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Author: Subject: home made rocket fuel.
Zeig
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[*] posted on 13-12-2008 at 20:37
home made rocket fuel.


so, i want to make a homemade rocket engine but chemicals are hard for me to come by.

im thinking of a sugar rocket but is there anythign i can add to the mixture to make it stronger?

thanks!
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Mr. Wizard
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[*] posted on 13-12-2008 at 22:58


You don't need anything stronger until you can handle the sugar rocket, which is strong enough to launch anything you want. When you have mastered the sugar rockets 'grasshopper' , you will know the answer.

Levity aside, the sugar( or it's variants)+KNO3 mix, is a wide field to explore, and in itself presents dangers and hazards. Making a rocket isn't about making stronger mixtures, it's about getting your fuel to burn at a high enough pressure to provide thrust, but not high enough to blow up. It's a balancing act.

Your question is like a guy who climbs behind the steering wheel for the first time and wants to know if he can have a more powerful engine.

Yes, the chemicals are hard to get. I'm not going to spoon feed you. You will have to use the search engine, both in this site and on the net overall. You might even be forced to learn some chemistry and actually learn how it was made. That's how I learned. Learning the whole sequence is part of the fun.

Have fun, and remember we all just get two eyes and ten fingers; make them last the duration of the game. Loud noises and electric sparks have been the lure to many a scientist.

An interesting link added in edit:
http://makezine.com/images/07/strangelove.pdf

[Edited on by Mr. Wizard]
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Zeig
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[*] posted on 13-12-2008 at 23:39


hay thanks lol.
i know how the chemistry behind it works for the most part. im in IB (AP) chem. so ya. but it never hurts to learn more. thanks for the link.
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vulture
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[*] posted on 14-12-2008 at 01:55


Quote:

i know how the chemistry behind it works for the most part. im in IB (AP) chem.


If that's some advanced high school course, then no, you don't. I also hope you will take more care in making your rocket fuel than you do of your spelling and grammar.




One shouldn't accept or resort to the mutilation of science to appease the mentally impaired.
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hissingnoise
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[*] posted on 14-12-2008 at 06:29


I intend (someday) trying sucrose octonitrate as a rocket propellant.
A mixture of this nitrate and AN (to balance OB) should be quite powerful and less polluting than AP propellants.
According to Davis, recrystallised SO is reasonably stable, fairly shock-insensitive and it deflagrates with violence.
Experience with this particular compound, anyone?
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Swany
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[*] posted on 14-12-2008 at 10:17


Quote:
Originally posted by hissingnoise
I intend (someday) trying sucrose octonitrate as a rocket propellant.
A mixture of this nitrate and AN (to balance OB) should be quite powerful and less polluting than AP propellants.
According to Davis, recrystallised SO is reasonably stable, fairly shock-insensitive and it deflagrates with violence.
Experience with this particular compound, anyone?


It seems that under the pressure of a rocket casing it could maybe DDT? I'm sure you've thought of this, but, consider sugar rockets. The propellant is fairly sane when it is not in a casing, but in a casing... Perhaps in your case, the AN would desensitize nitrosucrose, though, a more accurate description may be the nitrosucrose will sensitize the AN. How large of motors are you considering? I agree that it would be an incredibly ballsy propellant.
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crazyboy
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[*] posted on 14-12-2008 at 10:28


I attempted to make sucrose octanitrate and it was the biggest pain in the ass. The SO was sticky and semisolid it was very difficult to scrape off the beaker and yields weren't that great. If you plan to do it I suggest you keep it very cold. There are way better rocket propellants my favorite being whistle mix.



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hissingnoise
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[*] posted on 14-12-2008 at 11:46


Swany, because of the DDT uncertainty the motors will be small (and nozzleless) to start.
Because of the tedium of HNO3 distillation they'll probably stay fairly small, but who knows. . .
Crazyboy, the difficulties you pointed out might influence things, too.
BTW, what did you use it for, and how did it go?
Oh, and were you able to decant the mixed acid for re-use.
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Swany
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[*] posted on 14-12-2008 at 22:56


To the OP: rocket candy fuel variants are a powerful and versatile set of propellants. When you are bored with the standard sugar/nitrate melts, add a percentage of Fe2O3. The unconfined burn rate will double-- a very different fuel... perhaps closer to what you originally had in mind. You really can't go wrong with the rocket candy mixes; they produce a high volume of gas, don't have the burning temps that metals do, are dirt cheap, and can be make loopy by adding rust. Whats not to love? (The hygoscopicness)
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hissingnoise
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[*] posted on 15-12-2008 at 04:32


Well, yes, that and the reduced ISP.
I've toyed with the idea of a nitroglycol/NC gel but here, too, DDT would be a real concern.
It would, though, be less likely to DDT than the ngl equivalent.
And the ISP should be very high. . .
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[*] posted on 27-1-2009 at 16:57


I've been playing around with Rocket candy for a while now, and i've tried a couple of catalysts for improved burn time. I have recently, however, been wondering if an excess of sucrose could be introduced at the beginning (using the recrystalisation from solution method) and subsequently, at the end, while it is semi solid and cooling, introduce a small amount of KMnO4 to balance out the excess.

