Your favorite primary?

My vote is silver 5-nitrotetrazolate and compex 5-nitrotetrazole primaries.

Primary Compund Explosives and Mixtures

1. 4 (Basic Lead Picrate-Lead Nitrate-Lead Azide)-11 Lead Azide] example 5 of US3431156
2. 4 (Basic Lead Picrate-Lead Nitrate-Lead Azide)-12 Lead Azide] variation
3. 4 (Basic Lead Picrate-Lead Acetate-Lead Azide)-11 Lead Azide] example 2 of US3431156
4. 4 (Basic Lead Picrate-Lead Acetate-Lead Azide)-12 Lead Azide] variation
5. Silver Azide R.D. 1336
6. Mercury Fulminate
7. Mercury Fulminate/Potassium Chlorate 90/10
8. Mercury Fulminate/Potassium Chlorate 80/20
9. Silver Acetylide
10. Silver Acetylide/Silver Nitrate Double Salt
11. Silver Acetylide/Mannitol Hexanitrate 50/50
12. Lead Nitranilate
13. Lead Nitranilate/Mannitol Hexanitrate 50/50

Well here's my developing list of "practical" primary explosives. These primaries are "practical" in the sense that they are actually capable and most quite good at directly initiating the detonation of secondary explosives and are useful as primary charges on top of base charges in compound blasting caps.

These primaries are on my list of good ones for at least three reasons:

First, their precursors are practical to obtain, thus making synthesis possible. In fact I have found the most difficult precursor to obtain of those primaries on the list is mercury for mercury fulminate. It has become the unfortunate victim of wacco environ"mental"ists who find some of mercury's properties "evil", but even it can still be found here and there.

Secondly, even though these are primary explosives there sensitivity is such that they have practical safety in handling in the sense that they don't just detonate if you look at them. Safety precations are still essential to their handling, but these really are "safer" than many alternatives.

Thirdly, their chemical stability and storage life is such that they can be stored for a period of time, at least one year of dark, dry, and cool, and still retain their initiatory abilities. The key to proper storage for a long life is to store in cool temperatures between 5-20*C. At such temperatures you can expect the azides to last for decades and mercury fulminate 7-10 years (figures for storage life taken from TM 9-1300-214 Chapter 7). Silver acetylide is not as stable as mercury fulminate, but if stored in cool, dry, dark it will last more than a year and retain it's abilities to initiate HE's. Less is known about lead nitranilate's storage life, but it is better than organic peroxides at sitting around.

That #2 on the list , the 4/12 azo-clathrate from
Mr. Anonymous is an old favorite of mine

We did not go extensively into the properties however so:
Not sure how their formula and structure works out, I am going to assume a typo unless someone corrects me.

Lead Azide

A really good primary I once heard of was a mixture of equal parts of AgN3, Ag2C2*AgNO3 and PETN. 30 mg of this mixure is capable of detonating PETN reliably. It is less friction-sensitive than Pb(N3)2 alone, and even less shock-sensitive than Ag2C2*AgNO3.

There is btw one thing I don't really understand about the azo-clathrates sickman presents. Apparently you can make azo-clathrates form leadacetate to. I always thought that azo-clathrates contain an amount of (solid) lead nitrate trapped in their cristals, in that case Pb(NO3)2 acts as an oxidiser increasing the OB of the compound. Wouldn't the acetate only act as an intert, lowering the brisancy? Or is the solutible leadsalt (Acetate or Nitrate) not a part of the actual compound, and just stays in solution?

[Edited on 24-2-2008 by Leander]

[Edited on 24-2-2008 by Leander]

Your post doesn't puzzle the others but I do ear your tiny scream .

In the picture you attached, they obviously made a typo between Ag and Hg in the formula first and afterwards in the tittle.

