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markx
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Quote: Originally posted by a11051605  | | Hmm been reading about NG and kinda confusing cause so much conflicting info out there. Some claim it's super hazardous and will blow up with one
wrong look, and others claim to have synth'ed it and as long as you keep your temps in check during synth and treat product with respect that it is
actually harder to det then alot of the peroxide based explosives. Any thoughts or experiance any one? |
Liquid nitroesters are uncomfortable to work with during synthesis and purification. They tend to bind water and acids and need tenacious
netralisation and purification for stability.... may become absorbed into surfaces when spilled....absorb through skin and affect the vascular system
(dilation of blood vessels results). Even when mixed with porous material the esters still tend to creep out and become absorbed into surroundings
contaminating them.
The sensitivity is not too terrible (e.g. EGDN) , it takes a premeditated attempt to cause a detonation. An occasional light touch or tumble usually
go unnoticed, but they are very far from being safe to handle. There are some things to avoid during synthesis though....like glass to glass surface
contact. Swirling a glass thermometer around in the reactor, rubbing against the sides or bottom of the flask is a no no. Researchers have been
maimed and some have met their end at attempts to synthesize liquid nitroesters....so that should really sum it up.
For general practical purposes there is little to be gained from the liquid esters compared to solid alternatives.
Well....if you really have the intent to study the realm of high energetics in practice, then I would suggest to go slow, in stages and small scale.
Do not rush to breaking rocks with an improvised solution without thorough previous preparation or research.
Exact science is a figment of imagination.......
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Herr Haber
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Great, Markx avoided me a long post 
About purification of nitroesters: the stage is not optional of course but you are planning for immediate use so it may not be as thorough. There's no
good reason to store NG otherwise.
You should get a few books from SM Library. All 4 of Urbanski are great reference books. There's been a lot of names and acronyms used in these 2
pages and you'll find them all there. These books are as much about chemistry as they are about history and based on what you say you might fall into
them.
That said, based on the conditions you described (access, rock, bore size etc) I'd keep a simple backpacking trip as simple as possible and go for
black powder, fuse and a bit of mud picked up on the way or made on site. Peace of mind and all that...
No stress because you dont have to prepare your EM yourself, purify it, package it, prime it, chose ignition type and all that. Maybe you dont need
all that trouble. Aaaand of course you can buy black powder legally and you can expect how it will behave. Safety fuse or bickford fuse should be
simple to find and better than visco fuse and that's it.
In a 1 inch diameter hole you can put a lot of black powder and apparently you have someone who knows how to drill. If you take some time thinking on
how to best make your hole you'll definitely break something. Your objective being the ore after I suppose you'll have plenty of steel with you to
process what you break.
A friend says something that translates as "there's no hard rock, only soft arms"
[Edited on 14-12-2018 by Herr Haber]
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TGSpecialist1
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Personally, I'd use 300-400 g of flash powder, mix on site in batches, just pour into the borehole, place fuse/electric cap, plug tightly with a rag,
pour about a foot of sand over it, and light it.
No tamping!
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Tsjerk
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| Quote: Originally posted by TGSpecialist1 | Personally, I'd use 300-400 g of flash powder, mix on site in batches, just pour into the borehole, place fuse/electric cap, plug tightly with a rag,
pour about a foot of sand over it, and light it.
No tamping! |
Worst advice ever. Just pour it in? And then put a fuse in it? You want to mix at home, where you are comfortably sitting or standing, put it in a
container, like a carton tube or so, and add the fuse. Now you make sure the outside of the container is clean of FP and you are good to go.
If you do what you recommend the fuse will ignite the FP left everywhere, immediately setting of the main charge and blow you to smithereens.
Edit; always make sure you are comfortably standing or sitting when doing something that requires concentration. I always see students who try to for
example do microscopy while hanging over their fellow student in an angle no one would like for more than five seconds and then try to find something
hard to find. Within ten seconds they start complaining it isn't there... When you study for an exam you also don't go do that sitting on your knees
on some rocks. Or balancing because the terrain is not flat.
The first thing I did when a student asked to find something for them through a microscope was to confiscate their chair. I'm not going to hover in
mid air doing something that is difficult.
Just mix your FP at home, not in some potentially windy, wet and or dirty field you have never been before.
[Edited on 15-12-2018 by Tsjerk]
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MineMan
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Ok. Fear not. MineMan is here! And I understand your business!
First, I must ask a few questions, then I will give you perfect advice...
1/2 ton sample of rock!? Are you going to do processing test?? Because for assays a pound is enough!
Second, how large is your vien? We want to minimize dilution...
What minerals are we after? Quartz so I assume native gold....
For underground mining a powder factor on the order of 2-4lbs will suffice. But that is with a well designed blast, this is a single hole, the
problem is we only have one free face to break to... which means more powder!
Are you Drilling this hole with a hand steel??
Honestly, your not going to get a half ton sample with 1 inch hole 2 feet deep...but maybe 100-200lbs.
What is the orientation of your vien, will the hole be vertical or horizontal because if we can get that hole deeper stemming will help!
Can you give us a brief rockmass discription? Joint sets, weathering, alteration? If it’s highly mineralized it should blast rather easy.
