think this is a crying shame. I know he broke the law but there was no malicious intent: he was just a bloke trying to make a living selling innocuous chemicals. I admire his pluck. He's a great physical chemist and educator. I wish him the best.

Rosco Bodine - 11-7-2017 at 10:04

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/back-garden-chemist-jaile...

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/supplying-explosi...

[Edited on 7/11/2017 by Rosco Bodine]

Loptr - 11-7-2017 at 10:19

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/back-garden-chemist-jaile...

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/supplying-explosi...

[Edited on 7/11/2017 by Rosco Bodine]

I hope controlled explosions weren't carried out as stated in that first link! Maybe so that they could if need be... geez! People are out of their minds!

[Edited on 11-7-2017 by Loptr]

Loptr - 11-7-2017 at 10:23

Chief Inspector Iain Dixon from the East Riding Community Policing said:

Gert Meyers has failed to see the severity of what he has done wrong throughout his interactions with authorities and ignored warnings that he was possessing illegal substances. He was keeping these very volatile and explosive substances in his shed which could have seriously harmed or killed himself or neighbours. When we discovered the substances it became clear that we’d need to evacuate the area around his home to ensure the safety of the public. I hope now the circumstances are emerging the public support our action understand and why it was so vital.

I am sure the public affected by his selfish actions will be pleased to see that he has been sentenced to time in prison. It should serve as a warning to other people in possession of dangerous and unregulated substances that they will be identified and brought to justice.

So dangerous and unregulated substances are justification alone to be brought to justice? Justice for what?

[Edited on 11-7-2017 by Loptr]

Rosco Bodine - 11-7-2017 at 10:33

Myself and franklyn and others on this board correctly identified a mental problem was obvious involving some of the postings made here, and now this has been confirmed.

https://celebrityrave.com/article/chemist-55-who-cooked-up-d...

JJay - 11-7-2017 at 10:40

Efforts to connect blogfast25's legal troubles with Breaking Bad are off base. There were no drugs nor any drug precursors found in his shed.

Rosco Bodine - 11-7-2017 at 12:05

I agree that the reporting was atrociously prejudicial and is typical tabloid crap masquerading as journalism.

Fake News that is completely invented is yet another distortion that is typical Yellow Journalism.

Scroll halfway down the page of this Royal Society article and you'll see a more sober author's words.

https://www.chemistryworld.com/feature/hobby-chemists/101748...

The constable and judge are unequivocally lacking in knowledge fit for making accurate risk analysis and risk management decisions. They should be treated for hysteria and ignorance.

ELRIC - 11-7-2017 at 13:45

I wonder if Blogfast has any commissary money?

The article linked by Rosco said he was having problems acquiring employement

due to a DUI. Can anyone contact Blogfast?

Rosco Bodine - 11-7-2017 at 15:18

Here is more info. Anybody could possibly ring up the missus to offer help,
maybe set up a "Go fund me"

use the scroll wheel on this linked page
https://www.pressreader.com/uk/daily-mail/20170401/282162176...

gdflp - 11-7-2017 at 15:47

I think that's an excellent idea Rosco, at the very least it's worth putting out feelers.

On a slightly different note, it's possible that he won't necessarily spend all 8 months in prison, he appears to be eligible for parole on October 30<sup>th</sup> : http://www.thelawpages.com/court-cases/Gert-Meyers-20392-1.l...

Rosco Bodine - 11-7-2017 at 16:09

An irony to me is that there are things in common in some general ways (not involving politics) with myself. I have muttered "there but for the grace of God go I"
and I can certainly appreciate and have a shared disdain of "regulators" who more precisely are nanny state "revenuers" ("license" tax collectors)...more commonly known as extortionists, thieves, and bloodsucker bureaucrat parasites

Virtually any conceivable "controlled" or even "prohibited" thing that person would want to own is possible to be made "legal" if the correct palm is greased with the required sum to obtain the "proper license" and everybody understands how that "payola" or "pay to play" or paying protection works. In the U.S. for example if you want a machine gun it is no problem if you pay the 500 dollar "tax". Suddenly a prohibited weapon becomes "authorized". See how that works.

j_sum1 - 11-7-2017 at 16:29

By all accounts that I have read, a proper license from the Home Office seems in actuality to be a difficult thing to obtain with most applications rejected. I am willing to be wrong on that one. But if i am not, it would seem that the system is set up for failure.