1°)Ag is usually monovalent, not bivalent, while Hg is bivalent (sometimes with inter Hg bridging making it look like monovalent ex Cl-Hg-Hg-Cl)
2°)They speak about Hg nitrotetrazolate as interesting replacement in military uses in place of LA and suddently they show the Ag salt structure...
3°)The gross formula lists 10 Hydrogen atoms instead of 10 Nitrogens

Definitely a typo.
So as a conclusion 1,1'-Mercury bis-5,5'- nitrotetrazole

Funny to see they keep on going on further into the mistake... maybe they have fused a paragraph on the Hg and one on the Ag nitrotetrazole.
******************************
Personnally as primary,
I use Ag2C2.xHNO3 complex admixed with Ni(NH2-NH2)3(NO3)2 (mass ratio 1/2) ...unreactive towards each other, reliable from flame, stores wel for years, non hygroscopic, easy to do and to isolate, not too shock sensitive,VOD arround 6500 m/s, lead block test arround 375 ccm/10g

But I'm sure I will find other ones I will really fall in love about.

[Edited on 26-2-2008 by PHILOU Zrealone]

[Edited on 26-2-2008 by PHILOU Zrealone]

[Edited on 26-2-2008 by PHILOU Zrealone]

Silver Valence

Maybe due to the names?
Argent....Hydr Argent (HydrAgentum) (hence the Hg symbol)
Silver...Quick Silver
Silver...kwik Silver
Ag...Hg the typo can also be made quite fast

For the rest valence can be set to other values but the expected AgII, or other would be extreemly oxydant...

I estimate, that best choice for reliable detonation of some secondary EM, is Silver Acetylide - Double salt. In todays times = SA-DS. Non-toxic, easy readyable. Diluted weak HNO3, Ag, Calcium Carbide. And as bonus pretty nice reaction. But I not use it. I use Tetraamine copper perchlorate-hexamine clathrate.
Shortly CHP. About CHP you can tick cigarette without consequences. If is not in cavity. With SA-DS is impossible it.....

LL good reply. But I think small crystals of AGNiPerchlorate is less sensitive than SADS, and so so much more powerful. Wow.

I owe this to tetrazolelvr. He’s the man. You need to try this stuff LL.. it’s the most addictive EM

A lot of improvements can be made in modifying the crystal size, shock gel, grinding (underwater, safely).

Ho Hoooo,......Very thanks. Ingenious sentence: CHP is revolutionary, it bridges the gap between primaries and secondaries.
It could be described into stone!......
Well, aminoguanidine nickel perchlorate. Maybe will examinated.

[Edited on 24-1-2019 by Laboratory of Liptakov]

I want to try both CHP and Aminoguanidine Nickel Perchlorate since SADS and AP are a bit scary

Anytime, when I manipulate with SADS, I am prayer to God. Anytime when is manipulate with CHP, I smoke and knocking ashes around own, without any pray...........LL

CHP is a relatively new energy material invented 4 years ago. Its behavior is something between primary and secondary properties. It requires a solid metal cavity for reliable operation. It is less sensitive to friction. Loose in the air, or only weakly burned in a weak container without detonation. It is a mixture of TACP = teraamine copper perchlorate with admixture of hexamine, usually 4-8%. Preferably 6%.......LL
However, in slow heating in aluminium foil, in 8 layers of amount about 200 mg is detonation sure always........LL

What...?.....It I must try also........LL

Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov

CHP is a relatively new energy material invented 4 years ago. Its behavior is something between primary and secondary properties. It requires a solid metal cavity for reliable operation. It is less sensitive to friction. Loose in the air, or only weakly burned in a weak container without detonation. It is a mixture of TACP = teraamine copper perchlorate with admixture of hexamine, usually 4-8%. Preferably 6%.......LL However, in slow heating in aluminium foil, in 8 layers of amount about 200 mg is detonation sure always........LL

Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov

It is a mixture of TACP = teraamine copper perchlorate with admixture of hexamine, usually 4-8%. Preferably 6%.......LL However, in slow heating in aluminium foil, in 8 layers of amount about 200 mg is detonation sure always........LL

