almaslang
Harmless
Posts: 4
Registered: 18-3-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Recovery of Pb and NaOH from Sodium Plumbite
Hello There, anyone knows how to separate Pb from Na2PbO2... I was thinking maybe it is possible to extract Pb from Na2PbO2 and have a remaining
solution of NaOH... help please
|
|
|
WizardX
Hazard to Self
Posts: 61
Registered: 11-8-2005
Location: wizardx.4shared.com
Member Is Offline
Mood: wizardx.suddenlaunch3.com
|
|
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead%28II%29_oxide
PbO is amphoteric, which means that it reacts with both acids and with bases. With acids, it forms salts of Pb2+ via the intermediacy of oxo clusters
such as [Pb6O(OH)6]4+. With strong base, PbO dissolves to form plumbite(II) salts:[1] PbO + H2O + OH- → [Pb(OH)3]-
Na2PbO2ยท3H2O A toxic, corrosive solution of lead oxide (litharge) in sodium hydroxide; used (as doctor solution) to sweeten gasoline. The plumbite
ion is Pb(OH)3−, or similar.
There are plumbite compounds, for example, sodium plumbite, Na2PbO2.
Plumbite ion may be formed by adding strong base to plumbous hydroxide.
Plumbite ion is a weak reducing agent.
Therefore adding a strong (concentrated) acid to a Na2PbO2 solution will force lead oxide, PbO to precipitate when pH is neutral.
[Edited on 19-3-2008 by WizardX]
Albert Einstein - \"Great ideas often receive violent opposition from mediocre minds.\"
|
|
|
almaslang
Harmless
Posts: 4
Registered: 18-3-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Thanks, I'm also thinking of adding elemental sulfur to precipitate the Pb as PbS, but I doubt if the PbS precipitate will be stable as solid in that
solution. When added with acid, what will happen with the remaining solution? Is it possible to recover the NaOH?
I forgot to mention that I used NaOH to remove the PbO that adhered on some plastic tailings. Now I want to separate the NaOH and Pb from my resulting
solution which is Sodium Plumbite. So I could reuse the NaOH for another cycle of treatment
|
|
|
chemoleo
Biochemicus Energeticus
Posts: 3005
Registered: 23-7-2003
Location: England Germany
Member Is Offline
Mood: crystalline
|
|
You could convert the plumbite with HCl to PbCl2 and NaCl.
The PbCl2 dissolves badly in H2O, so you can filter it off (fine white crystals).
Then, dissolve the PbCl2 in NaOH, stoichiometric so as to generate Pb(OH)2 which again is insoluble. For this purpose the PbCl2 needs to be finely
powdered in the first place to ensure complete conversion. The Pb(OH)2 can be roasted on a flame to PbO (and carbonate). From this you can make any
Pb2+ compound. Do you seek to get metallic lead from Pb2+? Or just soluble, Na free Pb2+?
Alternatively you can use other acids than HCl. Such as HNO3, the lead salt of which is soluble. Precipitate the Pb(OH)2 with NaOH (stoichiometric) as
before.
Never Stop to Begin, and Never Begin to Stop...
Tolerance is good. But not with the intolerant! (Wilhelm Busch)
|
|
|
almaslang
Harmless
Posts: 4
Registered: 18-3-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I will be trying those reactions and do a cost estimate.
I just need a Na free Pb2+, and a nearly pure NaOH
|
|
|
WizardX
Hazard to Self
Posts: 61
Registered: 11-8-2005
Location: wizardx.4shared.com
Member Is Offline
Mood: wizardx.suddenlaunch3.com
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by almaslang
I will be trying those reactions and do a cost estimate.
I just need a Na free Pb2+, and a nearly pure NaOH |
Either this reaction 3 PbO + 2 NH3 ==> N2 + 3 H2O + 3 Pb when you precipitate PbO
OR
Electrolysis of plumbite ion is Pb(OH)3−
Albert Einstein - \"Great ideas often receive violent opposition from mediocre minds.\"
|
|
|
almaslang
Harmless
Posts: 4
Registered: 18-3-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by WizardX
| Quote: | Originally posted by almaslang
I will be trying those reactions and do a cost estimate.
I just need a Na free Pb2+, and a nearly pure NaOH |
Either this reaction 3 PbO + 2 NH3 ==> N2 + 3 H2O + 3 Pb when you precipitate PbO
OR
Electrolysis of plumbite ion is Pb(OH)3− |
How will Pb and NaOH separate thru electrolysis?
|
|
|
AJKOER
Radically Dubious
Posts: 3026
Registered: 7-5-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Are you sure about the reaction: 3 PbO + 2 NH3 ==> N2 + 3 H2O + 3 Pb
or is it possible: 3 PbO + 2 NH3 ==> Pb3N2 + 3 H2O
as an intermediate (or completely under certain conditions)?
That is, just Lead or Lead(II) Nitride!!? Both reactions are generic examples of the reaction of NH3 with metal oxides (MxO):
NH3 + MxO ==> H2O + M (or MN) + N (unless MN) + NO (unless N or MN formed)
There may, however, be a bang of a difference as the lead nitride is most likely unstable, possibly explosive?
|
|
|
AJKOER
Radically Dubious
Posts: 3026
Registered: 7-5-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Lead Nitride apparently does exists but per "Bretherick's Handbook of reactive chemical hazards", Pb3N2 is very unstable and explosively decomposes on
vacuum degassing.
To return on topic, to recover Pb and NaOH, a creative suggestion, do NOT use HCl use HClO2 (or HClO3 and reduce the product with H2O2).
Logic, adding HClO2 to Na2PbO2 will yield either NaClO or NaClO2. This supposition is based on the following reaction in my notes:
Cl2O + PbO = Cl2 + PbO2
And, as the Cl2O, Dichlorine Monoxide, is the anhydride of HClO, by using HClO2 instead, we are more likely to produce some sodium hypochlorite (or
chlorite) instead of the stable sodium chloride as implied by the above reaction.
Upon displacing into more unstable basic hypochlorites or chlorites (for example, Ag, Fe, Cu, Zn, NH4,..), one is more likely to recover NaOH more
easily than from a stable chloride.
Pb recovery proceeds as previously suggested.
Problem solved, perhaps.
CAUTION: Some of the hypochlorites listed can be extremely unstable (even explosive). Take appropriate precautions.
|
|
|
Fluorite
Hazard to Others
Posts: 132
Registered: 26-12-2018
Location: United Arab Emirates
Member Is Offline
|
|
Lead should behave similarly to zinc in sodium zincate solution and can be electrolysed to Zn and sodium hydroxide
Watch nurdrage zinc powder from zinc oxide video
|
|
|
Texium
Administrator
Posts: 4508
Registered: 11-1-2014
Location: Salt Lake City
Member Is Offline
Mood: PhD candidate!
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by Fluorite  | Lead should behave similarly to zinc in sodium zincate solution and can be electrolysed to Zn and sodium hydroxide
Watch nurdrage zinc powder from zinc oxide video |
This thread is literally ten years old
|
|
|
njl
National Hazard
Posts: 609
Registered: 26-11-2019
Location: under the sycamore tree
Member Is Offline
Mood: ambivalent
|
|
Fluorite loves 10 year olds I guess
|
|
|
zed
International Hazard
Posts: 2277
Registered: 6-9-2008
Location: Great State of Jefferson, City of Portland
Member Is Offline
Mood: Semi-repentant Sith Lord
|
|
We grow older, the questions are answered only gradually.
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
