Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Bizzare! im kinda wierded out

kclo4 - 6-8-2007 at 21:46

ok so i was doing an expirment related to my pill bug one

i took cold tab water, shook it a ton to put air in it and i placed 1 pill bug in it, it nearly died * i thought it was dead anyways* after 24 minutes

now i took tab water, boiled it and cooled it off to the same temperature before
hot water doesn't dissolve oxygen in it as easily so i figured by doing such a thing, i could tell if the bugs could breath under water at all

but the weird thing is, now there living 35 minutes plus!

but it is important to note there was an air bubble in the boiled water when it was cool

so what could cause this?

less carbon dioxide
less chlorine?
some how, more oxygen?
what els could make them live longer by boiling it?
Im so confused! haha but i guess this does answer my question, if they can breath under water or not because... 35+ minutes is to much for storage, or just not breathing

but yeah why would they live longer in boiled water, that's supposed to have less air in it?

evil_lurker - 6-8-2007 at 22:03

Probably got rid of the chlorine.

kclo4 - 6-8-2007 at 22:07

would it really be that toxic to them? most fish are just fine with tap water
also how can i get rid of oxygen in the water?
any ideas?

[Edited on 6-8-2007 by kclo4]

DeAdFX - 6-8-2007 at 22:21

I remember mythbusters doing something along the lines of this experiment. Except they did water vs vodka with bees. Apparently the water(tap I believe) was more effective at killing bees.

kclo4 - 6-8-2007 at 22:30

Well thats amazing! hard to believe but i guess its true haha wow both of them are still alive!
talk about common ancestors my god

1 hour and 30minutes is amazing in my opinion isn't it?

not_important - 7-8-2007 at 00:36

this lets you calculate the approximate O2 consumption of an arthropod :

the proper expirement would be to use deionised, distilled water, or boiled and cooled water for both the shaked and non-shaken cases. By that calculator it looks as if your subject would need less than a ml of O2 per hour.

[Edited on 7-8-2007 by not_important]

16MillionEyes - 7-8-2007 at 18:34

When you boiled it and cooled it down, did you shake it or just left it like that?

kclo4 - 8-8-2007 at 00:33

Yes, well i boiled water and put some rocks in, dirt, and plant roots and bubbled air into it, and i put several pill bugs in they lived and seemed normal for a while, but eventually all but one died, the time was from around 3:30PM to 1:00AM an amazing ten or more hours for the one to have lived!

so my conclusion is that there is still something els in the water that is killing them, and that there just fine for breathing under water

i guess i should get distilled water and try it but i think perhaps adding lots of salt, around 5% and eventually 27%, or more... i live by the great salt lake... perhaps i can find a use for a new species of pill bug hehe jk

but do you think it could be starvation? absorption of to much water? Chlorine still? Salt contaminants?

anyways I'm testing for all
but what increases dissolved oxygen in water?
I know temperature does but what about; Salt? pH? or something els?

Im sure the more oxygen i can get the better it will be at first.

but i think salt can help also, perhaps... i dont know why haha stop from osmosis from killing them if you could get it the right conc.?

[Edited on 8-8-2007 by kclo4]

16MillionEyes - 8-8-2007 at 05:50

Well, I don't know about osmosis since I'm not positive whether or not the exoeskeleton is permeable at all (I don't think so). The most likely reason they die is lack of oxygen. You also have to consider pressure (I'm assuming one atm is your case) as the higher the preassure is the higher the solubility of a gas.
If you look at this site you'll notice that salinity apperently also plays a role in solubility:
The higher it goes the less soluble although it isn't a significant change (according to that site).
The last thing that I can possibly hypothesize is that according to the other site (from evil lurker) a typical bug like that would need about 0.18 ml O2/hr. and assuming a salinity of 1 (I don't really know what the units for that would be in that site) we have that the amount of oxygen present is 6.28442 mL/L and say you did your experiment in a cup of 250mL you'd have a total amount of oxygen present of 1.57mL. Then we could find for how long, theoritically, should one of the bugs survive based on death due to lack of oxygen. That would take about 8:43 mins, fairly close to what you got in your third experiment of 9 and a half hours. So perhaps for your third trial lack of oxygen was the cause and in the other two other factors still not accounted for (perhaps chlorine as has been suggested?).

[Edited on 8-8-2007 by __________]

[Edited on 8-8-2007 by __________]

kclo4 - 8-8-2007 at 12:36

Oh sorry guys, i forgot to mention i had a bubbler in the last one

the last one i boiled the water, and put it in a bowl with a lot of surface area, and while it was still hot bubbled air into it untill it was cool (help get rid of any dissolved chlorine?)

So its not Suffocation, some other stuff idk
i was thinking perhaps since they are more likely from the ocean they might prefer salinity?

Misanthropy - 16-8-2007 at 15:33

I think it has more to do with how much oxygen is already stored in their book lungs. Not so much to do with anything regarding the water at all.

You'll find scorpions are very efficient in the way they conserve their O2. Some species can live under water for up to a week, IIRC; not to mention other extremes like being frozen in ice blocks.

Scorpions did begin as aquatic creatures anyway though; large & freaky as they must have been at a meter long. I'd guess this has something to do with their ability to pull this sort of stunt off so successfully. "Pill bugs" are derived of some marine genus too I think.

[Edited on 8-16-2007 by Misanthropy]

franklyn - 5-12-2009 at 18:55

Weirded out does not begin to hint at this. It used to be
ideas like this were only portrayed in monster movies.

Reminds me of the dogs trained by Russian military to find food under tanks in the
second world war. These would then be turned loose toting a satchel of explosives
rigged to explode when the dog went under an oncoming german tank.

Other weird use of animals in warfare, the bat bomb.


Saerynide - 6-12-2009 at 06:08

I would think it was the chlorine dissolved in the water. It's amazing how much Cl2 is in tap water (if you're in the US, at least).

I once got lazy and replaced a 1/4 of my aquarium with tap water instead of boiled water like I usually do, and I lost my fish. They all died within hours. I believe they died from suffocation due to gill damage, as they seemed to be desperately gasping for air :(

I know its not due to deoxygenation from the unaerated tap water because 3/4 of the tank water was unchanged, and I never aerate my boiled water before placing it in the tank and the fish are fine. So probably when the bugs took in the water by whatever mechanism they use, the Cl2 entered their bodies and killed them.

On the way to artificial hearts

franklyn - 6-2-2015 at 03:32

Trotsky - 27-2-2015 at 22:53

I'm confused, what's so weird about this? A small bug lasting a few hours underwater? Shit, I remember freezing crickets solid and them coming back as a kid.