Sciencemadness Discussion Board

PREPARATION of a lead salt from soldering wire

Akhil jain - 17-3-2018 at 06:31

As we all know solder iron consists of 60% tin and 40%lead . How can I make a lead salt from that .
I tried boiling it with 6.3M HCl and KNO3 .but even after boiling for free minutes it does not dissolve in it much.
I tried dissolving it by conc.NaOH. but again it did not dissolved.
Now i am thinking to dissolve it in acetic acid and hydrogen peroxide but I am confused that whether tin(IV) acetate is soluble or not or tin will be attacked by acetic acid or not.
Don't suggest me to dissolve it in HNO3 since I don't have any HNO3.
Any information about tin(IV) acetate

XeonTheMGPony - 17-3-2018 at 06:41

look up codies lab, he's don a fair bit with solder, don't dissolve solder iron, bit of a shock hazard there if you forget to unplug it!

Akhil jain - 17-3-2018 at 07:00

Can you give me the link of that video.
I tried this , I took a piece of soldering wire and put it into a test tube ,added 1ml of acetic acid to it and 4ml of 6%H2O2. Soln became cloudy ,hot,and white foam appeared . Why did the solution became cloudy.

XeonTheMGPony - 17-3-2018 at 07:39

no I can't as I don't save links, but he has don a good deal of work using electrochemistry on solders to isolate their constituents.

Fulmen - 17-3-2018 at 07:55

Warm, concentrated sodium hydroxide will dissolve solder (producing sodium plumbate and stannate IIRC). Molten solder will oxidize, but the formed oxide does slow down the reaction rate. A stirrer hotplate capable of melting solder and a iron stir bar will speed up the reaction considerably.

XeonTheMGPony - 17-3-2018 at 08:42

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSRqt7WoQHU, you're lucky stumbled across it while doing my usual viewing.

Akhil jain - 17-3-2018 at 08:44

Quote: Originally posted by Fulmen  
Warm, concentrated sodium hydroxide will dissolve solder (producing sodium plumbate and stannate IIRC). Molten solder will oxidize, but the formed oxide does slow down the reaction rate. A stirrer hotplate capable of melting solder and a iron stir bar will speed up the reaction considerably.

Your method I have tried . It did not worked

highpower48 - 17-3-2018 at 08:48

Actually solder is either 50/50 lead/tin, bar solder or plumbers solder, 60/40 or 63/37 lead/tin. Most solders used in electronics is hollow core with a resin flux in the center. Plumbers solder usually has an acid core. And the new lead free solders as it's names has no lead at all....

Akhil jain - 17-3-2018 at 08:50

I don't want to know information about its composition
I want to know about tin(IV)acetate

XeonTheMGPony - 17-3-2018 at 09:23

Quote: Originally posted by Akhil jain  
I don't want to know information about its composition
I want to know about tin(IV)acetate


And to have a snowballs chance in hell of doing so you need to understand solder compositions, IF you wish to use it as a source for tin.

The type will determine what levels of what metals you get for your effort, so knowing the alloys will help select the best one for the extraction.

You should understand this being in science/technical field.

So step 1: Understand what components make up solder
Step 2: See what parts will compete with your target reaction
Step 3: Develop a process to remove your desired target
Step 4: Remove the target metal then develop the reaction to make your desired substance

So, are you using plumbers? Electrical?, Refrigeration grade? Flux core, rosin core?

But any ways there is a process that will work with solid core solders, and some methods that will remove tin and copper components.



[Edited on 17-3-2018 by XeonTheMGPony]

Akhil jain - 17-3-2018 at 09:32

I already know it's composition no need to tell . What I want to know that you are not telling

XeonTheMGPony - 17-3-2018 at 09:47

I did, it is in codies lab video, the next step is doing it, once you have your tin post back and we'll go to step 4 of the list.

CobaltChloride - 18-3-2018 at 05:12

Isn't the video you linked on lead-free solder? Here we are talking about Sn60Pb40 solder.

Fulmen - 18-3-2018 at 05:45

Akhil: Could you elaborate a bit on what you tried. I KNOW solder dissolves in hot, strong sodium hydroxide, and I KNOW molten solder will oxidize in air when molten. It's not the fastest reactions out there, but it should work.

Ubya - 18-3-2018 at 07:57

Quote: Originally posted by Akhil jain  
Can you give me the link of that video.
I tried this , I took a piece of soldering wire and put it into a test tube ,added 1ml of acetic acid to it and 4ml of 6%H2O2. Soln became cloudy ,hot,and white foam appeared . Why did the solution became cloudy.


mhh after 5 minutes on google i found this https://www.fishersci.com/shop/products/tin-iv-acetate-98-ac...

if you look at specifications it says that tin acetate hydrolyzes in water to form sn(iv) oxide hydrate and acetic acid, so i don't think you can make tin acetate in acqueous solution.
if you just want the lead salt this won't be a problem, dissolve the solder wire in acetic acid and hydrogen peroxide, filter the tin oxide and you got your solution of lead acetate

Akhil jain - 18-3-2018 at 11:48

What I did I filtered that solution this morning .
Added NaCl soln to it and got a white ppt of PbCl2. I decanted the clear solution. Took the ppt with 3parts Na2CO3 and 10ml H2O . Boiled it for few minutes and decanted the solution the upper clear solution . Then took the PbCO3 and added dilute acetic acid to it. But it did not dissolve in it . I did not heat it but I think I should heat it to get lead acetate. I think that the soln that I thrower away contained Sn4+ ions. But I needed Pb+2 ions to do some cool experiments with it.