The criminal behaviour order that I previously cited is another such example. There is no way that anyone could actually obey the letter of that law.

It does seem to be an orchestrated effort to demonise anyone with an active interest in chemistry under the guise of protecting the public from terrorist activity. And a lot more regard for perceived threats than actual hazards. It has been previously discussed how futile that approach will be. Current terrorist trends are to use vehicles and knives rather than perchlorates. Restricting one means will only open up others. It is not the chemicals that are the problem. (I was ruminating this morning on how much of a bang I could create with flour, a fan and a Bic lighter.)

OTOH, I do concede that there appear to be some storage and labelling issues in bloggers' lab. I am going to take warning from that as I set up my new workspace.

I like the idea of a gofundme for bloggers -- or any other way we can show our support. It would be prudent to make contact with him or his family first to find out what the actual needs are.

Rosco Bodine - 11-7-2017 at 16:54

Yes that kind of "special license" made of unobtanium would simply be a false pretense that is used as a ruse, a lie to cover what is a de facto prohibition, rather than a revenue generating scheme.

Oh you can't do that without a special license.

Okay. How much for a license?

More than anyone can afford.

Where to get a none such license being the problem.

Another dishonest scam used to persecute and oppress people.

Fulmen - 11-7-2017 at 20:44

It does seem to be an orchestrated effort to demonise anyone with an active interest in chemistry under the guise of protecting the public from terrorist activity.

It's all about what an average individual needs. Nobody needs to do chemistry in the garage, and most people doesn't even want to. So there really isn't any reason for allowing possession of potentially harmful chemicals.

If you think we chemists have it rough you should try being interested in firearmss... Two of my friends got busted for some illegal guns a few years ago, you would not believe the amount of shit that hit the fan that day.

j_sum1 - 11-7-2017 at 21:27

Point taken Fulmen. And I confess to having a far greater interest in chemistry than firearms. I am of the opinion that firearm ownership presents a far higher community risk than home chemistry. Additionally I see uses for chemistry that I don't generally find an equivalent for in the realm of firearms. Blogfast developed same innovative aluminothermite techniques that I think are nothing to be sneezed at.

But leaving aside my reservations about firearms, in neither case do I see a case for bureaucratic knee-jerk reactions at the cost of individual freedoms. Where there is an identified community risk there should obviously be some form of restriction or regulation. But I think it is far from an established fact that blogfast presented a risk to his community -- certainly not one that required a £36000 two day bomb squad operation involving evacuation of 40 neighbours. It should not have been difficult for blogfast to demonstrate a legitimate justification for what he was doing. Perhaps some of the blame lies with the administrative obstacles that make it difficult to obtain a license from the Home Office?

It is all about perception rather than actual risk. The law in this case appears to be addressing perceived harm and not actual harm. I wonder what would have happened if there had been a convincing expert witness in this case. I would be prepared to bet money that the judge has no clue on chemistry and cleans his house and eats his food "with no chemicals".

JJay - 11-7-2017 at 22:39

My impression is that they would not have granted him a license that would have allowed him to keep his chemicals at that particular location and that the evacuation occurred mainly so that the disposal of the seized chemicals could occur without endangering his neighbors (i.e. so the bomb squad could set off explosives in his yard). That does seem rather unnecessary, and they didn't bother taking his solvent cans and so forth, which arguably presented more of a hazard than the chemicals that they seized.

I'm not sure who would qualify as a convincing expert witness... a chemistry instructor perhaps? What would he/she testify about? That the chemicals did not present a serious hazard? How much does that matter when you're in violation of the law? I think that blogfast did have some of his neighbors speak on his behalf as character witnesses....

Realistically, how large of a blast radius do you think you could expect if a fire occurred in blogfast's lab? How far would shrapnel be thrown?

Rosco Bodine - 12-7-2017 at 05:58

I'll leave this board to all the "experts" and count whatever expressing of my thoughts done here as having been a complete waste of time.

DrP - 12-7-2017 at 06:12

I'll leave this board to all the "experts" and count whatever expressing of my thoughts done here as having been a complete waste of time.