My problem is this, is there a reasonable chance that, at the 60-70 C range, could the addition of the KMnO4 cause spontaeneous ignition?

Sorry if this is an obvious question, but, being in high school, I am not going to pretend I know that chemistry behind this.
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PHILOU Zrealone
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[*] posted on 28-1-2009 at 08:28


Assuming what happens to 1,2,3-propantriol (glycerin) when admixed with KMnO4; there is a big chance your mix of suggar will react exothermically with it...

Glycerine en KMnO4 burst into flame after a while depending on the speed of migration of the MnO4(-) into the viscous glycerin --> Temperature dependant...self heating occuring from the exotherm speeds this up into runnaway and flame...

Now if you play with suggar saturated solutions in water at 60°C, maybe the water present in it will temper the reaction and only produce bubbles and MnO2...

Maybe check first if MnO2 is of use as a catalyst, MnO2 can be found in some batteries...




PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)

"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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SNL
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[*] posted on 28-1-2009 at 13:22


Thank you. I will check if MnO2 works as a catalyst, and will will try this with very small samples. I will follow up this post to confirm the results.
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symboom
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[*] posted on 2-2-2021 at 01:12


Sugar rocket using sorbitol instead of sucrose
It makes an easier to cast solid rocket motor

https://youtu.be/nPM3KcHzN6I




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[*] posted on 2-2-2021 at 01:52


Potassium Nitrate and Sorbitol is not bad.

http://www.nakka-rocketry.net/
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[*] posted on 2-2-2021 at 04:30


Do you want something more interesting? If you can obtain perchlorates, try KClO4 or NH4ClO4 based fuels. or ammonium picrate 45% plus NaNO3 45% plus some bind like epoxy.



Women are more perilous sometimes, than any hi explosive.
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foreign maple
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[*] posted on 2-2-2021 at 07:49


if your dedicated and are willing to shell out a lot of money, you can extract NH4ClO4 from sparklers. it is not efficient at all though. also you can react NH4NO3 with KCl in a double displacement to form your KNO3.
also oxidizers are definitely a big deal when it comes to rocketry, but test out different high density high energy fuels.
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Alkoholvergiftung
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[*] posted on 2-2-2021 at 09:16


https://hackaday.io/project/5743-green-eutectic-rocket-prope...
Sorbitol alternativ mix
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Pyro_cat
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[*] posted on 2-2-2021 at 19:48


Mixed sugar with the potassium chlorate made from bleach. Looked like it burned similar to KN03 sugar rocket fuel but I read its more difficult to not blow up the rocket with this mix.
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B(a)P
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[*] posted on 2-2-2021 at 21:06


Quote: Originally posted by Pyro_cat  
Mixed sugar with the potassium chlorate made from bleach. Looked like it burned similar to KN03 sugar rocket fuel but I read its more difficult to not blow up the rocket with this mix.


Sucrose/potassium chlorate mixes have a low autoignition temperature, about that of the melting point of sucrose, so it is certainly not suitable for melt casting. It is also a somewhat impact sensitive mix.
Sucrose/potassium chlorate is best to be avoided in rocketry for these reasons, chlorate in general doesn't really have any application in rocketry because of its instability.
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Laboratory of Liptakov
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[*] posted on 3-2-2021 at 00:12


Attempts to produce a rocket engine with KCLO3 end in 80% explosion. This is my experience.



Safety explosive Alfred Nobel 1867. Safety ecologic detonator Dr. Liptakov 2015, inventor of CHP
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MineMan
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[*] posted on 3-2-2021 at 12:17


Yeah don’t use kclo3 for rocket fuel.
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Nitrosio
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[*] posted on 4-2-2021 at 02:40


KClO3 + 30-40% Binder (Epoxide, PUR, PE, PET, Asphalt, Wax etc.)
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xxxhibition
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[*] posted on 4-2-2021 at 10:50


Watch this
:cool:
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B(a)P
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[*] posted on 4-2-2021 at 11:53


Quote: Originally posted by Nitrosio  
KClO3 + 30-40% Binder (Epoxide, PUR, PE, PET, Asphalt, Wax etc.)


Interesting, does having the chlorate in a binder/fuel make it less prone to explosive failure? Do you have any more detail, have you tried any of these or do you have references for them?
I had a search and wax doesn't seem to work, I concede that this is a crude test. Chlorate and wax
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