Sciencemadness Discussion Board
Not logged in [Login ]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
Author: Subject: Nitromethane HE purity required
bigbigbeaker
Harmless
*




Posts: 12
Registered: 12-6-2008
Location: Ilkast, DE
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 13-6-2008 at 21:20
Nitromethane HE purity required


It seems that nitromethane is a very useful explosive with many applications: PLX, ANNM, Kinepac, etc. Is there a generally accepted purity level that is needed for NM to fuction like an explosive. I know its not like nitroglycerin in dynamite with an inert base where 30%, 50%, 70% NG in kieselghur works. Would 80% NM racing mix work if mixed with AN? What about 80% NM used for PLX? I have looked hard and haven't found an answer.
Any thoughts? Also has anyone had experience purifying NM with diethyl ether and powdered dry ice?
Does the presence of the usually encountered impurities like nitropropane have an impact on the exposive utility?
View user's profile View All Posts By User
enthalpy
Harmless
*




Posts: 6
Registered: 12-3-2008
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 14-6-2008 at 05:29


Its not smart to open a new thread with 1st post but anyway here are a few suggestions:
1. ANNM and Kinepac is the same IIRC

2. Im sure 80% NM (with 20% methanol and a little bit of ricinus oil, I think) works for AN based compositions but they may be a bit more insensitive. Strange, I thougt the NM based racing fuels contain 20-30% of NM and 70-80% MeOH.

3. liquid compositions like PLX are not nearly as sensitive as AN based ones. But with a big primary charge (few g of azide) they should also detonate with 80% NM.

4. It should be possible to dehydrate the NM with eg anhydrous CaCl2. It also could be distilled but I dont know if there is an azeotrope.

5. HE quality is new to me. Usually the quality in HEs isnt that high (in comparison with analytical grade etc). Other nitroparaffins like nitropropane should be the no problem for expl. purposes.

Be careful especially because this issue is very "practical" and so very illegal in most states.....
View user's profile View All Posts By User
MagicJigPipe
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1554
Registered: 19-9-2007
Location: USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: Suspicious

[*] posted on 14-6-2008 at 05:58


Wait, so now information is illegal in the US?



"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think, free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
View user's profile View All Posts By User This user has MSN Messenger
Axt
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 778
Registered: 28-1-2003
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 14-6-2008 at 06:07


72.2% NM
23.4% MeOH
4.4% Ethylenediamine

According to LLNL detonates at 5490m/s. I assume the composition was used to study shockwave propagation through a clear liquid. Where the methanol dilutant slowed it down, widened the reaction zone or other reasons related to the imaging.
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
Formatik
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 927
Registered: 25-3-2008
Member Is Offline

Mood: equilibrium

[*] posted on 14-6-2008 at 14:10


Mixtures of NMe with AN containing nearly the same part by mass of water as NMe are even detonable (see water-gel explosives, e.g. US Pat. 4008110 for composition, etc).
View user's profile View All Posts By User
grndpndr
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 508
Registered: 9-7-2006
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 14-6-2008 at 17:39


IIRC very high % NM hobby racing fuel has been limited to 55% by the friendly folks at the consumer products safety
commission.Just a few years back it was possible to buy the 99#+ NM Racing fuel from speed shps @$40/gall.Wanta hear how i dumped a 1/2 gall due to paranoia?LOL:o

[Edited on 14-6-2008 by grndpndr]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
grndpndr
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 508
Registered: 9-7-2006
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 18-3-2009 at 05:31


I did run into 80 %NM fuel additive that contained a plasticizer? a lubricant and possibly small amount of methanol but considering I quart to 10 gallons gasoline I cant see the addition of methanol.There was no MSD to reference .By mail from manufacturer as the msd was availabale by mail from the manufacturer .NM and the upper cylinder lube shouldnt pose a problem its the plasticizer that may be problematic.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
User
National Hazard
****




Posts: 339
Registered: 7-11-2008
Location: Earth
Member Is Offline

Mood: Passionate

[*] posted on 20-3-2009 at 01:45


If course it would be possible to fraction destil the nitromethane( under reduced pressure ?).
Where the methanol would be boiling over below 65 degrees and the NM under 100 degr.
Does anyone know about azeotrope forming between methanol/NM ?
My guess is that it would not be very dangerous when using a water bath considering the flashpoint / self ignition point is by far not reached.
Correct me if iam wrong.

PS Are we talking about purity or concentration which is a quite different thing.





[Edited on 20-3-2009 by User]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
grndpndr
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 508
Registered: 9-7-2006
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 20-3-2009 at 19:08


It would seem to me purity and concentration are very much related.Distillation of nitromethane isnt something
Im eager to try,particularly not knowing what the additives contain.If you do distill nitromethane let me know how it goes.Regards

[Edited on 20-3-2009 by grndpndr]

[Edited on 20-3-2009 by grndpndr]




Democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government.It can only exist until the voters discover(and become comfortable with the idea) they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury...w/the result
democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy,always followed by a dictatorship..(since it seems part of the socialism bargain involves a loss of civil rights chiefly1A-2A and thus the ability to resist)"they neglect thier chief burden which is to remain thier own masters." Alex de Tocqueville
View user's profile View All Posts By User
vulture
Forum Gatekeeper
*****




Posts: 3330
Registered: 25-5-2002
Location: France
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 21-3-2009 at 16:52


Getting out the plasticizers might work by hydrolyzing them with dilute acid (not base), converting them to the respective acids and alcohols.



One shouldn't accept or resort to the mutilation of science to appease the mentally impaired.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
grndpndr
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 508
Registered: 9-7-2006
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 23-3-2009 at 06:36


Thanks,Ill do some searching and see if thats wiithin my limited capabilitys as well as mail for the MSD to learn exactly whats contained in the remaining 20%.Regards,thanks again.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
DNA
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 191
Registered: 11-6-2003
Location: @moon
Member Is Offline

Mood: Experimenting

[*] posted on 26-3-2009 at 01:13


Concerning the plx it is actually not that insensitive...
I've done quite a lot of experiments concerning this explosive, and it appears if you leave the plx (nitromethane and ethylenediamine) together for 12 hours, then it is really easy to detonate.
After 2 hours it is really hard to detonate.
View user's profile View All Posts By User This user has MSN Messenger
zed
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2273
Registered: 6-9-2008
Location: Great State of Jefferson, City of Portland
Member Is Offline

Mood: Semi-repentant Sith Lord

[*] posted on 25-5-2009 at 20:48


Nitromethane? Easy to make, and at a much higher purity than most commercially available products.

I believe, "Organic Synthesis" provides a straight forward procedure, on their web-site.
View user's profile View All Posts By User

  Go To Top