Sciencemadness Discussion Board

making ammonium chloride/sal ammoniac

cogburnd02 - 26-5-2018 at 06:16

I'm new to doing chemistry at home. I'd like to make some amonnium chloride/sal ammoniac from HCl(aq) and NH3(aq). I've got some Jasco-brand Muriatic Acid from Lowe's, the MSDS of which says it is 31-35% HCl, and some Ammonia from Dollar General, the MSDS of which says it is 1-3% Ammonia. It also says it contains Tetrasodium EDTA. First, will the Tetrasodium EDTA screw up the reaction? (I'm mostly making this to clean soldering-iron tips, but also for fun.) What kind of proportions (by capacity) am I looking at? Is it highly exothermic and/or should I do the reaction in an icebath?





Chemi Pharma - 26-5-2018 at 07:09

with this low percentage of ammonea and high percentage of all kind of trash in your "Dollar General" product, you'd better mix this ammonia containing product with caustic soda, heat and bubble the ammonia gas into your Muriatic Acid until Ph 5-6.

It will give you a relatively pure aquous solution of ammonium chloride. If you want the solid salt, just evaporate half the solution, add ethyl alcohol and cool the mixture to precipitate the ammonium chloride.

cogburnd02 - 26-5-2018 at 07:30

For caustic soda: will Drano, Professional Strength Crystals (clog remover) work?

(Its MSDS says it's 30-60% NaOH, 15-40% NaNO3, 7-13% NaCl, and 1-5% Al.)

Deathunter88 - 26-5-2018 at 07:51

Actually, the amount of Tetrasodium EDTA is so low it can be ignored. Just mix stoichiometric amounts of the two and evaporate to get your product.

unionised - 26-5-2018 at 08:08

Sal ammoniac has the potentially useful property that you can purify it by sublimation.

mayko - 26-5-2018 at 10:10

This reaction is nice in that both of the reactants are volatile, so proportions don't matter too much since you can always heat off any excess as you're crystallizing. Since HCl vapors are destructive, I'd use an excess of ammonia (check for a strongly basic pH).

violet sin - 26-5-2018 at 10:25

Go to the hardware store and get janitorial ammonia in the smaller container for a good price, 10% strength is good. I've messed around with the dollar store ammonia and it is almost useless. Even for getting bugsplats off a windshield it sux. I mean any ammonia you can put your nose to the bottle mouth and inhale with impunity,.. it's not really ammonia.

Chemi Pharma - 26-5-2018 at 10:29

Quote: Originally posted by cogburnd02  
For caustic soda: will Drano, Professional Strength Crystals (clog remover) work?

(Its MSDS says it's 30-60% NaOH, 15-40% NaNO3, 7-13% NaCl, and 1-5% Al.)


Will work fine!
Quote: Originally posted by Deathunter88  
Actually, the amount of Tetrasodium EDTA is so low it can be ignored. Just mix stoichiometric amounts of the two and evaporate to get your product.


Even if the amount of EDTA couldn't screw up the things, the other substances inside "Ammonia from Dollar General", the MSDS don't tell us (what about the remaining 96% composition???) would produce a holy crap when mixed with muriatic acid, making very difficult to separate the ammonium chloride, or even generate other side reactions.

I still thinking it's better to mix the "Dollar General ammonia" with "Drano Clog Remover", heat the mixture and bubble the gaseous ammonea inside the "Jasco muriatic acid", like i've said.

EDIT: Or do what @Violet Sin said. Change your source of ammonea by other more reliable with 10% or more ammonea content. This way you can mix it directly into the muriatic acid to produce your ammonium chloride.



[Edited on 26-5-2018 by Chemi Pharma]

unionised - 26-5-2018 at 11:41

Quote: Originally posted by Chemi Pharma  



Even if the amount of EDTA couldn't screw up the things, the other substances inside "Ammonia from Dollar General", the MSDS don't tell us (what about the remaining 96% composition???) would produce a holy crap when mixed with muriatic acid, making very difficult to separate the ammonium chloride, or even generate other side reactions.

I still thinking it's better to mix the "Dollar General ammonia" with "Drano Clog Remover", heat the mixture and bubble the gaseous ammonea inside the "Jasco muriatic acid", like i've said.

[Edited on 26-5-2018 by Chemi Pharma]


If you are going to post stuff like that, make sure you include the anti suck-back device.
Otherwise you are posting dangerous nonsense.

symboom - 26-5-2018 at 11:45

Urea and zinc chloride froming in souble zinc cyanate and ammonium chloride solution i think many transition metal salts form this also Sodium cyanate is made from sodium carbonate and urea in solution

[Edited on 26-5-2018 by symboom]

AJKOER - 27-5-2018 at 18:33

To prepare NH4Cl from home supplies:

2 NH3.H2O + MgSO4 --> (NH4)2SO4 + Mg(OH)2 (s) (I freeze the mix to assist in settling the Mg(OH)2)

(NH4)2SO4 + 2 NaCl = 2 NH4Cl + Na2SO4 (freeze out the Na2SO4.10H2O)

Deathunter88 - 27-5-2018 at 21:00

Quote: Originally posted by Chemi Pharma  
Quote: Originally posted by cogburnd02  
For caustic soda: will Drano, Professional Strength Crystals (clog remover) work?

(Its MSDS says it's 30-60% NaOH, 15-40% NaNO3, 7-13% NaCl, and 1-5% Al.)


Will work fine!
Quote: Originally posted by Deathunter88  
Actually, the amount of Tetrasodium EDTA is so low it can be ignored. Just mix stoichiometric amounts of the two and evaporate to get your product.


Even if the amount of EDTA couldn't screw up the things, the other substances inside "Ammonia from Dollar General", the MSDS don't tell us (what about the remaining 96% composition???) would produce a holy crap when mixed with muriatic acid, making very difficult to separate the ammonium chloride, or even generate other side reactions.

I still thinking it's better to mix the "Dollar General ammonia" with "Drano Clog Remover", heat the mixture and bubble the gaseous ammonea inside the "Jasco muriatic acid", like i've said.

EDIT: Or do what @Violet Sin said. Change your source of ammonea by other more reliable with 10% or more ammonea content. This way you can mix it directly into the muriatic acid to produce your ammonium chloride.
[Edited on 26-5-2018 by Chemi Pharma]


Could the 96% be..water? (Gasp!)

Chemi Pharma - 28-5-2018 at 05:46

No @Deathunter, cause the MSDS say that water is only 0,5926% of the product composition. The rest is really holy crap! This product is not useful to any kind of chemical reactions. See the MSDS of the product attached below.


Attachment: phpI9krlW (141kB)
This file has been downloaded 422 times



[Edited on 28-5-2018 by Chemi Pharma]