The only silver lining is that MEK substitute looks like it's pure ethyl acetate.
Don't worry, you can still get all kinds of rando cellosolves in their "green" offerings.
I think Sunnyside still offers MEK, but I'm not sure. May not be long for this world.
First DCM ban and now this. Time to stock up, I guess.
Texium - 17-9-2018 at 11:07
I don't understand why MEK being discontinued would be such a big problem. I have the same quart can of it that I've probably had for 4 years and I've
barely used any of it. Honestly, ethyl acetate is much more useful, IMO, so I welcome the change. Having both available would be the ideal situation,
of course.Sidmadra - 17-9-2018 at 11:24
Does your store sell this MEK substitute? I just looked up the MSDS and saw it is indeed 100% Ethyl Acetate... I don't know about you but I consider
Ethyl Acetate to be far more valuable than MEK. I've never come across a need for MEK in the lab, but have had countless instances of requiring Ethyl
Acetate. Unfortunately I don't think my local stores sell the MEK Substitute.
Also DCM isn't really banned. You can still buy it as a methanol/gel mixture as the paint stripper. It's an extra step, but it's fairly easy to
distill and wash out the methanol. I do this with a gallon or 2 of the DCM about 2-3 times per year. Which my DCM usually lasts much longer than that
if I take the time to recycle/distill it.macckone - 18-9-2018 at 06:59
DCM was supposed to be banned in all paint strippers due to people dying from using it in confined spaces and suffocating but the current
administration reversed the ban. I haven't seem many products still using it. It seems to be mostly old stock as the manufacturers had already cut
it out of the products in advance of the ban.
MEK is mainly useful for organic plant extractions. It is famously used in cocaine production. Acetone evaporates better but isn't as good for that
particular extraction. Ethyl acetate is useful for many of the same things as MEK except it reacts with some plant compounds making it useless for
the plant extractions. Butane and pentane are commonly used instead of MEK in plant extractions with hexane being used in soybean processing due to
its low toxicity.
Chloroform is useful for many of the same things DCM is used for but has a higher boiling point.
Isopropyl chloride is easily made in a lab and has a slightly lower boiling point than DCM. You don't actually need anhydrous zinc chloride and can
simply add zinc to 70% isopropyl and bubble in hydrochloride gas.S.C. Wack - 18-9-2018 at 15:12
MEK has reactant uses, e.g. acid or base condensation with aldehydes to give intermediates for intermediates...for me the first thing that comes to
mind are names not seen for many years, like twodogs and ning...so I guess it's sentimental.Tdep - 18-9-2018 at 18:00
ns with hexane being used in soybean processing due to its low toxicity.
Is this correct? Because hexane does not fall into a 'low toxicity' category for me. Isn't it the worst of the alkanes? Maybe that's just n-hexane.
N-heptane is fairly non-toxic though.
MEK being gone is sad but I also agree, ethyl acetate is better. This product was never available in Aus, but we can + still get MEK from PVC pipe
weld. Some of the versions of the pipe cement are just pure MEK with some dye (the pure MEK one has red dye) and other brands have mixtures with
acetone, cyclohexane, small amounts of THF. Is that product still available? Because then you have both MEK and ethyl acetate in the same store!
Ethyl acetate can't be made into an explosive peroxide in one step. I wonder if that attributed to its demise? Not that many people seem to make MEKP
above TATP. Someone around here tried to blow up an ATM with MEKP by pouring it on the ATM then lighting it on fire. Didn't work, I think it hurt the
people involved (fireball) and just stained the ATM red lol macckone - 18-9-2018 at 19:51
Yes, n-hexane is used in soybean processing.
And yes it is a comparatively low toxicity.
Ps. I was at the local Ace Hardware and they had MEK, Toluene, and stripper with DCM. The stripper and MEK appeared to be old containers but the
Toluene was new.
So they aren't completely gone.
[Edited on 19-9-2018 by macckone]barbs09 - 19-9-2018 at 04:03
Hello, Not sure what country you are from, but in Australia MEK is sold as a priming fluid for bonding PVC (see link below).
MEK is in PVC bonding compounds in the US as well. Just a very expensive way to get it.SuperOxide - 24-1-2021 at 10:14
I'm running into the same problems finding MEK (in Arizona). I started looking for some so I could synthesize hydrazine sulfate, and every store I
went to (Lowes, Home Depot, Ace Hardware, Walmart, etc) only carried the MEK substitute (which I got, since ethyl acetate is very useful in it's own
right). I do see that MEK is on the DEA's List II chemicals, but so is acetone, ether, potassium permanganate, toluene, HCL and sulfuric acid, all of which were at the stores I went
to.
