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Author: Subject: The Chemical Closet
microcosmicus
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Mood: spin up

 Quote: Does this mean that I can beat the evil neighbor kids as long as I think that a good beating will do them good?

No, that is distorting the principle. As I understand it, the applicability
of mens rea in this case would be simply that your intent was to beat
the child whatever your reason for choosing to do so as opposed to,
say, a case where you were trying to swat a fly but whacked the kid
here between strict liability and mens rea --- the issue here is whether
one deliberately chose to do something, not why that person made
such a choice. Likewise, in the case of the license, what is relevant
is the intent to, say, purchase a car even though one did not have

The distinction between actual and attempted actions is important here.
Returning to your example of hitting the child, it is quite clear after the
fact that your intent in reaching for a paddle was to whack the kid.
By contrast, if the neighbor had whisked away the kid before you got
close to him, there would be plenty of room for reasonable doubt;
For instance, maybe you were going to use the paddle to mix some
cement, but the neighbor freaked out and thought you were going after his
child. In such a case where the action is not completed, more evidence
is required to establish the intended consequence of that action. Say that,
the day before, you had threatened to whack that no-account kid
of his upside the head so hard that he would see stars for the rest of
the week should he once more dare to turn on that noisy boombox of
his while you were trying to take a rest after a hard day's work, the
story would be different. In that case, your neighbor could quite
attempted assault which did not succeed only because he took
action to protect the welfare of the child.
0U812
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 Quote: Originally posted by crazyboy It is rather suspicous. why don't you post a pic of your red P?

I could post it but then you would call it chalk...what next, you want me to show you a video of it burning? How about I just give you my address so you can call the cops.

I could care less if you ordered from TCC. Im just saying that I ordered and got my stuff.
evil_lurker
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Quote:
Originally posted by 0U812
 Quote: Originally posted by crazyboy It is rather suspicous. why don't you post a pic of your red P?

I could post it but then you would call it chalk...what next, you want me to show you a video of it burning? How about I just give you my address so you can call the cops.

I could care less if you ordered from TCC. Im just saying that I ordered and got my stuff.

RP is rather distinguishable from any other compound. The closest thing that looks anywhere near RP is red iron oxide.

Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer.
MagicJigPipe
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I'm surprised you posted a picture. IMO that's pretty risky in itself.

"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think, free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
pantone159
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 Quote: Originally posted by 0U812 I could post it but then you would call it chalk

Yeah, a pic of the RP wouldn't be any more diagnostic than a picture of the can, *OBVIOUSLY* that can is only suitable for phosphorus.

 Quote: so you can call the cops.

You mean your immediate supervisor? I'll make sure to recommend that you get a good performance evaluation next time around.

[Edited on 6-4-2008 by pantone159]
anotheronebitesthedust
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The picture of the can looks a little too perfect (a little too staged). Just the way the can is sitting in the foamies. Who opens up a package and immediately takes a picture of their list 1 chemicals anyways? Wouldn't you have bigger concerns on your mind?
MagicJigPipe
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Yeah, that is interesting. I also like that it's just a regular printable sticker that you can just buy anywhere. Oh yeah, the barcode. It's almost as if it's trying to look professional.

Honestly, I have never had a chemical order that came with a barcode. I'm sure some of the big guys do it but do places the size of TCC usually do that?

[Edited on 7-4-2008 by MagicJigPipe]

"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think, free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
pantone159
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 Quote: Originally posted by anotheronebitesthedust The picture of the can looks a little too perfect (a little too staged). Just the way the can is sitting in the foamies. Who opens up a package and immediately takes a picture of their list 1 chemicals anyways? Wouldn't you have bigger concerns on your mind?

Also kind of interesting that the address on the box appears to be 'Glendale AZ 85301'. It is not all visible, so impossible to be sure that is exactly right, but that is indeed where TCC seems to be genuinely based.
MagicJigPipe
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Okay guys, this seals the deal for me. I just looked at their glassware selection for the first time. Let me just say this-- stereotypical meth glassware.