XeonTheMGPony - 18-3-2018 at 12:16

Quote: Originally posted by CobaltChloride  
Isn't the video you linked on lead-free solder? Here we are talking about Sn60Pb40 solder.


So what do you think will happen to the lead when we remove the tin ;)

We now have pure lead, and pure tin! Now we can use glacial acetic acid and peroxide with warming to get a reaction. Or other novel approaches for either metal!

ATM I am doing my chromium/Nickle separation, once that is don I'll start on separating out lead and tin and try a few things

[Edited on 18-3-2018 by XeonTheMGPony]

[Edited on 18-3-2018 by XeonTheMGPony]

CobaltChloride - 18-3-2018 at 14:38

I also want to separate these metals. Is it a viable option to dissolve it in nitric acid which would create solution of lead nitrate and SnO2? How would I go about reducing SnO2 to Sn metal (besides reduction with charcoal)?

Akhil jain - 19-3-2018 at 00:18

It is very easy to reduce Sn++ to Sn metal by an putting an iron or zinc piece in solution of tin ions

XeonTheMGPony - 19-3-2018 at 03:28

Quote: Originally posted by CobaltChloride  
I also want to separate these metals. Is it a viable option to dissolve it in nitric acid which would create solution of lead nitrate and SnO2? How would I go about reducing SnO2 to Sn metal (besides reduction with charcoal)?


electrochemicaly be easiest method,

Akhil jain - 19-3-2018 at 04:00

Tin forms Sn(NO3)4 with conc HNO3 first we will ppt out Pb ions with NaCl and then we can use electrolysis to get An metal

CobaltChloride - 19-3-2018 at 10:22

Quote: Originally posted by Akhil jain  
Tin forms Sn(NO3)4 with conc HNO3 first we will ppt out Pb ions with NaCl and then we can use electrolysis to get An metal

No. Tin forms insoluble SnO2 in concentrated nitric acid. I am sure of that.

CobaltChloride - 19-3-2018 at 10:23

Quote: Originally posted by XeonTheMGPony  
Quote: Originally posted by CobaltChloride  
I also want to separate these metals. Is it a viable option to dissolve it in nitric acid which would create solution of lead nitrate and SnO2? How would I go about reducing SnO2 to Sn metal (besides reduction with charcoal)?


electrochemicaly be easiest method,

How would I do that with this insoluble compound?

CobaltChloride - 19-3-2018 at 10:24

Quote: Originally posted by Akhil jain  
It is very easy to reduce Sn++ to Sn metal by an putting an iron or zinc piece in solution of tin ions

This won't work here because the tin is not in solution. I could do a thermite-type reaction with aluminium powder though.

Akhil jain - 19-3-2018 at 11:17

No Sn does not forms SnO2 in a mixture of HCl and KNO3 I have tried it the Sn++++ ions were in solution nothing precipitated out

[Edited on 19-3-2018 by Akhil jain]

aga - 19-3-2018 at 12:43

Unfortunately nobody can claim to be the Best Chemist Ever, nor can quick experiments show the Full story.

Sn has a horrible tendency to form metastannic acid under those conditions, given Time.

It's like snot.

http://goldrefiningwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php/Metastannic_...

XeonTheMGPony - 19-3-2018 at 15:54

Quote: Originally posted by CobaltChloride  
Quote: Originally posted by XeonTheMGPony  
Quote: Originally posted by CobaltChloride  
I also want to separate these metals. Is it a viable option to dissolve it in nitric acid which would create solution of lead nitrate and SnO2? How would I go about reducing SnO2 to Sn metal (besides reduction with charcoal)?


electrochemicaly be easiest method,

How would I do that with this insoluble compound?


look at codies lab video it works very well the lead gunk then can be melted and used for what ever or tin for what ever, Tin will be useless for me but I'll make lead acetate via 35%H2O2 and glacial acetic acid

fusso - 20-3-2018 at 00:25

@Akhil:

SnCl4 could probably present in soln so it didnt ppt out.

CobaltChloride - 20-3-2018 at 02:28

Quote: Originally posted by aga  
Unfortunately nobody can claim to be the Best Chemist Ever, nor can quick experiments show the Full story.

Sn has a horrible tendency to form metastannic acid under those conditions, given Time.

It's like snot.

http://goldrefiningwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php/Metastannic_...

Well that's good for this separation because it means we have lead in solution and tin as a precipitate. But the question about reducing it to Sn metal still remains (besides using charcoal as that has a tendency to dissolve in molten metal, thus making impure tin).

[Edited on 20-3-2018 by CobaltChloride]

yobbo II - 20-3-2018 at 08:14

https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=54...