Sent you a pm. :-)

Back to the topic of the thread... I have never met Blogfast25 and have no idea where he is.

Magpie - 12-7-2017 at 08:26

Quote: Originally posted by DrP

Back to the topic of the thread... I have never met Blogfast25 and have no idea where he is.

If you want to know him read some of his posts. He lives in the UK, SW England, IIRC.

phlogiston - 12-7-2017 at 14:05

Quote: Originally posted by Fulmen

This.
People need trucks, knifes and planes. They can't be banned.
Making it impossible to do chemical experiments at home only affects a tiny, tiny percentage of the population, in a very minor way (we would lose a hobby, which is extremely frustrating but nothing more serious than that).
Politicians can claim they are taking measures that make terrorists' life more difficult. Amateur chemists are collateral damage that nobody really cares about.

[Edited on 12-7-2017 by phlogiston]

Praxichys - 12-7-2017 at 19:48

Yep, and to be honest I don't think a gofundme is a good idea.

It will just show that the amateur chemistry community is willing to support the illegal possession of restricted substances by people with mental health problems and a history of criminal substance abuse.

If the public has been made to believe his actions aided terrorism, receiving financial support from us only makes it look like we must support terrorism as well. If anyone figures out this funding is even remotely related to SM, this board and its English members will be under investigation in an awful hurry.

I can see the headline now: "Terrorist-Supplying Breaking Bad guy Sponsored by Online Chemist Ring distributing Explosive How-Tos" and "Sleep Safer Tonight: English Members of Supply Ring Raided, More Dangerous Chemicals Confiscated, Three Jailed"

Further, England has an internet censorship law specifically about "regulations against incitement to terrorism". I'd hate to see SM blacklisted by English ISPs.

j_sum1 - 12-7-2017 at 20:11

You raise good points there Praxichys. I hadn't considered the risks from that angle.

DrP - 13-7-2017 at 01:35

Quote: Originally posted by Magpie

Quote: Originally posted by DrP

Back to the topic of the thread... I have never met Blogfast25 and have no idea where he is.

If you want to know him read some of his posts. He lives in the UK, SW England, IIRC.

In which case I would put money on him NOT having been shot in anyway at all.

Magpie - 13-7-2017 at 07:19

You raise good points there Praxichys. I hadn't considered the risks from that angle.

Yes, I wholeheartedly agree with Praxichys. The sanctity of SM must be protected at all costs. It is the most important tool of the hobby chemist.

AngelEyes - 13-7-2017 at 07:28

Quote: Originally posted by Fulmen

It does seem to be an orchestrated effort to demonise anyone with an active interest in chemistry under the guise of protecting the public from terrorist activity.

No one needs to race cars, no one needs to play football, no one needs to shoot guns...but some people want to. And they are mature enough to do it without hurting anyone else. By and large anyway.

I do appreciate that prohibited chems are a slightly different matter, but the principle is the same. Life can be routine and boring...so people race cars, play games, shoot guns...and practice home chemistry.
This is about personal freedom - why should I have my freedoms to amuse myself curtailed or removed because a few bad apples won't play the game properly...?

Also, given the recent propensity for using vehicles and the fact that hydrogen peroxide, nitric acid, (per)chlorates etc are now (in the UK anyway) are really difficult to obtain, we are going to see more and more vehicular terrorism.

On the other side of the coin, and if the reports are true, then by not getting a home office license he has brought some of this upon himself.

The cynical part of me thinks that this was all done (bomb squad, evacuate the street etc) to perpetuate the overblown threat of terrorism to the public at large and to reinforce to the public the incorrect notion that chemicals = bad.

Don't get me wrong, there IS a terrorist threat but if they were really serious about 'terrorising' the public there are far easier and more effective ways of doing it than driving into people randomly.

Angel.

Rosco Bodine - 13-7-2017 at 09:11

Quote: Originally posted by Praxichys

Yep, and to be honest I don't think a gofundme is a good idea.

It will just show that the amateur chemistry community is willing to support the illegal possession of restricted substances by people with mental health problems and a history of criminal substance abuse.

If the public has been made to believe his actions aided terrorism, receiving financial support from us only makes it look like we must support terrorism as well. If anyone figures out this funding is even remotely related to SM, this board and its English members will be under investigation in an awful hurry.