@...twelti....Maybe is time try a new system MineMan-Liptakov initiator. Wrap 200mg CHP + 200 mg ETN (as mixture) in 8 layers of Alu foil. With insered normal resist bridge. And enclose 200 mg ETN ( in thin 3 layers Alu) on some side on this pear bag shape. And Wrap into 8 layers of alu foil again. Can be works maybe. Without thick metal cavity.......LL....Tomorrow I will try it. Very interest........LL

Described MineMan-Liptakov initiator was tested. Unfortunately, burning only........LL

Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov

Described MineMan-Liptakov initiator was tested. Unfortunately, burning only........LL

Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov

Because MineMan system require slow heating ETN. It require use some slow thermite in center and ETN around as layer on alu foil. For electric type. This construction is possible with the fuse easily, but not tested from me.

Copper tube disappeared into sawdust........LL

Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov

Copper tube disappeared into sawdust........LL

Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov

Not, on metal surface were not any damage. It was only deflagration. Same as from flash powder.

CHP

Truth. CHP is, in terms of production, simpler than ETN. Much easier. Which must be recognized by anyone who has produced ETN at least once. But the CHP brizance is only 10-20% smaller than for ETN. It is not serious problem. CHP has the ability to initiate any secondary explosive, same as ETN. 1g CHP is as reliable as 0.7g ETN. And another thing. About ETN we know almost everything. But about CHP or TACP little. Which is a serious reason what researching TACP and his mixtures. TACP is ecological. Compared to ETN. What to do with consumed strong acids? I always have a problem with that. But what about ammonia water from the reaction for TACP? Almost no problem. Ammonia water from reaction is possible boil. After evsporate all NH3 we obtain water with CuO + NH4ClO4. Both compound is possible use for next synthesis. Is it almost closure circle of ecological process. Also is possible boil ammonia water and use cooler. And from all compounds in from waste, we create all starts parts again. Which is total closure ecological circle. In terms of production. Process preparation of TACP (and CHP) run simply at temperature 25 C. Nothing cooling, nothing heating. Maybe short drying 10 minute is at 50 C. But is it not condition.
I don't know better and stronger material, than TACP + fuel Dot.........LL
Even preparation TACP from NH4ClO4 + CuO + Ammonia water in closure container is without smell. Incredible comfort methode.

[Edited on 19-4-2019 by Laboratory of Liptakov]

Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov

Truth. CHP is, in terms of production, simpler than ETN. Much easier. Which must be recognized by anyone who has produced ETN at least once. But the CHP brizance is only 10-20% smaller than for ETN. It is not serious problem. CHP has the ability to initiate any secondary explosive, same as ETN. 1g CHP is as reliable as 0.7g ETN. And another thing. About ETN we know almost everything. But about CHP or TACP little. Which is a serious reason what researching TACP and his mixtures. TACP is ecological. Compared to ETN. What to do with consumed strong acids? I always have a problem with that. But what about ammonia water from the reaction for TACP? Almost no problem. Ammonia water from reaction is possible boil. After evsporate all NH3 we obtain water with CuO + NH4ClO4. Both compound is possible use for next synthesis. Is it almost closure circle of ecological process. Also is possible boil ammonia water and use cooler. And from all compounds in from waste, we create all starts parts again. Which is total closure ecological circle. In terms of production. Process preparation of TACP (and CHP) run simply at temperature 25 C. Nothing cooling, nothing heating. Maybe short drying 10 minute is at 50 C. But is it not condition. I don't know better and stronger material, than TACP + fuel Dot.........LL Even preparation TACP from NH4ClO4 + CuO + Ammonia water in closure container is without smell. Incredible comfort methode. [Edited on 19-4-2019 by Laboratory of Liptakov]