Erlenmeyers **smallest size 1000mL**
Smallest flask size is 250mL for OVER $100!!!!! WHAT A F**KING RIP OFF!! Not to mention they have a HUGE 12,000mL flask. I mean, how stereotypical is that??! And none of the larger flasks are actually pictured (like many of their chemicals). Plus, the "logo" for their glassware section is a 3-neck flask. IMO, only LE thinks that ONLY this type of glassware is used for making meth. I know this subject is beat to death but for some reason I still find it slightly interesting. Maybe it's because I don't like operations like this as they ALSO prey on unsuspecting hobbyists. "There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think, free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer joeflsts Hazard to Others Posts: 226 Registered: 14-1-2006 Member Is Offline Mood: No Mood  Quote: Originally posted by MagicJigPipe Okay guys, this seals the deal for me. I just looked at their glassware selection for the first time. Let me just say this-- stereotypical meth glassware. A lot of 3-neck flasks Mantels to fit the flasks Erlenmeyers **smallest size 1000mL** Smallest flask size is 250mL for OVER$100!!!!! WHAT A F**KING RIP OFF!! Not to mention they have a HUGE 12,000mL flask. I mean, how stereotypical is that??! And none of the larger flasks are actually pictured (like many of their chemicals). Plus, the "logo" for their glassware section is a 3-neck flask. IMO, only LE thinks that ONLY this type of glassware is used for making meth. I know this subject is beat to death but for some reason I still find it slightly interesting. Maybe it's because I don't like operations like this as they ALSO prey on unsuspecting hobbyists.

Agreed - I would never buy anything from this group. The pictures pushed me over the edge. I think this thread is dead and that TCC is a leo front.

Joe
joeflsts
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Quote:
Originally posted by evil_lurker
Quote:
Originally posted by 0U812
 Quote: Originally posted by crazyboy It is rather suspicous. why don't you post a pic of your red P?

I could post it but then you would call it chalk...what next, you want me to show you a video of it burning? How about I just give you my address so you can call the cops.

I could care less if you ordered from TCC. Im just saying that I ordered and got my stuff.

RP is rather distinguishable from any other compound. The closest thing that looks anywhere near RP is red iron oxide.

Not his.. his looks like chalk.

Joe
Sauron
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Looks like chalk?

That's the rare alabaster modification of P, chalky-white amorphous. It has the formula CaCO3.

Sic gorgeamus a los subjectatus nunc.
woelen

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No, it is not white, it is red/brown. Its formula is CaCO3++ or even CaCO3#

The art of wondering makes life worth living...
Want to wonder? Look at https://woelen.homescience.net
chemoleo
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Can anyone concisely tell me why this thread should remain open??

Never Stop to Begin, and Never Begin to Stop...
Tolerance is good. But not with the intolerant! (Wilhelm Busch)
MagicJigPipe
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The point of this thread (the determination of whether or not TCC is a LE operation) has not been completed 100%.

Also, it serves to continue discussion if TCC tries to seduce anyone else into buying from them.

I mean, why close it if it's not causing any trouble? I just don't see the point in that. I mean, yes the last two posts were slightly OT but other than that it seems to be okay.

Companies that attempt to prey on home chemists is an important issue to us.

"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think, free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
Sauron
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The thread ought to be closed because it is a train wreck. It has seen two members seriously insulted (joefista and MJP) for no good reason. Its raison d'etre is already accomplished. I do not know whether TCC is a scam or a sting, but it is one or the other. It is NOT a supplier for anyone in their right mind to do business with. That was established approximately on page 1. So why are we on page 7? It's like rubbernecking drivers at the scene of an accident. Move on!

Sic gorgeamus a los subjectatus nunc.
MagicJigPipe
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Hmmmmm... Perhaps us science nuts need some kind of "conspiracy theory" type stuff to keep our imagination switches in the "1" position.

I would still like to see it stay open as long as it doesn't get out of control. I don't know why but I would find it interesting to see "news" updates on what's going on with this site. Morbid curiosity? Probably, but I can't help it.

I mean, if anything else happens someone is likely to create a new topic. We certainly don't want a bunch of topics on one thing. So perhaps we should keep it if only for being organized and uncluttered. You know, have a place for everything.

EDIT
IIRC the kno3 thread was kind of heated but it just pops up from time to time causing no problems but at the same time keeping the possibility of updating the information/situation. I think this thread will do that, too. In time.

Sauron, page 7? My settings must be different from yours because I'm only on page 2! Interesting.

Mine is on 150 posts per page. Is that normal? I never have any loading issues (even with lots of large pictures) so I guess it doesn't matter.

[Edited on 4-10-2008 by MagicJigPipe]

"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think, free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
Sauron
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150 posts per page?

That would explain it.

Here's the short version of this thread:

"Wow! Red P for sale!"

"Wait. Didn't those folks in Scotland just get jacked up by the DEA for same thing? Might be a scam or a sting."

"Yeah, right. Better stay away." Nose pressed against shop window in cyberspace.