I can see the headline now: "Terrorist-Supplying Breaking Bad guy Sponsored by Online Chemist Ring distributing Explosive How-Tos" and "Sleep Safer Tonight: English Members of Supply Ring Raided, More Dangerous Chemicals Confiscated, Three Jailed"

Further, England has an internet censorship law specifically about "regulations against incitement to terrorism". I'd hate to see SM blacklisted by English ISPs.

Of course you are correct, and I withdraw my idea.

Such support definitely could be misinterpreted.

Unfortunately, public "perception" of a propagandized reality substitutes as an equivalent for factual reality as an illusion in the minds of many. If the true circumstances are not known, best guesses from incomplete news summary is all people know. And about the information that is not correct, they are unaware.

For this particular case it is evident a "public perception" has been crafted and published by the media and by the authorities, which conveys a general idea that is definitely negative towards amateur science as a private pursuit. This jeopardizes a personal liberty being abolished as an acceptable sacrifice of personal liberty to be made on the altar of "public safety".

No one needs a map to see what direction the increasing regulations have been going is towards a complete prohibition, where science is going to become a pursuit restricted to an elite who are "licensed" and authorized, and the vast majority of people are simply SOL.

NEMO-Chemistry - 26-12-2017 at 05:31

Actually its pretty straight forward, the main chemicals of issue were chlorates and perchlorates. The nitric acid was mentioned on the first TWO advisory visits from the police.

Actually he was lucky, this is a quick breakdown of events....

2 separate people/incidents result in the murder of 2 people. Member gets a visit for supply, during visit member is advised to get a license. Now a quick point on this one......

The member didnt NEED a license as such, actually as he was selling chemicals he could of registered his company as a LTD business (like USA inc ), however this would of meant the member would have had to comply with storage laws and things like flammable safes for liquids etc. Proper labels etc etc etc. But it would have made him exempt from the license.

Second visit he would of been warned to comply (very rare to get a second warning), member refused to comply and also refused to even try and comply with the rules regarding storage and labels etc.

Having started the process of setting up a business, and having had a visit from the police (my invitation), i think alot of this is arrogance. Sorry if that offends people, but the truth is if you get two warnings and ignore them then expect trouble. The murders are a bit of a red herring, they merely got him the visit. From the open magistrates transcript (you do a FOI request to see them, this was a open court session), it is clear he got hung up on the murder thing, i think he thought he was being blamed for it 9in a way he was).

But ultimately he was a business, however he CHOSE to operate as a sole trader, this requires a license to posses chlorates etc. Or as I said before he could have registered the business, a license has yet to be issued to anyone, the reason is simple. Its considered that if a license is required, then normally it is better to registered as a business or work under a research agreement with a uni. Not work from home...

Bottom line, dosnt matter what you think of the rules, if you get a visit and a warning and dont comply, you dont leave any options open for the police. Personally i think a professional chemist should act like one, he admonished some for shoddy business practice, and yet didnt remotely comply with rules regarding storage.
Looking at the pics and videos he got off lightly, had he been a LTD company then other H&S rules would likely of been included in charges.

I have no idea why he wasnt prosecuted for a number of other offenses you can see in the pics, so to me 8 months was a light sentence compared to what you can get. Perchlorates and Chlorates stored amongst all the other stuff in the shed, probably packed the same way, seriously WTF would you expect over reacting non chemist law enforcement to do? Absolutely no effort was made to comply, even if he stopped trading you would of expected more professional behavior.

As a side note

Say you owned an illegal gun in the UK, the police show up twice and tell you to register it (they wouldnt trust me), even though it carries a minimum of two years inside, would you still ignore them and do it your way?

One last thing...
Politics and Chemistry dont mix!

[Edited on 26-12-2017 by NEMO-Chemistry]

Magpie - 26-12-2017 at 08:37

I like Blogfast a lot and admire his work to make AlCl3. His lab looked a little messy, and I don't know about his storage practices.

Thanks NEMO for your post - it explains a lot. I agree with all your points. I just wish he would come back to the forum instead of hanging out with those physics nerds.

aga - 26-12-2017 at 08:48

... Perchlorates and Chlorates stored amongst all the other stuff in the shed, probably packed the same way ...