I cant wait to get AP on my hands. Dr you are teasing us so much

Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov

Truth. CHP is, in terms of production, simpler than ETN. Much easier. Which must be recognized by anyone who has produced ETN at least once. But the CHP brizance is only 10-20% smaller than for ETN. It is not serious problem. CHP has the ability to initiate any secondary explosive, same as ETN. 1g CHP is as reliable as 0.7g ETN. And another thing. About ETN we know almost everything. But about CHP or TACP little. Which is a serious reason what researching TACP and his mixtures. TACP is ecological. Compared to ETN. What to do with consumed strong acids? I always have a problem with that. But what about ammonia water from the reaction for TACP? Almost no problem. Ammonia water from reaction is possible boil. After evsporate all NH3 we obtain water with CuO + NH4ClO4. Both compound is possible use for next synthesis. Is it almost closure circle of ecological process. Also is possible boil ammonia water and use cooler. And from all compounds in from waste, we create all starts parts again. Which is total closure ecological circle. In terms of production. Process preparation of TACP (and CHP) run simply at temperature 25 C. Nothing cooling, nothing heating. Maybe short drying 10 minute is at 50 C. But is it not condition. I don't know better and stronger material, than TACP + fuel Dot.........LL Even preparation TACP from NH4ClO4 + CuO + Ammonia water in closure container is without smell. Incredible comfort methode. [Edited on 19-4-2019 by Laboratory of Liptakov]

CHP

Quote: Originally posted by Tsjerk

So you're heating a borderline primary with a borderline secondary in amounts that suffice to function as a detonator? Applause for you sir!

I am heating, without flame, two energetics way below their reaction temperatures. We melt cast ETN all the time at that temp and NHN doesn't do anything until you reach passed 200°C. So there is absolutely no chance for anything bad to happen at the temperatures I am reccomending, simple physics and chemistry.

FYI here is what I use to heat my composition, also to cook my steaks https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01HHYEGPG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b...



[Edited on 30-6-2019 by wessonsmith]

[Edited on 30-6-2019 by wessonsmith]

Quote: Originally posted by Tsjerk

You didn't mention that when recommending it to the world. Molten, ETN becomes as sensitive as TATP. [Edited on 30-6-2019 by Tsjerk]

Quote: Originally posted by Simoski

Thermal shock detonation of ETN. ETN wrapped in 3 layers alu foil, surrounded by black powder ,light the black powder with a fuse and win... https://youtu.be/R2SR3nMS9Jw [Edited on 16-4-2019 by Simoski]

I am reposting this due to a valid point that Tsjerk made. I did not specify when recommending the heating of the composition that I wasn’t using a flame source for heat. Also, there is no need to touch the heated composition until after it has cooled down, thus not interacting with the VERY sensitive molten ETN


Actually, a much simpler method for a thermal shock for ETN is to mix, dry, NHN and ETN together in a 40% NHN / 60% ETN composition and place in your detonator tube and heat at 185°F for 10 min. What you end up with is very powerful and relatively insensitive, for a primary, solid that when lightly confined will detonate with a simple Visco Fuse. The explosive composition has a +.88% oxygen balance. The positive OB% gives the composition added performance.

I use this composition for my firecrackers. My little firecrackers have the power of a #8 detonator without the fragment danger. My M80 size firecrackers are INSANELY powerful, basically twice the power of the old school M80's.

The temperature shown is a MUST. Lower or higher will result in a failed or not as powerful composition due to the excessive or under heating of the ETN. Also, I am NOT using a flame source for my heat. Using a flame to heat energetics is STUPID and everyone should have a basic understanding of that. If you use a flame to heat your energetic you WILL win your Darwin award.

It took some trial and error to get it just right. It's mind blowing how powerful this composition is. And since it's based on NHN and ETN it can sit on a shelf for decades and won't react with containers and isn't hygroscopic.

FYI here is what I use to heat my composition, also to cook my steaks https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01HHYEGPG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b...

Quote: Originally posted by wessonsmith

When I give advice I assume a basic understanding of the energetics that are being used by the user.

Assumptions on the Internet
I know how this experience ends !

Not only people become pig headed on the Internet but also written communication only passes on 7-8% of what a face to face conversation would.