I did find some suppliers online (example), but they want $60 for one fricken gallon! That's absurd!
My Google-fu found a thread on a different forum where someone explained why it's now hard to find, bit in the list of states where it's banned, AZ wasn't listed
(granted that thread is 2 years old).
What a pain in the arse >_<
P.S. Sorry for posting in an old thread, didn't feel it was appropriate to start a new one for it though.Fyndium - 24-1-2021 at 10:35
$60 for a gallon ain't bad, unless you plan on using it as a large scale solvent. Prices for me are 10€ per L for MEK and 6€/L for acetone. Price
plummets if I buy it via company in bulk, more the merrier, but I don't want to buy every single listed chemical under signature, as someone,
somewhere may draw too many crossing strings. Oh, now that I think it, I actually own every single of them from the lists. Damn..SuperOxide - 24-1-2021 at 11:30
$60 for a gallon ain't bad, unless you plan on using it as a large scale solvent.
Yeah, I suppose I wouldn't
have much other use for it other than a solvent. And I could just use a different solvent or even a different method of making the hydrazine sulfate.
Not too big of a deal.
Oh, now that I think it, I actually own every single of them from the lists. Damn..
Yep, I realized that as
well... It's interesting that the acetic anhydride is on List II, because I feel like if someone were to purchase that, you would likely
attract some attention more so than anything else on that list, maybe even more than on List II.
Then for List I, in addition to the chemicals, they have actual elements! (iodine, red/white phosphorus). That's just absurd to me. That's
like "well, we don't want anyone to make guns... let's put iron on the restricted materials list!"
[Edited on 24-1-2021 by SuperOxide]Fyndium - 24-1-2021 at 12:43
Some of those are somewhat too common to be considered critical precursors. I understand that stuff like P2P or NPP are there, but iodine, phosphorus?
Nope.
In that context, the European list makes more sense. Only critical precursors that have little other uses are in list I. On the other hand, they made
sulfuric acid and gun magazines illegal, so.. Only thing that could make me choose Europe over US is that here you might get conditional term for
breaking a law, while in US 10 years is just a warm-up for starters.SuperOxide - 24-1-2021 at 13:37
Only thing that could make me choose Europe over US is that here you might get conditional term for breaking a law, while in US 10 years is just a
warm-up for starters.
Agreed. US has ridiculous chemical and drug laws... The fact that pot was/is in schedule I, or that crack cocaine carries a harsher sentence than
cocaine HCl is just absurd.
Seems like it's starting to lighten up though, thankfully.
P.S. One other consequence of adding the chemicals to a prohibited list such as List I, is it makes said chemicals that much
more interesting to synthesize on your own - or at least for me it does, lol.
[Edited on 25-1-2021 by SuperOxide]Fyndium - 25-1-2021 at 09:32
The old saying goes: if it is banned, there must be a reason for that. Something boring becomes much more interesting if someone attempts to restrict
it from you. For many, it's just a middle finger for the gov, hey look, you can try but you can't stop me. Only reason I've dreamed of making some
compounds has been that they've deemed extremely difficult to make, not so by the laws of chemistry, making the synthesis an achievement.macckone - 25-1-2021 at 13:27
sunnyside still makes MEK but it is not available in some states.
Toluene is restricted in mine and DCM is just out of the question short of buying acs grade for a ton of money.
However, wyoming has MEK and Toluene and it is not that far.
I picked up a quart of MEK and two gallons of Toluene.
I don't have an immediate use but toluene is useful as an octane booster and MEK is good for cleaning pvc.
DCM is useful for smoothing 3d parts but given the current lack of sources, I would have to pay said tone of money.
The other option is making or buying chloroform (an order of magnitude cheaper) and converting it to DCM.
The reaction is fairly low yielding but given the cost of DCM for me at the moment, it is cheaper.SuperOxide - 25-1-2021 at 22:12
Toluene is restricted in mine and DCM is just out of the question short of buying acs grade for a ton of money.
I couldn't find DCM anywhere except online. I was able to purchase 1L of it for ~$40 from an Amazon seller ($40 for 1L is a little expensive, but since i just use it as a solvent, I recycle it every single chance I get).
Time to stock up, I guess. 