Bloggers certainly knows what happens when you mix up chemicals A and B in a beaker, bucket or Shed.

The containers he was shipping his wares in were HDPE, UN approved for general chemical shipping & storage (i bought some from him), so i would guess it more likely that he used the appropriate container for the more 'active' items, seeing as he had a big supply of them on hand.

You suggesting that he did not know what he was doing with the storage & handling of his stuff is as farsical as me saying he got his maths wrong.

He had been medically unwell for quite some time before, and during both visits, so maybe ...

Hope he has not suffered too badly in the slammer, and that he returns here one day.

[Edited on 26-12-2017 by aga]

NEMO-Chemistry - 26-12-2017 at 09:20

... Perchlorates and Chlorates stored amongst all the other stuff in the shed, probably packed the same way ...

Aga a couple of points.

I wrote the above after careful thought and a fair bit of research. in many ways it actually open more questions than it answers.

Your first point about alluding to Bloggers not knowing what he was doing.
Absolutely NOT! The exact opposite, but that for me is the hardest part to understand. I also had chemicals supplied by him, all packed correctly, however the label on one was incorrect, this is actually understandable as the regulation is somewhat obscure.

The pictures show what appears to be a flammable substance on a work bench, over 500ml is not allowed to be stored on a work bench or kept above shoulder height. Ok we dont know how much is in the container, however if its under 500ml, then he falls fowl of the rules that dictate appropriate size of container.

In the court case it was noted by the judge that he fully understood the rules (hats off to him for that!!).

Blogfast went out of his way to try and help teach me, it was going well until it became a kind of one upmanship with others. Alot of us noobs got lost quickly, this wasnt down to Blogfast at all. So i owe him a debt of gratitude.

So lets try and apply a little science to this and leave emotion out of it.

Did he know what he was doing?

Yes 100% he knew the law and rules.

Had he been warned?

yes he had been given two chances to comply and didnt.

Whats my real point?

Loads of people on here including blogfast moan and campaign for better understanding of home science, most dont want to see it banned completely. A trained chemist shows complete disrespect for the law, how much damage do you think this alone does to home chemistry?

How can a true amateur argue they are competent and responsible to comply, when even a trained chemist isnt willing to play by the rules at home?

His shed does surprise me, for someone so anal in some ways, it did surprise me that his shed wasnt covered in signs etc etc.

I think potentially he has damaged the home chemistry image, i also think he did it out of shear arrogance rather than malice.

Do i personally think the sentence was harsh?

Tough one to answer. On a personal level i am really sad he went to prison.

On a completely unemotional level, i know he was dealt with lightly, the offenses he was charged with carry a maximum of two years inside, he ignored two warnings.

If you think he has been dealt with harshly then think again, even owning potassium Nitrate and storing it incorrectly caries a penalty. I can spot 30-40 offenses in his shed and i barely know half the rules!!

My gut feeling is, had they really been trying to make an example then he would have had the book thrown, it is possible he could have been looking at 5-7 years served time.

I am not trying to be superior, i am posting as much info as i can in the other thread, as many rules and information as I can find. I dont ever want to see another member like Blogfast face what he has.

And yeah like you i also had the occasional pm with him, like i said he helped me alot, i liked him alot faults and all!

I have written this in the same spirit you wrote yours, and i thank you for the way you posted it. i am aware how much of friendship you had, so i expected a much less measured response to be honest.

I do agree 1000% with the wish that prison hasnt had too much of an impact on him. I dont think he will be back, i think it would be unwise for him. That alone is a real loss to us all, and number one reason for us all to make sure we self police.

Bloggers I know you read this, what i wrote i was sincere in.

NEMO

EDIT
Aga the bit aimed directly at you is this. I am aware he Knew EXACTLY what he was doing, he had advised me on a storage issue, however in the video/pics he has done the exact opposite of what he told me to do..

So I think its a case of do as I say and not as I do. But dont even think i am anything but gutted for him, cross at him yes, but deeply upset for him as well.

[Edited on 26-12-2017 by NEMO-Chemistry]

aga - 26-12-2017 at 11:00

Yeah.

I'm gutted too.

He taught me more about Chemistry than anyone, and managed to be an Inspiration many times.