Quote: Originally posted by Herr Haber

Quote: Originally posted by wessonsmith   When I give advice I assume a basic understanding of the energetics that are being used by the user. Assumptions on the Internet I know how this experience ends ! Not only people become pig headed on the Internet but also written communication only passes on 7-8% of what a face to face conversation would.

Quote: Originally posted by wessonsmith

[snip] And since it's based on NHN and ETN it can sit on a shelf for decades [snip]

Quote: Originally posted by MineMan

Sound advice Rosco. Agreed Wesson, probably not the stability for decades. But for amateur use 4 years is plenty. Keep up the great work Wesson. I do have to say. We really need an EM with better stability and safety then ETN that is melt cast. I personally don’t like ETN. But s good solution none the less. I am more than intrigued. But would prefer straight NHN.

Quote: Originally posted by Rosco Bodine

What is the CE acronym mentioned in the article?

Yeah, I had to look that one up too CE refers to Tetryl. It's one of the synonyms for Tetryl.

Tetryl; (Trinitrophenyl)methylnitramine; CE; N-Methyl-N-picrylnitramine; N-Picryl-N-methylnitramine; Nitramine; Picrylmethylnitramine; Picrylnitromethylamine; Tetralit; Tetralite; Tetril; 2,4,6-Tetryl; Tétryl; Tetrile





[Edited on 3-7-2019 by wessonsmith]

Quote: Originally posted by Rosco Bodine

Early patent references to NHN reported a larger than usual critical diameter for DDT of the compressed powder, something like 9-10 mm IIRC. That may explain why the porous structure is required, as that generally tends to reduce the critical diameter. Glass microballoons like are used for thixotropic thickening and density lowering for casting resins and fiberglass work are sold at boating and marine supply stores. Mixing in a couple of percent of the glass microballoons could tune the completely fused at higher temperature composite so that it functions normally. Nickel Semicarbazide Nitrate is also mentioned in the patent. And while the perchlorate variant of the Nickel Hydrazine complex is infamous and notoriously dangerously sensitive 5 grams took off 3 fingers of a college student in Texas ....oops and uh oh on that maneuver https://cen.acs.org/articles/88/i34/Texas-Tech-Lessons.html ....there is no reference I have found about the Semicarbazide complex of Nickel Perchlorate...which could be worthwhile if it doesn't share the same instability as the hydrazine Nickel perchlorate complex. Betaine perchlorate is another material worth investigation. It is energetic by itself and also capable of complexing metal perchlorates.....as is the same for glycine. Typically these would displace and partly or completely replace the ammonium from the ammonium complexed metallic salt in solution. [Edited on 7/3/2019 by Rosco Bodine]

Interesting info, thanks. I can confirm my Dextrinated NHN by its self will detonate in 5.6mm internal diameter steel tubing. All my robust detonators have been based on that internal diameter for a few years now with great effect.

One thing NHN likes/needs is column height. It seems that there is a necessary minimum of height for the NHN to reliably make the DDT. In my case a column height of 6.5mm with 300mg of NHN for a density of 1.6g/cm³

I have heard of microballoons being used to increase the sensitivity of explosive compositions, in my case, this would not be helpful, my composition is sensitive enough.

I was able to detonate the non-heat treated binary composition using the method I described in the update, but when using just a Visco fuse on the non-heat treated composition it acts more like flash powder. It is mindblowing to me that I was able to find, through experimentation, the proper temperature and time of heat treatment for the cardboard firecracker tubes. I should note that even the much larger diameter cardboard tube 14.7mm internal diameter also detonates with the same temp and time.

Using plastic and steel tubing requires very different time and temp profile, which I haven't yet successfully figured out Obviously, the temp range is between 65C - 90C. Getting that temp and time though is the trick.




