Sciencemadness Discussion Board - HEET as a source for methanol

HEET as a source for methanol

PlatinumCal99 - 18-2-2007 at 16:27

Has anyone here ever used HEET as their source for methanol? I know that the main component (99%?) of HEET is methanol, but according to their site they put in other "special additives". Does anyone know what these other additives might be, or have any experience where they could make a guess? Thanks

joeflsts - 18-2-2007 at 16:54

I have used Heet for Methanol. Becareful not to use ISOHEET since it is isopropyl and not methanol.

The MSDS for HEET states that the boiling point is 148 F (65C)

Methanol's boiling point is: 64.5C (147F)

You will also notice the MSDS only lists Methanol.

http://zenstoves.net/MSDS/MSDSHeet.htm#SECTION_III_-_Physical/Chemical_Characteristics

Joe

Sauron - 18-2-2007 at 19:32

I take it we are talking something of the Sterno sort?

Hardcore street bums used to call Sterno "squeeze" because they would do just that to extrace the methanol from the jelly like Sterno for drinking. Ugh. Pass the formaldehyde.

dapper - 18-2-2007 at 20:25

HEET is an additive for automobiles to 'remove water' from the gas/fuel lines... hope that helps

That's insane, by the way..

joeflsts - 18-2-2007 at 20:31

Quote:

Originally posted by Sauron
I take it we are talking something of the Sterno sort?

Hardcore street bums used to call Sterno "squeeze" because they would do just that to extrace the methanol from the jelly like Sterno for drinking. Ugh. Pass the formaldehyde.

Heet is a fuel line dryer - should one decide to drink it they won't need to worry about driving.

Joe

PlatinumCal99 - 19-2-2007 at 06:41

Great, thanks for the replies guys.

chemrox - 19-2-2007 at 21:13

What counrty are you in? I bought a gallon of methanol at Home Depot last week (USA). Also bought acetone and ethanol denatured with methanol. Xylene(s) toluene also available. MEK too!

PlatinumCal99 - 20-2-2007 at 07:07

I'm in the US. The local Home Depot does not have methanol

, but they do have everything else you mentioned.

bereal511 - 20-2-2007 at 09:16

Quote:

What counrty are you in? I bought a gallon of methanol at Home Depot last week (USA). Also bought acetone and ethanol denatured with methanol. Xylene(s) toluene also available. MEK too!
Originally posted by chemrox

Which part of the US are you in? I've never seen methanol at the Home Depot in all the times I've been there.

MagicJigPipe - 11-11-2007 at 10:01

Wal-mart has heet (supposedly 99%)! Regular and Iso! And if they have it where I live (meth country) then surely they have it elsewhere in the US. I often thought of using the isoheet as a source for 99% isopropanol but I would like to know what the proprietary mixture is (synthetic oil you say?)! Guess, I could just distill it like everything else.

evil_lurker - 11-11-2007 at 11:20

I ger mine from the local tire shop that handles tractor tires. Just tell them you want to make biodiesel and would like to buy 5 gallons.

Should set you back $20 or so.

smuv - 11-11-2007 at 12:11

One thing about heet, sure it is 99% methanol, but it does have an additive, that upon evaporation yields an oily residue. You can quickly see this fact, by taking about a cap-full of heet and burning it, this additive will remain at the bottom of the container as a little oily droplet. If you are using this methanol for sensitive reactions I would recommend purification via a quick distillation to remove this proprietary additive.

MagicJigPipe - 11-11-2007 at 13:25

Yes, lately I have come into a lot of sodium hydroxide under the guise of making biodiesel. Even some of the distributors who wouldn't sell to me before will now sell to me when I say I'm making biodiesel. It seems when a chemical becomes part of a legal "fad" it becomes completely accepted as legit.

Wouldn't it be great if phosphorus was found to be essential in the purification of biodiesel? I know... just dreaming.....

[Edited on 11-11-2007 by MagicJigPipe]

Mumbles - 12-11-2007 at 21:59

Back a few years ago I distilled some Heet for methanol. It came over just fine. As with anything I discarded the first few mL, and left some liquid in the flask to make sure I didn't boil it dry. I'm sure I had enough methanol to keep whatever oily substance is in there dissolved, but upon adding water to said residual liquid it turned rather milky and cloudy. It looked almost to have a blue tint, but it is hard to say for sure from memory.