Since he went down, i've hardly done anything at all chem-wise.

Can't seem to summon the enthusiasm anymore.

NEMO-Chemistry - 26-12-2017 at 11:47

Yeah.

I'm gutted too.

He taught me more about Chemistry than anyone, and managed to be an Inspiration many times.

Since he went down, i've hardly done anything at all chem-wise.

Can't seem to summon the enthusiasm anymore.

I hope he goes onto the physics forums, the bits i will miss are actually, the posts where you and him talk maths, i dont understand a single word of it! But its kinda fascinating at the same time, its made me try and learn maths (i am really retarded at maths, literally).

Thx for taking what i posted in the manner i intended it to be taken.

Just a thought, but i think bloggers would be pissed off if you didnt use the knowledge he helped you gain.

[Edited on 26-12-2017 by NEMO-Chemistry]

ELRIC - 26-12-2017 at 12:03

Does anyone have an estimate on his release date?

NEMO-Chemistry - 26-12-2017 at 12:22

Quote: Originally posted by ELRIC

Does anyone have an estimate on his release date?

It is past his release date, if he has behaved. So i think it safe to assume he is home, where he should be.

I got nothing useful to add, so thats me done in this thread. Best wishes to all

[Edited on 26-12-2017 by NEMO-Chemistry]

aga - 26-12-2017 at 12:53

... the posts where you and him talk maths, i dont understand a single word of it! ...

Erm, you mean the bit where he taught Maths & Quantum to anyone who wanted to learn, and it ended up just me trying to learn ?

Crying shame really: He has the patience of a Saint, and is an Excellent Teacher.

Not that i have used Calculus recently, but the whole idea is still there in the old noggin.

NEMO-Chemistry - 26-12-2017 at 13:45

... the posts where you and him talk maths, i dont understand a single word of it! ...

I think it ended up only you understanding it! many of us carried on reading but you progressed way faster than most could keep up, a great achievement.

You have a good grasp of maths, but some of us are really retarded in that department

. I agree though he was a good teacher, which is utterly ironic considering the job thing. he would have made an excellent teacher at a decent school, might still be an option.

Some the others on here teach, bloody shame none were at my school

aga - 26-12-2017 at 13:51

... but you progressed way faster than most could keep up ...

OMG.
That never occurred to me at all.

Shit. So by learning too fast i stopped others learning. Oh shit.

Sorry to all. That was in no way the intention.

Feck.

When he comes back as his old self, i will try not to be so enthusiastic, but it might be hard, especially after a beer or two.

Magpie - 26-12-2017 at 14:54

I think Blogfast is a chemical engineer, like me. But he knew much more about advanced math and physics than I ever did.

I think through all this he was recovering from a major gut illness. Aga likely knows much more about this.

NEMO-Chemistry - 26-12-2017 at 14:56

... but you progressed way faster than most could keep up ...

Nah its ok, what happens is you learn, we watch and then go back over the thread. Normally you ask most the shit we would anyway, the downside of it is, you dont get to see others learning. So its more like we watch you but you dont get to watch us.

Plus anything that crops up you tend to answer in other threads, all works out in the end.

The Volatile Chemist - 26-12-2017 at 19:20

Yeesh, I didn't know the end result of the matter - the jailing - and just read through the thread. Did he get parole?
Also, noticed this:

http://www.thelawpages.com/criminal-offence/Acquiring,-impor...

If I'm using the website correctly, he was the only one to have had this specific offense....

NEMO-Chemistry - 26-12-2017 at 20:00

Quote: Originally posted by The Volatile Chemist

Yeesh, I didn't know the end result of the matter - the jailing - and just read through the thread. Did he get parole?
Also, noticed this:

http://www.thelawpages.com/criminal-offence/Acquiring,-impor...

If I'm using the website correctly, he was the only one to have had this specific offense....

From what i know so far on the law, this is the most lenient offense he could be charged with. The other offenses that are similar in scope carry harsher sentences and are terror related ones.

As harsh as his punishment sounds, I think its important to keep in mind they didnt have any option to do nothing, so i think they tried to be lenient as they could while still punishing what is a pretty crime here.

Most the people who have had similar charges so far, have all been charged with more serious versions of this offense. So yes it does look like he is the first one.