[Edited on 4-7-2019 by wessonsmith]

Quote: Originally posted by Rosco Bodine

Early patent references to NHN reported a larger than usual critical diameter for DDT of the compressed powder, something like 9-10 mm IIRC. That may explain why the porous structure is required, as that generally tends to reduce the critical diameter. Glass microballoons like are used for thixotropic thickening and density lowering for casting resins and fiberglass work are sold at boating and marine supply stores. Mixing in a couple of percent of the glass microballoons could tune the completely fused at higher temperature composite so that it functions normally. Nickel Semicarbazide Nitrate is also mentioned in the patent. And while the perchlorate variant of the Nickel Hydrazine complex is infamous and notoriously dangerously sensitive 5 grams took off 3 fingers of a college student in Texas ....oops and uh oh on that maneuver https://cen.acs.org/articles/88/i34/Texas-Tech-Lessons.html ....there is no reference I have found about the Semicarbazide complex of Nickel Perchlorate...which could be worthwhile if it doesn't share the same instability as the hydrazine Nickel perchlorate complex. Betaine perchlorate is another material worth investigation. It is energetic by itself and also capable of complexing metal perchlorates.....as is the same for glycine. Typically these would displace and partly or completely replace the ammonium from the ammonium complexed metallic salt in solution. [Edited on 7/3/2019 by Rosco Bodine][/rquote] Interesting info, thanks. I can confirm my Dextrinated NHN by its self will detonate in 5.6mm internal diameter steel tubing. All my robust detonators have been based on that internal diameter for a few years now with great effect.

Quote:

I was able to detonate the non-heat treated binary composition using the method I described in the update, but when using just a Visco fuse on the non-heat treated composition it acts more like flash powder. It is mindblowing to me that I was able to find, through experimentation, the proper temperature and time of heat treatment for the cardboard firecracker tubes. I should note that even the much larger diameter cardboard tube 14.7mm internal diameter also detonates with the same temp and time. Using plastic and steel tubing requires very different time and temp profile, which I haven't yet successfully figured out Obviously, the temp range is between 65C - 90C. Getting that temp and time though is the trick.

Strength of confinement difference will cause an increase in critical diameter for a plastic detonator capsule....it can easily double that parameter. I often use poly culture tubes for spot testing and that has been a general observation that for a detuned system being tested as a firing train it roughly doubles what is needed for a highly tuned and optimized configuration, and that follows for the entire device. If expediency is the more important parameter than economy and efficient use of minimum amounts of energetic material, simply doubling amounts or even tripling what would be needed in a tuned and optimized system will get the job done.

Blowing the hell out of something isn't likely to be a job ruined like putting too much salt in a pot of chili .....So it is generally just fine if there is a bigger crater where the kitchen used to be, than was the minimized hole in the ground intended ....Hey a bonus is provided for a better outcome than an inadequate performance that would leave one wanting ....and asking is that all you've got?

Had a couple of past dates go that way ....
and had to send 'em back to school.
Hey they will get it right eventually and
maybe come back to see me when they
know how the story goes. Hot little lynxes
are all welcome and God bless 'em all
but no cold and dominating feminazi bitches need apply.

Thanks Rosco

Quote: Originally posted by caterpillar

Look, guys, what I've found: https://miningandblasting.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/primar...

Quote: Originally posted by twelti

I've see it. I always wondered about the "milk booster". Sounds like casein nitrate of some sort.

Quote: Originally posted by caterpillar

Look, guys, what I've found: https://miningandblasting.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/primar...

Ahh, the good ole days of HMTD and Acetone peroxide.

You can tell this was published in 1998. "The drawback to NITROMANNITE is that Mannose is not readily available." Before eBay, Amazon, and Alibaba

Quote: Originally posted by MineMan

I am thinking there must be some good primaries based on carbohydrazide...

Quote: Originally posted by Rosco Bodine

Quote: Originally posted by MineMan   I am thinking there must be some good primaries based on carbohydrazide... I think you are correct. I think it is also possible that the NCP can form compound salts like could happen for example if a solution of nickel perchlorate or copper perchlorate was gradually added to a solution of mixed carbohydrazide in solution along with glycine or betaine ...that the result might be a compound mixed salt having interesting properties. Copper perchlorate might function similarly.

But what do I know

The Democrat primary is sidesplitting.

.