Last question, do you need a mining partner  ??
Ok. Here is what you want to do, forget primaries, you DONT NEED them, all you need is your standard 70/30 flashpowder and ANAL... sure you can add a
few percent diesel, even the standard 6 percent will work. ANFO CAN be detonated by FLash in a hard rock environment.
Mix up 5-10 grams of flash, (the more cofienment the better) and fill your hole with 5% Al, 92%AN, and 3% ethylene glycol or diesel... yes crush the
AN prills.
Remember, when a single borehole is blasted it makes a crater in the shape of a carrot... therefore there will be dilution because at the top of the
hole I it will blow out more than the vien while the bottom it will just blow out a sliver.
PM me if you want, this stuff is like candy...
If you can tell me what type of test you plan to run on the ore I can help you choose the best “blast”
[Edited on 15-12-2018 by MineMan]
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RogueRose
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IDK how much adding a sealant helps contain the blast, I would think it would help at the bottom/deepest part of the hole. Maybe something like an
1/2" of sand could be added and then melted paraffin could be added for a few inches above it (in the hole). From what I remember paraffin doesn't
compress (or at least not much) so maybe that can act like water in some way w/o worrying about adding water to a hole that could destroy the charge.
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a11051605
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Nice reply MineMan, can tell by your questions and reply that we both have the miner mindset.
As far as sample size ya im going to process then crush to around 100 mesh and then sieve and separate multiple samples and average out assays. Figure
1/4 ton to 1/2 ton bulk samples should be good, those of course will be broken down into multi assays and remaining used on pilot mill set ups to
check recovery rates. Pretty much am a one man army any more as far as locating the rock, breaking it, removing it, crushing and recovering values,
then smelting and refining.
As far as the drilling, no im not doing it by hand, got gasoline powered rock drills that are set up right now to go 5ft deep.
Rock and ore we are after is polymetallic ore veins in your normal quartz and granitoid ore bodies. With Veins that very in width from spidery stock
works to 20' wide, just depends on location and vein.
As far as the drilling and blasting i'm looking at doing blasting array with say 6-8 charges plus a few dead/empty holes. Reading the Blasters hand
book right now and studying up on blast patterns.
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MineMan
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Ok. So your familer with the sampling procedure I gather, cones, quartering and etc...
The drill cuttings would be a great place to start, if your drill can go 5 feet down with a 1 inch bit... or is it the same bit as a jackleg? That
will give you some volume for sampling. With a couple of holes and ANALFO (ammonium nitrate aluminum fuel oil) you will get the quantity.
40 element assay? And then a fire assay for gold?
Yup. Your burner holes in the middle. Your lifters on the bottom and your regular holes. The problem is you can’t do timing with the fuse, And one
hole very well might blow your other holes out. For patterns you really want delays, and maybe I am not too creative tonight but I don’t know of an
amatuer way to do that...
Nonel diets should cost you about 7 dollars, the delivery charge will be the biggest.
You could use some quick fuse (several feet per second) or better yet electrical quick matches and just set off all the holes at once. It won’t
throw, it will be harder to muck, and could damage your back, but I don’t see another way. It should work.
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a11051605
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Ya been brain storming on timing for the array. Luckly my back ground is electrical/controls so I know I can rig up somthing. Just need afew mill
second delay, could maybe program my own controller for the firing sequence, or buy one through some hook ups of mine.
Ya looking into 40 element and fire assay, although I will probably do my own fire assay first then send out anything interesting for 2nd
assay/opinion. Payen for all those assays add up quick. Biggest thing is only so much time and money to spend/focus on mine development due to
life/expenses, but o well that's how it goes.
Ya pretty familiar with the mine process's as I have been doing it for awhile now, unfortunately had to be all self taught though as most the
experianced prospectors I know of are in their 70's and not really getting out and about much anymore.
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RogueRose
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I'm wondering if you couldn't use an arduino to program the timing, using a simple relay switch to send juice from a battery to the ematch.
IDK what MineMan meant about being harder to muck - is he talking about a battery or what? Cables/wire? I'd think a normal 20v powertool battery
should work fine and if any question, put 2 in series or just a boost converter to jump the voltage up to 35-60V.
You could also build a voltage multiplier with cap's and diodes and get a nice high voltage driven from a small 20V source. The nice thing about
these is you don't need high current to charge the caps, it can do it over a minute or so (even though it's probably only take a few seconds).
Last option are simple SPST switchs lined up in a row and running your finger over them quickly.
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morganbw
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In a younger life, I was actually a mucker.
Remove what was blasted. This is in context with the previous post but it could include other removal of spoil.
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MineMan
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I meant if you shoot all holes at the same time it won’t throw, it will key up, thus making mucking (a mining term for removing the blasted rock)
more difficult.
a1105, something you really might want to consider is renting an XRF for a day... I think the fee is only a couple hundred. You can pree grind your
samples, map your grades out and figure which samples are worth sending off for an assay.
For gold you can also do the stanus chlorine test.... it won’t give you a quantity, but will tell you if there is gold. I would do the fire assays
myself to
[Edited on 16-12-2018 by MineMan]
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