It is also the cheaper offense (from a fine perspective) that he could have been given, as above I think the reality is, they could have inflicted real pain had they desired. It isnt uncommon for the full costs to be sort!

Had he have had a grass farm, and extracted by say Butane, then the ££££ cost of the operation would have been charged to him. Obviously i wasnt there, this is based purely on the information i am researching on the UK law around home chemistry.

he is not a bad person (far from it) i think this was recognized, but on the other hand the courts dont take kindly to those that ignore directives from the police. Hindsight is wonderful, i am positive had he been thinking clearly this wouldnt have happened.

Shit how many of us have got in some trouble because we refuse to see someone elses perspective? Prison in no picnic, i expect he would have got a cat C or maybe if lucky a CAT D prison, but still no holiday. I am sure it wont take him long to recover from that, the ban from chemistry however is a real bitch.

The law used is based on the poisons act, but it was a recently added clause they used. Considering some of his views that were known to the police, he must have convinced them he was pretty decent, some of his comments alone can get you prison time here now.

Seriously though i dont want to comment further, like aga the more i think about it, the more i find it upsetting. Whatever you thought of him, he had a good heart and he helped alot of people.

Bottom line for everyone in the UK though.... Get your act together, most of us wont get warnings. I seriously think alot of us here (me included) need to take a serious look at how we do things.

EDIT
The charge as it is read, reads like a single charge. However the law is messy in this, look at the attached file, while its aimed mainly at acids, it shows that the offenses he was charged with, can be charged each as a separate crime. That would of effectively been able to give him 6 years total, 2 for importing, two for possession and two for sale of them.

He was charged at a period when things were not as confused as they are currently. I have already been told the law is about to get alot tighter in the UK.

I am trying my best to get as much upto date information as I can for UK home chemists, but things change literally by the week. Not so much in the actual rules, but a great deal in the application of them. The so called great repeal Bill will make things alot worse in the UK.

this isnt a scaremonger thing, i have given reliable links in the legal section to this kind of info.

[Edited on 27-12-2017 by NEMO-Chemistry]

Attachment: CBP-8041.pdf (728kB)
This file has been downloaded 1325 times

Rosco Bodine - 9-10-2018 at 01:28

My theory based on peripheral intel information is that Blogfast25 AKA Gert Meyers was a MI5 psyop agent provocateur.... tasked with a psyop disruptor mission to destroy cohesion and discussion on this board, and by means of sowing discord as a TROLL using ideological conflict and "pushing people's buttons" on controversial subjects ...to create chaos for discussion and moderation....So the entire "persecuted amateur scientist" having legal issues story is a big "fake news" press release that is a total SHAM for public consumption.

SM board has been scammed.

franklyn and anyone else who was banned as a result of all the magic wrought by Blogfast25 should have their posting privileges restored.

[Edited on 10/9/2018 by Rosco Bodine]

hissingnoise - 9-10-2018 at 02:04

RB, have I ever asked you this simple question;─ what in the name of fuck is wrong with you???

j_sum1 - 9-10-2018 at 02:29

Well, RB, franklyn has his own story but he left of his own volition and was not banned.

So, wrong on that point and my guess is even less correct on everything else.

fusso - 9-10-2018 at 02:44

This is what RB was talking about :

GCHQ psychological operations squad targeted Britons for manipulation
Cory Doctorow
3 years ago

The once-secretive, now-notorious Joint Threat Research Intelligence Group ran its online propaganda and manipulation operations at home as well as abroad.

JTRIG's domestic operations used fake accounts to "deter," "promote distrust" and "discredit" in political discussions on social media, uploaded fake book/magazine articles with "incorrect information," hacked websites, set up ecommerce sites that were fraudulent operations designed to rip off their adversaries and so on. They relied on psychological research on inspiring "obedience" and "conformity" to inform their work.

[Edited on 18/10/09 by fusso]

hissingnoise - 9-10-2018 at 02:48

My theory based on peripheral intel information is that Blogfast25 AKA Gert Meyers was a MI5 psyop agent provocateur....

WTF! Beyond stupid ─ and then he can't even get the agency right!

MI5 deals with domestic security only!

phlogiston - 9-10-2018 at 03:20