artemov
Hazard to Others
Posts: 181
Registered: 22-8-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
Making Ammonium Chloride
Trying to make some ammonium chloride using the following method ... just wondering if it's viable.
1) Baker's ammonia (ammonium carbonate or ammonium bicarbonate)
2) Stains remover (Ingredients: Hydrochloric Acid, Degreaser, Wetting Agent and Water)
Dissolve 1 in a small amount of water in a beaker.
Place it in a container with another beaker filled with 2.
Cover the container with cling wrap ... wait for a few days or weeks ...
|
|
|
fusso
International Hazard
Posts: 1922
Registered: 23-6-2017
Location: 4 ∥ universes ahead of you
Member Is Offline
|
|
Why you think it need days to complete? Acid base rxns are pretty fast and only need minutes if not hours.
|
|
|
Ubya
International Hazard
Posts: 1232
Registered: 23-11-2017
Location: Rome-Italy
Member Is Offline
Mood: I'm a maddo scientisto!!!
|
|
it is viable but if you don't calculate the mass of ammonium carbonate or the acid volume you wont get anything "pure", just a random mixture of
ammonium chloride and acid or ammonium carbonate
---------------------------------------------------------------------
feel free to correct my grammar, or any mistakes i make
---------------------------------------------------------------------
|
|
|
Sulaiman
International Hazard
Posts: 3555
Registered: 8-2-2015
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
Member Is Offline
|
|
I would expect ammonium chloride to be formed immediately,
but I guess that the high solubility of ammonium chloride will make it difficult to isolate.
EDIT: sorry, I was careless ...see below.
[Edited on 2-11-2018 by Sulaiman]
|
|
|
unionised
International Hazard
Posts: 5102
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I think some people have replied without reading the OP.
He never says to mix the materials.
I assume he's expecting evaporation to move one component to the other.
However, in solution, all the "ingredients" H2O, CO2, HCl and NH3 are volatile so it's not clear what would happen. Would the NH3 move to the acid, or
vice versa, or both?
If you add a slight excess of HCl to the ammonium carbonate, then let the water evaporate you will get ammonium chloride.
You can tten remove the impurities by recrystallisation or subliming it.
BTW, would someone please report the spam that's cluttering the forum. The automatic system will then clear it away (It does that if enough people
report it)
Don't write a reply, just click on the (most often read) post from a spammer, then click on report. Put the word "spam" in the box that pops up +
click on report.
It's really very satisfying when you do that and the spam goes away.
[Edited on 2-11-18 by unionised]
|
|
|
artemov
Hazard to Others
Posts: 181
Registered: 22-8-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
The stains remover is extremely impure ... so I din want to mix them together; I wouldn't know how to extract the ammonium chloride.
I was hoping the HCl will move over and dissolve in the ammonium carbonate solution and react with it ... I have read about this technique somewhere
here on making pure HCl, albeit less concentrated, from impure HCl.
H2O and CO2 I dun really care ... but I'm unaware NH3 will "come off" from ammonium carbonate, or does ammonium chloride gives off NH3?
I have no access to clean HCl yet unfortunately ...
[Edited on 2-11-2018 by artemov]
|
|
|
fusso
International Hazard
Posts: 1922
Registered: 23-6-2017
Location: 4 ∥ universes ahead of you
Member Is Offline
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by artemov  | The stains remover is extremely impure ... so I din want to mix them together; I wouldn't know how to extract the ammonium chloride.
I was hoping the HCl will move over and dissolve in the ammonium carbonate solution and react with it ... I have read about this technique somewhere
here on making pure HCl, albeit less concentrated, from impure HCl.
H2O and CO2 I dun really care ... but I'm unaware NH3 will "come off" from ammonium carbonate, or does ammonium chloride gives off NH3?
I have no access to clean HCl yet unfortunately ...
[Edited on 2-11-2018 by artemov] |
Not even plain NH4Cl?
(But spams are unlikely to go away even you reported them and thats extremely disappointing)
|
|
|
unionised
International Hazard
Posts: 5102
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Did you try?
You have to do it often enough that the system learns that your viewpoint is trustworthy.
|
|
|
fusso
International Hazard
Posts: 1922
Registered: 23-6-2017
Location: 4 ∥ universes ahead of you
Member Is Offline
|
|
Yes. But does
reporting a spam >1 time make it go away sooner?
|
|
|
artemov
Hazard to Others
Posts: 181
Registered: 22-8-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
Oh wait ... would sodium chloride and Baker's ammonia work too?
|
|
|
unionised
International Hazard
Posts: 5102
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
No, there's no way to get rid of the sodium ions.
|
|
|
artemov
Hazard to Others
Posts: 181
Registered: 22-8-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
Arghhhh ....
|
|
|
WGTR
National Hazard
Posts: 971
Registered: 29-9-2013
Location: Online
Member Is Offline
Mood: Outline
|
|
Ammonium chloride is reasonably volatile at elevated temperatures. You could try grinding dry ammonium sulfate (etc) together with sodium chloride,
and then try heating it in a beaker. A round bottom flask on top of the beaker, full of ice water, might work as a condenser. Just an idea.
|
|
|
MrHomeScientist
International Hazard
Posts: 1806
Registered: 24-10-2010
Location: Flerovium
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Good idea though, to eliminate contamination from your HCl source. The vapors should travel over and absorb into the less concentrated solution #1 to
form your desired product. Separating it from leftover carbonate sounds pretty straightforward, actually. Ammonium carbonate decomposes in hot water
(~60C) to ammonia and carbon dioxide, both of which are gases that will escape. You'd be left with a pure solution of ammonium chloride after the
bubbling stops.