The additive is said to be an anti-rusting agent or something to that effect if memory serves me.

S.C. Wack - 23-11-2007 at 18:10

Given these posts and a desire to clean the SS packing in a Hempel column due to an accident that left it coated with carbon and a little carbon-trapped high-boiling product, I distilled 2.5 L of this, the last 500 ml fractionally. Not that there were any fractions. Only at 10 ml remaining in the 1 L flask did the temperature start falling - which is hardly surprising, given that the column only lagged and not heated. This remainder dissolved easily and without cloudiness in water save for my product (which has a distinctive benzaldehydish odor), and for all I know was methanol contaminated with the crap that I was trying to remove. I'll try an entirely fractional and more complete distillation next time I buy some.

prole - 18-3-2008 at 08:26

This has been touched on, but here's my experience. I simple distilled 4L of Heet to obtain purer methanol, and what was left in the distilling flask was a gold/green fluid full of small white particles. The residue was oily/viscous and insoluble in water.

99% IPA can be obtained in one or five gallon cans at paper suppliers that cater to the printing industry. I just walk in and say I have a small press shop, if they ask. They never do. I used to work at this chain of suppliers many years ago and we never asked any questions other than 'will that be all?'. Other press operating chems had neat stuff like benzyl alcohol in them. Interesting to note, though, that twice while I was there the Secret Service arrived unannounced and wanted to view the records of anyone who bought certain papers and inks, but never inquired about chemical purchases (not their juristiction).

shadow - 21-3-2008 at 22:59

I'm baffled at the need to aquire methanol with so much trouble when it's available at your local speed shop. I've had 5 gallons under my desk for about ten years for my model aircraft, and now that I'm getting into home science projects, I think I'll just clean it up a little.
shadouex

MagicJigPipe - 22-3-2008 at 01:25

There are people in different parts of the world here. MeOH is harder to get in some places. In my area (southern US) MeOH is associated with methamphetamine manufacture making it "suspicious".

What's a "speed" shop? The name is funny given what methanol is used for around here! I assume you mean some kind of hobby store, right?

shadow - 22-3-2008 at 07:37

No, they build sprint cars for circle track racing in Los Angeles. That was certainly the wrong choice of word.
I'm pretty sure I've bought it in hobby shops for model aircraft fuel as well.

Methanol

MadHatter - 22-3-2008 at 14:31

"Speed Shop" refers to shops that specialise in high-performance automotive products.
This usually includes methanol for BB funny cars and rails. Sometimes they'll carry nitromethane
for AA class although that's rare. As an example, I bought nitromethane from a speed shop in
Virginia. This is their website if you're interested:

http://www.worldwideracingfuels.com

If you're really that hardpressed for methanol and have the equipment, you could reflux
distill winter version windshield washer fluid. Some of these contain as much as 50% CH3OH
and, AFAIK, CH3OH doesn't form an azeotrope with water. As for "winter" version, just look
for skull-and-crossbones, poisonous label on the container.

[Edited on 2008/3/22 by MadHatter]

shadow - 27-3-2008 at 15:28

Yah! madhatter, I bought a drum of nitromethane from those guys in 1995 for $1000, and shared it with all my model aircraft friends for fuel. I had to pick it up at the Winternationals in Pomona, and I still have a couple gallons.
They only want $1100, I just looked, or $50 for 1 gallon.

[Edited on 27-3-2008 by shadow]

[Edited on 27-3-2008 by shadow]

SuperOxide - 6-11-2021 at 12:44

I don't like posting in old threads - But I was researching this as well (HEET as MeOH source), because when I used it to make anhydrous zinc chloride, after evaporating the MeOH, the product was slightly discolored and smelled a little like hydrocarbon solvents (ie: heptane).

I was told that HEET is basically just pure MeOH, but after this, I fractionally distilled about 1L of it keeping only what came over at 64.0-64.9 °C, then I evaporated what was left over in the distillation pot to see what would remain. It's definitely not pure.