"Wow! Red P for sale!"

It's like watching moths dance around a flame. Or roaches debate about whether or not to check into that attractive roach motel. Or rodents sniffing at that nice bit of cheese on the plateful of sticky glue. Or (fill in your own trap metaphor).

Like, everyone now KNOWS it's too hot to handle, but, many just can't help but gaze and drool.

It's Pavlovian.

I'd love to have red P. But I can'T. So I for one am not a good candidate to be victimized by these folks, whoever they are.

Sic gorgeamus a los subjectatus nunc.
YT2095
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 Quote: Originally posted by MagicJigPipe Not to mention they have a HUGE 12,000mL flask. I mean, how stereotypical is that??! And none of the larger flasks are actually pictured (like many of their chemicals).

Oh I dunno, a 12L flask, I think I would buy something like that if I had the cash just for the Novelty value, and Im about as far removed from drugy stuff as you get.
I just like strange Lab Glassware, and the Older, Weirder, Rarer.. the better

\"In a world full of wonders mankind has managed to invent boredom\" - Death
Twinkies don\'t have a shelf life. They have a half-life! -Caine (a friend of mine)
pantone159
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 Quote: Originally posted by Sauron Here's the short version of this thread: "Wow! Red P for sale!" "Wait. Didn't those folks in Scotland just get jacked up by the DEA for same thing? Might be a scam or a sting." "Yeah, right. Better stay away." Nose pressed against shop window in cyberspace. "Wow! Red P for sale!"

There is more to this thread than that... A number of news articles related to busts (at least one mentioned TCC by name, and another probably involved them but no names) as well as some IP sleuthing and tracking of a package from them... Which does constitute an actual attempt to analyze what the truth behind TCC is, and not just (all) blabber. Plus their shill posted here, and deserves (IMO) to be called out for what he/she really is.

I don't care if this thread gets closed, but it should continue to exist (and be indexed by google etc. [which means no detritus?]) so it will be available for all who hear about TCC and decide to do their homework.
YT2095
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heres an interesting email I got today from some junky coward too afraid to post in here:

""you wouldn't know what to do with a 12000ml flask besides make a jack ass comment like that you dumbfuck! i could care a less about how it could be used for a meth lab but it sucks bad that if i did want one along with ANY chemical i dam want! but cause of people like you that have nothing better to do than to copy and paste some oneelses post you fucking reject! so boo fucking hoo let me guess your daddys a redneck dumbfuck cop and he said so! Wake up this country has gone to SHIT!!! Land of the Free ya FUCKING RIGHT! everything is illegal now! Making Meth WTF! your such a brainless DIPSHIT!!!! im done wasting my time on a WASTE of TIME!""

\"In a world full of wonders mankind has managed to invent boredom\" - Death
Twinkies don\'t have a shelf life. They have a half-life! -Caine (a friend of mine)
soxhlet
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“it sucks bad that if i did want one along with ANY chemical i dam want!”

Even worse is when one demonstrates such amazing intellect as to misspell “damn”. Is this a joke?
YT2095
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no joke!

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\"In a world full of wonders mankind has managed to invent boredom\" - Death
Twinkies don\'t have a shelf life. They have a half-life! -Caine (a friend of mine)
Sauron
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Sounds like a troll to me.

The only time DEA made a (fortunately brief) list of suspicious equipment, it wasn't 12 liter flasks they singled out as being commonly encountered in many clandestine labs they knocked over. It was 22 L flasks. But apparently they figured out that chasing glassware made no sense so they refocused on chemicals.

Sic gorgeamus a los subjectatus nunc.
MagicJigPipe
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Because we all know that you can only make meth in a 22L flask! Wow.... And these people are supposed to be "experts".

Damnit! I was trying to make some meth the other day and realized I only had an 18L flask! Arggggg... My plans to become rich selling meth and rule the world have been foiled! I would have gotten away with, too, it if it weren't for those meddling DEA agents!

(reference to Scooby Doo)

"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think, free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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 Sciencemadness Discussion Board » Fundamentals » Reagents and Apparatus Acquisition » The Chemical Closet Select A Forum Fundamentals   » Chemistry in General   » Organic Chemistry   » Reagents and Apparatus Acquisition   » Beginnings   » Responsible Practices   » Miscellaneous   » The Wiki Special topics   » Technochemistry   » Energetic Materials   » Biochemistry   » Radiochemistry   » Computational Models and Techniques   » Prepublication Non-chemistry   » Forum Matters   » Legal and Societal Issues   » Detritus   » Test Forum