For bonus points, you could lead the ammonia back into your container with your HCl source. It will react with the HCl vapor to form a smoke of more
ammonium chloride! Collecting that in any meaningful quantity might be difficult, though.
|
|
|
hissingnoise
International Hazard
Posts: 3940
Registered: 26-12-2002
Member Is Offline
Mood: Pulverulescent!
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by WGTR | | Ammonium chloride is reasonably volatile at elevated temperatures. You could try grinding dry ammonium sulfate (etc) together with sodium chloride,
and then try heating it in a beaker. A round bottom flask on top of the beaker, full of ice water, might work as a condenser. Just an idea.
|
Metathesis yes, I have prepared NH4Cl by heating mixtures of NaCl and NH4NO3.
I collected the sublimate on a large inverted funnel...but any suitable cold surface will suffice.
The other product was NaNO3.
|
|
|
artemov
Hazard to Others
Posts: 181
Registered: 22-8-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
Great ideas guys... inspired by WGTR, what about CaCl2 and (NH4)2SO4? CaSO4 would be insoluble in water.
[Edited on 2-11-2018 by artemov]
|
|
|
fusso
International Hazard
Posts: 1922
Registered: 23-6-2017
Location: 4 ∥ universes ahead of you
Member Is Offline
|
|
Is NH4Cl actually unavailable/banned in your country?
|
|
|
GrayGhost-
Hazard to Self
Posts: 61
Registered: 31-10-2017
Location: Argentina
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
1)
(NH4)2SO4 + 2 NaCl = 2 NH4Cl + Na2SO4 (freeze out the Na2SO4.10H2O)
2)(NH4)2SO4 + Ca(OH)2 = 2NH3 + 2H2O + CaSO4 you should bubling the ammonia in ClH solution.
3)(NH4)2SO4 + CaCl2 = 2NH4Cl + CaSO4. Calcium sulfate ( gypsum) precipitate.
|
|
|
GrayGhost-
Hazard to Self
Posts: 61
Registered: 31-10-2017
Location: Argentina
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I preparate Ammonium hydroxide from Ammonium bicarbonate + calcium hydroxide, but solution i very weak only 1% concentrate, I take density.
And voila in find in my bunch of salts Ammonium Chloride, then mix with Calcium hydroxide, warm and obtain ammonium hydroxide 7,7% according density.
In my country is controled substance.
|
|
|
artemov
Hazard to Others
Posts: 181
Registered: 22-8-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
Fusso, probably not banned or controlled like ammonium nitrate or GBL, but certainly not easily available to your average lay consumers. Most
chemicals are not easily available here, unless it has common or household usage, for example methanol or calcium chloride. The chemical companies
here won't sell to individuals, you can't just call and order CS2 or mercury nitrate.
|
|
|
beerwiz
Hazard to Others
Posts: 128
Registered: 6-2-2014
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
The EASIEST and BEST WAY to make Ammonium Chloride (I do this all the time):
Get a gallon of 10% ammonia from the hardware store, it costs less than $3
Get a gallon of muriatic acid (HCl) from the hardware store. It could be anywhere from 31%-35%.
Fill a large pot with the ammonia then slowly add the HCl, if you add it too fast the solution will heat up to a boil. The idea is to neutralize the
ammonia with the HCl, you can go down to pH 5 or so. Then you can evaporate the whole solution on your gas stove to dryness, stop when it is almost
dry so you don't burn it. Let it cool to room temperature and dry.
Voila, you have Ammonium Chloride in bulk.
|
|
|
artemov
Hazard to Others
Posts: 181
Registered: 22-8-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by beerwiz | The EASIEST and BEST WAY to make Ammonium Chloride (I do this all the time):
Get a gallon of muriatic acid (HCl) from the hardware store. It could be anywhere from 31%-35%.
|
Thanks, but no muriatic acid here. Only mosaic cleaner of unknown HCl concentration and lotsa additives.
[Edited on 14-11-2018 by artemov]
|
|
|
beerwiz
Hazard to Others
Posts: 128
Registered: 6-2-2014
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
If you can't buy muriatic acid where you are, then you can make HCl gas and gas your ammonia solution with it using a tube going into it. This will
make ammonium chloride after it's neutralized but it will remain in solution so just boil all the water off on your gas stove and you are done.
You can make HCl gas in many ways, some ways are:
1. Muriatic acid (can be impure like what you have) dripped over sulfuric acid.
2. Sulfuric acid dripped over table salt.
2. Table salt mixed with sodium bisulfate and heated.
4. Muriatic acid boiled. (you can boil your impure muratic acid solution, will work).
|
|
|
artemov
Hazard to Others
Posts: 181
Registered: 22-8-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
Thanks, but I think calcium chloride (dessicant) and ammonium sulphate (fertilizer) would the most practical route for me as I can get both here
easily. Sulphuric acid is out too ...
I can get ammonia cleaner (5%?) and sodium bisulphate (pool chemical) though ... cheers!
[Edited on 14-11-2018 by artemov]
|
|
|
ave369
Eastern European Lady of Mad Science
Posts: 596
Registered: 8-7-2015
Location: No Location
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
It is reasonably easy to make HCl by distilling a mix of table salt and fresh battery acid. Azeotropic 20% HCl will distill over. Mix this acid with
ammonia, then boil and crystallize. This is my standard method of making NH4Cl.
Smells like ammonia....
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