I took some photos, here's one of them:

It was dark in color, pretty thick, only somewhat soluble in water (so there was probably more than 1 constituent there), and smelled like heptane/fuel.

So if anyone else is researching this - HEET works ok for certain things, but do keep in mind there is some impurities in there. So if you use it as a solvent then evaporate it all off, this crap will be left over.

[Edited on 6-11-2021 by SuperOxide]

Morgan - 7-11-2021 at 06:52

Aside from methanol and sometimes nitromethane sold at speed shops, it's funny to see all kinds of fruit scent fragrances for sale to add to your fuel.
https://www.smileysracing.com/shopping/productdetails.aspx?i...

"A much needed item for many drivers that have a difficult time dealing with the nauseating odors of an alcohol fueled vehicle. Enjoy a pleasant scent with less irritation to the eyes and nose. Availability in 4 oz. bottles, one bottle treats 20 gallons of Gasoline, Nitromethane or 30-55 gallons of Methanol."
http://www.motorsportsracingfuels.com/Fragrances.html

SuperOxide - 7-11-2021 at 07:36

Quote: Originally posted by Morgan

Aside from methanol and sometimes nitromethane sold at speed shops, it's funny to see all kinds of fruit scent fragrances for sale to add to your fuel.
https://www.smileysracing.com/shopping/productdetails.aspx?i...

"A much needed item for many drivers that have a difficult time dealing with the nauseating odors of an alcohol fueled vehicle. Enjoy a pleasant scent with less irritation to the eyes and nose. Availability in 4 oz. bottles, one bottle treats 20 gallons of Gasoline, Nitromethane or 30-55 gallons of Methanol."
http://www.motorsportsracingfuels.com/Fragrances.html

Dafuq? lol. I didn't know that, that's hilarious.

monolithic - 7-11-2021 at 08:13

I noticed the same impurity in Heet, but it never seems to come over in distillation. No idea what the impurity is, it doesn't show up on this NMR: https://ilrc.ucf.edu/sample_detail.php?sample_id=443

SuperOxide - 7-11-2021 at 12:32

Quote: Originally posted by monolithic

I noticed the same impurity in Heet, but it never seems to come over in distillation. No idea what the impurity is, it doesn't show up on this NMR: https://ilrc.ucf.edu/sample_detail.php?sample_id=443

Never came out over distillation? Interesting. I did a fraction distillation and basically only kept what came over at 64.0-64.9 °C. Not much came over under that, and when it rose above that I just stopped it and let the rest evaporate. Which is what was in the above pic.

What range did you keep?

monolithic - 8-11-2021 at 05:40

Quote: Originally posted by SuperOxide

Quote: Originally posted by monolithic

Tbh I don't pay attention to the endpoint. I know Heet is pretty clean out of the bottle, so it's usually just a simple distillation: discard the first 10 ml or so and leave 10-20 ml at the tail end because I'm paranoid about distillation to dryness.

Morgan - 8-11-2021 at 18:16

That was interesting seeing the remaining residue/gunk in Heet after distillation. I wonder if the additive(s) is/are a corrosion inhibitor or something to protect elastomers from degrading or both or yet some other additive purpose? Or simply a byproduct from the manufacturing process.

Other thoughts ...
Maybe oxygen is synergistic in some way with Heet even when highly diluted by adding it to a tank of gas in a car.
"Oxygen is more soluble in methanol than it is in water. Methanol can contain up to 40 mg/L of dissolved oxygen at 25°C." Fresh water right at 0 C will hold 14.6mg/L and at 25 C 8.2mg/L.
https://www.fondriest.com/environmental-measurements/paramet...
https://onepetro.org/NACECORR/proceedings-abstract/CORR07/Al...

[Edited on 9-11-2021 by Morgan]

macckone - 10-11-2021 at 14:21

heet is industrial grade methanol, it is supposed to leave zero residue after ignition in a gasoline or diesel engine. So there could be hydrocarbons in it. Possibly as a lubricant. Maybe an emulsifier in case there is too much water in the tank.